Need a counter attacking guide!

[Strikerir1]

I pretty sure I've ask for help here with the same premise but it seems I can't make it work soo what I'm asking is if someone can give me a complete guide on how to play on the counter attack what do I need to look for in terms of roles, mentality even corner and set piece routines (I have a good one) I wanna know every bit of information. 

(I've tried tiki taka, gengenpressing systems I've had some successes but nothing makes me happier than seeing a counter attack seeing my team soak up pressure and then boom) 

[Robson 07]

It's the same principles used in military strategy.  There are dozens, maybe hundreds of such articles.  Basketball is another sport you could look at they are some fantastic coaching references on fast breaks and so on.  Plenty of search results you can even find on these forums.  The basics:-

• Use a formation and roles to fortify central defence.  Keep it tight.
• So players behind the ball and defensive instructions that fight for space.  I still close down but in a lower block.
• Attack speedily at opponents weak spot (almost certainly the flanks where full backs may have over committed).
• So attacking wide players on attack duties and again think about your formation.  Also I'm wary of play-makers because they attract the ball and I don't necessarily want to go through them.

[Rashidi]

12 hours ago, Strikerir1 said:

I pretty sure I've ask for help here with the same premise but it seems I can't make it work soo what I'm asking is if someone can give me a complete guide on how to play on the counter attack what do I need to look for in terms of roles, mentality even corner and set piece routines (I have a good one) I wanna know every bit of information. 

(I've tried tiki taka, gengenpressing systems I've had some successes but nothing makes me happier than seeing a counter attack seeing my team soak up pressure and then boom) 

A simpler way to begin would be to actually pick a counter attacking preset and try and understand why the specific team instructions were used in the first place.

Presets are meant to be a starting point for people who aren't familiar with tactics. They can be tweaked further to create unique styles suited to what you want specifically. There are basically two presets you can begin with fluid counter attacking and direct counter attacking. 

Fluid aims to use more support duties and seeks to attack as a massed group, however it does not seek to commit how backline too high up in the counter attacking phase. The mentality is low risk and will generally see your team waiting for the right opportunity to launch a counter. And this could happen automatically when you are defending deep or coming off defending a set piece.

The team instructions to pay attention to that define the style are: Passing, Defensive Line and Line of engagement.  The passing style is different to influence the directness of attacks. Defensive line influences the gaps between defence and midfield and influence how much support the backline will provide the midfield. The deeper the defensive line the closer these players will be to your goal. The line of engagement influences when your team begins pressing. It generally works in thirds, so a low LOE typically sees pressing begin in your third. 

That basically helps create the style you want, the various formations and roles and duties will affect how your players behave in an attack. Perhaps a good way to begin is to start from there first.

Personally speaking I have my own style of counter attacking football which is played on higher mentalities but with standard to low lines of engagement, where sides are drawn into a compressed block, where my players are used to shut passing lanes down instead of pressing aggressively (default vs high pressing intensity). Various styles are possible and till you start getting used to it, you won't be able to appreciate the more complicated set ups. And that is why I suggest you begin with presets and start adjusting from there till you find what you specifically like. I even made 2 systems the Kingsborne 442DM and the Maves 442 systems, both of which can switch between counterattacking to full on attacking systems with changes to team instructions. I even use a 235 and crazily enough, its set up to draw teams in and then hits them hard on the counter with 4 strikers driving into the box.

If you want to make your own system ultimately, then you need to start somewhere.

[Strikerir1]

Thank you for the reply I've never thought of using the pre sets especially counter attacking ones because I see that a lot of people don't have success but I'll try tweak it to suit not only my players but what I'm after. Yes I've watched your videos on counter attack but I still couldn't wrap my head around it but I guess I'm going from the pre sets up. A question thought can I try any other formation like a 4231 dm or maybe a 4141 aka 433 or any other? 

[Strikerir1]

6 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

It's the same principles used in military strategy.  There are dozens, maybe hundreds of such articles.  Basketball is another sport you could look at they are some fantastic coaching references on fast breaks and so on.  Plenty of search results you can even find on these forums.  The basics:-

• Use a formation and roles to fortify central defence.  Keep it tight.
• So players behind the ball and defensive instructions that fight for space.  I still close down but in a lower block.
• Attack speedily at opponents weak spot (almost certainly the flanks where full backs may have over committed).
• So attacking wide players on attack duties and again think about your formation.  Also I'm wary of play-makers because they attract the ball and I don't necessarily want to go through them.

