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Stats make no sense in FM (Match data)


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Last 4 seasons in the premier league, Gateshead, 2034-2038

 

With a simple 4-4-2 with slight modifications now and then, mostly short passing I have witnessed the weirdest things in football while playing FM. The tactic has varied though from season to season, from a single season with only direct passing to the 3 others with a more controlled game, the overall league stats have stayed identical though, all from conversion rates to tackles made.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019216725

 

My team is best in almost every aspect, crosses completed, shots on target and not to forget the 4 past years I have created on average 50% more chances than the second best team. This year I am lacking a bit in that department but still in front. Yet every single game is a desperate battle of opposing keepers getting 7+ ratings while my "world class keeper" hasn´t seen a single 7 in 4 seasons ... he does have fantastic stats though and no evil quirks. he does get 6,8 every game.

I have the topscorer in the league, world class striker too with no evil quirks, he however requires about twice the amount of chances of every other single striker in the premier league, even one with abysmal attributes Bristol is using. This of course falls in line with my team creating far more chances than the others.

My playmaker has 88 key passes but not a single assist, I can not regardless of how much I fiddle with tactics get an assist from the midfield, everything is made through the flanks. This has been the same for 3 seasons except for one where I employed long shots, this of course hurts small strikers who are restricted to long defense through balls or low crosses. I don´t even bother with anyone who can´t jump up front (the play to feet trait doesn´t really seem to work).

 

My current vertical tiki taka which is the first season I have tried has seen my conversion rate go from 7% to 10%, so something is good even though I am playing with a bit faster tempo, but the normal real life conversion rate in the premier league is about 30%, so yes, something is off. The AI is only super effective against me (32% conversion ratio), otherwise their conversion rate is also very low, currently highest being Tottenham with 11%. That is conversion rate from shots on target.

 

Maybe this is a 2038 thing? 

Edited by AurioDK
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I said in the feedback thread that the current ME often feels it's working towards creating ultra realistic stats that compare to real life rather than stats my actual tactic should create. 

So as in your case if you create lots and lots of great chances, your striker will just miss them because the ME can't allow you to get too ahead of IRL goals scored stats. 

The only place the ME falls down in creating realistic stats here is the shots on target and conversion rate. There are almost double the amount of shots on target in the current ME than IRL. If the conversion rate was 30% rather than 10%, you'd have scores of 5-7 on the regular. 

The two things above is what creates this issue IMO. 

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11 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I said in the feedback thread that the current ME often feels it's working towards creating ultra realistic stats that compare to real life rather than stats my actual tactic should create. 

So as in your case if you create lots and lots of great chances, your striker will just miss them because the ME can't allow you to get too ahead of IRL goals scored stats. 

The only place the ME falls down in creating realistic stats here is the shots on target and conversion rate. There are almost double the amount of shots on target in the current ME than IRL. If the conversion rate was 30% rather than 10%, you'd have scores of 5-7 on the regular. 

The two things above is what creates this issue IMO. 

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019249772

 

That´s what all my games look like and yet I struggle to win any game, so it becomes a masochistic endevor which in the end sees your "top" assistant manager wanting me to praise them every time. If they wanted stats to look real then they have failed in almost every regard.

 

In the game that could take me to the champions league last season I missed two penalties, had 2 goals nullified by VAR, hit the post 6 times and lost 2-3 to Bristol´s 2 shots on target. Now a days I am sort of not caring even if I win, I love FM for the stats alone at the moment, the game itself can be pleasant even if I am struggling like I did my first year in the Premier League, now it´s just like a stubborn old cow that refuses to be cow claiming it´s a cat <--- don´t know if the latter makes any sense. Just the fact that my world class keeper hasn´t saved me in a game in 4 seasons is frankly amazing.

There is only one question when I don´t have have the answer to, does the opponent score on their only chance or not. 

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6 minutes ago, AurioDK said:

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019249772

 

That´s what all my games look like and yet I struggle to win any game, so it becomes a masochistic endevor which in the end sees your "top" assistant manager wanting me to praise them every time. If they wanted stats to look real then they have failed in almost every regard.

 

In the game that could take me to the champions league last season I missed two penalties, had 2 goals nullified by VAR, hit the post 6 times and lost 2-3 to Bristol´s 2 shots on target. Now a days I am sort of not caring even if I win, I love FM for the stats alone at the moment, the game itself can be pleasant even if I am struggling like I did my first year in the Premier League, now it´s just like a stubborn old cow that refuses to be cow claiming it´s a cat <--- don´t know if the latter makes any sense. Just the fact that my world class keeper hasn´t saved me in a game in 4 seasons is frankly amazing.

There is only one question when I don´t have have the answer to, does the opponent score on their only chance or not. 

There are other issues with this ME but I'd suggest if your shot stats were closer to real life you wouldn't be as frustrated with that result or similar results. 

You've essentially had over double the amount of shots and shots on target that an average Premier league game would have IRL. 

I bet at the end of a season though you score around a realistic amount of goals. 

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2 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

There are other issues with this ME but I'd suggest if your shot stats were closer to real life you wouldn't be as frustrated with that result or similar results. 

