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Love the detail and thought that has gone into this, going to try it with a new save in League 1 and see how it fairs :thup:

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Looks fine. I´m testing it with Hoffenheim - from the beginning a good team for this tactic. Robert Skov ist great as WP, strong strikers (Kramaric, Belfodil, Dabbur), hard working midfield (Samassékou, Geiger, Rudy)...I´ve won the first four games (A-4:0 vs. an underdog in the cup, H-2:0 vs. Leverkusen (!), A-4:0 vs. Union, H-1:0 vs. Wolfsburg) in a really beautiful way.

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Finally you've made the fm20 version, tried using the fm19 version but with very mixed results, can't wait to get this fired up and start using it on my Ipswich save 2023 in the prem and sitting 15th. If I can stay up I should be able to bring in the players needed. 

I'm on beta 20.2.4 so let's hope it's as good as the fm19 version. 

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1 hour ago, thegoon65 said:

Finally you've made the fm20 version, tried using the fm19 version but with very mixed results, can't wait to get this fired up and start using it on my Ipswich save 2023 in the prem and sitting 15th. If I can stay up I should be able to bring in the players needed. 

I'm on beta 20.2.4 so let's hope it's as good as the fm19 version. 

How you are in 20.2.4 BETA? Hm?

BTW looks promising tactic and balanced.

+1

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Do you change the Mentality (attacking, positive, balanced, etc) as the games go or do you just play as it is?

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1 hour ago, danjpalmer1984 said:

Do you change the Mentality (attacking, positive, balanced, etc) as the games go or do you just play as it is?

I don’t change mentality at all. The only changes I would consider making would be to defensive line (back to standard), and perhaps one/both fullbacks down one notch if the opponent has particularly dangerous wide forwards (Mbappe, Neymar, etc.) 
 

I think changing mentality changes too much and causes more harm than good. I’ve tried both attacking and balanced, but I think control works best. 

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3 hours ago, Cadoni said:

How you are in 20.2.4 BETA? Hm?

BTW looks promising tactic and balanced.

+1

Sorry Beta 20.4.0 typed it wrong

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6 hours ago, thegoon65 said:

Finally you've made the fm20 version, tried using the fm19 version but with very mixed results, can't wait to get this fired up and start using it on my Ipswich save 2023 in the prem and sitting 15th. If I can stay up I should be able to bring in the players needed. 

I'm on beta 20.2.4 so let's hope it's as good as the fm19 version. 

I didn’t play the beta but the ME with the latest update isn’t that bad, no crazy one on one or ball over the top issues. Looks and feels very similar to FM 19.

Great to see you here again! The main changes I made since FM 19 are the support striker role, build up play (removed work ball into box to encouraging more crossing), and removed prevent short GK distribution as this needs 3 up top. A bit of trial and error based on my observations from the match engine. 
 

on my 13th or 14th season and still searching for that 6’5” Bomber that will tear up Europe with this tactic. Good tall striker regens seem to be so rare. 

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Quick question the left cms can I give him DLP pi's or would this affect his positional role? 

I have a perfect player as a DLPs but don't want to upset the balance. 

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2 hours ago, thegoon65 said:

Quick question the left cms can I give him DLP pi's or would this affect his positional role? 

I have a perfect player as a DLPs but don't want to upset the balance. 

A DLP type stats is the best for this role. Good passing/vision but also solid defensively. I wouldn’t change any PIs, but you could train PPMs to help him (dictate tempo, tries long range passes, etc). 

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2 hours ago, kr10 said:

A DLP type stats is the best for this role. Good passing/vision but also solid defensively. I wouldn’t change any PIs, but you could train PPMs to help him (dictate tempo, tries long range passes, etc). 

Nice one cheers for quick reply. 

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Survived first season in prem with Ipswich finished 13th. Huge rebuild ongoing but given only £26m so gotta shop carefully. 

