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Pairs & Combinations - The Ultimate Guide (Released)

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5 minutes ago, carloshcorbalan said:

Hola.....

como la traduzco a español.....

No hablo español. 

Si alguien quiere traducir, por favor envíeme un mensaje.

[lo siento - Google Translate]

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Beautiful news llama3! The original was one of the best resources for FM ever and it's just great to have it properly updated. Can't wait to start reading it tomorrow!

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Not had the chance to delve into it but just wanted to say thanks/well done.  For anyone to give up their free time to produce that kind of content they deserve a big pat on the back.:applause:

Edited by Robson 07

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I do believe you have gone above and beyond your duty for the Football Manager community.

What an absolute belting update of this amazing guide and I echo all of the other by saying thank you so much. :applause:

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A great piece of work for the community, mate! :) Nicely explained, well-thought. Thank you.

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Needs further reading to absorb all you've tried to cover but I really like certain things such as press/shape, endurance/sprinter and similar tables.  Also like the overall quality of presentation.

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Only had a chance to have a quick flick through at the minute but from what I've seen so far this is going to be a timeless and invaluable resource for the community. Thank you very much. 

:applause: :thup:

 

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Bro this is amazing. What can I do for you? 

Edited by Experienced Defender
inappropriate word

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Much thanks for your effort. Gonna read this now. Have a great day!

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Brilliant! Reading it now, and wanted to clarify something. In the part about the Half Back you write: "The Half Back sits in front of the defence whilst in possession, being a passing outlet to keep recycling the ball. When the team loses possession, he drops between the centre back pairing, and splits the centre backs wider, creating a back three. " - Is it not supposed to be the reverse? That the Half Back drops between the central pairing during build-up to help play out from the back, and that he acts as a shield in front of the defence when out of possession?

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There's a problem with this paragraph on page 12.

"The Half Back is an inversion of how a Sweeper plays. The Half Back sits in front of the defence whilst in possession, being a passing outlet to keep recycling the ball. When the team loses possession, he drops between the centre back pairing, and splits the centre backs wider, creating a back three."

It's the other way around, the HB drops between the CBs in possession, creating a back three. This behavior primarily occurs during buildup, once the ball progresses into the final third he can take up more advanced positions similar to an Anchorman. Out of possession he sits in front of the backline and acts like a regular DM.

 

That is what the role does in theory, in practice the HB has two major issues that for me make it entirely unusable. The behavior I described only works as intended with the wide defenders played from the WB strata. If played from the FB strata the HB will still drop deep, but the CBs will not spread as much and resulting back three will be significantly narrower than a regular back three. This narrow positioning makes it largely ineffective at getting past a 2 man press, which is primary reason why the role evolved.

And second, even when used "as intended" with the wide defenders in the WB strata, when the HB steps out from the backline because the ball is high up the pitch, the CBs will keep their wide positioning thus leaving a huge space right in the middle of the defence.

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2 hours ago, Vizzini said:

Brilliant! Reading it now, and wanted to clarify something. In the part about the Half Back you write: "The Half Back sits in front of the defence whilst in possession, being a passing outlet to keep recycling the ball. When the team loses possession, he drops between the centre back pairing, and splits the centre backs wider, creating a back three. " - Is it not supposed to be the reverse? That the Half Back drops between the central pairing during build-up to help play out from the back, and that he acts as a shield in front of the defence when out of possession?

 

17 minutes ago, SD said:

There's a problem with this paragraph on page 12.

"The Half Back is an inversion of how a Sweeper plays. The Half Back sits in front of the defence whilst in possession, being a passing outlet to keep recycling the ball. When the team loses possession, he drops between the centre back pairing, and splits the centre backs wider, creating a back three."

It's the other way around, the HB drops between the CBs in possession, creating a back three. This behavior primarily occurs during buildup, once the ball progresses into the final third he can take up more advanced positions similar to an Anchorman. Out of possession he sits in front of the backline and acts like a regular DM.

 

That is what the role does in theory, in practice the HB has two major issues that for me make it entirely unusable. The behavior I described only works as intended with the wide defenders played from the WB strata. If played from the FB strata the HB will still drop deep, but the CBs will not spread as much and resulting back three will be significantly narrower than a regular back three. This narrow positioning makes it largely ineffective at getting past a 2 man press, which is primary reason why the role evolved.

And second, even when used "as intended" with the wide defenders in the WB strata, when the HB steps out from the backline because the ball is high up the pitch, the CBs will keep their wide positioning thus leaving a huge space right in the middle of the defence.

Thanks both, you're spot on it's the other way round. If/as/when I update I'll change that.

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22 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Not had the chance to delve into it but just wanted to say thanks/well done.  For anyone to give up their free time to produce that kind of content they deserve a big pat on the back.:applause:

Thank you. It's 10,000 words, enough for a University dissertation! No small effort goes into it, but seeing how many people view and download it and appreciate it genuinely makes it worthwhile.

8 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Needs further reading to absorb all you've tried to cover but I really like certain things such as press/shape, endurance/sprinter and similar tables.  Also like the overall quality of presentation.

Thanks, good to hear your view as it's a new way I wanted to cover that section. Midfield had a big re-write to try and format, so glad it has come across to you. I felt the table format made easier visual reference as the last guide had more text than would be ideal.

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Question regarding the wide role combinations- what does the "!" mean? Is that indicating not to use those two roles in combination? 

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6 hours ago, RCCook said:

Question regarding the wide role combinations- what does the "!" mean? Is that indicating not to use those two roles in combination? 

It’s “use with caution”, not a straightforward yes/no like some of the others, but can work in right circumstances.