You've essentially had over double the amount of shots and shots on target that an average Premier league game would have IRL. 

I bet at the end of a season though you score around a realistic amount of goals. 

 

The thing is that I am relating to what I am watching on the pitch in FM, not to real life stats. I can´t just watch my "world class striker" miss from point blank 5 times in every match and think "oooh, that´s how it´s supposed to be".  But even with the reduction in shot rate the latest match which I linked above still doesn´t make sense if it´s how it goes every game.

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20 minutes ago, AurioDK said:

 

The thing is that I am relating to what I am watching on the pitch in FM, not to real life stats. I can´t just watch my "world class striker" miss from point blank 5 times in every match and think "oooh, that´s how it´s supposed to be".  But even with the reduction in shot rate the latest match which I linked above still doesn´t make sense if it´s how it goes every game.

It makes sense within the context of how the current ME seems to operate. 

- It creates far too many shots and shots on target. 

- It seems to be fairly rigid in replicating a realistic amount of goals as per IRL stats (irregardless as to how many shots on target etc you actually have). 

To achieve the latter of those two it makes your striker miss millions of chances. If it didn't he'd score 70 goals every season.

Edited by kiwityke1983
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I'm yet to see 30 shots in my games on fm17 in two seasons I played. And I play with top team. For example in my last game I scored 2 goals from 5 shots on target. 

My avarage is 8,3 SOT and 17,6 shots per game.

Edited by Mitja
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1 hour ago, Mitja said:

I'm yet to see 30 shots in my games on fm17 in two seasons I played. And I play with top team. For example in my last game I scored 2 goals from 5 shots on target. 

My avarage is 8,3 SOT and 17,6 shots per game.

 

I get that most of my games where the opponent isn´t part of the top 6, those are the only interesting matches, the rest are snor feast of missed chances, either on or off target. The opponent gets 1 chance and it´s in regardless of whether I am facing Wannabe FC from the pub next door or the likes of QPR or Watford f.ex. The only ones giving me a fair fight are the top 6, they actually make my keeper work but I mostly lose the even fights due to quality ... not complaining about that. I did read what Kiwityke wrote above so I sidelined my world class striker because he apparently reached his goal quota allowed by the match engine and things have gone a little better.

 

According to Kiwityke´s theory I just have to make a tactic which doesn´t create more than 10 chances a match, that way I won´t be hurting as much.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, AurioDK said:

 

I get that most of my games where the opponent isn´t part of the top 6, those are the only interesting matches, the rest are snor feast of missed chances, either on or off target. The opponent gets 1 chance and it´s in regardless of whether I am facing Wannabe FC from the pub next door or the likes of QPR or Watford f.ex. The only ones giving me a fair fight are the top 6, they actually make my keeper work but I mostly lose the even fights due to quality ... not complaining about that. I did read what Kiwityke wrote above so I sidelined my world class striker because he apparently reached his goal quota allowed by the match engine and things have gone a little better.

 

According to Kiwityke´s theory I just have to make a tactic which doesn´t create more than 10 chances a match, that way I won´t be hurting as much.

 

 

I'm basically saying the ME is broken because we'll it's broken.

You can make tactics that mitigate this and might make it marginally more enjoyable for you. 

I'm certainly not saying it's your tactics. I'm saying it's the ME. 

Edited by kiwityke1983
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2 hours ago, Mitja said:

I'm yet to see 30 shots in my games on fm17 in two seasons I played. And I play with top team. For example in my last game I scored 2 goals from 5 shots on target. 

My avarage is 8,3 SOT and 17,6 shots per game.

Older MEs IE before FM19 has far more realistic shots and shots on target stats which were/are basically in-line with real world stats. 

Hence people don't find these as frustrating and complain that world class players miss chance after chance, because they don't essentially. 

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One question is what sort of chances are you creating? Where are the shots coming from? How many long shots? How many headers from set pieces? I am just curious if you have a rough breakdown of that.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

One question is what sort of chances are you creating? Where are the shots coming from? How many long shots? How many headers from set pieces? I am just curious if you have a rough breakdown of that.

 

The shots are varied, no real pattern other than almost everything is created using wing play. My playmaker has 88 key passes but no assists, midfield assist are more common with long shots employed but I don´t use those. Scored quite a few long throw goals, other than that my chances are mostly diagonal shots from around the penalty area or follow ups from rebounds, I have told everyone except strikers to shoot less this season.

 

I watched around 30 minutes vs Leicester whom I seem to get the most chances against just to get a picture. 52 vs 5 overall chances.  I wrote it down somewhere to make a rant here but threw that away, some 15 from outside the box and the rest from inside, lots of diagonal shots, headers and rebounds were on top, I did win that game 2-1 and their keeper made a 7,8.