Thank you for the reply wouldn't close down on a low block can attract pressure and then by us pressuring we can give up some space? 

[Robson 07]

1 hour ago, Strikerir1 said:

Thank you for the reply wouldn't close down on a low block can attract pressure and then by us pressuring we can give up some space? 

You can not back off forever or just allow the opposition to camp in your half the whole match.  You have to make a stand, regain the ball at some point, and then you counter.  It may need a bit of testing to see how much is too much or how little is too little but its not just defending or shape exclusively.  You concede some territory, protect the key zones  but winning the ball back and shifting it forward quick is a classic counter.

[Strikerir1]

9 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

You can not back off forever or just allow the opposition to camp in your half the whole match.  You have to make a stand, regain the ball at some point, and then you counter.  It may need a bit of testing to see how much is too much or how little is too little but its not just defending or shape exclusively.  You concede some territory, protect the key zones  but winning the ball back and shifting it forward quick is a classic counter.

I'm intrigued I'm interested to see how you would go about building a CA tactic. Can you give me a example? 

 

[llama3]

2 hours ago, Strikerir1 said:

Thank you for the reply I've never thought of using the pre sets especially counter attacking ones because I see that a lot of people don't have success but I'll try tweak it to suit not only my players but what I'm after. Yes I've watched your videos on counter attack but I still couldn't wrap my head around it but I guess I'm going from the pre sets up. A question thought can I try any other formation like a 4231 dm or maybe a 4141 aka 433 or any other? 

I use the presets a lot, then making minor alterations afterwards. It's always a sensible base to start from - do make changes, but I'd recommend just spending time to see how such tactics are setup in the first place. Out of the 2 x counter presets, you can choose to make use of a couple of rapid, direct passes, or you can make use of quick interchanges and ball carrying instead (fluid). That all depends on your team - do you have technically strong players, or quick and powerful ones? Do you have an excellent deep distributor or a real talented dribbler? They will all inform that choice on how you go about it.

[Robson 07]

Just copied a post I've done before (lazy I know).  Agree with both things @Rashidi was saying earlier also.  Presets are a useful guide to study; and I think you can get into a similar position by dropping off/deeper from a more aggressive mentality.

[Strikerir1]

Soo I'm about to start a Bournemouth save I'm going to analyse the squad and create a counter attacking tactic I'm going to post screenshots here and I want your guys opinion on what I can change

[Strikerir1]

This is the tactic... I know 4231 it's not the optimal formation if its better I'll change it to a 4411. (I took picture because for some reason I can't screenshot) 

I went with the 4231 because I wanted my Trequatista to be the kingpin of the counter attack I want him to hold the ball or play the final pass and that's the reason I've pushed the wingers up so they get forward enough without being Midfielders on attack maybe they could work in the mid strata on support but I want your guys opinion on that. I want to win the ball in midfield that's where majority of the counter attacks start in real life, that's why I choose a bwm and instructed the btb to tackle harder and the wingers to press more and tackle harder. 

In possession I went with the pre set fluid counter I just added work ball in to box so we make the most out of our chances. 

I'm transition its counter and regroup with distribute quickly 

Regroup because I don't want to get hit over the top especially with a top heavy formation

Out of possession 

It's Slightly urgent pressing 

Standard d line 

Lower line of engagement 

And tackle harder

 

[llama3]

3 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

This is the tactic... I know 4231 it's not the optimal formation if its better I'll change it to a 4411. (I took picture because for some reason I can't screenshot) 

I went with the 4231 because I wanted my Trequatista to be the kingpin of the counter attack I want him to hold the ball or play the final pass and that's the reason I've pushed the wingers up so they get forward enough without being Midfielders on attack maybe they could work in the mid strata on support but I want your guys opinion on that. I want to win the ball in midfield that's where majority of the counter attacks start in real life, that's why I choose a bwm and instructed the btb to tackle harder and the wingers to press more and tackle harder. 

In possession I went with the pre set fluid counter I just added work ball in to box so we make the most out of our chances. 

I'm transition its counter and regroup with distribute quickly 

Regroup because I don't want to get hit over the top especially with a top heavy formation

Out of possession 

It's Slightly urgent pressing 

Standard d line 

Lower line of engagement 

And tackle harder

 

So the counter-attack needs something resembling a compact defensive shape - having the wide players up, as well as an AMC really robs you of that. I'd look to go 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 DM Wide to make sure you get some numbers back. I'd suggest removing work the ball into box, that stops long range shots and crosses - you kind of need both, especially crosses when playing on the break as it's about exploiting space quickly. I can understand the reason why you'd want to regroup, personally I think you'd be better off counter-pressing still, but that's the kind of thing to try and see what works best. 