Positions I need are 

Left Back defend

Right Back attack

Right Wide Playmaker

Central Midfield support

Central Midfield defend 

Lots of scouting going on and lots of trials but very hard finding the right players, great fun though trying to haggle deals on the never never. 

Will post up after window closes who I managed to buy and you can let me know what you think🤔

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Only £26m? That's really low.

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22 hours ago, Cadoni said:

Only £26m? That's really low.

Yep Ipswich ain't the richest club and have a high debt that needed clearing. It's fun though as makes you really scout and think before buying a player making sure his the one you really need. 

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25 minutes ago, thegoon65 said:

Yep Ipswich ain't the richest club and have a high debt that needed clearing. It's fun though as makes you really scout and think before buying a player making sure his the one you really need. 

I would prefer clearing the debts, first. :-)

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2 hours ago, Cadoni said:

I would prefer clearing the debts, first. :-)

Board have used the prem money wisely and debt is cleared. They want me to fight bravely against relegation again so no pressure. The transfer budget amount is ok and used wisely I think I've got a squad good enough to again finish between 17th and 13th. Once home will post up the players I managed to bring in. 

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Posted (edited)

Ok window closed and I managed to buy all players I needed. I had a budget of £26m and with sales got that up to £40m.

20200326230838_1.thumb.jpg.52c66ae87dffc5b927522ffe134c9e39.jpg

My Attacking Right Back

20200326230900_1.thumb.jpg.65ce2821d8c38dfbd8a664b3d28fd38c.jpg

My Defensive Left Back

20200326230921_1.thumb.jpg.311a91d2c74610fb213d8bd4eb741570.jpg

My Wide Playmaker Right

20200326231000_1.thumb.jpg.9a7f160189408957eb124cf102e392ae.jpg

My Central Midfielder Defend Right

20200326231039_1.thumb.jpg.1be1f3e24351860bb5a94f8aa50a7144.jpg

My Central Midfielder Support Left

20200326231102_1.thumb.jpg.3a972d219057b43811e3bbb925488188.jpg

Let me know what you think. These are the best I can afford that fit the club vision and the tactical style, am predicted to finish 19th again will update during the season.

Edited by thegoon65
better quality pictures

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I made a couple key changes to improve the performance of this tactic, and add a bit more balance (especially for CL away games). 
 

remove “counter”, change CF to PF(s). Both changes help keep possession a bit better 

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1 hour ago, kr10 said:

I made a couple key changes to improve the performance of this tactic, and add a bit more balance (especially for CL away games). 
 

remove “counter”, change CF to PF(s). Both changes help keep possession a bit better 

That will help me in the prem, all I've altered is added play for set pieces(good team and have developed some good routines)and removed get stuck in as too many missed tackles in the prem and 8 yellows in 2 games decided that.

Loving this tactic and if anyone intrested will post up my set piece routines. 

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1 hour ago, thegoon65 said:

That will help me in the prem, all I've altered is added play for set pieces(good team and have developed some good routines)and removed get stuck in as too many missed tackles in the prem and 8 yellows in 2 games decided that.

Loving this tactic and if anyone intrested will post up my set piece routines. 

I would urge you to keep get stuck In - just ask players to ease of tackles once they get it a yellow. I experimented a lot and the tactic is more more defensively solid with this instruction. It just means that your 2 CMs need to basically be physical destroyers. You can also create a lot of chances by quickly winning the ball back and restricting space. 
 

it affects not only tackling intensity, but also how close you mark the other team. 
 

by easing of tackles after a yellow, I get at most one red card a season, if that

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2 hours ago, kr10 said:

I would urge you to keep get stuck In - just ask players to ease of tackles once they get it a yellow. I experimented a lot and the tactic is more more defensively solid with this instruction. It just means that your 2 CMs need to basically be physical destroyers. You can also create a lot of chances by quickly winning the ball back and restricting space. 
 

it affects not only tackling intensity, but also how close you mark the other team. 
 

by easing of tackles after a yellow, I get at most one red card a season, if that

hmmmm ok I will give it a try

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20200328190715_1.thumb.jpg.56c9a803a6df965bd38706ce06e9fbff.jpg

Ok 2 months into the season, followed the added and changed hints from the thread and apart from the opening game everything going great. The football is a joy to watch and happy with my current squad, the new players especially the CMd and RBa have been immense. Predicted to finish 19th and currently sitting 3rd.