Since I was fighting for a CL spot I ditched my world class striker, went extremely defensive and took off attack on 3 of the 4 players, most are on support duties now. I have only played 5 games since yesterday due to time restraint but won them all comfortably while having far fewer chances, around 14-15 in each match. Unfortunately I got fed up with the ME so I am not watching the match anymore, can´t really say how they are scoring ... but they are, mostly winger goals atm. From being totally out of the CL race I am in again because Liverpool lost 5 games in a row. Tactic is still a regular 4-4-2 with mostly the same instructions, just two DMCs instead of 2 MCs and passing one notch up to make up for the lack of midfield support.

 

I coach Juniors (14-16) here in Odense, Denmark. It´s far easier as they actually follow plans to the letter  .... :). Anyway, time to watch real life Liverpool-A. Madrid.

 

PS: Late addition as I decided to continue while watching the Liverpool match to finish the season. Things reverted to playing against keepers, lost 0-1 on aggregate to O. Marseille in the Euro Cup semifinals with a 22-3 on target statistic, made the mistake of putting my world class striker back on the team and he missed 6 one on ones, 3 in the first game and 3 in the next (just watched the highlights after the match). Then lost the last game of the season 0-4 to M. City where they had 4 shots on target, granted, I only had 6 or 7. Still got my CL spot as the other top teams faced each other in the end and were bound to lose points. So yes, I strongly believe quotas are in place to prevent goal scoring, your tactics only matter as counter measures which means that if you don´t apply what the AI thinks is a counter measure then you can have all the "one on one´s" in the world and it won´t do you any good. 

Edited by AurioDK
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2 hours ago, AurioDK said:

My playmaker has 88 key passes but no assists,

Key passes to wide channels so players can cross?

And thanks for the detailed reply, let's me understand much better what you see so I can compare to my own observations. I think there are definitely too many shots on target in the game right now.

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11 hours ago, Senhordoutor said:

Instead of making a really long reply explaining what is happening to you I'll instead leave a link which will hopefuly shed some light on this matter:

 

Let me know your thoughs

 

I have seen it before, he talks more about the overall frustration of various factors which determine success or failure claiming that nothing is guaranteed, which is true but he doesn´t address specifics. He does make the bold statement of stating "realism" within FM which I find to be absolute bullocks.

 

When I coach my Juniors in real life and prepare for match day things are very different than anything FM has to offer and things aren´t that much different in the Senior team with a few major exceptions. I have however never seen anyone complacent, even if we are winning 15-0 in a pre season match I expect the subs to give their max in order to perhaps start next game, I don´t need to do team talks for that.

 The 3 main aspects to master are cohesion, fluidity and team work in order to have a fully functioning unit while constantly correcting the flaws. The main objective of the offense is to create chances which is my main gripe, I do, too many in fact but it most often results in a frustrating experience of not understanding why the strikers aren´t converting, watching the match engine gives no clues as you are creating the chances needed and the strikers are getting into the expected positions. This is normal in some games, but not if it becomes a constant feature of the game.

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22 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Older MEs IE before FM19 has far more realistic shots and shots on target stats which were/are basically in-line with real world stats. 

Hence people don't find these as frustrating and complain that world class players miss chance after chance, because they don't essentially. 

Yes. I think the biggest problem is in games between hard favourites and underdogs where teams play with extreme tactics - attacking and defensive. That's where crazy stats appear. Games between two more balanced tactics produce more realistic stats. 

Use of ultra defensive formation, defensive mentality, too many defensive duties and too defensive instructions and vice versa for att team creates strange games with strange stats where for example defensive teams can easily outpass attacking without firing a single shot on goal. Narrow defending has taken it to another level where play is channeled to the flanks. Hopefully we'll see some improvements here. What needs to be done is that particular style plays what is supposed to because currently it's the opposite - defensive football controls possession and attacking produces very direct fast counterattacking football. But I wouldn't hold my breath since this issue is as old as 2D.

Edited by Mitja
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I use an attacking tactic with both AML and AMR as trequartista, and both DR and DL as automatic duty so that I can customize everything. All these wide players are set to cross less and cut in. 
I reach to create a good football with also good amount of goals. 

It is an far away from solid tactic but it is want I want: I prefer lost 5-2 than made a 0-0. So I can made sometime great result against bigger team (6-2 to barca in CL)  or easily lost (the same year I finished last in the CL group). 

In the national league I won the title for the last 5 year (Hungary ). 

As I said I like the football I say (obviously there are game my TQ doesn't work and my team play bad, but it's natural). 

My issue is the type of goal. 

As I said, I play with all the wide player with less cross, my TI is to make low cross. 

Despite that more the 50% of my goal are with a header. 

So I can I have a striker with 17 in finish/composure and he miss more goal with feet that with head (with 12 header) while, imho, should be easier score with feet even if a player a 15 finishing and 20 header. 

 

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2021703022

 

I guess it´s in order to state when things are going well instead of just ranting, from the results above I can pretty much say that things have been fabulous in my 6th season in the premier league. My tactics havn´t changed, the players are for the most part the same and the Premier League stats look identical to the other seasons, the only difference is that my keeper has actually saved me in 4 games that mattered this season, otherwise he keeps getting his 6,8s.

The only changes I made was changing captain, the old one moved on and the team got 1 year older, most are around 22-26 now.

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