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Hello everyone.

I'm currently managing Leeds United, and i have som issues with my tactic.
I want to play an attacking direct style of football, with gegenpressing, like Liverpool irl. Defensively the tactic is working very well, and i actually have 5 clean sheets in a row, i'm winning most matches, and have the best defence in the league. But i'm having problems scoring goals, and the goals i'm scoring, are not the way i intended with the tactic, for example a lot of my goals come from corners or free kicks. I can't help feeling it's a bit lucky, and that soon it would turn around.
Could use some advice how to change some things to create more big chances and get my offensive players to score more goals. My front-3 have only scored 1 of my goals in the first 8 league matches, even though i have a lot of shoots every game.

Here you see my last game against Derby for example, and most of the other games look like this too:

705025562_Skrmbillede2020-03-24kl_17_18_03.thumb.png.80931c5ce36aa85f0ff9993405a30a6a.png

 

Here you see my results:

1010338512_Skrmbillede2020-03-24kl_17_18_25.thumb.png.3d1dce158f0601d54d50a14fbed1400a.png

 

And here is my tactic:

319605881_Skrmbillede2020-03-24kl_17_18_10.thumb.png.431601aad0caf4d0a35b2993bac8df01.png

The TI's 'pass into space' and 'play wider' are occasional, and i use them against specific opponents. 
I have the PI's 'close down more' to my front-3 and my CM(A) to take more risks.


Any advise how to make small changes that will make me more dangerous in front of goal? Actually my CM(A) is my topscorer with 3 goals, and Dallas is creating most of my chances.

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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Hi, I wouldn't change too much, you're 2nd and you're results are good.

One thing is that you have 'pass into space' selected. But you also press very high up the field with a high defensive line. So when you win the ball back, no-one has any space to run into. 

My solution would be either to remove pass into space, or reduce your line of engagement and defensive line - especially against weaker teams. 

You play higher tempo and have only one player in the striker/central attacking mid positions, so maybe you do not create enough proper chances. It perhaps may be more useful to lower the tempo to allow your CMs and FBs to catch up to play, so then your players have more options with the ball, maybe enabling a clearer chance to be created. 

You have deep runners with CMa and FBa, so a lower tempo makes more sense in my opinion. 

Edited by maxchaplin55

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11 minutes ago, maxchaplin55 said:

Hi, I wouldn't change too much, you're 2nd and you're results are good.

One thing is that you have 'pass into space' selected. But you also press very high up the field with a high defensive line. So when you win the ball back, no-one has any space to run into. 

My solution would be either to remove pass into space, or reduce your line of engagement and defensive line - especially against weaker teams. 

You play higher tempo and have only one player in the striker/central attacking mid positions, so maybe you do not create enough proper chances. It perhaps may be more useful to lower the tempo to allow your CMs and FBs to catch up to play, so then your players have more options with the ball, maybe enabling a clearer chance to be created. 

I only use the ''pass into space'' against opponents with a high defensive line.

I think you are right about not creating big enough chances. I have a lot of shots every game, but most is either blocked or misses goal from a difficult distance. Maybe i should try to lower the tempo a little! Thanks for the advice.

 

Furthermore, i have like 10-12 corners at least EVERY GAME, because my wingers and fullbacks gets blocked all the time they try to cross the ball.. 

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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My goals the last 5 matches:
 

2-0 vs Stoke: 
Long shot and own goal.

2-0 vs Blackburn:
Corner kick and a cross to my inside forward.

0-0 vs Swansea

1-0 vs Barnsley:
Long shot

1-0 vs Derby:
Penalty (Which came from a corner)

 

So it's not the good goals from open play i'm scoring.

 

Edit: Just played 2 more games, same result:
2-0 vs Bristol City:
Long shot and direct free kick


3-0 vs Charlton:
Long shot, header from free kick and penalty kick.


