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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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Posted (edited)
2 ore fa, GunmaN1905 ha scritto:

Hopefully there are no more "new features" in FM21, just fix the ME and AI behavior when it comes to transfers and that's it.
Would be a perfect game.

:thup:

and I would even like to see most realistic newgens development and faces.

Edited by ParanoidBuddha

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12 hours ago, KUBI said:

It's not my game and no, I don't think that FM18 was the better game. There are issues with the ME, but for all the other parts I think FM 20 is the best version so far. 

Perhaps the solution is go back to the 18 ME and do better for next year.

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Posted (edited)

Why  do players retire at the age of 27/28, after being without a club for a single season??? 3 players on my shortlist retired in march, not a long time before teams would start hiring people for the new season.

One of them was supposed to me my new starting GK, one of them my new starting towering DC. They knew there was at least one team interested in them, and of course there is no option to try and talk them out of their choice, because why would there be any useful conversation options? Oh, I'm sorry, I meant one besides the "Praise training" option which you have to laboriously visit periodically. Oh, and maybe a warning that people on my shortlist are planning to retire? Nah.

I've promised it 2 or 3 times this year already, but now I am done with this game for real, every single aspect gets ruined by something, nothing brings you joy while you are trudging through this collection of chores called a manager game. Team building was the last thing that I was moderately enjoying, now all the time I've spent on planning the next offseason was for nothing.

Edited by Glen_Runciter
Please do not bypass the swear filter

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17 minutes ago, Armistice said:

One of the reasons this game has gone to ****. This obsessive crusade to replicate real life stats.

Not at all. You cant complain there are too many set pieces in the ME if its what is happening in real life, its a simulation to replicate real life. Its the modern game. 

I asked a genuine question. One of the biggest problems I find here is people saying too much of this and not enough of that without checking what has really been happening in football over the last 5-10 years.            

There are a number of issues within the ME but the way to resolve it is to log with examples and detail what you feel should happen and why. I always think sometimes that some people would not notice some of things if they dont find out here in the forum         

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Armistice said:

This obsessive crusade to replicate real life stats.

Depends on which kind of stats you look at. I can see them failing in replicating real life stats when you look at the most obvious things like possession (far too compressed and often not really logical given a team's quality), lack of goals per match in the Top 5 Leagues (on average 10 to 25 percent less compared to real life; just take a look at the league tables and scorer lists …), disproportionate high passing percentages for low quality teams compared to technical powerhouses, way too many woodwork hits, excessive amounts of assists via crosses and headers by short players, lack of central play (in real life teams spend 2 to 3 out of 10 of their time in the centre of the pitch when in possession -- take a look at WhoScored's OPTA stats representation; in FM it's more like 0.5 to 2 out of 10 -- that's disappointing). All this stuff has been part of FM19, too, but nothing changed although people reported the issues.

The only positive thing in this direction are the recent fixes made to penalties. Thumbs up for this even though it took many months. 

They might be obsessed with replicating certain aspects of real life stats, but those are the easy ones which doesn't require high efforts which is understandable. But it certainly helps creating the illusion of real life stats replication.

Edited by gonefading

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29 minutes ago, gonefading said:

Depends on which kind of stats you look at. I can see them failing in replicating real life stats when you look at the most obvious things like possession (far too compressed and often not really logical given a team's quality), lack of goals per match in the Top 5 Leagues (on average 10 to 25 percent less compared to real life; just take a look at the league tables and scorer lists …), disproportionate high passing percentages for low quality teams compared to technical powerhouses, way too many woodwork hits, excessive amounts of assists via crosses and headers by short players, lack of central play (in real life teams spend 2 to 3 out of 10 of their time in the centre of the pitch when in possession -- take a look at WhoScored's OPTA stats representation; in FM it's more like 0.5 to 2 out of 10 -- that's disappointing). All this stuff has been part of FM19, too, but nothing changed although people reported the issues.

The only positive thing in this direction are the recent fixes made to penalties. Thumbs up for this even though it took many months. 

