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Norfair

Player absent from training and doesn't agree it's poor conduct

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I feel like being absent from training is a very serious offense and a 2 weeks wages cut isn't enough punishment. There should be something else we can tell them in very rare cases like this. Also, I'm not even sure what conduct means in FM - I've told people they need to improve their conduct when they've been banned a lot but they always seem to not understand where I'm coming from.

Overall I feel like the interaction with players needs a big overhaul. It's static and clumsy the way it is now. We have four different options of welcoming new signings to the club, and I don't even know what the difference is between them. Players leaving the club, same thing, you can tell them about 10 different things and it just doesn't affect anything. Player interactions could be a lot more intuitive and useful than it is now.

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58 minutes ago, Norfair said:

I feel like being absent from training is a very serious offense and a 2 weeks wages cut isn't enough punishment.

That's because the player is a tit and has poor Hidden Attributes and/or hates your guts for some reason. You're better off getting rid of him quickly; mentoring him could backfire as he could rub onto the rest of the squad if he's influential enough. That's what FM is trying to tell you, but it's not doing a good job at it. There's no conversation option that could make your point go through him: he just doesn't care and/or has no respect for you. Perhaps on top of that, your Mental attributes are a bit low and that's why you get no respect from your players; but that's just a guess.

In those cases, you can buy time by sending out a warning instead of a fine. Reverse psychology seems to work... even if there's no actual psychology when it comes to talk to an AI. :lol:

Edited by BMNJohn

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3 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:

That's because the player is a tit and has poor Hidden Attributes and/or hates your guts for some reason. You're better off getting rid of him quickly; mentoring him could backfire as he could rub onto the rest of the squad if he's influential enough. That's what FM is trying to tell you, but it's not doing a good job at it. There's no conversation option that could make your point go through him: he just doesn't care and/or has no respect for you. Perhaps on top of that, your Mental attributes are a bit low and that's why you get no respect from your players; but that's just a guess.

In those cases, you can buy time by sending out a warning instead of a fine. Reverse psychology seems to work... even if there's no actual psychology when it comes to talk to an AI. :lol:

Interesting take on it. I can't get rid of him though, he's my star DMC, one of the best players at the club and I can't afford to lose him.

I never check my own attributes but I did just now, I have 17 mental attribute so don't think it's that, and Birinha "holds you in the highest regard as manager" so he doesn't hate me either.

I did try to warn him but it just fell on deaf ears, I don't think the conduct option is programmed to have any sort of link to what just happened with him. Another player (an even more important one at the club) was disappointed with my leniency but dropped his concerns quickly after I came and talked to him.

I think I'll let this slide simply because no matter what I do, the player isn't programmed to understand it anymore. I stand by what I said though, we need something else to tell a player in rare cases like this.

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4 minutes ago, Norfair said:

I stand by what I said though, we need something else to tell a player in rare cases like this.

I need to insist that it doesn't actually matter. :) It's not a question of being programmed to listen or not: he's the kind of guy who doesn't care. It has to do with his hidden attributes; not with the conversation options available. Your problem is that you want to keep him because he's valuable to you, and that's why you want an option to reason with him. But you can't reason nor bargain with everyone... be it in FM or IRL. Think of someone like Balotelli: it's not like he's not good, it's just that he won't listen. And such players keep finding clubs because there's always a manager who needs them.

As for how I treat such cases... there's no player that's bigger than the team. I remember I had raised as a home-grown player the best player in my save. He started complaining about wanting to go to PSG at every window, and he was driving up my wage bill significantly because every other player wanted a wage like his. I sold him anyway, and beat PSG the following season in the CL final. No player is too valuable to the team. :brock:

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How was this kind of issue handled in your agreed code of conduct?

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7 hours ago, FrazT said:

How was this kind of issue handled in your agreed code of conduct?

It just said Birinha "will be disciplined in accordance with the agreed code of conduct". This season I happened to be on holiday when the code of conduct settings news item appeared. It coincided with the Club world championship that I had no interest in going through, I wanted to get on with my silly season transfer business. When I came back from the holiday it just said something like "you have refused the code of conduct and will discipline players manually", something to that effect. I thought oh no, more hassle, but once players started accumulating bans in the league they were disciplined according to the code of conduct anyway. So I don't know what's going on there, and I can't find the code of conduct now in the myriad of info pages in FM. I can only hope he was fined 2 weeks wages. I had no manual option to fine him either.

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7 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

I need to insist that it doesn't actually matter. :) It's not a question of being programmed to listen or not: he's the kind of guy who doesn't care. It has to do with his hidden attributes; not with the conversation options available. Your problem is that you want to keep him because he's valuable to you, and that's why you want an option to reason with him. But you can't reason nor bargain with everyone... be it in FM or IRL. Think of someone like Balotelli: it's not like he's not good, it's just that he won't listen. And such players keep finding clubs because there's always a manager who needs them.

