5-2-3 Wide (with a difference)

[rootcoors]

Anyone played with a tactic similar to this before?

I am trying to create something a little different that offers me protection at the back when needed but the WB's still push up attacking (they are not good in the standard WB position - hence this somewhat strange variation). Just wondered if anyone else had done similar?

Any tips or suggestions for roles and tactical style are welcome.

I've not played a game yet, I am tweaking this between seasons, ready to test in pre-season - so very much a work in progress.

[XuluBak]

I tried 3313 and 343 in beta, using actual WBs. The WB to WB connections were fantastic, and quite effective, but the ME has changed far too drastically to provide any real insights from what I was doing; although, I think playing and distributing to the flanks would still be very relevant. 

I don't think the above tactic would be very effective for long. AF/IF(a)x2 is overkill. Add to that both FBs trying to get to the byline and a B2B trying to arrive late." With your remaining midfielder being a DLP-S, you're begging to get hit on the counter. Sure, you've got three back, but there's barely a speed bump between the other penalty box and your own. On the other hand, how are you going to break down a team sitting back against you?  Your attack seems very dependent on space. Who's supposed to be creating it?

[melogroovy]

I play very similar to this.  At work so I can't do screenies.  I started with Newcastle as a 5-4-1 switched to your formation and now play with WB.

Base tactic is Attacking

My current tactic evolved from this at Newcastle.

I have the striker as a PFs

one IF is set to IW both are on attack

I moved the FB to WB and set to support

GK is a sweeper keeper on support.

I also moved my DLP to an RPM on support

My base tactic is custom gegenpress and always Attacking.

I have a base tactic in the slots and I make adjustments as to how I want to play my opponent on a game by game basis.

I'm at work so I can't do screenies.

I'm semi-fanatical about clean sheets and currently have Newcastle in 5th in the first season, no xfers in first window, 30 games played.

I think the ME is playing very nice football ATM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, rootcoors said:

 

2 hours ago, rootcoors said:

Any tips or suggestions for roles and tactical style are welcome

I can only tell you what I personally would change from the perspective of my tactical approach.

But before that, you need to tell me what style of football you are looking to play? Your in-possession and in-transition team instructions suggest you want to play fast football, probably counter-attacking more than gung-ho attacking style, but I am not sure. So I have to wait for your reply.

[rootcoors]

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

I can only tell you what I personally would change from the perspective of my tactical approach.

But before that, you need to tell me what style of football you are looking to play? Your in-possession and in-transition team instructions suggest you want to play fast football, probably counter-attacking more than gung-ho attacking style, but I am not sure. So I have to wait for your reply.

You've basically hit the nail on the head...

I want to defend well and hit teams on the counter.

When in possession I want to move the ball quickly and get my 3 forward players and potentially the BBM to run onto balls as they all have good pace. Ideally I want to have 3 kind of up top and the wing backs bolting forward, this is the idea of the IF-A's with the WB-A's

When defending I want to be a unit, I'm less worried about pressing, I want the players back into their positions and then aim to get the ball back - this is why I have gone for re-group over counter-press. I want them to do this quickly to press when they are back in position, or heading into position this is why I also added More Urgent.

I also want to play more structured, with less freedom, this is why currently I have tried to avoid fluid and flexible and also stayed balanced.

Lastly where possible I want to avoid shooting from too far out, but I am not totally against it, this is why I have not said to work into box etc...

Since my post I have only played one game, we won 6-0, however it was only a friendly (first of pre-season), that said we did appear to play as I have explained above - but its too early to tell what tweaks are needed, however your advice (as always) is invaluable.

Have attached some hopefully helpful screenshot's from that game - but like I said it is early days.

Thanks.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, rootcoors said:

ou've basically hit the nail on the head...

I want to defend well and hit teams on the counter

Okay. If so, here is how I would tweak the tactic to make it more balanced and defensively solid while still keeping enough attacking byte:

AF/PFat

IFsu                                         Wat

DLPsu     CAR

WBat   CDde  CDco  BPDde   WBsu

GK/SKde

Now, your setup is no longer one-dimensional on the flanks, so you are attacking with more variety and - consequently - less predictability. It is also more solid defensively, because now you don't have all wide players on attack duty. They are still attack-minded by virtue of their roles, but not to an extent that would leave the flanks so overly exposed (and without any logical reason btw). In this context, the BBM is changed into a carrilero as a role that is more specialized in covering the flank while still offering more than enough support attacking-wise.

1 hour ago, rootcoors said:

When defending I want to be a unit, I'm less worried about pressing, I want the players back into their positions and then aim to get the ball back - this is why I have gone for re-group over counter-press. I want them to do this quickly to press when they are back in position, or heading into position this is why I also added More Urgent

I would solve it in a very simple way - by removing both the Regroup and more urgent pressing. You do not need either regroup or counter-press. What you need is good compactness in defense. For that reason - and taking the counter-attacking style you want to play - I would drop the line of engagement to lower. It will not only make you more compact when defending (especially as your formation lacks a DM), but also create more space for your forwards to take advantage of on the counter.

Basically, you need just 3 starting team instructions for what you are trying to achieve (besides the mentality, for which the Balanced is a good choice for starters):

- higher tempo in possession

- counter in transition (may not even be necessary all the time)

- and lower LOE out of possession

These are the only instructions I would start most matches with. Others would be small in-match tweaks.