Im very satisfied with the results, but concerned about that i score no goals in open play except long shots

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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6 hours ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

Hello everyone.

I'm currently managing Leeds United, and i have som issues with my tactic.
I want to play an attacking direct style of football, with gegenpressing, like Liverpool irl. Defensively the tactic is working very well, and i actually have 5 clean sheets in a row, i'm winning most matches, and have the best defence in the league. But i'm having problems scoring goals, and the goals i'm scoring, are not the way i intended with the tactic, for example a lot of my goals come from corners or free kicks. I can't help feeling it's a bit lucky, and that soon it would turn around.
Could use some advice how to change some things to create more big chances and get my offensive players to score more goals. My front-3 have only scored 1 of my goals in the first 8 league matches, even though i have a lot of shoots every game.

Here you see my last game against Derby for example, and most of the other games look like this too:

705025562_Skrmbillede2020-03-24kl_17_18_03.thumb.png.80931c5ce36aa85f0ff9993405a30a6a.png

 

Here you see my results:

1010338512_Skrmbillede2020-03-24kl_17_18_25.thumb.png.3d1dce158f0601d54d50a14fbed1400a.png

 

And here is my tactic:

319605881_Skrmbillede2020-03-24kl_17_18_10.thumb.png.431601aad0caf4d0a35b2993bac8df01.png

The TI's 'pass into space' and 'play wider' are occasional, and i use them against specific opponents. 
I have the PI's 'close down more' to my front-3 and my CM(A) to take more risks.


Any advise how to make small changes that will make me more dangerous in front of goal? Actually my CM(A) is my topscorer with 3 goals, and Dallas is creating most of my chances.

I see that you are 2nd on the table even though your tactic is not optimally balanced and is also pretty much demanding, especially for a championship team. And your results look very good - you lost only 1 match, drew also 1 and won in all other 6 matches - and here I am speaking solely about league games. So you are doing very well in terms of results

I can tell you what I personally would change in your tactic if you insist, but I am not sure it's a good idea as long as you are getting results. Because the tactic obviously works, despite some structural flaws.

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I see that you are 2nd on the table even though your tactic is not optimally balanced and is also pretty much demanding, especially for a championship team. And your results look very good - you lost only 1 match, drew also 1 and won in all other 6 matches - and here I am speaking solely about league games. So you are doing very well in terms of results

I can tell you what I personally would change in your tactic if you insist, but I am not sure it's a good idea as long as you are getting results. Because the tactic obviously works, despite some structural flaws.

It would be nice if you could tell me what you would change! I have now played 2 more games, both ended 1-1. As i feared, the moment i started conceding goals, i didn't score enough to win. In both games i scored the same goals as before - 1 from corner and one long shot from my right back.. So i could use some help to create more big chances in my offense and get my front-3 working.

If you want, i can post some of my players stats, that you find relevant?

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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Things aren't going badly for you so i'd just try to refine it and i'd do that by:

  • Remove Pass Into Space.  This is literally telling every player to try risky passes often.  The CD-De i'm not 100% on but everyone else has the risky passes often PI available hence the TI will give them it.  Is that what you actually want? Are all your players that good at passing that its not just going to give the ball away cheaply?
  • Your attack duties are quite top heavy, good for a fast attacking system so i'm not sure why you have Work Ball Into Box.  I imagine this as being like saying "you guys make early runs in behind, you guys play them through, but then be more patient and don't cross (except Winger and FB-At) or shoot...  but then your movement patterns don't create space to work the ball around the box.
  • I recommend watching @Rashidi(bustthenet) latest video on passing traps, it might give you defensive pressing ideas that fit your offensive plan.  A high block + vertical style is hard to do well, if the high press doesn't cause mistakes you can end up just pinning in opponents which requires a different offensive style to create space in.

