Chelsea Tactical Setup Help

[SteveDavis85]

Just started playing FM2020 (having previously been on FM2017) so am new to the tactical setup on the newer version.
I am starting a new Chelsea save since the Database updates from the January transfer window and need some advise on tactical setup.

Ideally playing a 4-3-3, what tactical style would you recommened?
Additionally, what corresponding playing roles should I set for specific players (Willian as one example)?

I thought something along the lines of this for plaer roles but am not sure. Maybe the roles need to be different?

 

                                 Abraham
                                    CF(A)

 Pulisic                                                     Willian
 IF(S)                                                         W(S)

                      Kovacic             Kante
                     DLPM(S)            B2B(S)

 

                                Jorginho
                                DLPM(D)

 

Emerson             AC            Rudiger          Azpi
WB(S)              BPD(D)         CD(D)             WB(S)

 

                                 Kepa
                                 SK(S)

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Abraham
                                    CF(A)

 Pulisic                                                     Willian
 IF(S)                                                         W(S)

                      Kovacic             Kante
                     DLPM(S)            B2B(S)

 

                                Jorginho
                                DLPM(D)

 

Emerson             AC            Rudiger          Azpi
WB(S)              BPD(D)         CD(D)             WB(S)

 

                                 Kepa
                                 SK(S)

In this setup, there are 2 key problems IMHO:

1. potential isolation of your lone striker as the only player on attack duty

2. using 2 playmakers so close too each other and even in the same role, which is a typical example of tactical overkill 

I would also set up the midfield differently in terms of player selection relative to positions and roles.

 

3 hours ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Ideally playing a 4-3-3, what tactical style would you recommened?

When I manage top teams, I personally prefer the style I call "progressive possession football". And the 4141dm wide (or 433, as you call it) is an ideal formation for that style btw. 

I know how I would basically set up my primary tactic for this Chelsea team, but I guess you would like to try to do it yourself first.

[SteveDavis85]

 

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In this setup, there are 2 key problems IMHO:

1. potential isolation of your lone striker as the only player on attack duty

2. using 2 playmakers so close too each other and even in the same role, which is a typical example of tactical overkill 

I would also set up the midfield differently in terms of player selection relative to positions and roles.

 

When I manage top teams, I personally prefer the style I call "progressive possession football". And the 4141dm wide (or 433, as you call it) is an ideal formation for that style btw. 

I know how I would basically set up my primary tactic for this Chelsea team, but I guess you would like to try to do it yourself first.

First of all, thanks for getting back to me, much appreciated.

In response to your feedback;

1: which roles should I tweak to prevent this? Keep in mind the players I have to start with and whether they can play suggested roles.

2: the 2 cm positions are an issue for me as are the wingers roles. With Kante suggested as B2B, and Jorginho best DLPM in DMC, I am not sure how to play that 3rd position.

I am new to this setup so would love to hear your suggested tactical style and player roles to suit.

[Experienced Defender]

5 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

which roles should I tweak to prevent this? Keep in mind the players I have to start with and whether they can play suggested roles

Ideally, you should have one of the CMs on attack duty, but when you tweak roles and duties - always make sure you don't compromise defensive stability. 

 

7 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

the 2 cm positions are an issue for me as are the wingers roles. With Kante suggested as B2B, and Jorginho best DLPM in DMC, I am not sure how to play that 3rd position

What do you mean by "suggested as"? 

 

9 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

I am new to this setup so would love to hear your suggested tactical style and player roles to suit

If you are asking about the progressive possession style, this is how I would set up roles and duties with your preferred starting 11:

DLFat

IWsu                                     Wat

DLPsu    MEZsu

DMsu

WBat   CDde  BPDde    IWBde

SKsu

BPD - Christensen

DMsu - Kante

DLPsu - Jorginho

MEZsu - Kovacic

Team instructions for progressive possession style are:

Positive mentality

In possession - shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box, be more expressive (and in this particular tactic, I would also occasionally add the overlap right)

In transition - start with no instructions (depending on the situation, you can occasionally use the counter and/or counter-press, not necessarily at the same time)

Out of possession - higher D-line, standard (default) LOE and offside trap

Player instructions:

striker, AMR, AML and mezzala - close down more

AML/IWsu - sit narrower

DMsu - hold position

That would be my starting tactic if I managed this particular Chelsea team. The tactic is not plug-n-play, so it would need small occasional tweaks. Therefore, you need to watch the matches and see if and when something should be (slightly) tweaked. 

