I need your help guys!

[W-Walton]

Three seasons in I'm stuck and need to see over my tactics and strategies.

I'v been playing a 4-4-2 but most teams/the computer have exposed my tactics and I need to renew.
So far I have decided to go with following tactic (see pictures). And my questions is , is there something that doesn't match up well and what would you suggest, using this formation/tactic.

- One thing I'm tinking about is setting one of the AP's to attack. And bot of them to "roam from position".

All help I could get is much appreciated.

Thanks, Walton.

Edited February 16, 2020 by W-Walton

[llama3]

A few thoughts:

• You have all attack duties up front, all trying to play in the centre - not sure where the width is really coming from, or the variation in attack.
• I'd say 2 x AP(s) and a BWM(d) is a very aggressive midfield which won't offer as much protection. 
• I'm not clear why you are trying to distribute quickly and play with a higher tempo, yet at the same time underlapping and work the ball into the box. It looks like there is a confusion of styles - are you trying to play quickly and exposing space, or trying to play possession football? 

[W-Walton]

27 minutes ago, llama3 said:

A few thoughts:

• You have all attack duties up front, all trying to play in the centre - not sure where the width is really coming from, or the variation in attack.
• I'd say 2 x AP(s) and a BWM(d) is a very aggressive midfield which won't offer as much protection. 
• I'm not clear why you are trying to distribute quickly and play with a higher tempo, yet at the same time underlapping and work the ball into the box. It looks like there is a confusion of styles - are you trying to play quickly and exposing space, or trying to play possession football? 

Thanks for your input.

• Do you believe that it's to heavy with the attacking up front? What do you mean with "not sure where the width is really coming from"?
• Would it be better with 1 AP(s), 1 DLP(s) and 1 BWM(d) in the center?
• Distribute quickly is just because i feel there are openings in the field that you could take advantage of, before the opponent covers up with their formation. Wether or not you're looking to counter or set up plays. 
• Higher tempo is something I feel that suits my technical players. And that they are capable of playing it. And if i play at a normal/slow pace I tend to loose the ball by being pressed.
• I'm not looking for a pure high possession football nor direct play. Probably something in between or a mix of it.

edit; and the underlap is for the inside forward and the inverted winger.

Edited February 16, 2020 by W-Walton

[llama3]

25 minutes ago, W-Walton said:

Thanks for your input.

• Do you believe that it's to heavy with the attacking up front? What do you mean with "not sure where the width is really coming from"?
• Would it be better with 1 AP(s), 1 DLP(s) and 1 BWM(d) in the center?
• Distribute quickly is just because i feel there are openings in the field that you could take advantage of, before the opponent covers up with their formation. Wether or not you're looking to counter or set up plays. 
• Higher tempo is something I feel that suits my technical players. And that they are capable of playing it. And if i play at a normal/slow pace I tend to loose the ball by being pressed.
• I'm not looking for a pure high possession football nor direct play. Probably something in between or a mix of it.

edit; and the underlap is for the inside forward and the inverted winger.

• All 3 x attacking players on attack duty, all coming into the central area of the pitch means they are all essentially trying to do the same thing - dribble and score - nobody is making runs or space for each other, or creating for each other. At least one of these players needs to be on a support duty. A poacher is not always a good role for a lone forward - his teamwork isn't great and doesn't link up so well. If you had for example wingers creating for him (I'm not suggesting it, I'm illustrating the example) it would be less of an issue as you'd need someone to stick in the centre. However, choosing the right roles and duties is really dependent on what style of play you are trying to achieve...
• See above - the "right" combination depends on your style of play. You've indicated that you like to play with a good tempo and exploit space - a good strategy in itself. You can either do this by counter-attacking (sit deep, then attack the vacated space) or by pressing high up and using a Gegenpress system to force turnovers. They are both quick in attack, need attacking duties and numbers high up the pitch - but they both defend in opposite ways. A counter style needs to sit in a compact shape, draw the opponent on, then spring the break - sitting in shape is something a BWM is not good at, because he leaves his position to shut down opponents. If you are pressing high, a BWM is much more use because he will deny space, force turnovers in dangerous areas and initiate rapid attacks. So your decision to make is - defend deep and in shape, or press high and force turnovers. Once you have decided that, it determines if the BWM is going to be suitable. As for the rest of your midfield, AP(s) aren't really renowned for quick attacking football, especially with 2 of them. Again, depending on how you attack (quickly playing into space, or driving with the ball) should decide what roles suit you. It's hard to go wrong with a Box to Box Midfielder in there as one of them. I've got some suggestions in the Pairs and Combinations guide I wrote for setting up your midfield 3.
• Once you have decided how to attack, get some variation in your front 3, I don't know your players so well, so you'd need to decide what is appropriate, but you try something like these (or mix up, there are so many combinations)