 

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52 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

Things aren't going badly for you so i'd just try to refine it and i'd do that by:

  • Remove Pass Into Space.  This is literally telling every player to try risky passes often.  The CD-De i'm not 100% on but everyone else has the risky passes often PI available hence the TI will give them it.  Is that what you actually want? Are all your players that good at passing that its not just going to give the ball away cheaply?
  • Your attack duties are quite top heavy, good for a fast attacking system so i'm not sure why you have Work Ball Into Box.  I imagine this as being like saying "you guys make early runs in behind, you guys play them through, but then be more patient and don't cross (except Winger and FB-At) or shoot...  but then your movement patterns don't create space to work the ball around the box.
  • I recommend watching @Rashidi(bustthenet) latest video on passing traps, it might give you defensive pressing ideas that fit your offensive plan.  A high block + vertical style is hard to do well, if the high press doesn't cause mistakes you can end up just pinning in opponents which requires a different offensive style to create space in.

 

I usually don't use 'pass into space'. It's only against teams with a high defensive line, but mostly i don't use it.
The reason i have 'Work ball into box' is, that i don't want my players to try long shots too often, my intention is to create big chances in the box. In the beginning i hadn't the instruction, my striker would often get the ball from my midfielders, turn around and shoot. I'll admit that i wasn't too patient before i added the ''work ball into box'' TI, so maybe i should try again without it.

Thank you for the video link, i will definitely watch it!

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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I'd recommend against trying this all at once, but here are a few things you could try:

  • Changing the mentality from Balanced to Positive. This would encourage your team to move the ball quicker and take more risks. Forwards love receiving the ball as early as possible, no matter the roles/duties they have.
  • Having only one of Distribute to Centre Backs or Distribute to Full Backs. With both of them + Play Out of Defence, your whole backline and midfield three are going to be in your half during goal kicks. While this gives you plenty of support during the build-up phase, the ball will spend a long time circulating in your half before it reaches your frontline. By that point, the opposition will have settled into their shape.
  • Remove Work Ball Into Box. The trade-off for reducing long-shots is slower play in the final third + increased risk of being countered (any loose pass in this scenario is dangerous since your players will be bunched up on the edge of the opponent's area). Unless you have a team with great passing and composure (relative to your level), I'd recommend leaving it off, and only using it if your side is taking too many long shots. 
  • Changing the DLF(A) to a PF(A). The Pressing Forward will still offer himself as a passing option but attacks the box more aggressively than the Deep-Lying Forward. 
  • Alternatively, swap out the Winger for an Inverted Winger and change the IF(S) to an IF(A). You need players attacking the box if want to score goals besides long shots and set-pieces.
  • Other useful instructions: Run At Defence, to encourage dribbling if the passing game isn't working; Hit Early Crosses, to get in behind deep defensive blocks before they have a chance to settle; and Be More Expressive, if nothing else is working and you need a boost in creativity. 

 

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15 hours ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

It would be nice if you could tell me what you would change!

In terms of roles and duties, I would - as always - first look to create a better overall balance, which not only improves defensive stability but is also helpful attacking-wise. More specifically, this means changing the right CM from the AP into a more holding or covering type of role. In this particular case, it would logically be the DLP, so that you could still have a designated playmaker in your system (as I assume you want to use a playmaker as such). 

The rest of roles/duties looks okay, although the DM might be switched to the defend duty, especially as you have both the CM and wide forward on attack duties on the left.

So after these couple of tweaks, the setup would look like this:

DLFat

Wat                                      IFsu

CMat    DLPsu

DMde

FBsu     CDde    BPDde     FBat

GK/SK??

Of course, it's always important to make sure not only that the mere setup of roles and duties is balanced and sensible, but also that all roles are played by suitable players.

QUESTION: Did you set your goalkeeper as a standard GK because he lacks proper attributes for a sweeper-keeper, or for some other reason?

Instructions-wise, I would not use pass into space all the time but rather situationally (as an in-match tweak).