If you have any questions or some ideas/suggestions about the tactic, fell free to ask or suggest 

[poma]

17 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If you are asking about the progressive possession style, this is how I would set up roles and duties with your preferred starting 11:

DLFat

IWsu                                     Wat

DLPsu    MEZsu

DMsu

WBat   CDde  BPDde    IWBde

SKsu

 

If you have any questions or some ideas/suggestions about the tactic, fell free to ask or suggest 

Any reason for a BPD on the right?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, poma said:

Any reason for a BPD on the right?

If you don't have the right player for the BPD role, then do not use it. It was just an example of a progressive possession tactic, so you don't have to literally copy-paste each single thing. Take it as an idea that should help you understand the point of progressive possession football and its difference from the slow and patient possession styles.

[SteveDavis85]

Would  the work in your opinion? The B2B could have instructions to get further forward to fill that void?

I am intent on playing Kante in the midfield B2B role in order to chase the midfield. I would also like to play Jorginho in the DMC position (similar to reality) as he can dictate from deep.

Unless you see this as a pointless task or it still would not work.

I am also looking at my squad, The GK, Defence and Strikers are set.

I have Barkley, Mount, Kovacic, Kante, RLC and Jorginho for centre midfield rotation so need to have backups for each role really.

Similarly, winger wise I have Willian, Pedro, Pulisic and CHO.

DLF(a)

IW or IF(s)                                     W(a)

 MEZ(s)    B2B(s)

DLP(d)

WB(a)   BPD(d)  CD(d)    WB(s)

SK(s)

[Experienced Defender]

44 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

I am intent on playing Kante in the midfield B2B role in order to chase the midfield

I guess you confused B2B (i.e. BBM) with BWM? 

 

46 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

DLF(a)

IW or IF(s)                                     W(a)

 MEZ(s)    B2B(s)

DLP(d)

WB(a)   BPD(d)  CD(d)    WB(s)

SK(s)

I personally would never have a mezzala and an attack-duty FB/WB on the same side, because I am not willing to risk compromising defensive stability so much. But if you are willing to take that risk, just go ahead  

But even apart from this potential defense-related issue, a mezzala on support duty would make more sense in MCR than MCL, given that your AMR is on attack duty. 

Anyway, I don't know what's your exact idea with this tactic, so cannot tell you anything more at the moment.

[poma]

How would you recommend using Jorginho in DM slot, Kante in CMR?

My idea:

DLF(a) Abraham

W(a) Pulisic                                                        IW(s) Willian

MEZ(s) Kovacic          BBM(s) Kante

DLP(d) Jorginho

FB(s) Emerson    BPD(d) Tomori    CD(d) Zouma    FB(a) Azpi

SK(s) Kepa

 

Style of play: progressive possession as above.

No Pi's.

Any tips 'n' tweaks?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, poma said:

How would you recommend using Jorginho in DM slot, Kante in CMR?

Who is your question meant for? You didn't mention/quote anyone. 

[poma]

20 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Who is your question meant for? You didn't mention/quote anyone. 

Aaa, you sorry 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, poma said:

Aaa, you sorry 

 

On 06/02/2020 at 13:18, poma said:

How would you recommend using Jorginho in DM slot, Kante in CMR?

My idea:

DLF(a) Abraham

W(a) Pulisic                                                        IW(s) Willian

MEZ(s) Kovacic          BBM(s) Kante

DLP(d) Jorginho

FB(s) Emerson    BPD(d) Tomori    CD(d) Zouma    FB(a) Azpi

SK(s) Kepa

 

Style of play: progressive possession as above.

No Pi's.

Any tips 'n' tweaks?

