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I am really enjoying this game, currently playing Football Manager 2019. It gets me really immersed into the game. There is one thing that bothers me a little bit though. I have my games set-up as 'Extended Highlights' and was hoping I was watching a real-time simulation and player decisions rather then a pre-scripted 1th or 2nd half. I don't know why it bothers me so much but could anyone give some clarity on this? Is it real-time simulation? Or a pre-calculated simulation? If it is a real-time simulation how does the game know that a highlight will be coming up if it isn't pre-calculated before?

Thanks in regards.

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Nothing is prescipted, when you watch a highlight it literally just happened and you are watching it, that’s why you can’t make tactical adjustments or subs until the play finishes. Nothing in FM is fixed, as per SI’s comments on the subject.

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Gerade eben schrieb SakraTV:

I am really enjoying this game, currently playing Football Manager 2019. It gets me really immersed into the game. There is one thing that bothers me a little bit though. I have my games set-up as 'Extended Highlights' and was hoping I was watching a real-time simulation and player decisions rather then a pre-scripted 1th or 2nd half. I don't know why it bothers me so much but could anyone give some clarity on this? Is it real-time simulation? Or a pre-calculated simulation? If it is a real-time simulation how does the game know that a highlight will be coming up if it isn't pre-calculated before?

Thanks in regards.

The ME does calculate the match first when you see "teams are warming up", but with every tactical change and substitution the game will be recalculated. The match and highlights you see are based on the latest calculation. But even one shut can change the outcome.  So in short: the game is not scripted at all. 

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2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The ME does calculate the match first when you see "teams are warming up", but with every tactical change and substitution the game will be recalculated. The match and highlights you see are based on the latest calculation. But even one shut can change the outcome.  So in short: the game is not scripted at all. 

This pretty much asnwers my question. It is scripted until a change like shout or tactical change is made then it will re-calculate the outcome. So in a way you can change the outcome potentially but if you were to stay passive you would be watching a pre-calculated (scripted) match rather then a live view of the simulation.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb SakraTV:

This pretty much asnwers my question. It is scripted until a change like shout or tactical change is made then it will re-calculate the outcome. So in a way you can change the outcome potentially but if you were to stay passive you would be watching a pre-calculated (scripted) match rather then a live view of the simulation.

Not at all, as the AI does also make changes, so the game will be recalculated a lot. Even if you do nothing, a drastic change in a players condition will also take into account. This has nothing to do with scripted, it's a continously simulation.

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

Not at all, as the AI does also make changes, so the game will be recalculated a lot. Even if you do nothing, a drastic change in a players condition will also take into account. This has nothing to do with scripted, it's a continously simulation.

But those will remain pre-calculations rather then a live calculation of the player doing things at that very moment, if I make sense. Doesn't matter how many re-calculations the match will have, the fact remains it's not a 'LIVE' presentation of the calculations the player makes in certain situations. For one example if a player shoots at goal it's already calculated what will happen and not calculated on the spot, am I right? 

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12 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Not at all, as the AI does also make changes, so the game will be recalculated a lot. Even if you do nothing, a drastic change in a players condition will also take into account. This has nothing to do with scripted, it's a continously simulation.

Let me explain in different manner. Scripted might not be the correct word to use in here since many elements can still change the outcome, but, the moment I get to see a highlight, the highlight is a replay of the calculation that already happened, am I right? It is not being calulated live while I am watching the highlight.

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When you start each half the match engine simulates the next 45 minutes, if you make any changes it re-runs the simulation from that point on until halftime/match end. Yes, the highlights you see are all of the past, that doesn't make them any less useful however since you can still change the future, the actual match engine simulation takes only about a second. 'Scripted' is used a lot these days to imply that the thing is rigged or deterministic, it is not. Think of it as creating a new timeline every time you make a change (that bug where the game records the wrong result? Yep, it's a time-traveler!), if you hadn't made that change your midfield would have continued to be overrun and you would've lost.

Edited by gxL2o62DcgGQ2RNW
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26 minutes ago, gxL2o62DcgGQ2RNW said:

When you start each half the match engine simulates the next 45 minutes, if you make any changes it re-runs the simulation from that point on until halftime/match end. Yes, the highlights you see are all of the past, that doesn't make them any less useful however since you can still change the future, the actual match engine simulation takes only about a second. 'Scripted' is used a lot these days to imply that the thing is rigged or deterministic, it is not. Think of it as creating a new timeline every time you make a change (that bug where the game records the wrong result? Yep, it's a time-traveler!), if you hadn't made that change your midfield would have continued to be overrun and you would've lost.