Work ball into box is another instruction I would not insist on as a regular part of the tactic. It requires your players to be good enough - both technically and tactically/mentally - to be able to keep the ball confidently in tight areas of space under pressure. Otherwise it can be risky and potentially lead to dangerous counter-attacks by opposition if you lose the ball at an inopportune moment. 

Both higher tempo and wide(r) attacking width are also instructions that can be used on a situational basis. Higher tempo would make more sense if the tactic was counter-attacking, but that would also require lowering the LOE and a slightly different setup of roles, duties and certain instructions.

Given that you already have the Play out of defence turned on, I would remove the distribution to CBs and FBs. Both at the same time can be a bit of overkill. If you want to play out of defence, you should let the keeper make his own decision regarding distribution of the ball. Alternatively - and that could actually be a better idea - you can retain the distribution to CBs and FBs but remove the Play out of defence. 

When it comes to your defensive instructions, it's difficult to offer any definite advice. If you don't have any major defensive issues and are happy how your team defends, then you probably don't need to make changes in this particular section of your tactic. But if your team often looks too exposed defensively, then you should pay attention to instructions such as counter-press and much higher DL and probably tone them down. 

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I appreciate your advises @JEinchy and @Experienced Defender!!

 

I have tried removing the ''work ball into box'' TI for the last few matches, and removed the ''Distribute to CB and FB. But i can't see a significant change - they still don't create enough big chances... Without the ''Work ball into box'' TI, its hard to create chances, because my midfield don't arrive in dangerous positions before my front-3 has lost the ball or failed a dribble or cross. Or else my striker tries the long shot. 
I must try to experiment with some of the TI's to hopefully create more big chances.


@Experienced Defender When i try the DLP instead of an AP, i think he is too static, and then i only have 4 players threatening in the box or just outside - my front-3 and CM(A)...
Do you think i should change the roles in my front-3? I think one of my problems in creating chances and scoring goals is, that my striker almost never gets chances. He has 2 goals in 15 matches - and the both came in the same match. How can i make him more dangerous - change his role? change the roles of my wingers?
In which situations do you think i should use higher tempo? And play wider?

@JEinchy All my wingers are left-footed, so i can't really play the Inverted winger on the left side. Would it work to make the IF(S) to attacking duty and my winger attack to winger support in creating chances? But it's also a risk, because my fullback in that side is attack already. Does it become too offensive and unbalanced on that side then?

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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I'm still not losing, but still can't score goals aside from set pieces and long shots:( And therefore when i can't make the clean sheet, i usually don't win.

Skærmbillede 2020-03-25 kl. 21.52.24.png

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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3 hours ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

@Experienced Defender When i try the DLP instead of an AP, i think he is too static, and then i only have 4 players threatening in the box or just outside - my front-3 and CM(A)...
Do you think i should change the roles in my front-3? I think one of my problems in creating chances and scoring goals is, that my striker almost never gets chances. He has 2 goals in 15 matches - and the both came in the same match. How can i make him more dangerous - change his role? change the roles of my wingers?
In which situations do you think i should use higher tempo? And play wider?

Post a screenshot of the tactic you are using at the moment, so that I could see what exactly it looks like after the tweaks you made in the meantime. In case the tactic itself turns out to be okay, then either your player selection relative to the roles is wrong or your players are simply not good enough to play the style of football you are trying to implement. I can only tell you if there is anything problematic in the tactic as such, but I cannot know if it suits your team. Both factors matter.

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4 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Post a screenshot of the tactic you are using at the moment, so that I could see what exactly it looks like after the tweaks you made in the meantime. In case the tactic itself turns out to be okay, then either your player selection relative to the roles is wrong or your players are simply not good enough to play the style of football you are trying to implement. I can only tell you if there is anything problematic in the tactic as such, but I cannot know if it suits your team. Both factors matter.