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20 minutes ago, thegoon65 said:

20200328190715_1.thumb.jpg.56c9a803a6df965bd38706ce06e9fbff.jpg

Ok 2 months into the season, followed the added and changed hints from the thread and apart from the opening game everything going great. The football is a joy to watch and happy with my current squad, the new players especially the CMd and RBa have been immense. Predicted to finish 19th and currently sitting 3rd.

Great stuff, glad it’s working for you.

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Kr10 have you updated the original tactic with your new changes? 

Admit the Get Stuck In being ticked does improve marking and helps with the pressing side of the tactic. Only downside 2 if my main players hit the 5 yellow card suspension. My backups are ok but got walloped by arsenal at home 4-1. So January window will be to buy or loan better backup players 

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1 hour ago, thegoon65 said:

Kr10 have you updated the original tactic with your new changes? 

Admit the Get Stuck In being ticked does improve marking and helps with the pressing side of the tactic. Only downside 2 if my main players hit the 5 yellow card suspension. My backups are ok but got walloped by arsenal at home 4-1. So January window will be to buy or loan better backup players 

I haven’t yet, but I thought whoever comes and sees the comments etc and adjust it themselves. 
 

Definitely need good depth - not just for suspensions, but also for the high intensity nature of the tactic. Could lead to fatigue/injuries. I try to keep 3 starting level players and 1 backup/wonderkid for every 2 positions. So for strikers, CMs, CBS, etc. 

 

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21 minutes ago, kr10 said:

I haven’t yet, but I thought whoever comes and sees the comments etc and adjust it themselves. 
 

Definitely need good depth - not just for suspensions, but also for the high intensity nature of the tactic. Could lead to fatigue/injuries. I try to keep 3 starting level players and 1 backup/wonderkid for every 2 positions. So for strikers, CMs, CBS, etc. 

 

Good advice that. I'm defo lacking in several key areas for backup. So my scouting has been focused on the positions I need. 

My youth and junior levels/facilities are now world class, I have a great HOYD so hopefully some local top talent should start coming through. 

Key areas need for support players are. 

RBa

DCd

WPs(MR) 

Wingera(ML) 

So a busy January and summer ahead. I might risk not buying in January and focus full budget in the summer on the above need players. 

 

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21 hours ago, kr10 said:

 

Do you have a list of ppm's you use for each position? 

 

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4 hours ago, thegoon65 said:

Do you have a list of ppm's you use for each position? 

 

I think PPMs should largely be based on the characteristics of your players. 
 

the game is obsessed with making midfielders “get forward when possible” - I would say just avoid that for all players except your winger/fight back. 
 

Below is a list of PPMs I tend to use, but again it depends on your players and what makes sense:

- RB - gets forward, Knocks ball past opponent 

CM-d: stays back at all times 

WP: dictates tempo, killer balls, switch balls to other flank

winger: runs wide, runs often, tries tricks, beats man repeatedly 

PF: comes deep to get ball, tries killer balls 

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On 29/03/2020 at 16:13, thegoon65 said:

Good advice that. I'm defo lacking in several key areas for backup. So my scouting has been focused on the positions I need. 

My youth and junior levels/facilities are now world class, I have a great HOYD so hopefully some local top talent should start coming through. 

Key areas need for support players are. 

RBa

DCd

WPs(MR) 

Wingera(ML) 

So a busy January and summer ahead. I might risk not buying in January and focus full budget in the summer on the above need players. 