As for how I treat such cases... there's no player that's bigger than the team. I remember I had raised as a home-grown player the best player in my save. He started complaining about wanting to go to PSG at every window, and he was driving up my wage bill significantly because every other player wanted a wage like his. I sold him anyway, and beat PSG the following season in the CL final. No player is too valuable to the team. :brock:

Sure, I agree. Birinha is an ass for doing this. I'll give him a second chance though. If he pulls this again and I still need him in the team, I'll just get some sort of petty revenge later in his career instead. Like, if I no longer need him when he's around 30, I'll renew his contract for 4+ years and let him rot in the team and not even make him available for the U23.

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I dont think that the base rules of discipline allow a fine of more that 2 weeks wages anyway, so you may have to accept that as the maximum. Definitely watch out for the CoC next season because it has certainly helped cutting out the hassle from the players when and if you do try to discipline them.

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6 minutes ago, FrazT said:

I dont think that the base rules of discipline allow a fine of more that 2 weeks wages anyway, so you may have to accept that as the maximum. Definitely watch out for the CoC next season because it has certainly helped cutting out the hassle from the players when and if you do try to discipline them.

Yeah 2 weeks does seem weak in this situation and I'm also sure 2 weeks is the maximum for whatever happens. Guess I'm gonna have to play the club world championships next year, if I get there.

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2 hours ago, Jibby123 said:

I think 2 weeks is the maximum in real life anyway. 

Depends where you leave. Wage fines are forbidden in France for example. What clubs do is that they give generous bonuses instead, and if something happens they simply cut those bonuses off since they're not considered part of the wage... even though they actually are. :lol:

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Basically you have a FM ballotelli whos just a dick, that behaviour is down to poor hidden stats.

 

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I just ignore all these - interacting with the players spells bad news. It will eventually go away.

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I think it's another classic case of FM giving us options that aren't clear in what they do. I've played about with the option to criticise conduct and have no idea what it's there for. I once spoke to someone who had two red cards in five games, and he kicked off massively. So I then spoke with a player that had done nothing wrong at all, and he accepted it without question. 

I'm at a stage where interaction/press conferences/tunnel interviews and especially job interviews are all starting to ruin my enjoyment of the game. Luckily this year there's a completely fantastic match engine to distract me from all those issues ......not.

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4 hours ago, wattzy said:

I think it's another classic case of FM giving us options that aren't clear in what they do. I've played about with the option to criticise conduct and have no idea what it's there for. I once spoke to someone who had two red cards in five games, and he kicked off massively. So I then spoke with a player that had done nothing wrong at all, and he accepted it without question. 

I'm at a stage where interaction/press conferences/tunnel interviews and especially job interviews are all starting to ruin my enjoyment of the game. Luckily this year there's a completely fantastic match engine to distract me from all those issues ......not.

What I think lacks clarity, and maybe I'm repeating myself, is that FM doesn't tell you the player is just a colossal twit. I mean if it were real-life, it may be easier to read the situation. Obviously if a player doesn't think that picking cards left and right isn't a problem, you're supposed to figure out that the player may need to find himself a new club. But you need to interpret that. The best FM could do is perhaps have your AssMan tell you that the player may have some behavioural issues... if you're not the kind of person who uses the personality and media handling flowchart to figure out a player's hidden attributes. Which is a bout as much as a drag as you can imagine, but it helps answer some questions sometimes. :onmehead:

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And he’s ... transfer listed.

Zero tolerance for not accepting a fine for going awol.

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On 03/02/2020 at 20:04, Norfair said:

image.thumb.png.666c13f3eecd0fe2d0c3d7be8789ad56.png

image.thumb.png.4e8829236d0fd33c310a46fabe95e2d5.png

I feel like being absent from training is a very serious offense and a 2 weeks wages cut isn't enough punishment. There should be something else we can tell them in very rare cases like this. Also, I'm not even sure what conduct means in FM - I've told people they need to improve their conduct when they've been banned a lot but they always seem to not understand where I'm coming from.

Overall I feel like the interaction with players needs a big overhaul. It's static and clumsy the way it is now. We have four different options of welcoming new signings to the club, and I don't even know what the difference is between them. Players leaving the club, same thing, you can tell them about 10 different things and it just doesn't affect anything. Player interactions could be a lot more intuitive and useful than it is now.

I think you will find that thePFA sets limits on how much a player can be fined so that has to be built in somehow along with FFP etc'.

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