Here is my tactic now

645979729_Skrmbillede2020-03-25kl_22_46_49.thumb.png.c5192439943ce6126cbad7edfa06687d.png

 

 

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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9 minutes ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

645979729_Skrmbillede2020-03-25kl_22_46_49.thumb.png.c5192439943ce6126cbad7edfa06687d.png

Okay. Assuming all your players are suitable for their respective roles attributes-wise, these are some more tweaks you may consider:

- drop both DL and LOE by just one notch (DL to higher and LOE to standard) in order to create more space for your forwards

- remove the Play out from defence and add Distribute to CBs and FBs instead 

- change passing to shorter (to offset the removal of the PoD and also allow more players from deep to arrive in support of your forwards in the final third)

- remove the Counter TI in order to avoid losing possession needlessly (players will attempt counter-attacks even without the instruction, they'll just be a bit more mindful)

- employ the soft version of split block (tell the striker and CM on attack to close down more in their player instructions)

Watch the match carefully and report back what you observed and whether there is an improvement or not.

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10 hours ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

The reason i have 'Work ball into box' is, that i don't want my players to try long shots too often, my intention is to create big chances in the box. In the beginning i hadn't the instruction, my striker would often get the ball from my midfielders, turn around and shoot. I'll admit that i wasn't too patient before i added the ''work ball into box'' TI, so maybe i should try again without it.

In your setup I don't think Work Ball Into Box will help you though or reduce long shots that much.  All of your movement is forward and once teams are pushed deep its easy for them to defend.  I bet when you watch attacks in the final third it all looks a bit static as the high runners have no space to run into like they're told to try often.  Bit like in real life when watching and you see all the players just standing around and there's no movement.  Your relying on a player doing something opposite of there instruction to come deep or someone to do something special probably the IF-Su.

You talk about making better chances, but how do you envision doing that?  Your roles and duties are setup to attack quickly with high runners which needs space.  But then you don't want them shooting whilst they have the chance, you'd rather they wait for support? Well you've not given them roles and duties that do that!  I think your falling into the "have your cake and eat it" trap, wanting fast exciting attacks but also want patience and possession and not getting what you want.  If you want the fast exciting attacking style your roles & duties suggest you need to address the out of possession instructions, create traps and don't just press high all the time and pin opponents in.  Especially when you don't have a Firmino type of forward who drops and enables more fluid movement.  If you want a more patient style i'd look at your forward roles and ask them to be attacking so they play those possession passes more.

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50 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay. Assuming all your players are suitable for their respective roles attributes-wise, these are some more tweaks you may consider:

- drop both DL and LOE by just one notch (DL to higher and LOE to standard) in order to create more space for your forwards

- remove the Play out from defence and add Distribute to CBs and FBs instead 

- change passing to shorter (to offset the removal of the PoD and also allow more players from deep to arrive in support of your forwards in the final third)

- remove the Counter TI in order to avoid losing possession needlessly (players will attempt counter-attacks even without the instruction, they'll just be a bit more mindful)

- employ the soft version of split block (tell the striker and CM on attack to close down more in their player instructions)

Watch the match carefully and report back what you observed and whether there is an improvement or not.


Okay... I just played a match, where i used all these changes you recommended and watched the entire game - I played Reading (15th in the league) away.
My defense was very solid as it has been the entire season, and Reading didn't create much - only one big chance in the game. My team also played well on my own half, where my defenders and defensive midfielder did good playing out of Readings initial press. But in the final third it looked a bit like in the other games - although a little better. I had a lot of possession (64%), but had a hard time opening their defence. It often ended with a blocked cross from my wingers, a corner kick or Reading managed to win the ball. One time in the match my left back dribbled his opponent and crossed to my inside forward who scored, which was really good, but i would like it to happen more in a game. I ended up winning 2-0, the second goal from a corner in 90th minute. I created some other chances later in the game, but not 'clear chances'
All in all, i see small improvements, but still having a very hard time creating chances. It often ends with a lot of position without it getting dangerous, but a few times i created a big/half big chance. Actually my intention was to play fast attacking football, which would also be easier to adapt to PL if i should succeed in promoting. But i'm willing to play another kind of football, if i could make that work better.

