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Good afternoon all. I hope you are well. 

First time poster so be gentle! 

Before I start can I point out how much I have (and am!) enjoyed this forum. Its a veritable Aladdins cave of information. I thought I knew a fair bit about the game and how to set up a side. Turns out I knew diddly. So thanks for everyone's continued input. 

To business. 

I've just started a Spurs save. My home form is excellent. My away form stinks however

 We struggle to score more then once (the only time I have scored twice is away vs Red Bull Leipzig in the CL. THEY were the better team though).

Two goals in four away games is my record. Ouch. Two draws and two defeats. Both defeats were 1-0 against teams that played 541 or 451 defensives. Needless to say. Hard work, and we couldn't break them down despite having plenty of the ball. 61% vs Brighton(16 shots 5 on target 1 ccc) and 56% vs Newcastle (20 shots 7 on target. 0 CCC) Ido use WBIB. So I am not impressed by my sides inability to work the keeper! I noticed in the Brighton game Son had 1 shot in 8 on target!
As u can imagine the oppo don't really create much either. The Newcastle defeat came from a pen. The Brighton game from a worked move down the right flank.

I use either a 4231 or a 4141. Split press. I use roam from position for my front four to maximise passing opportunities and ask them to close down cbs and cdms.

I also close down wingers.

My set up is below.

                                           Lloris SK (s)       Davies LB (Fb Sup) Jan and Toby CB (d) aurier iwb (s)

                             Vidal DM (s)

         Lo Celso DLP (S) Milinkovic Savic (bbm)

      Son IF (A)                              Chiesa W (sup)

                          SIR Harry DLF (S)

Mentality (Balanced)
In Possession - Higher Tempo, Narrow.
In Transition - counter
Out of Possession - LLOE

I ask Jan and Toby to play simple passes.

Its a counterish system. I do have pace in the wide areas. Both chisea and son have 17 acc and 15 pace. Likewise in cm lo Celso and Milinkovic are 14 and 13.

Should I be less narrow. Should my FBS be more aggressive? Or should I look to control the game more. I have Harry Kane and quite simply I'm not getting the best out of him.

Sorry if I have missed anything. My two draws came away at Everton and Palace. At home I seem to score a lot of set pieces. I'd like to see more open play goals.

At home I play a 4231. Same as above but Vidal as a DLP Milinkovic BBM and Lo Celso as a AP (A) and Harry as a DLF (S).

Its early days granted, and my only link / partnership is Toby and Jan at the back. Do I just need patience and wait for the team to bed in? 

Any help would be wonderful.

Be safe people!

Regards, 

Liam. 

Edited by LiamNCFC
Duplication of first part of post.
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Is this a correct representation of your formation?

ScreenClip.thumb.png.a78dd26c2e68c4dccff3e4fc93cb4e2c.png

If so I'm not a fan of your right side and frankly I would switch the roles of your fullbacks.  Your DLP-S will provide you a bit of cover so personally I would change your RB to be the FB-S and your LB to be the IWB-S.  I would then also add the 'Overlap Right' TI to change his mentality (Balanced->Positive) without having to change his role to attack keeping your defensive solidarity.

So it would look something like this.. you end up with a nice 2-3-5 shape when you are attacking.  Solid against counters and movement from all the levels... should give you a little more punch in attack.  I'd start there and then watch what happens.

ScreenClip.thumb.png.a06373e0cf5e11430c8970eca3c4bd9a.png

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Posted (edited)

Apologies I put it the wrong way round. 

Im a klutz! 

As attached.

My bad. 

Basically it's the mirror of the one u posted. 

 

IMG_20200322_165642.jpg

Edited by LiamNCFC
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9 minutes ago, LiamNCFC said:

Apologies I put it the wrong way round. 

Im a klutz! 

As attached.

My bad. 

Basically it's the mirror of the one u posted. 

 

IMG_20200322_165642.jpg

Switch sides of your DLP-S and BBM-S.  Idea is overload the right side and attract them to your playmaker and hit them on the otherside with your IF-A and BBM-S.  I'd also mess around with the Overlap Right TI if you want to get a bit more aggressive.