These tweaks - depending on what you observe during a match - include:

- overlap right and/or pass into space in possession (not necessarily both at the same time)

- distribute to CBs and FBs and/or distribute quickly in transition (again, not necessarily both at the same time)

- get stuck in out of possession (be careful with this one for fouls and yellow/red cards)

Optionally, if you have a central midfielder that is good at tackling, anticipation and decisions (and not too aggressive), you can tell him to tackle harder (PI) instead of using the Get stuck in team instruction.

Make these tweaks gradually and only when it really makes sense based on what you see on the pitch. Don't do anything just for the sake of doing it. Watch how your players behave and tweak accordingly.

If you have any questions, please let me know 

 

[rootcoors]

accidental post.

Edited February 25, 2020 by rootcoors

[rootcoors]

5 hours ago, XuluBak said:

I tried 3313 and 343 in beta, using actual WBs. The WB to WB connections were fantastic, and quite effective, but the ME has changed far too drastically to provide any real insights from what I was doing; although, I think playing and distributing to the flanks would still be very relevant. 

I don't think the above tactic would be very effective for long. AF/IF(a)x2 is overkill. Add to that both FBs trying to get to the byline and a B2B trying to arrive late." With your remaining midfielder being a DLP-S, you're begging to get hit on the counter. Sure, you've got three back, but there's barely a speed bump between the other penalty box and your own. On the other hand, how are you going to break down a team sitting back against you?  Your attack seems very dependent on space. Who's supposed to be creating it?

Thank-you for the feedback. Fully understand what you're saying - will digest the comments, valid question on who is creating the space.

[rootcoors]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay. If so, here is how I would tweak the tactic to make it more balanced and defensively solid while still keeping enough attacking byte:

AF/PFat

IFsu                                         Wat

DLPsu     CAR

WBat   CDde  CDco  BPDde   WBsu

GK/SKde

Now, your setup is no longer one-dimensional on the flanks, so you are attacking with more variety and - consequently - less predictability. It is also more solid defensively, because now you don't have all wide players on attack duty. They are still attack-minded by virtue of their roles, but not to an extent that would leave the flanks so overly exposed (and without any logical reason btw). In this context, the BBM is changed into a carrilero as a role that is more specialized in covering the flank while still offering more than enough support attacking-wise.

I would solve it in a very simple way - by removing both the Regroup and more urgent pressing. You do not need either regroup or counter-press. What you need is good compactness in defense. For that reason - and taking the counter-attacking style you want to play - I would drop the line of engagement to lower. It will not only make you more compact when defending (especially as your formation lacks a DM), but also create more space for your forwards to take advantage of on the counter.

Basically, you need just 3 starting team instructions for what you are trying to achieve (besides the mentality, for which the Balanced is a good choice for starters):

- higher tempo in possession

- counter in transition (may not even be necessary all the time)

- and lower LOE out of possession

These are the only instructions I would start most matches with. Others would be small in-match tweaks.

These tweaks - depending on what you observe during a match - include:

- overlap right and/or pass into space in possession (not necessarily both at the same time)

- distribute to CBs and FBs and/or distribute quickly in transition (again, not necessarily both at the same time)

- get stuck in out of possession (be careful with this one for fouls and yellow/red cards)

Optionally, if you have a central midfielder that is good at tackling, anticipation and decisions (and not too aggressive), you can tell him to tackle harder (PI) instead of using the Get stuck in team instruction.

Make these tweaks gradually and only when it really makes sense based on what you see on the pitch. Don't do anything just for the sake of doing it. Watch how your players behave and tweak accordingly.

If you have any questions, please let me know 

 

Thank-you for the feedback - all makes sense, and I understand the rationale behind what you are saying too.

Will digest it and create a tactic in slot 2 around what you're suggesting so I can compare them side by side, will also take note of the 'tweaks' too.

Appreciate the advice.

[rootcoors]

5 hours ago, melogroovy said:

I play very similar to this.  At work so I can't do screenies.  I started with Newcastle as a 5-4-1 switched to your formation and now play with WB.

Base tactic is Attacking

My current tactic evolved from this at Newcastle.

I have the striker as a PFs

one IF is set to IW both are on attack

I moved the FB to WB and set to support

GK is a sweeper keeper on support.

I also moved my DLP to an RPM on support

My base tactic is custom gegenpress and always Attacking.

I have a base tactic in the slots and I make adjustments as to how I want to play my opponent on a game by game basis.

I'm at work so I can't do screenies.

I'm semi-fanatical about clean sheets and currently have Newcastle in 5th in the first season, no xfers in first window, 30 games played.

I think the ME is playing very nice football ATM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank-you for this, also very helpful.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, rootcoors said:

Thank-you for the feedback - all makes sense, and I understand the rationale behind what you are saying too.

Will digest it and create a tactic in slot 2 around what you're suggesting so I can compare them side by side, will also take note of the 'tweaks' too.

Appreciate the advice.

Just one small (potential) correction to the setup of roles and duties I proposed: in this particular system, I think the central CB would make more sense on stopper duty than cover. 

There are a couple other possible tweaks, but we can discuss them when you test the tactic and report back (in case you notice any issues).