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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38 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

In your setup I don't think Work Ball Into Box will help you though or reduce long shots that much.  All of your movement is forward and once teams are pushed deep its easy for them to defend.  I bet when you watch attacks in the final third it all looks a bit static as the high runners have no space to run into like they're told to try often.  Bit like in real life when watching and you see all the players just standing around and there's no movement.  Your relying on a player doing something opposite of there instruction to come deep or someone to do something special probably the IF-Su.

You talk about making better chances, but how do you envision doing that?  Your roles and duties are setup to attack quickly with high runners which needs space.  But then you don't want them shooting whilst they have the chance, you'd rather they wait for support? Well you've not given them roles and duties that do that!  I think your falling into the "have your cake and eat it" trap, wanting fast exciting attacks but also want patience and possession and not getting what you want.  If you want the fast exciting attacking style your roles & duties suggest you need to address the out of possession instructions, create traps and don't just press high all the time and pin opponents in.  Especially when you don't have a Firmino type of forward who drops and enables more fluid movement.  If you want a more patient style i'd look at your forward roles and ask them to be attacking so they play those possession passes more.

I removed the Work ball into box PI a few matches ago, but unfortunately it didn't change much for me.. 
My intention was to play the fast attacking football - inspired by Liverpool in real life. Maybe you are right that my gegenpressing is too aggressive, because i can surely see that maybe it pins the opponents in from time to time. So you suggest that i use the same roles and duties, but to drop my DL and LOE much down to create more space?

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15 minutes ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

Actually my intention was to play fast attacking football

Well, if you are sure that your players are really good enough to play such style of football, I can give you an example of a tactic that belongs to that particular style. But you better think twice, because it can turn out to be double-edged sword and potentially backfire on you. 

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7 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, if you are sure that your players are really good enough to play such style of football, I can give you an example of a tactic that belongs to that particular style. But you better think twice, because it can turn out to be double-edged sword and potentially backfire on you. 

Compared to the rest of the league, i think my team is good enough - I have one of the best squads in the league. I originally tried to create a tactic like Liverpool plays in real life, with the fast attacking football and gegenpressing when losing the ball.

Edited by magnusmoeslund1

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Just now, magnusmoeslund1 said:

Compared to the rest of the league, i think my team is good enough. I originally tried to create a tactic like Liverpool plays in real life, with the fast attacking football and gegenpressing when losing the ball.

You seem to be confusing gegenpressing with counter-press, but okay. I'll give you an example of a fast attacking tactic, but please do not blame me if it goes awry :brock:

Here it is:

DLFat

Wsu                                    IFat

MEZat   BWMsu

HB

IWBsu    CDde   BPDde   WBsu

SKsu

Mentality - Positive

In possession - shorter passing, run at defence, pass into space, hit early crosses

In transition - distribute quickly to CBs and FBs, counter, counter-press

Out of possession - higher D-line, use offside trap

Player instructions:

Striker, AML, AMR and mezzala - close down more

DLF (striker) - roam from position

AML/IFat - sit narrower

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35 minutes ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

I removed the Work ball into box PI a few matches ago, but unfortunately it didn't change much for me.. 

Thats kind of my point, it wasn't helping because it wasn't the problem.

35 minutes ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

My intention was to play the fast attacking football - inspired by Liverpool in real life.

You can take them as inspiration but your patterns are different, they have more fluid movement where yours is more structured, what your lone forward does in a 433 makes a big difference.

35 minutes ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

Maybe you are right that my gegenpressing is too aggressive, because i can surely see that maybe it pins the opponents in from time to time.

FM's pressing options are limited, in RL they have actual triggers/patterns/traps whatever you want to call them.  FM doesn't have the same options so just pushing D-Line and LOE higher isn't really the same thing.   Hence recommended that video, you could Counter Press which can cause mistakes, but then do you keep pressing?  Or do you drop a bit and let opponents out then try to press/trap them? 

