"Split" Creative Freedom

[kurupted]

Hello everyone!

I have a question. These days i've been researching about Mourinho philosophy. I found some good and interesting topics in this forum, and many of you mentioned something that I didn't understand.

Everybody knows J Mourinho likes his teams to be strong in defence, they are very disciplined in the way they defend, and we also know he gives creative freedom to certain players, like the wingers, strikers, the attacking midfielder role. Everybody in his teams have clearly and strict roles and 3 or 4 players have the permission to try "something more".

Now. How can we achieve this in FM terms ? To achieve the strict roles we can easily use the "Be More Disciplined" TI, but that aplies to all the team, so, how can i give some creative freedom to the players upfront ? Ive been thinking, using an IF(A) with the TI Be More disciplined, he will be more creative than the other players, his roles makes him behave like that.

How does the PI "Roam From Position" can contribute to what i said before ? Give only 3 or 4 players high creative freedom, while the others have clearly strict jobs ?

[Robson 07]

2 hours ago, kurupted said:

Everybody knows J Mourinho likes his teams to be strong in defence, they are very disciplined in the way they defend, and we also know he gives creative freedom to certain players, like the wingers, strikers, the attacking midfielder role. Everybody in his teams have clearly and strict roles and 3 or 4 players have the permission to try "something more".

I did not know that.  In fact I'd be quite surprised to learn that he gives anyone creative license.

[zyfon5]

Pls be aware that Be more disciplined team instruction just makes your players follow your tactical instructions more. It might hinder you in some situations when your base tactic is not good. Adding a few instructions like roam from position will definitely give your player more freedom but not necessary good for your overall tactics. If you want your players to have more creative freedom, one simple way will be to pick players with more flair and technique, they will naturally do things outside your tactical setup more often

Edited March 23, 2020 by zyfon5

[MadOnion]

I'd be more inclined to look at certain attributes instead.

Mourinho would require the core of his team to have high numbers of teamwork and work-rate across the board but more so on his fullbacks, and centre-mids.
Certain players, like his centre-mids would also have low flair and high decisions so they can keep it simple.

When setting up TI, roles and duties pay attention to the players' individual mentality. The higher the mentality, the riskier will be the approach.
 

[kurupted]

Ive been thinking about that. Maybe the PI Roam From Position certainly gives more freedom but in the tactic probably will cause some issues.

MadOnion, I think thats the only way, giving the team simple roles, with 3 or 4 players some creative freedom through the choice of roles. When I use the Cautious mentality, my IF-A has a high mentality, so he has much more creative freedom than other players.

I am managing a second league team, a weak team, and i'm using a classic 433 with 2 IF's, 1 is in Attack duty and the other isn't, im currently using Cautious mentality, and my right IF(S) has a low mentality, but I don't want to give him an attack duty, probably if he had an attack duty it will cause many defensive issues.

[kurupted]

12 horas atrás, Robson 07 disse:

I did not know that.  In fact I'd be quite surprised to learn that he gives anyone creative license.

Ok, nice joke, but that's not enterely true xD

When he was managing Real Madrid, only the front 4 players had creative freedom. Ronaldo had a huge amount of freedom to do everything he wanted, Ozil same, Di Maria same, etc, the rest of the team had strict roles. Like in his teams. The problem is, recreating that "split" recreative freedom in FM engine.

[afailed10]

Use structured team shapes and high creative freedom roles in the players you want to have more freedom.

[Hilly1979]

36 minutes ago, KyleHyde said:

Use structured team shapes and high creative freedom roles in the players you want to have more freedom.

Team shape has now gone out of the game, hasn’t existed since fm18

[Robson 07]

2 hours ago, kurupted said:

Ok, nice joke, but that's not enterely true xD

When he was managing Real Madrid, only the front 4 players had creative freedom. Ronaldo had a huge amount of freedom to do everything he wanted, Ozil same, Di Maria same, etc, the rest of the team had strict roles. Like in his teams. 

Thanks for realising it was one, well maybe half a one.  Bitter Utd fan here, we just had a huge serving of crap football and a creative drain when he was with us.  Was a relief when he was asked to take his melodrama elsewhere.

[kurupted]

17 minutos atrás, Robson 07 disse:

Thanks for realising it was one, well maybe half a one.  Bitter Utd fan here, we just had a huge serving of crap football and a creative drain when he was with us.  Was a relief when he was asked to take his melodrama elsewhere.