They might be obsessed with replicating certain aspects of real life stats, but those are the easy ones which doesn't require high efforts which is understandable. But it certainly helps creating the illusion of real life stats replication.

I think this is why people obsess over set piece goals because the ME is just tediously boring to watch. There is almost no joy to be had from it and winning or losing because of a set piece or the other favourite complaint a 40 yard wonder goal just sticks out in your memory far more than it does on other better versions of the ME where exciting attacking moves happen regularly. Where you feel like your tactical choices have an effect (I accidentally played 12 games on ultra defensive instead of attacking mentality and I honestly didn't notice a single difference, I still had 15-25 shots every game and won or lost 1-0) 

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54 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

End of pre season... My main striker scored 4 goals... My left full back scored 9 :seagull:

This is a good example of why things can get misconstrued because you haven't detailed any facts.

e.g. does the left take penalties, direct free kicks. Could be many reasons ....

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1 hour ago, LucasBR said:

End of pre season... My main striker scored 4 goals... My left full back scored 9 :seagull:

Yeah I've gone back to FM18 where strikers and forwards scored most the goals . I love FM20 but I'm afraid its lost its way at this time . FM19 I thought was bad as well but this versions something is just off with ME .

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31 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

This is a good example of why things can get misconstrued because you haven't detailed any facts.

e.g. does the left take penalties, direct free kicks. Could be many reasons ....

Main striker 32 shots - 4 goals

Left full back 42 shots - 9 goals

4 of these 42 shots were direct free kicks and pens...

7 minutes ago, prot651 said:

Yeah I've gone back to FM18 where strikers and forwards scored most the goals . I love FM20 but I'm afraid its lost its way at this time . FM19 I thought was bad as well but this versions something is just off with ME .

I love FM20, it's one of the best versions ever made, the only problem is the ME is sometimes very disappointing... I really hope that SI will focus on the ME and deliver to us the best FM ever.

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Have to agree that the focus going forward should really be on the ME and existing features rather than anything completely new. I actually have enjoyed the FM20 ME personally although I concede I have limited experience having only had one save where I've managed one club throughout which also means I've had certain in built advantages when it comes to familiarity and squad dynamics as well. I also really enjoy the other aspects of the game that aren't tactical and would even be happy with the game leaning more and more towards these as a tool to succeed. Still though, the ME is definitely lagging way behind the rest of the game in terms of quality in my eyes, and although I'm not overly concerned with how the ME works from my perspective (and I am more than happy with my purchase and consider FM20 the best game in the series), the AI in the game has long been the area that I've most wanted to see improvement and I think an improved ME would definitely be the biggest step towards achieving that.

One thing I feel is overlooked in this year's ME though is the improvement when it comes to animations and the football actually looking realistic. There may be issues with seeing visual representations of what you're trying to achieve with certain tactics and an over representation of certain goal types but the football itself is far more convincing than in the past. There's still the odd thing that stands out as bizarre (like players keeping the ball in only to run off the field of play and gift their attack an easy chance for example) but they're a much rarer occurrence than in previous FMs.

I also think that there have been big improvements this year to things like staff (particularly their reports and variable ability) and dynamics, which were already part of the game, and with Club Vision being brand new and with definite room for improvement (to be clear I love this feature overall and didn't expect it to be perfect when initially introduced), I'd really love to see a huge focus on trying to perfect this area of the game for FM21. For me Club Vision is the sort of thing I've always wanted, more of a focus on long term club development and goals outside of the football itself, and this is the area where improvements are going to most improve my own experience with the game.

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1 hour ago, yandex said:

Why are there so damn many shots and shots on target between the teams in this game?

I play a conservative, balanced tactic. My games average 15 shots on target between the two teams.

Shots on target in real life for the Premier League(which I'm playing) is about 9.

It's not uncommon in FM20 to see "shots on target" stat being something outrageous like 10-9 or 15-9, something which would be exceedingly rare in real life.

Goalkeepers have to be absolute heroes every single game to keep the score realistic. Oh, and the attacking teams obviously have to bottle a ton of chances. Which they do.