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Thanks for this - it is a really professional looking and informative guide - has given me plenty to think about.

I wondered whether there is an opportunity to expand on lone strikers and how these pair and combine with other positions?  For instance how a lone striker combines with the IF/IW or midfield strata behind them?

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58 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

Thanks for this - it is a really professional looking and informative guide - has given me plenty to think about.

I wondered whether there is an opportunity to expand on lone strikers and how these pair and combine with other positions?  For instance how a lone striker combines with the IF/IW or midfield strata behind them?

I also thought that the information for long strikers was a bit unclear. Also 4411, 41221 and 4141 have quite different lone strikers to each other. 

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7 hours ago, Fieldsy said:

Thanks for this - it is a really professional looking and informative guide - has given me plenty to think about.

I wondered whether there is an opportunity to expand on lone strikers and how these pair and combine with other positions?  For instance how a lone striker combines with the IF/IW or midfield strata behind them?

6 hours ago, henryzz said:

I also thought that the information for long strikers was a bit unclear. Also 4411, 41221 and 4141 have quite different lone strikers to each other. 

Thanks for the feedback. It's actually something I covered a bit more in this version than before. Essentially what I am trying to get across is that any forward system involves a pair and/or combination. Even a lone forward in a flat 4-1-4-1 has combinations in it at some point. An Inside Forward, Raumdeuter, Attacking Midfielder, Shadow Striker, even a Mezzala or Central Midfielder (attack) can be considered as part of the pair/combination. 

The 3 x main types of partnership - big man-little man, creator-scorer and false nine-false ten can be made up of lone central strikers. So a few examples:

Big Man - Little Man
You could use a Wide Target Man, or Target Man as the big man, as well as some other striker roles like a Complete Forward or Deep-Lying Forward. The behaviour you are looking for is someone who either drops deep, plays with back to goal and/or holds the ball up to form the role of a big man - this can take place. The little man can come from AM (RLC) or ST (C), with essentially a forward-thinking role looking to get in behind. A Poacher, Advanced Forward, Pressing Forward can all fulfil that role as ST (C), but that can also come from a Shadow Striker, Attacking Midfielder (Attack), Inside Forward, Raumdeuter, possibly to a lesser extent an Inverted Winger (but certainly less suited). 

Creator-Scorer
The creator and scorer can be switched into any position. The creator can be a playmaker (Enganche, Trequartista, Advanced Forward, Wide Playmaker) or a creative wide player (Winger, Inverted Winger, Inside Forward - support), with a more typical goalscorer (as listed above), or you can use the forward as the creator (False Nine, Trequartista, Deep-Lying Forward, Complete Forward) with a wide or deep player as a forward (again, as listed above - Inside Forward, Raumdeuter, Shadow Striker, Attacking Midfielder etc.).

False Nine-Ten
A lot of this set-up is similar to the example used in a creator-scorer system, but it's more specifically focused on the striker dropping deep and the deeper player pushing forward. A lone forward in a 4-1-4-1 like a Deep-Lying Forward (Support) for example, can find a Central Midfielder (Attack) pushes on beyond him and gets into the box. So it's a pairing/combination again, even though there are yards between the 2 positions.

Does that help?

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Thanks for this!  I've had a few scrapped saves recently where I've not been able to either adapt my tactics or understand what is/isn't working and it was getting incredibly frustrating. 

Had a good read of this whilst sorting out my latest save tonight and the early signs are very positive, because I actually understand what's going on, why it's working and what I need to do to keep it going. Cheers!

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Very nice guide! Getting your role/duty combination right is often-times the most overlooked aspect of making a tactic but it's incredibly important, and this guide seems a great reference for people struggling to get the right balance.

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On 10/02/2020 at 22:11, KyleHyde said:

Beautiful news llama3! The original was one of the best resources for FM ever and it's just great to have it properly updated. Can't wait to start reading it tomorrow!

Echo this, and this version is even better!

 

Had one question regarding endurance vs sprinters in midfield - I didn’t totally understand where you’d use one rather than the other. Is it the case that endurance tends to work better for possession (as in your example) or can sprinters work depending on your setup (I guess you’d need runners from deep...?)

 

Basically, is it always preferable to have both, or do certain styles prefer one or the other?

 

Hope that’s not too confusing a question (and thanks again!)

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On 06/03/2020 at 07:17, Optimal-Kiwi said:

Had one question regarding endurance vs sprinters in midfield - I didn’t totally understand where you’d use one rather than the other. Is it the case that endurance tends to work better for possession (as in your example) or can sprinters work depending on your setup (I guess you’d need runners from deep...?)

Basically, is it always preferable to have both, or do certain styles prefer one or the other?

Hope that’s not too confusing a question (and thanks again!)

So a sprinter is where you need someone to make penetrating runs - so think about a counter-attacking system where you need to get runs forward quickly, or a possession system where you try to break lines with deep runners. I wouldn't say it's necessarily about the system, more about the role you need the person to play. An endurance runner is someone you are looking to see involved constantly with workrate the key, rather than moments that create an impact.

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Thank you for this guide, I had a good knowledge on it but this reminds important things and on some points you raise things I have not even thought about.

Cheers.

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1 hour ago, KrKAlex said:

Thank you for this guide, I had a good knowledge on it but this reminds important things and on some points you raise things I have not even thought about.

Cheers.

Cheers, I'm sure there are so many others things I haven't thought of or written to, but I'm glad you and others find it useful - it's a good starting point to get a good balanced system/team

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Maybe silly question but help me please...I saw your explain about wide players. I don’t understand different about your symbols and?
Can you explain me, please. Thx a lot!

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