1. IF(s) - P(a) - W(a)
2. IF(a) - CF(s) - IF(a)
3. IW(s) - PF(a) - IF(a)

Good luck

[Experienced Defender]

On 16/02/2020 at 20:11, W-Walton said:

 

On 16/02/2020 at 20:11, W-Walton said:

my questions is , is there something that doesn't match up well 

A lot does not match up IMHO.

First, all your front 3 are on attack duties, which makes them fairly isolated and the setup overall pretty much disjointed. On top of that, they are basically looking to attack same areas of space by virtue of their roles. 

There is also a possibility that the poacher as the lone striker may end up without sufficient support in this particular type of setup. If you notice that being the case, change him into PF on attack. 

Secondly, I don't see much (if any) point in using 2 playmakers in the central midfield, especially when they are played in the same role (AP), and even the same duty. So that's another thing I would change in your tactic.

I don't know how your team is faring defensively, but the use of tight marking in this kind of tactical setup entails a needless amount of risk, especially when coupled with a high DL and less-than-optimal level of compactness in defense. Therefore, I would suggest you remove it.

Another defensively risky instruction in your tactic is the Underlap left, because it additionally increases the already high individual mentality of your attacking LB, which is then compounded by the lack of a holding/covering CM on that side. 

Last but not least - and again pertinent to the defensive side of the game - using a BWM as holding CM is also potentially risky due to the role's inherently aggressive manner of defending. I would prefer a CM on defend instead.

On 16/02/2020 at 20:11, W-Walton said:

what would you suggest, using this formation/tactic

Taking into account my observations above, this is one possible example of how you could set up your tactic using this particular formation (including the AP role):

PFat

IWsu                                    Wat

CAR   CMde   APsu

 

FBat    CDde  CD/BPDde  WBsu

SKde/su

Of course, given that I don't know your players, I cannot tell for sure if this particular setup would optimally suit your team. So take this with a pinch of salt and use it rather as an idea (food for thought) to consider when making tactical decisions in the future.

In terms of instructions, I assume you are managing a strong team, given how attack-minded your tactic generally is. If so, then these would be starting instructions I would recommend:

Mentality - Positive

In possession - play out of defence and shorter passing (small gradual tweaks can come later if needed)

In transition - nothing (possible small tweaks can likewise be added as you see fit)

Out of possession - higher DL and standard LOE

And you can also apply a split block via player instructions for the front 3.

[W-Walton]

Really, thanks guys. 

I've been analyzing my squad and possible tactics recent days.
And I think I've been spending money, time and scouting on the wrong players - to be able to play the way I want. 

Everything is built pretty wrong from the start and I think I had enough with this team (Stuttgart) after four seasons (actually winning Bundesliga 2 x1, Bundesliga x1, DFB x1 and Europa League x1).

Either way I've learnt many things from your posts and will be more cautious with signings and even more with roles suited for the system. 

I have started a new game - and by doing things with more consideration from the start, I will probably be back with questions in a new thread

Thanks again.

Br, W-Walton.

Edited February 18, 2020 by W-Walton