I've said it before, but the most fun I've had in this year's game is playing a boring 0-0 with "shots on target" being a realistic 3-2. Unfortunately, I replicate this about once per season. But it's such a relief to have a game with about 5 "extended highlights" as opposed to 15 with 10 of them being from set pieces on the edge of the box, with three of them being headed in by a some tiny player.

When I play Man City I crave to see some tap-ins from low crosses/passes and cutbacks. But like every team in this game, their path to goals and success is from set pieces and long shots. They don't "feel" like Man City. There's zero difference in the feeling when playing Brighton or playing Man City. Yes, City create more chances(highlights every 5 minutes). But it's all set pieces and headers.

I have periods of having a great time in this game, but ultimately the match engine experience ruins it every single time. Typically what urges me to take a break from the game is seeing 4 identical set piece goals(taken from edges of box and headed in) in the same game.

Where have you checked you real life stats

Premiership stats so far this season

Highest shots per game average = Man City 19.8 

Lowest shots per game average = Palace 9.9

I wonder if its the highlights that could be the issue rather than the stats

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2 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Where have you checked you real life stats

Premiership stats so far this season

Highest shots per game average = Man City 19.8 

Lowest shots per game average = Palace 9.9

I wonder if its the highlights that could be the issue rather than the stats

I was talking about shots on TARGET.

 

Shots are a different story, however also way too high in the game.

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2 minutes ago, yandex said:

I was talking about shots on TARGET.

 

Shots are a different story, however also way too high in the game.

ahh OK, my mistake

so season 18/19 shots on target averages

Man City 6.8 (highest)

Brighton 2.8 (lowest)

Not looked across multiple seasons but yes your stats suggest an issue worth looking at

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

ahh OK, my mistake

so season 18/19 shots on target averages

Man City 6.8 (highest)

Brighton 2.8 (lowest)

Not looked across multiple seasons but yes your stats suggest an issue worth looking at

 

All good :-)

 

Also, my "9" average is referring to the stat between the two teams. So that there is a total of 9 shots on target in the game combining the attempts of both teams. So it could look something like "6-3" etc..

I don't have the latest data, I think 9 is from 2013. All I know is that FM forces goalkeepers into heroic performances frequently ;-) - or the finishing is outright too awful.

Edited by yandex

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4 minutes ago, yandex said:

 

All good :-)

 

Also, my "9" average is referring to the stat between the two teams. So that there is a total of 9 shots on target in the game combining the attempts of both teams. So it could look something like "6-3" etc..

I don't have the latest data, I think 9 is from 2013. All I know is that FM forces goalkeepers into heroic performances frequently ;-) - or the finishing is outright too awful.

I rarely see goalkeepers play above 6.9. Pellegri has banged in 28 in 26(1) so far this season for me as my lone ST.

??

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1 minute ago, Tyburn said:

I rarely see goalkeepers play above 6.9. Pellegri has banged in 28 in 26(1) so far this season for me as my lone ST.

??

They get poor ratings but they regularly make 10+ saves which is extremely rare.

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4 minutes ago, likesiamesefish said:

They get poor ratings but they regularly make 10+ saves which is extremely rare.

It’s extremely rare for MY goalie to make 10+ saves ;) 

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1 minute ago, Tyburn said:

It’s extremely rare for MY goalie to make 10+ saves ;) 

Haha, I know what you mean but I regularly see the opposition keeper do it even though I am more than happy with my goal tallies.

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Posted (edited)

Re SOT:

It's all fine Looking at SOT stats, but the biggest difference to football will likely still be the amount from genuingelly open play (typically in some space) vs set piece (on average a pressured Header). I've seen loads of matches in way prior editions already where teams had like a dozen+ SOT with barely a goal --  but looking at those shots, this rarely disappointed in that regard… 

In balancing, this needs to be treated separately, no less as set pieces have their own distinct attacking / defending Settings -- plus, a set piece to simplify is the result of an open Play move beforehand "defended". Plus, that pressured Header would see the keeper in a lot better Position on average than from a tap-in after a move actually wrong-footing him. Plus, you may not notice else whether it's too easy to get shots off set pieces.

