Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Sign in to follow this  
Mr Tonio

Team don't want to low cross

Recommended Posts

Some of TI are just non effective. Low crosses for example. As an illustration, this match. World class wingers and wingbacks. Not a single low cross in the whole match. And this is not an occasional bad day. It's all the time, no matter the context or the team. Always high crosses to the far post/center resulting in header over the bar from not particularly tall or head gifted players. This might partially explain the bad ratings for IF noticed in another topic.

Burnley - Arsenal.pkm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've reported this before. It was marked under review but still seems to have not been fixed at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/02/2020 at 07:39, Mr Tonio said:

Some of TI are just non effective. Low crosses for example. As an illustration, this match. World class wingers and wingbacks. Not a single low cross in the whole match. And this is not an occasional bad day. It's all the time, no matter the context or the team. Always high crosses to the far post/center resulting in header over the bar from not particularly tall or head gifted players. This might partially explain the bad ratings for IF noticed in another topic.

Burnley - Arsenal.pkm 234.4 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks for raising and posting. We are continuing to work on improving low crossing.

Highlighting times in matches where a player could low cross but instead crosses high or shoots would be ideal.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you. Highlighting would be a little bit pointless in my sense: Every cross is High. The low cross instruction is never followed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @Mr Tonio,

Highlighting times assists us in our investigation because not all crosses should be low, so if you identify specific crosses that are high, that should be low, we can pinpoint exactly the instances you're referring to.

Not providing examples leads us to making assumptions on which crosses you are on about.

Cheers,

Josh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/02/2020 at 15:18, Josh Brimacombe-Wiard said:

Hi @Mr Tonio,

Highlighting times assists us in our investigation because not all crosses should be low, so if you identify specific crosses that are high, that should be low, we can pinpoint exactly the instances you're referring to.

Not providing examples leads us to making assumptions on which crosses you are on about.

Cheers,

Josh

So..when a cross should be low ? i thought as long we set the crosses to low the wingers/FBs would try to low cross...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @bitzu_rock,

By design, we hope that when we instruct players to cross low, they do so when the option is correct, if the cross is likely to get cut out, players should take it upon themselves to find another way of crossing.

This thread is suggesting that this instruction isn't working, therefore we're asking for examples of when a player has the option to cross low, but doesn't.

Thanks,

Josh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Josh Brimacombe-Wiard said:

Hi @bitzu_rock,

By design, we hope that when we instruct players to cross low, they do so when the option is correct, if the cross is likely to get cut out, players should take it upon themselves to find another way of crossing.

This thread is suggesting that this instruction isn't working, therefore we're asking for examples of when a player has the option to cross low, but doesn't.

Thanks,

Josh

Then...i am not sure when the players should low cross....i thought they should try to low cross whenever they will prepare to cross....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play with a 4-1-4-1 system with AMR and AML on support and one PF on attack. So..when either AMR or AML crosses over the opposite defence to my other AML/AMR, it crosses high, even the AMR/AML on the other side is alone in the box and would be easier to kick the ball with his foot...

Instead of a volley...it is a header try...and my AMR/AML do not have grate heading attributes....

...or i t is just wrong tactic ?

If you remember back in Euro 2000...England vs Portugal when Beckham crosses to Mcmanaman and he scores kicking the ball with his foot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMn7I3rImWk

Edited by bitzu_rock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @bitzu_rock,

So the scenarios we would look for would be for example:

- If there is no defender in the way of a cross getting in the box.

- If the striker is in front of his defender and would receive the ball to his feet.

- Any other variation of cross that a ball on the floor would not be cut out by a defender.

If you have any examples of the above, you can put the examples in here. 

Thanks,

Josh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Josh Brimacombe-Wiard said:

Hi @bitzu_rock,

So the scenarios we would look for would be for example:

- If there is no defender in the way of a cross getting in the box.

- If the striker is in front of his defender and would receive the ball to his feet.

- Any other variation of cross that a ball on the floor would not be cut out by a defender.

If you have any examples of the above, you can put the examples in here. 

Thanks,

Josh

Surely this is only relevant if you are telling the team to cross mixed? If I am specifically telling them to cross low then do they not look for this option other than when it presents itself as obviously as in your example? Does setting my team instructions to low cross mean that the wide players will look to get into these positions more often and the striker will look to get in front of the defender? Maybe the issue is that you tell your team to play low crosses but they don't position themselves in the way to do so? Would it also be worth setting player instructions to cross to the near post?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @likesiamesefish,

We always try to make our game as realistic as possible. In world football, if there isn't any chance that a low cross is going to beat the first man, the cross might need to be whipped or lofted for example. I wouldn't expect a professional player to take all instructions literally if it's not the correct decision at the time in the game. 

Therefore for this to be a bug, which It very well might be... we need to ensure that the examples provided show scenario's where the player should cross low if instructed.

Thanks,

Josh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Josh Brimacombe-Wiard said:

Hi @likesiamesefish,

We always try to make our game as realistic as possible. In world football, if there isn't any chance that a low cross is going to beat the first man, the cross might need to be whipped or lofted for example. I wouldn't expect a professional player to take all instructions literally if it's not the correct decision at the time in the game. 