First off, I certainly would not use Azpi as the more attack-minded fullback. Because it's clear that Emerson/Alonso is far more useful attacking-wise, whereas Azpi is a lot more conservative type of player.

To cut a long story short, this is how I would tweak your setup:

DLFat

IWsu                                         Wsu

BWMsu    MEZat

DLPsu

WBat     CDde    CDde    IWBde

SKsu

Kante would be BWM (MCL), and Kovacic the mezzala (MCR).

For a progressive possession style, starting instructions would be these:

Mentality - Positive

In possession - shorter pass, PoD, WBiB, BME

In transition - start with no TIs (occasional tweaks include counter and/or counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, standard LOE, offside trap

And of course - a split block with the striker, both wide fwds and mezzala.

[poma]

46 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

First off, I certainly would not use Azpi as the more attack-minded fullback. Because it's clear that Emerson/Alonso is far more useful attacking-wise, whereas Azpi is a lot more conservative type of player.

To cut a long story short, this is how I would tweak your setup:

DLFat

IWsu                                         Wsu

BWMsu    MEZat

DLPsu

WBat     CDde    CDde    IWBde

SKsu

Kante would be BWM (MCL), and Kovacic the mezzala (MCR).

For a progressive possession style, starting instructions would be these:

Mentality - Positive

In possession - shorter pass, PoD, WBiB, BME

In transition - start with no TIs (occasional tweaks include counter and/or counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, standard LOE, offside trap

And of course - a split block with the striker, both wide fwds and mezzala.

No Pi's then? other than the "spilt block"

Edited February 7, 2020 by poma

[LATB]

Hi, interested in some of the above stuff but in PI's I cant seem to find where I ask them to "close down more"

[Experienced Defender]

50 minutes ago, poma said:

No Pi's then? other than the "spilt block"

Kante (BWM) - hold position 

 

9 minutes ago, LATB said:

 in PI's I cant seem to find where I ask them to "close down more"

In the pressing urgency bar.

[LATB]

18 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

In the pressing urgency bar.

All I have there are less urgent or standard?

[LATB]

Oh I see my TI closing down was on urgent to begin with!

I have reduced that to slightly more urgent and now have the more urgent option for those positions.

 

[LATB]

My current set up is thus

                 PF(a) 

W(s)                            IW(a)

         DLP(s)    Mez(s)

                 Dm(s)

WB(a)  CD(d)  BPD(d) FB(d)

                 SK(s)

 

TEAM INSTRUCTIONS

Mentality: Positive

In possession: Shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box, be more expressive

In transition: Nothing

Out of possession: Higher defensive line, Use offside trap

PLAYER INSTRUCTIONS

ST, AML, AMR, MEZ - close down more

DM - hold position

FB - Sit narrower

 

Winning games but I wouldn't say we are controlling matches as much as I'd like for a team that's better than most (on paper) of the opposition. 

Could the player trait for DM(s) gets forward whenever possible be an issue, I'm asking him to hold his position after all. 

Any advice on any of the above appreciated

Edited February 7, 2020 by LATB

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, LATB said:

DLF(a) 

W(s)                            IW(a)

         DLP(s)    Mez(s)

                 Dm(s)

WB(a)  CD(d)  BPD(d) FB(d)

                 SK(s)

 

4 hours ago, LATB said:

Any advice on any of the above appreciated

It would make a lot more sense if you played the AML as an IW on support and AMR as a winger on attack (considering the rest of the setup). 

 

4 hours ago, LATB said:

Could the player trait for DM(s) gets forward whenever possible be an issue, I'm asking him to hold his position after all

Set the DM to defend duty and then the right back to either FB on support or IWB on defend (depending on the type of player). 

And yes, player traits do affect behavior and take (slight) precedence over PIs. So that's one more reason to put the DM to defend duty, because that will reduce his tendency to go forward often (more than the "hold position" PI).

[LATB]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

It would make a lot more sense if you played the AML as an IW on support and AMR as a winger on attack (considering the rest of the setup). 

 

Set the DM to defend duty and then the right back to either FB on support or IWB on defend (depending on the type of player). 