Edited by Svenc

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The player ratings lack the individual aspect most of the time. A player will rather get a good rating because of his team winning even though he pulls off a nightmare performance. I think the rating system is in need of an overhaul. Inspirational sources are out there: For example WhoScored and SofaScore. Weighting the ratings of in-game situations should actually be easy for SI as they have all the tools they need to accomplish a more organic rating system.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I can promise you, it's exactly the same ME (because you can check what ME it's using in the options, and both the normal and public beta ME's are the same engine and patch number). You're purely experiencing a placebo effect, but if it means you're enjoying the game more, that's fine :thup:

Placebo effect - haha. Ok - I'll take your word for it. Suppose it could be coincidental that at the exact point I made the change, everything just clicked and well-worked goals started flying in all over the place - from AI teams as well as myself. Haaland's just got POTM after scoring 12 in his last 5 for me including 3 hattricks. I'm in season 4 and had nothing close to those figures beforehand...

Good with me whatever the reason anyway.

Edited by Marcussy

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7 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Not at all. You cant complain there are too many set pieces in the ME if its what is happening in real life, its a simulation to replicate real life. Its the modern game. 

Although set pieces are a critical part of attacking, they are not working as intended in FM20, you have to think. The same goes for crossing. If you go watch the goals from a round of games in your league, most goals will come from a cross, an indirect free kick or a corner. I point out that this happens in AI vs AI matches as well because this controls for the user tactics (or AI tactics also suck). This, coupled with the lack of proper midfield attacking play, and you have people unhappy with the ME. If you get chance go back to the FM19. This ME was pretty much disliked too, but it is definitely superior to FM20 (although the FM20 graphics engine is beautiful). 

The problem with reproducing stats is that the current ME does not seem to do so, at least in the saves I have played. I checked goals through 3 rounds of Serie A at one point (I have the numbers handy). 

20 goals from crosses. 4 from corners, 5 from indirect free kicks. 

5 through balls, 4 passes

This balance feels wrong. I would be shocked if this replicates real life. 

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Posted (edited)

Is it normal a player increasing 10 points PA during a save?

Edited by Razor940

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50 minutes ago, Razor940 said:

Is it normal a player increasing 10 points PA during a save?

Player PAs aren't dynamic, though? Maybe you just saw the wrong number the first time? 

Especially given its a 10 point differential. 

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41 minutos atrás, MatthewS17 disse:

Player PAs aren't dynamic, though? Maybe you just saw the wrong number the first time? 

Especially given its a 10 point differential. 

I was pretty sure I saw correctly so I loaded a save 4 years before and he had 178 PA. Loaded the actual save again and it says 188. This happened to me some FMs ago where I had a guy with 144 and then it was 155.

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1 hour ago, Razor940 said:

Is it normal a player increasing 10 points PA during a save?

Once a save starts, PA cannot increase.  It can change between saves but not in a save.

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Agora, FrazT disse:

Once a save starts, PA cannot increase.  It can change between saves but not in a save.

But it changed.

unknown.png?width=887&height=499

unknown.png?width=887&height=499

 

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I cant explain what has happened but you are using a third party editor that is not supported and we have been told multiple times that PA cannot increase naturally once a save is started.

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18 minutos atrás, FrazT disse:

I cant explain what has happened but you are using a third party editor that is not supported and we have been told multiple times that PA cannot increase naturally once a save is started.

Yeah I know that that's why I'm shocked, maybe some error in the game? Its the only player that I see that changed PA. Can't check on Genie tho.

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6 hours ago, glenjamin said:

Is anyone put off buying FM21 as a result of FM20? For the first time in 15 years I'm leaning towards not buying it. I remember back in the late 2000s/early 2010s I would pre order the game and ensure I'd be pretty much waiting outside the games shop the morning the game would be released in order to buy it and rush home to play it. Then I started waiting until around January to buy the game after a couple of patches had been released, and now it seems if you want to properly enjoy the game you got to wait until March until after the release of the final main patch. And at that point you can buy the game for half the initial release price. I actually Googled Championship Manager 4 the other day and thought about downloading it just because I wanted to play something. Yet FM20 is sitting there on my desktop and I just have zero interest in it. 