That is basically the point I was trying to make. The simulation calculates the match and shows you a replay of it's calculation rather then showing u the simulation in real-time or near real-time. It loses some immersiveness for me to the game for some reason. Yes the outcome can still change so the game isn't fully 'scripted' but it isn't a real-time simulation (LIVE) neither.

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When you start watching a highlight.. yes, technically you are being shown an event that the match engine has already calculated.. though I don't see what difference that makes to us as users..

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5 minutes ago, SakraTV said:

That is basically the point I was trying to make. The simulation calculates the match and shows you a replay of it's calculation rather then showing u the simulation in real-time or near real-time. It loses some immersiveness for me to the game for some reason. Yes the outcome can still change so the game isn't fully 'scripted' but it isn't a real-time simulation (LIVE) neither.

I don't think you understand how any game works... if you are playing any computer game.... any simulation game in fact, nothing is happening 'live' ... you just get shown what the calculations under the hood have already determined.. the same thing here...

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Just now, Welshace said:

I don't think you understand how any game works... if you are playing any computer game.... any simulation game in fact, nothing is happening 'live' ... you just get shown what the calculations under the hood have already determined.. the same thing here...

It might not be an issue for you or anyone else, it just bothers me that the game is already calculated. To be honest, even the fact that the events are already calculated wouldn't mind me as much if the engine would keep calculating with different outcomes, that way you would come close to real-time simulation. I get it that in today's technology the complete live simulation would not be possible but if calculation is being made just a couple times based on a few options u have as AI or players doesn't come close to real-time simulation for me.

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To quote a SI dev member...

 

  

On 23/11/2019 at 21:17, Seb Wassell said:

Right now, a member of SI is telling you that it isn't :)

The Match Engine processes matches in two ways, full detail or not full detail. Full detail is the only type your team's matches can be processed in. This runs the match, one half at a time, second-by-second, calculating every decision along the way through countless variables, including each player's full attributes. Every time something changes, no matter how big or small, such as making a tactical tweak or substitution, the remainder of the half is re-run with these changes included. This process is then repeated for the second half, starting with any half-time changes.

The match happens live, but it happens live in seconds. The graphical engine and your chosen level of highlights allow you to watch this match at a speed from which you can ascertain what is happening and then stop it to make changes at any point you desire, forcing the remainder of the match to be run again with your changes included, either up until the end of the half or until further alterations are made.

 

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1 minute ago, SakraTV said:

It might not be an issue for you or anyone else, it just bothers me that the game is already calculated. To be honest, even the fact that the events are already calculated wouldn't mind me as much if the engine would keep calculating with different outcomes, that way you would come close to real-time simulation. I get it that in today's technology the complete live simulation would not be possible but if calculation is being made just a couple times based on a few options u have as AI or players doesn't come close to real-time simulation for me.

That's what we are telling you.. the game is determined as you play ... as you watch, every few seconds, it's run again.. thats about as close to 'live' as you can get with a simulation like this...

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The comments confirmed for that this game is even more in depth then I thought. Always preferred FIFA Manager but playing this game now for 2 weeks and really enjoy it.

For the topic starter: just compare it with playing a match of FIFA in multiplayer with your friend. Only in this game your friend is someone that sits in your computer.

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1 minute ago, Welshace said:

That's what we are telling you.. the game is determined as you play ... as you watch, every few seconds, it's run again.. thats about as close to 'live' as you can get with a simulation like this...

Well that is the question isn't it. Is it checking every second that a AI or player decision has been made to, I quote ''forcing the remainder of the match to be run again with your changes included'' to change te pre-calculated scenario? Or is it simulating every second, every move, attributes etc etc just a little bit before. So your more watching a 'delay real-time simulation'. For me it looks like the engine calculated lets say the first half, it checks on AI(manager) or Player changes. Let's say none of those would occur, the scenario calculated before would play out as it is.

The thing I am trying to discuss here is how close the simulation is in real-time. For most people this might not be an issue, so don't blame me for it when I find such a thing important to know '...'

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So, If neither manager makes any changes at all in the first 5 minutes - and you watch a highlight at 3:00 in - are you:

A) Watching a set of live decisions made as that highlight happens

B) Watching a highlight happen that has just been decided (e.g. it calculates second by second but in advance so knows what you are watching is a 'key' highlight)

C) Watching a highlight that the ME has calculated will happen before the game kicks off (albeit a big complex calculation based on all the complexities of the game and assuming no intervention)  

  

All the official responses point to C

Edited by CaptainPlanet
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C)    (assuming you mean also post-Team Talk, since that can impact players)

It's why mashing 'Make Sub' during a highlight does nothing - you're watching the past

Edited by turnip
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Just now, SakraTV said:

Well that is the question isn't it. Is it checking every second that a AI or player decision has been made to, I quote ''forcing the remainder of the match to be run again with your changes included'' to change te pre-calculated scenario? Or is it simulating every second, every move, attributes etc etc just a little bit before. So your more watching a 'delay real-time simulation'. For me it looks like the engine calculated lets say the first half, it checks on AI(manager) or Player changes. Let's say none of those would occur, the scenario calculated before would play out as it is.