35 minutes ago, magnusmoeslund1 said:

So you suggest that i use the same roles and duties, but to drop my DL and LOE much down to create more space?

Don't be as aggressive with it if your going to use multiple attacking forwards.  If you want to be more aggressive i'd suggest a higher mentality so players take more risks, but not just by pressing higher.  The faster ball movement and risk taking could help create a chance quickly before defences get back and organized which your tactics patterns are not designed to break down.

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2 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

In your setup I don't think Work Ball Into Box will help you though or reduce long shots that much.  All of your movement is forward and once teams are pushed deep its easy for them to defend.  I bet when you watch attacks in the final third it all looks a bit static as the high runners have no space to run into like they're told to try often.  Bit like in real life when watching and you see all the players just standing around and there's no movement.  Your relying on a player doing something opposite of there instruction to come deep or someone to do something special probably the IF-Su.

You talk about making better chances, but how do you envision doing that?  Your roles and duties are setup to attack quickly with high runners which needs space.  But then you don't want them shooting whilst they have the chance, you'd rather they wait for support? Well you've not given them roles and duties that do that!  I think your falling into the "have your cake and eat it" trap, wanting fast exciting attacks but also want patience and possession and not getting what you want.  If you want the fast exciting attacking style your roles & duties suggest you need to address the out of possession instructions, create traps and don't just press high all the time and pin opponents in.  Especially when you don't have a Firmino type of forward who drops and enables more fluid movement.  If you want a more patient style i'd look at your forward roles and ask them to be attacking so they play those possession passes more.

This is something I'm more interested in. I'm Liverpool, heading into my second season & I would say the 6 draws are what cost me the League in my first season & it's because I couldn't break teams down with my "fast football". At times I've scored some great goals but a lot of goals have come from free-kicks & corners. Going into the 2nd season I need something a little more 'controlled' so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Here's my tactic below: 

https://imgur.com/a/3Uq62tu

I've actually scored 141 goals in 63 games which breaks down to 2.24 goals per game but I definitely want something more controlled as I said - much like the progression of the real life Liverpool.

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

You seem to be confusing gegenpressing with counter-press, but okay. I'll give you an example of a fast attacking tactic, but please do not blame me if it goes awry :brock:

Gegenpressing counter-pressing are the same thing..

Edit: I've completely forgot how to insert the image into a post so for now a link will have to do.

Edited by retrodude09

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8 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

This is something I'm more interested in. I'm Liverpool, heading into my second season & I would say the 6 draws are what cost me the League in my first season & it's because I couldn't break teams down with my "fast football". At times I've scored some great goals but a lot of goals have come from free-kicks & corners. Going into the 2nd season I need something a little more 'controlled' so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Here's my tactic below: 

https://imgur.com/a/3Uq62tu

I've actually scored 141 goals in 63 games which breaks down to 2.24 goals per game but I definitely want something more controlled as I said - much like the progression of the real life Liverpool.

I think you've gone to far the other way and i'd question how it suits your players.  The main strength of Liverpools current squad is there physical and technical attributes.  Those roles & duties are pretty much a possession system but your TI's aren't.

I wouldn't use Be More Disciplined in that type of system either, possession systems typically allows greater freedom to do something different when a player sees the opportunity and greater roaming to create overloads or space for others to attack.

I also wouldn't use Exploit The Middle by default, I use those instructions when I see a weakness during a game (players on yellow cards or the players getting beaten).

TBH I'd be more interested in your original system and maybe improving it or creating a minor variation rather than a whole new system but up to you.  Should probably do it in your own topic so don't end up with multiple peoples tactics being discussed in the same thread which could be confusing.