I've bought CM 98/99 and every iteration of this game till now (excepted FM 18, year my son was born, and i tried, unsuccessfully, to liberate me some free time). I love this game and i'm very thankful to SI for making it. This year game would be the best one if not fore the ME. It's ok to mess up some times so i will  buy FM 21 (maybe not pre-ordering tho). But if the ME is not visibly remodeled and is still a mess, it will probably be my last.

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Can anyone tell me how 3 at the back plays this year? Do the wide CBs push up in possession to recycle the ball and act as psuedo-fullbacks in attack? Do they defend the wide spaces to cover their marauding wingbacks? Do the wingbacks push out to close down the wings or do they sit in a narrow 5 across which no team actually does in reality? Related to that, do the central mids have to close down the wings because the wingbacks refuse to?

Would love to know if any of these issues have been looked at this year, as 3 at the back has played nothing like reality for quite some time now.

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Posted (edited)
On 01/03/2020 at 16:42, kiwityke1983 said:

They are pointless fluff in the face of the awful ME though. The ME ruins the game and makes FM20 the worst version we've had for years. To the point I gave up playing a month ago.

 

This^ It feels like the emphasis has been placed firmly on other aspects of the game because they are easy wins compared to the effort required to significantly improve the ME. As you say, if the ME isn't up to scratch for me the rest of the frills become redundant. 

For me personally, FM20 has left a sour taste in the mouth. The ME has regressed and despite adding some new features that could add real value the delivery has been very slack, initially and even now on the latest version with the silly errors like the inability to turn off the first window. I'm sat at 900 hrs played, all on a dummy save because the game just hasn't reached a point where I want to invest in a full on save. The first time in ages I have not taken a release of the game to 2,3 or even 4000 hrs. 

Edited by janrzm

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As of now i feel the Matches we see in FM and Matches we see on TV are not close enough. The Goals should be earned rather than given which is what i feel is happening in the game. I trust SI to fix them and i hope we see some open play goal scoring become normal like it was pre FM 19 (FM 18 and before) rather than once in a while like now. 

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8 hours ago, Razor940 said:

But it changed.

unknown.png?width=887&height=499

unknown.png?width=887&height=499

 

Did you also notice that the player is 3 tears older in the second view.

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22 minutos atrás, Hazpro disse:

Did you also notice that the player is 3 tears older in the second view.

Because I checked in a old version of the save and in the actual timeline.

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21 minutes ago, Razor940 said:

Because I checked in a old version of the save and in the actual timeline.

Well thats why his stats are different ???

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14 minutes ago, Hazpro said:

Well thats why his stats are different ???

As said, the user is getting the information for an unofficial unsupported editor that we do not recommend using with the game. It's not something we test and is liable to cause all kinds of problems with FM, including potential issues like the one seen here.

Please do not discuss the use of this program on these forums. Thanks. 

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I was kind of expecting 20.3.1 today since all transfer windows are basically closed by now... :D

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32 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said:

I was kind of expecting 20.3.1 today since all transfer windows are basically closed by now... :D

Whilst we're compiling the gathered data from the closed window, as always this takes time. Likewise so does testing all the changes. As with all updates, as soon as it's ready we'll look to release it. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Whilst we're compiling the gathered data from the closed window, as always this takes time. Likewise so does testing all the changes. As with all updates, as soon as it's ready we'll look to release it. 

Hmmmm a Friday release then :P

*Take your time, if it means a bit more to add also as many ME improvements as possible then that's awesome

Edited by Jimmious7

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I'm seeing a number of goals scored from deep free-kicks, played over to a free header in the back post area by a centre-back - I've not touched my tactical set up for set pieces yet either, so not sure why it's so prolific.

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

Whilst we're compiling the gathered data from the closed window, as always this takes time. Likewise so does testing all the changes. As with all updates, as soon as it's ready we'll look to release it. 

Are you and the team hoping to include a new ME?

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