The thing I am trying to discuss here is how close the simulation is in real-time. For most people this might not be an issue, so don't blame me for it when I find such a thing important to know '...'

 

When you load into a match... there is indeed an outcome decided based upon every little bit of available data you can fathom (form, teams, morale, weather, the ref, relationships, players and on and on and on) .. you should see this as how probability happens in real life too.. if you could calculate every bit of data available before a real match, you would be able to calculate a rough outcome for that match...

Once the match loads, after one second, the match is recalculated because your player has gone down by 3% fitness due to a tackle, the second after that (of the match you are currently watching), the match is then recalculated again because your opponent realised your team have gone for a really attacking mentality and they need to change to suit... carry this on for the whole match... 

There is no difference here to real life really..

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3 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

So, If neither manager makes any changes at all in the first 5 minutes - and you watch a highlight at 3:00 in - are you:

A) Watching a set of live decisions made as that highlight happens

B) Watching a highlight happen that has just been decided (e.g. it calculates second by second but in advance so knows what you are watching is a 'key' highlight)

C) Watching a highlight that the ME has calculated will happen before the game kicks off (albeit a big complex calculation based on all the complexities of the game and assuming no intervention)  

  

All the official responses point to C

Could be C .. but more than likely it's B , as even the smallest of changes means a recalculation ..

 

I think you miss the point here...  what difference does it make?  in real life, you could say that a match is already pre determined .. if you had access to all the data about player morale, conditions on the day etc.. everything.. a super computer would be able to make a determination on the outcome right?

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1 minute ago, Welshace said:

Could be C .. but more than likely it's B , as even the smallest of changes means a recalculation ..

 

I think you miss the point here...  what difference does it make?  in real life, you could say that a match is already pre determined .. if you had access to all the data about player morale, conditions on the day etc.. everything.. a super computer would be able to make a determination on the outcome right?

I'm not missing the point, I'm just clarifying for those who are asking because the responses are still ambiguous.

It depends what they class as 'smallest of changes' - if that means AI manager or player manager interaction, then it's pre-determined from pre-kickoff until manager interference.

I can completely understand why that irks some people and takes them out of the immersion.

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7 minutes ago, Welshace said:

 

When you load into a match... there is indeed an outcome decided based upon every little bit of available data you can fathom (form, teams, morale, weather, the ref, relationships, players and on and on and on) .. you should see this as how probability happens in real life too.. if you could calculate every bit of data available before a real match, you would be able to calculate a rough outcome for that match...

Once the match loads, after one second, the match is recalculated because your player has gone down by 3% fitness due to a tackle, the second after that (of the match you are currently watching), the match is then recalculated again because your opponent realised your team have gone for a really attacking mentality and they need to change to suit... carry this on for the whole match... 

There is no difference here to real life really..

 

I think your missing the point here a bit. To quote a comment here

 

A) Watching a set of live decisions made as that highlight happens

B) Watching a highlight happen that has just been decided (e.g. it calculates second by second but in advance so knows what you are watching is a 'key' highlight)

C) Watching a highlight that the ME has calculated will happen before the game kicks off (albeit a big complex calculation based on all the complexities of the game and assuming no intervention)  

 

So it is C. Yes it checks and calculates but it's not A nor B which would be more real-time like then it is now. The engine already calculated the tackle and fitness effect of it because it calculated the first 45 minutes rather then calculating every second bit in advance to be able to show highlights. Big difference here, atleast for me.

Edited by SakraTV
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Just now, CaptainPlanet said:

I'm not missing the point, I'm just clarifying for those who are asking because the responses are still ambiguous.

It depends what they class as 'smallest of changes' - if that means AI manager or player manager interaction, then it's pre-determined from pre-kickoff until manager interference.

I can completely understand why that irks some people and takes them out of the immersion.

What i don't understand is what the alternative is?

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3 minutes ago, SakraTV said:

It might not be an issue for you or anyone else, it just bothers me that the game is already calculated. To be honest, even the fact that the events are already calculated wouldn't mind me as much if the engine would keep calculating with different outcomes, that way you would come close to real-time simulation. I get it that in today's technology the complete live simulation would not be possible but if calculation is being made just a couple times based on a few options u have as AI or players doesn't come close to real-time simulation for me.