Thats a reality. His teams never played an exciting football, probably Chelsea or Real Madrid. But you cant deny one thing. He wins titles every club he manages. In Man Utd he won the English Supercup, UEFA Europa League and other titles, thats enough to put a regular manager into the top class. What he achieved in Man Utd you will not see in the next years, that the reality too. Im not discussing if he plays bad or good football, what you can't deny is that he is one of the most successful managers of all time, despite his philosophy, every manager admires him for what he achieved.

[MadOnion]

2 hours ago, kurupted said:

Ive been thinking about that. Maybe the PI Roam From Position certainly gives more freedom but in the tactic probably will cause some issues.

MadOnion, I think thats the only way, giving the team simple roles, with 3 or 4 players some creative freedom through the choice of roles. When I use the Cautious mentality, my IF-A has a high mentality, so he has much more creative freedom than other players.

I am managing a second league team, a weak team, and i'm using a classic 433 with 2 IF's, 1 is in Attack duty and the other isn't, im currently using Cautious mentality, and my right IF(S) has a low mentality, but I don't want to give him an attack duty, probably if he had an attack duty it will cause many defensive issues.

Also note Inside Forwards and Inverted Winger have different mentalities on the same duty, so that will probably help achieving want you want.

Achieving compactness typically means same mentality across the board, otherwise it will be structured. I always thought Mourinho's philosophy lies somewhere in the middle whereas Pep's/Klopp's is more on the structured end.

[afailed10]

1 hour ago, Hilly1979 said:

Team shape has now gone out of the game, hasn’t existed since fm18

Ye i know but it's possible it's still something more than a mere indication in the TC. I'd use it as a guideline.

In any case, roles certainly have different creative freedom besides the obvious different behaviours. Some roles not only will attract the ball but will also make the PPM's shine through or allow the player to take more risks (depending on mentality). I also may use a "simpler" role to make his passing and tempo quicker. For instance, I believe a BWM on defend duty will release the ball quicker and with less risks than a CM-S or even a CM-D. But that needs further testing, it's just my overall impression of years of playing.

I'm a fan of Mourinho btw. I've tried to emulate his tactics in every iteration of FM. One thing he does in most teams is overloads in the flanks. I'd get your wide forwards and attacking mids to learn 1-2s, so then they unlock space. Generally I'd be careful with the role selection, like using FB instead of WB or CWB because of their built in dribbling etc. But he always had one attacking full back in his teams so it's a matter of how much you want him to be dribbling and leaving his position.

You'll have to think about the attacking transition then. How will you get the ball to your "Creators" and how quickly? Are your fullbacks good enough offensively? then perhaps opt for a slow enough tempo to allow them to get into dangerous positions. But if they are poor attacking wise then perhaps get the ball quickly into attack (maybe a top heavy formation is better here) and leave the fb's behind as outlets and cover.

If your wide forwards have flair, vision and are your mean creators, then don't be shy to use more creative roles than, say, a winger, who can be fairly one dimensional sometimes. A Trequartista or even a playmaker can work great and don't forget this is a game you'll never get it 100% right so it's best to use a reference as an inspiration and give it your own spin.

[Robson 07]

10 minutes ago, kurupted said:

Thats a reality. His teams never played an exciting football, probably Chelsea or Real Madrid. But you cant deny one thing. He wins titles every club he manages. In Man Utd he won the English Supercup, UEFA Europa League and other titles, thats enough to put a regular manager into the top class. What he achieved in Man Utd you will not see in the next years, that the reality too. Im not discussing if he plays bad or good football, what you can't deny is that he is one of the most successful managers of all time, despite his philosophy, every manager admires him for what he achieved.

His reputation is in decline.  His tactics are defensive and dated.  He was deservedly sacked at Utd.  Please let me leave your thread in peace for you to get your FM answers but you won't sell him to many Utd fans and pretty soon now, I suspect, the same for Spurs.

[Experienced Defender]

10 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

His reputation is in decline.  His tactics are defensive and dated.  He was deservedly sacked at Utd.  Please let me leave your thread in peace for you to get your FM answers but you won't sell him to many Utd fans and pretty soon now, I suspect, the same for Spurs.

You are most probably right on this particular point, mate. But please let's not derail the thread