 

Are you still on the beta ME? This tactic works really well and looks gorgeous on the latest ME. The pass and move and combination play is superb. I’d update if I were you

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13 hours ago, kr10 said:

Are you still on the beta ME? This tactic works really well and looks gorgeous on the latest ME. The pass and move and combination play is superb. I’d update if I were you

I'm at work but will check once home. 

I'm loving this tactic my 2 central midfielders are beasts. This tactic deserves so much more recognition. 

Have you posted it on other sites? Fmbase and Fmscout for instance. 

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18 minutes ago, thegoon65 said:

I'm at work but will check once home. 

I'm loving this tactic my 2 central midfielders are beasts. This tactic deserves so much more recognition. 

Have you posted it on other sites? Fmbase and Fmscout for instance. 

My post on FM 19 forums on this site got more traction, but sadly not this. But I agree I absolutely love it too, results aside. Genuinely beautiful football that mirrors real world concepts. I wish more people would see this and give it a go. 
 

I haven’t posted on the other sites yet, will do so soon. Thanks for the positive feedback as always 

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8 hours ago, kr10 said:

My post on FM 19 forums on this site got more traction, but sadly not this. But I agree I absolutely love it too, results aside. Genuinely beautiful football that mirrors real world concepts. I wish more people would see this and give it a go. 
 

I haven’t posted on the other sites yet, will do so soon. Thanks for the positive feedback as always 

No probs. I'm also loving the real style football, the edge of seat 1-0 wins, my Chelsea game I lost 1-0 to an 88th goal and had to leave the game for 20 mins as was gutted, we played amazing and deserved a draw. Fab game and the best tactic I've used, simple, productive and fun to watch. 

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23 minutes ago, andre62 said:

this tactic work for underdog teams?

I think it will as overall it is quite balanced and defensively sound. Quite a few people tried it on FM19 with good results, using a range of teams. 
 

Which team are you managing? To me, as long as the team is capable of pressing and using an offside trap it should work, in LLM for example it might be to simplified 

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22 minutes ago, andre62 said:

this tactic work for underdog teams?

Mate I'm Ipswich 2nd season in the prem, forecast to finish 19th and sitting in 4th. As kr10 says the right players are vital but you don't need to spend big money on them. My most expensive buy is £17m which in the prem is peanuts :cool:

20200402194508_1.thumb.jpg.92e809467f9563ba91909eb94cad6380.jpg

current league form

20200402205657_1.thumb.jpg.eca430b74fe9e016a8c3de248e07c53d.jpg

media prediction

 

20200402205721_1.thumb.jpg.7a0567edf33c0c494dcdf80769d502fa.jpg

current league standing

using the me 20.2.4

 

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and any change for away games or against bigger teams?

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48 minutes ago, andre62 said:

and any change for away games or against bigger teams?

 

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What type of player do you advise for RM? I know you said playmaker, what other stats would he need? Does he need to have the general physicals of a typical wide player? Also can you talk about how important his foot is? Is it possible I can play someone with reasonable left foot there?

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6 hours ago, andre62 said:

and any change for away games or against bigger teams?

Based on the characteristics of the opposition strikers you could move the defensive line back to standard. However, with the right CBs (speed, anticipation, position, teamwork), the high press with offside trap becomes more effective and this won't be necessary.

It also helps to have a goalie with a good one on ones attribute. 

The key is in having the right CMs who can cover ground and make the tackle to provide a shield to the CBs.   

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5 hours ago, markv1 said:

What type of player do you advise for RM? I know you said playmaker, what other stats would he need? Does he need to have the general physicals of a typical wide player? Also can you talk about how important his foot is? Is it possible I can play someone with reasonable left foot there?

Foot is critical - for the tactic posted above, you want someone with a stronger left foot, as this will encourage cutting in behavior. Even for an either footed player, you want left foot to be very strong, as he will tend to dribble towards his stronger foot. Alternatively, you could go with right footed winger/playmaker and make both your strikers be left footed. 

 

Regarding the playmaker, a classic 10 would do. In addition to passion, vision, composure, technique etc, I would also look for teamwork, flair, and workrate. But most advanced playmakers can do a good job here. 