And yes, player traits do affect behavior and take (slight) precedence over PIs. So that's one more reason to put the DM to defend duty, because that will reduce his tendency to go forward often (more than the "hold position" PI).

The thing there is my AML is perfect Inside forward/winger, I shall change him to support and the winger to attack instead ?

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, LATB said:

The thing there is my AML is perfect Inside forward/winger

IF and winger are two different roles. How can be perfect in both? He can be "perfect" in one role and good or very good in the other. 

You can post a screenshot of his profile if you want. I'll analyze his attributes and traits and see which roles suit him better or worse.

[OJ403]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

IF and winger are two different roles. How can be perfect in both? He can be "perfect" in one role and good or very good in the other. 

You can post a screenshot of his profile if you want. I'll analyze his attributes and traits and see which roles suit him better or worse.

Quick query with that. Surely a player can be good at more than one thing? In fact he could be the best at more than one thing. Take Messi for example. Surely he'd be "perfect" as an inside forward, advanced playmaker (in the AM strata wide or central I'd imagine but he'd probably also be up there in the centre of midfield), false nine, arguably trequartista, without looking at his attributes probably shadow striker, similar a plain attacking midfielder. I could go on

Admittedly Messi is an extreme example to say at the least, but similar could be applied to many many players. Without looking at any attributes right now I'd guess that Ronaldo, Hazard, De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, Jordan Henderson, maybe Dybala, and probably less so now his legs have gone abit but a few years ago Ibrahimovic too. This "perfect" logic could also very well be applied contextually to the level a player plays at, e.g. a player could be the "perfect" deep lying and/or roaming playmaker and/or regista whilst also being the "perfect" inverted wing back and/or libero at the level he plays. This could also be applied to a multitude of roles too

So I see your view that the roles the poster described are different and undoubtedly you are correct -- but this doesn't mean a player cannot be perfect at both

[Experienced Defender]

6 minutes ago, OJ403 said:

Quick query with that. Surely a player can be good at more than one thing? In fact he could be the best at more than one thing. Take Messi for example. Surely he'd be "perfect" as an inside forward, advanced playmaker (in the AM strata wide or central I'd imagine but he'd probably also be up there in the centre of midfield), false nine, arguably trequartista, without looking at his attributes probably shadow striker, similar a plain attacking midfielder. I could go on

Admittedly Messi is an extreme example to say at the least, but similar could be applied to many many players. Without looking at any attributes right now I'd guess that Ronaldo, Hazard, De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, Jordan Henderson, maybe Dybala, and probably less so now his legs have gone abit but a few years ago Ibrahimovic too. This "perfect" logic could also very well be applied contextually to the level a player plays at, e.g. a player could be the "perfect" deep lying and/or roaming playmaker and/or regista whilst also being the "perfect" inverted wing back and/or libero at the level he plays. This could also be applied to a multitude of roles too

So I see your view that the roles the poster described are different and undoubtedly you are correct -- but this doesn't mean a player cannot be perfect at both

I understand your point and absolutely agree with you. But you need to view my reply to him in the proper context - I proposed him to play AML as IWsu in relation to the rest of his setup and he replied: 

 

1 hour ago, LATB said:

The thing there is my AML is perfect Inside forward/winger

That was what confused me.

[OJ403]

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I understand your point and absolutely agree with you. But you need to view my reply to him in the proper context - I proposed him to play AML as IWsu in relation to the rest of his setup and he replied: 

 

That was what confused me.

And I did indeed do so at the time. I wouldn't have replied had I had not understood. And if I had it would have been with a question as opposed to an opinion.

I assume the guy was reluctant to play his AML as an inverted winger due to how "perfect" he is in the other two roles he mentioned, which is potentially one of the reason I'd imagine he indicated he plays him as a winger on support in the first place

[Experienced Defender]

1 minute ago, OJ403 said:

And I did indeed do so at the time. I wouldn't have replied had I had not understood. And if I had it would have been with a question as opposed to an opinion.

I assume the guy was reluctant to play his AML as an inverted winger due to how "perfect" he is in the other two roles he mentioned, which is potentially one of the reason I'd imagine he indicated he plays him as a winger on support in the first place

Might be