Edited by Kharza_FM
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Thanks very much for your time. I'll give it a whirl and see how it goes. Apologies for the confusion. Your help is much appreciated sir! 

Liam. 

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5 hours ago, LiamNCFC said:

IMG_20200322_165642.jpg

 

7 hours ago, LiamNCFC said:

Mentality (Balanced)
In Possession - Higher Tempo, Narrow.
In Transition - counter
Out of Possession - LLOE

 

7 hours ago, LiamNCFC said:

Its a counterish system

Well, it actually isn't counter-ish. It does have 3 elements of a counter-attacking tactic - higher tempo, lower LOE and the counter instruction (which is not even necessary in a real counter tactic). But the setup of roles and duties does not really go hand in hand with a counter-attacking style.

On top of that, the big question is whether a counter-attacking tactic as such would make much (if any) sense for a top team like Spurs (regardless of their current real-life troubles). Even if you manage to create the "best counter-attacking tactic in the world", is it going to work when most of the time you are going to face defensive or very defensive opposition that will hardly leave you (enough) space for counter-attacks?

So you first need to reconsider your approach IMHO. If I managed a team of the Spurs' strength, quality and reputation, I would most probably go for what I call "progressive possession football". 

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........ I had the same thought after another fruitless endeavour against a resilient Norwich team. 

I upped the line of engagement but stayed with the same system and changed to a positive mentality. DLP on support and a AP on attack in CM. Vidal went from support to defence duty at DM. And I changed to Shorter passing and because I have quick wingers who can dribble, I put dribble more, (the team as a whole have excellent dribbling skills) andbthis seems to have just clicked. 

I suppose I didn't think about it too well, my initial apprasil of the squad. I lacked pace at the back and had okish technical ability for the squad at the start of the save. With me bringing in better quality players, I should have realised the shift earlier and revaluated sooner. I got 'married' to one way of playing. A lesson learned for sure!

Thanks for your help guys. Much appreciated! 

 

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I’m struggling with Tottenham to be honest, 4-2-3-1 suits the players I’ve got, i’m using a well balanced set of roles and duties and no additional team instructions set just to simplify things but getting no joy.

thinking of going the hard to break down route and 4-4-1-1 and see if I can grind out a couple of results.

always believed less was more in previous years not sure this is the case this time around.

conquered the world in fm18 with basically the same set of players.

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But the setup of roles and duties does not really go hand in hand with a counter-attacking style.

Just as an aside experienced defender, what roles do you consider suitable in counter attacking systems? 

Or is there a thread somewhere discussing this. 

Thanks again. 

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@LiamNCFC - Oldie but a goodie - 

It's all about managing the transitions.. so to counter you need to have player roles that exploit the transition WHEN you win the ball.  So need roles that have an attack duty.  You also then need to think about how and where you get those players the ball.. can be long balls to flanks to run on to but doesn't need to.  If you have a really quick player that can dribble he can also be the outlet.. so a role that allows him to be higher up the pitch, in space, and then get him the ball on the transition and get him support.. it's about layered support as well (this is what makes Leicester so brutal on the counter.. it's the waves of runners supporting the counter).

 

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24 minutes ago, LiamNCFC said:

But the setup of roles and duties does not really go hand in hand with a counter-attacking style.

Just as an aside experienced defender, what roles do you consider suitable in counter attacking systems?

It's more about duties in this particular case than roles. For a counter-attacking style, it's important to have enough forward players who are ready to attack the space as early as possible in the attacking transitions. So if you use the 4141dm wide formation, the lone striker should definitely be on attack duty (the role would depend on the rest of your setup and of course the type of player himself). But that's just a part of the equation.

But again, I am not sure how advisable it would be to play a counter-attacking style with a top team like Tottenham anyway. 

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Thanks again mate. 

Yes I learnt my lesson around about January! 

When I went with a more possession based tactic I went on an 11 game unbeaten run and nicked 4th.

Thanks for the link. Top man. 

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