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15 hours ago, markv1 said:

What type of player do you advise for RM? I know you said playmaker, what other stats would he need? Does he need to have the general physicals of a typical wide player? Also can you talk about how important his foot is? Is it possible I can play someone with reasonable left foot there?

I got Joe Willock from Arsenal on a free. His down as a AMC but his stats are perfectly suited to a wide playmaker. Have had him retrainonh and his a superstar his stats are in the picture on an earlier post. 

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14 hours ago, kr10 said:

Foot is critical - for the tactic posted above, you want someone with a stronger left foot, as this will encourage cutting in behavior. Even for an either footed player, you want left foot to be very strong, as he will tend to dribble towards his stronger foot. Alternatively, you could go with right footed winger/playmaker and make both your strikers be left footed. 

 

Regarding the playmaker, a classic 10 would do. In addition to passion, vision, composure, technique etc, I would also look for teamwork, flair, and workrate. But most advanced playmakers can do a good job here. 

Thanks for the reply. I will playthrough a season a give some results.

Few questions:

1) Regarding PF(s). Would it be possible to play someone with PF attributes (high mentals and physicals) but has bad/decent finishing? How often is he finding himself in scoring opportunities vs making chances + space for others?

2) What changes would you make for

i) going down to 10 men

ii) securing a lead in the final 10/15 mins

iii) having to chase a goal or two.

 

So far I am impressed with the tactic. It satisfies 2 main things for me. Firstly plays fantastic looking football on the ME. It is not as fun if i'm winning with boring looking unrealistic play. Additionally, I commend you for being one of the few tactics on here who isn't using the throw in exploits.

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11 hours ago, markv1 said:

Thanks for the reply. I will playthrough a season a give some results.

Few questions:

1) Regarding PF(s). Would it be possible to play someone with PF attributes (high mentals and physicals) but has bad/decent finishing? How often is he finding himself in scoring opportunities vs making chances + space for others?

2) What changes would you make for

i) going down to 10 men

ii) securing a lead in the final 10/15 mins

iii) having to chase a goal or two.

 

So far I am impressed with the tactic. It satisfies 2 main things for me. Firstly plays fantastic looking football on the ME. It is not as fun if i'm winning with boring looking unrealistic play. Additionally, I commend you for being one of the few tactics on here who isn't using the throw in exploits.

1. The ideal player here is a DLF type - good hold up play, passing/vision, and solid finishing. Doesn’t have to be extremely quick, but certainly needs to be a good finisher. I tired a DLF and CF here a lot, but the performance of the team just wasn’t as good as a PF, especially for those crucial CL away games. I suspect it is to do with DLF/CF having “move into channels” - with the AF also moving into channels; the strikers get too much horizontal separation. 
 

2. 

i) Go to 4-4-1. Same duties in mid and defense. Lone striker is PF(s)

ii) I don’t change shape, but there are a few changes you can do, again based on the opposition: drop defense line to standard, shorter passing, waste time, etc. alternatively, you could go to a 4-1-4-1 setup (MR/ML), with a support duty striker up top. 
 

iii) this is a tricky one. Again it depends on the opposition. One thing that worked for me is going with an ultra high press 4231. You can’t press super high up the pitch or prevent GK distribution with a 442, as there are only 2 men in advanced positions. But a 4231 with higher line of engagement and prevent short GK distribution can achieve this. Did this in a recent CL final when losing 1-0 in extra time. Winger attack and IF(s), with a shadow striker behind a DLF(s). 
 

thanks for taking the time, and for the positive feedback. By goal all along was to create a realistic tactic, based on real life football concepts - at the end of the day, I am more a football fan than an FM fan. I didn’t just want results with ME exploits/unbalanced tactics,  but something realistic you could use to build your team around. This tactic was the result of a lot of thought experimentation over several editions and seasons of FM. Looking forward to hearing your results. 