On to your Trequartista - so this is obviously going to depend on if you switch formation - ideally when you are playing on the counter, you need some numbers up field to play the ball too. Yes, a Trequartista will do that, he will not run in behind though like your AF will - now that's fine - what you need to observe for is - does he get given the ball, does he have options when he does, does he dwell on the ball or play it quickly in behind the opposition defence - if the answer is no, I'd reconsider his role, but if he is doing it, then keep it. The most notable thing about your BWM is that it's really ill-suited to counter-attacking. He doesn't stay in shape, he leaves shape to put pressure on - and what is dangerous is if he is the only person doing it, creates a gap and opponents exploit it. I'd definitely recommend changing Lerma to something more like a DM(d) or CM(d) depending on what position you play him in.

[Strikerir1]

10 minutes ago, llama3 said:

So the counter-attack needs something resembling a compact defensive shape - having the wide players up, as well as an AMC really robs you of that. I'd look to go 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 DM Wide to make sure you get some numbers back. I'd suggest removing work the ball into box, that stops long range shots and crosses - you kind of need both, especially crosses when playing on the break as it's about exploiting space quickly. I can understand the reason why you'd want to regroup, personally I think you'd be better off counter-pressing still, but that's the kind of thing to try and see what works best. 

On to your Trequartista - so this is obviously going to depend on if you switch formation - ideally when you are playing on the counter, you need some numbers up field to play the ball too. Yes, a Trequartista will do that, he will not run in behind though like your AF will - now that's fine - what you need to observe for is - does he get given the ball, does he have options when he does, does he dwell on the ball or play it quickly in behind the opposition defence - if the answer is no, I'd reconsider his role, but if he is doing it, then keep it. The most notable thing about your BWM is that it's really ill-suited to counter-attacking. He doesn't stay in shape, he leaves shape to put pressure on - and what is dangerous is if he is the only person doing it, creates a gap and opponents exploit it. I'd definitely recommend changing Lerma to something more like a DM(d) or CM(d) depending on what position you play him in.

So I'm going to put back the wingers do I put them on attack or stay on support

[llama3]

5 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

So I'm going to put back the wingers do I put them on attack or stay on support

As you're trying to play a more fluid counter style, than a direct counter style then I'd say support duties are more helpful.

[Experienced Defender]

On 16/02/2020 at 22:37, Strikerir1 said:

 

On 16/02/2020 at 22:37, Strikerir1 said:

I know 4231 it's not the optimal formation if its better I'll change it to a 4411

Yes, change into a 4411, because the 4231 is not an optimal formation if you want counter-attacking football to be your primary style of play. I mean, you can play a counter style in a 4231 if you instist, but it's more tricky to set up properly, especially for a team like B'mouth. They are a decent side and I really like them, but there is good reason why Eddie Howe prefers a 442 for him team. 

 

On 16/02/2020 at 22:37, Strikerir1 said:

I went with the 4231 because I wanted my Trequatista to be the kingpin of the counter attack

You can have a TQ in a 4411 as well.

[Strikerir1]

21 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Yes, change into a 4411, because the 4231 is not an optimal formation if you want counter-attacking football to be your primary style of play. I mean, you can play a counter style in a 4231 if you instist, but it's more tricky to set up properly, especially for a team like B'mouth. They are a decent side and I really like them, but there is good reason why Eddie Howe prefers a 442 for him team. 

 

You can have a TQ in a 4411 as well.

I advanced a bit and I made a more attacking 4231 not to exaggerated and a 442 for away and tuf games and the 442 has provided me with some counter attacks that make me go insane 

[Experienced Defender]

52 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

I advanced a bit and I made a more attacking 4231 not to exaggerated and a 442 for away and tuf games and the 442 has provided me with some counter attacks that make me go insane 

Screenshots? 

 

53 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

the 442 has provided me with some counter attacks that make me go insane

Didn't quite understand this. Your team played counter-attacks that made you "go insane" or you got counter-attacked by the opposition?

[Strikerir1]

55 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Screenshots? 

 

Didn't quite understand this. Your team played counter-attacks that made you "go insane" or you got counter-attacked by the opposition?

My team I'll send but now steam is dead 

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

My team

So the counter-attacks your team played were poorly executed, I guess? 

 

3 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

I'll send but now steam is dead 

Okay