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7 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

I think you've gone to far the other way and i'd question how it suits your players.  The main strength of Liverpools current squad is there physical and technical attributes.  Those roles & duties are pretty much a possession system but your TI's aren't.

I wouldn't use Be More Disciplined in that type of system either, possession systems typically allows greater freedom to do something different when a player sees the opportunity and greater roaming to create overloads or space for others to attack.

I also wouldn't use Exploit The Middle by default, I use those instructions when I see a weakness during a game (players on yellow cards or the players getting beaten).

TBH I'd be more interested in your original system and maybe improving it or creating a minor variation rather than a whole new system but up to you.  Should probably do it in your own topic so don't end up with multiple peoples tactics being discussed in the same thread which could be confusing.

That was what I settled on as my "original system".

I used "Exploit the Middle" to give my CB's & DM a boost in mentality. It moved their mentality from 'cautious' to 'balanced' which in theory, should mean we're more compact as a team. "Be more disciplined" was just an experiment if I'm being honest.

Heading into 2020/21, it's more about evolution than revolution for me so 4-3-3 is still the basis of everything I want to do.

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17 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

This is something I'm more interested in. I'm Liverpool, heading into my second season & I would say the 6 draws are what cost me the League in my first season & it's because I couldn't break teams down with my "fast football". At times I've scored some great goals but a lot of goals have come from free-kicks & corners. Going into the 2nd season I need something a little more 'controlled' so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Here's my tactic below: 

https://imgur.com/a/3Uq62tu

If you want some help/advice on your tactic, you'll need to start a separate thread. 

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It’s clearly a bug in the game, that too many clear out and half chances are missed, when you are playing possession based... It’s a shame, because the ME has really turned out well In any other aspect in this years game imo

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8 minutes ago, Anders J said:

It’s clearly a bug in the game, that too many clear out and half chances are missed, when you are playing possession based... It’s a shame, because the ME has really turned out well In any other aspect in this years game imo

If you think there is a "bug", you can report it here in the relevant forum section.

Because this particular (tactics) section of the forum is exclusively about tactical help and advice. So please keep that in mind when posting comments.

Thank you.

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19 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

If you think there is a "bug", you can report it here in the relevant forum section.

Because this particular (tactics) section of the forum is exclusively about tactical help and advice. So please keep that in mind when posting comments.

Thank you.

It’s like, when people are criticizing the game, you are getting hurt?

i could post it over there, but could you prove me wrong? What is your own experience with this? 

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1 hour ago, Anders J said:

It’s like, when people are criticizing the game, you are getting hurt?

Absolutely not. It's only about which section of the forum is for which kind of posts/threads. People can criticize the game as much as they want, so long as they do that in a relevant sub-forum and do not use abusive or offensive language.

I personally am never hurt by other people's opinions about this game (or anything else). 

 

1 hour ago, Anders J said:

i could post it over there, but could you prove me wrong? What is your own experience with this? 

Why would I need to prove you wrong when I have not even said that "you are wrong". You completely missed the point of my previous post. The problem is not what you posted, but where.

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2 hours ago, Anders J said:

It’s clearly a bug in the game, that too many clear out and half chances are missed, when you are playing possession based... It’s a shame, because the ME has really turned out well In any other aspect in this years game imo

If you create good chances, you do not miss them. I am doing a thread right now about this. Good possession and good chance creation. If there is a bug, it is in how the game counts chances. Some things it counts as CCCs are far from it, and some chances that are clearly excellent are not counted as CCCs. It is mostly about how you set up, and how you get players in the correct positions and in space. There is also more factors than just "my team created a chance they should score". Form, confidence, pressure, complacency, the goalkeeper actually earning his money, defenders close by etc. This is the kind of thing we should discuss on these forums. To give each other ideas about how to play and more importantly enjoy the game. 

There are serious flaws in FM20, but as ED says this is not the place to discuss it. Just like you would not complain about the ME in the skinning forum. Anyway, sorry for disrupting this thread. 

 

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