Therefore for this to be a bug, which It very well might be... we need to ensure that the examples provided show scenario's where the player should cross low if instructed.

Thanks,

Josh

Like I say though, if I am specifically telling my team to look for low crosses then should they not look to get into those positions more often and would this also not be part of the analysis as to whether or not there is a bug? This is a genuine question but low crosses is a team instruction so it would make sense that it influences how the team plays rather than solely individual decision making in certain situations, no?

Your example seems to describe a situation when a low cross should always be used (and you even go on to explain that they will still use different crosses if appropriate when told to cross low) so I am curious as to what difference telling them cross in a specific way is actually supposed to have in the ME? Your answer implies that a player will just make the appropriate cross for the given situation, so is it not positional play and whether or not they are getting into these positions in the first place that needs to be looked at to see if there is a bug? This is why I asked whether it is worth setting my wide players individually to cross to the near post to get an idea as to the weighting of different instructions in the ME.

If setting my team to cross low means they will only do so when the situation presents itself and there is no difference in the way the team will try to create chances then it seems to me it should be a player instruction rather than a team one, especially when player instructions can determine where the crosses are coming from and where they are aimed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/02/2020 at 14:16, likesiamesefish said:

Like I say though, if I am specifically telling my team to look for low crosses then should they not look to get into those positions more often and would this also not be part of the analysis as to whether or not there is a bug? This is a genuine question but low crosses is a team instruction so it would make sense that it influences how the team plays rather than solely individual decision making in certain situations, no?

Your example seems to describe a situation when a low cross should always be used (and you even go on to explain that they will still use different crosses if appropriate when told to cross low) so I am curious as to what difference telling them cross in a specific way is actually supposed to have in the ME? Your answer implies that a player will just make the appropriate cross for the given situation, so is it not positional play and whether or not they are getting into these positions in the first place that needs to be looked at to see if there is a bug? This is why I asked whether it is worth setting my wide players individually to cross to the near post to get an idea as to the weighting of different instructions in the ME.

If setting my team to cross low means they will only do so when the situation presents itself and there is no difference in the way the team will try to create chances then it seems to me it should be a player instruction rather than a team one, especially when player instructions can determine where the crosses are coming from and where they are aimed.

Crossing instructions are a part of the in possession Team Instructions, a combination of these instructions will create final third opportunities. Choosing what cross type wouldn't override your tactics.

When there is a opportunity to cross, all three types could be valid. But if you have a Target Man who is strong in the air you may choose floated crosses for example.Your original post suggests players are getting into positions to cross low but are not choosing to (something we have logged ourselves) - No team would exclusively cross only one way but they might have a preference based on their attacking strengths (heading, off the ball etc.)

Players choose the best type of cross for the situation, it would be a general rule for the team but it is down to the player roles and team instructions to create these crossing scenarios. If you feel your team are creating these chances but not crossing the ball low, please could you share PKM examples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@CJ Ramson - thank you very much for the reply!

Okay cool so basically the only difference choosing the type of crosses in TIs makes is that if the player finds themselves in a position where different types of cross will have a similar potential outcome, they will then choose the cross you want them to but it doesn't mean that the team will try and create these crossing situations any more or less than they would before.

I don't have any PKMs to upload btw, I have only replied in this thread because I was intrigued by the request for specific instances where the ball should have been crossed low to see if there was a bug where my thinking was that the game itself would need to be reviewed because it being a team instruction would be influencing how the team plays rather than the individual decision making.

I am not saying this is a bug or whatever, I would never tell my players to cross low anyway, was just something I was interested in. It does seem to me that this should be a player instruction rather than team instruction but I don't really care and ordinarily prefer the relatively opaque nature of the tactical system, knowing too much about the mechanics of the ME would ruin the game IMO. I know every interaction on here probably feels like people having a go but I was just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CJ Ramson said:

Your original post suggests players are getting into positions to cross low but are not choosing to (something we have logged ourselves) -

The op is from me. I have not exactly suggested this, i was merely stating that i've never seen any low cross from any tactic i played. The pkm was an exemple of this with a very overpowered team that i use for testing the ME. I still did not take the time to timestamp it, but i will as soon as i have the time to, because the discussion here intrigued me.

Cheers from Tahiti!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, likesiamesefish said:

Okay cool so basically the only difference choosing the type of crosses in TIs makes is that if the player finds themselves in a position where different types of cross will have a similar potential outcome, they will then choose the cross you want them to but it doesn't mean that the team will try and create these crossing situations any more or less than they would before.

This is pretty much it! We are happy to explain the detail behind the match engine as well as possible. Fair point about it being a player instruction, it could potentially be both and something I will raise in discussion with the wider team. Thanks for the interest!

37 minutes ago, Mr Tonio said:

The op is from me. I have not exactly suggested this, i was merely stating that i've never seen any low cross from any tactic i played. The pkm was an exemple of this with a very overpowered team that i use for testing the ME. I still did not take the time to timestamp it, but i will as soon as i have the time to, because the discussion here intrigued me.

Low crosses are in the game, just unfortunately quite rare. This is why we asked for examples of times a player is in position to play one but doesn't. If you do come across this, please upload a PKM example!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...