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Coming up to end of January and will post up league and current form. 

Made the league Cup final play Man Utd. Into 5th round of fa cup. League wise bit up and down but have played Arsenal, City, Utd and Liverpool so not expecting much from the top 6 home and away. 

Once home will post up the table etc. 

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Here are the latest results up to end of January and current League table. Good news have reached the League Cup Final

 

20200406195424_1.jpg

20200406195437_1.jpg

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Kr10 posted

So far, I am keeping possession better, and am a lot more solid defensively, as the AM helps protect the midfield areas. The football isn't as pretty, it isn't really what I want from a pure 4-4-2, but I was forced to make these changes against teams that have so many central players. The football is less exciting and less penetrating, but more solid and measured, which could be good for away games against big teams. 

I am also trying out an AM(A) with a AF (A) - one direct AF working channels/going wide, and an AM(A) attacking the central space.

Would be great if you could also try it out and let me know your results - it has worked for me so far. 

To summarize, it would look like this:

             CF(s)

             AM(a)

W(a) CM (s) CM (d) WP (s)

Fb(s) BPD(d)  CD (d)  FB (a)

Once home from work will try this, have you got a good PFa? 

I've got about 5 or 6 tough away games so perfect to try it out. I take it the team and player instructions are the same just positional changes. 

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2 minutes ago, thegoon65 said:

Kr10 posted

So far, I am keeping possession better, and am a lot more solid defensively, as the AM helps protect the midfield areas. The football isn't as pretty, it isn't really what I want from a pure 4-4-2, but I was forced to make these changes against teams that have so many central players. The football is less exciting and less penetrating, but more solid and measured, which could be good for away games against big teams. 

I am also trying out an AM(A) with a AF (A) - one direct AF working channels/going wide, and an AM(A) attacking the central space.

Would be great if you could also try it out and let me know your results - it has worked for me so far. 

To summarize, it would look like this:

             CF(s)

             AM(a)

W(a) CM (s) CM (d) WP (s)

Fb(s) BPD(d)  CD (d)  FB (a)

Once home from work will try this, have you got a good PFa? 

I've got about 5 or 6 tough away games so perfect to try it out. I take it the team and player instructions are the same just positional changes. 

I posted a screenshot of the revised tactic, a couple minor tweaks to team instructions. 
 

to be honest I am still torn between using an attack duty striker or support duty striker, in front of the AM(a). 
 

for now I feel the AM(a) and AF(a) combo works well as it recreates a 442 shape in attack, while allowing for the direct penetrative nature of the tactic. Using a support duty striker would make it feel too much like a 4231 which I want to avoid at all costs.

so I would go with the screenshot tactic, and maybe just use an AF instead of a PF based on who you have.

i am still testing this tactic and doing some theory crafting in my head to see what works best. 
 

I definitely want an attack duty role at #9. For the 10 position, I want someone who links up play and then gets into the box at the end of moves like a second striker, and the AM(a) seems to do this. However, guides recommend against playing 2 attack duties behind each other. Would be great to hear your experiences so I can try and refine it further. 

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So no change with Pi's just a change if Ti's and a few roles. With the DLFs could you also use a PFs? 

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4 hours ago, thegoon65 said:

So no change with Pi's just a change if Ti's and a few roles. With the DLFs could you also use a PFs? 

@thegoon65

Ok so I played around with a few settings and roles. I have come up with this - a few tweaks from the original, mostly in terms of team instructions.

DLF(s) is back in for link up play (as according to the guide the PF plays like an AF), and there are some changes in TIs:

- Pass shorter, to prevent unnecessary turnover of possession

- Much higher defensive line, standard LOE & defend narrower - to achieve horizontal and vertical compactness

- Removed counter-press, added counter (I think both these are situational, but I would like counter to be ticked most games)

- Removed get stuck in etc.

Updated tactic shown below. I'm going to be taking a break for the game for a while, but I hope this works for you:

 

A.C. Milan_ Overview-9.png

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