I honestly don't get why it matters to you, I thought it was kind of novel but it never took anything away from the game. You only observe one timeline (bar bugs) and you can change the outcome/rest of the match, there is no functional difference between the current method and doing it 'live'. At the start of a half you throw a dice and it lands a six, the game show you highlights of the dice tumbling around and then reveals the result, a six. If you make a change the dice is recast and a different outcome can be achieved. It is observationally equivalent to a 'live' simulation. 

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1 minute ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Then you're missing the point of the whole discussion.

No i'm not.. i get you or others want that holy grail of real time.... but you aren't understanding how a simulation works... there is no real time... there is a base for any simulation to run on even on so called real time sims... that's how computers work....

 

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1 minute ago, gxL2o62DcgGQ2RNW said:

I honestly don't get why it matters to you, I thought it was kind of novel but it never took anything away from the game. You only observe one timeline (bar bugs) and you can change the outcome/rest of the match, there is no functional difference between the current method and doing it 'live'. At the start of a half you throw a dice and it lands a six, the game show you highlights of the dice tumbling around and then reveals the result, a six. If you make a change the dice is recast and a different outcome can be achieved. It is observationally equivalent to a 'live' simulation. 

Think of it like the difference between watching a live football match, and watching one on a 1 hour delay.

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Just now, CaptainPlanet said:

Think of it like the difference between watching a live football match, and watching one on a 1 hour delay.

It's not though... 

A real life match could be said to be predetermined by all of the data points preceding the match.. team form, player morale, weather conditions ... any number of a million little details... (the butterfly effect if you like) ... it's exactly what FM does ... and it's pretty damn extraordinary how close to real time it is given the amount of interaction we as users have with that simulation as it happens.

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7 minutes ago, Welshace said:

No i'm not.. i get you or others want that holy grail of real time.... but you aren't understanding how a simulation works... there is no real time... there is a base for any simulation to run on even on so called real time sims... that's how computers work....

 

So when you say "what's the alternative?" what you really meant was "as far as I know, as a random fan on a site, who is in no way at all affiliated with SI, there isn't a better way to build a simulation other than pre-calculating the game then waiting for an intervention before recalcuating" as opposed to your actual response.

Edited by CaptainPlanet
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1 minute ago, Welshace said:

A real life match could be said to be predetermined

Only if you believe everything in life is pre-determined as a law of physics, which is a rather heavily philosophical deep question.

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4 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Think of it like the difference between watching a live football match, and watching one on a 1 hour delay.

Literally the only difference is if other people know the score.

Nobody knows the score...

 

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2 minutes ago, Welshace said:

It's not though... 

A real life match could be said to be predetermined by all of the data points preceding the match.. team form, player morale, weather conditions ... any number of a million little details... (the butterfly effect if you like) ... it's exactly what FM does ... and it's pretty damn extraordinary how close to real time it is given the amount of interaction we as users have with that simulation as it happens.

And the point is the difference in viewing experience between knowing something is already calculated and watching it happen, to watching it happen and unfold in front of you. That's why people care.

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Just now, enigmatic said:

Literally the only difference is if other people know the score.

Nobody knows the score...

 

I get if you don't care about the difference, but if you don't understand why other people feel like the experience is different, then you need to meet more people.

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4 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Think of it like the difference between watching a live football match, and watching one on a 1 hour delay.

I absolutely agree with this. It is always, atleast for me personally, more exciting to watch a live match rather than a replay. This engine basically creates a replay but changes the outcome when AI (manager) or player makes. For someone trying to be immersed this can break their immersion. @Welshace you are clearly ok with how it is now and I can understand this too, but I can also understand that for some people it breaks immersion knowing their watching a replay.

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2 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

So when you say "what's the alternative?" what you really meant was "as far as I know, as a random fan on a site, who is in no way at all affiliated with SI, there isn't a better way to build a simulation other than pre-calculating the game than waiting for an intervention before recalcuating" as opposed to your actual response.

Probably shouldn't assume someones experience with anything.. particularly in the case of me and computer simulation as it happens..

1 minute ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Only if you believe everything in life is pre-determined as a law of physics, which is a rather heavily philosophical deep question.

Pretty irrelavent unless you are suggesting SI should use any other kind of model of determining a football match other than a pre arranged set of rules based on physics ... weird comment..

Just now, CaptainPlanet said:

And the point is the difference in viewing experience between knowing something is already calculated and watching it happen, to watching it happen and unfold in front of you. That's why people care.

It hasn't already been calculated... one outcome has been, and it changes from second to second as you watch a match.... I literally have no idea what else you expect a computer simulation to be? if you could clarify without vaguely insulting anyone , that would be excellent.

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There's also the point of contention here that is what quantifies a change that triggers a recalc.

Welshace is suggesting a pre-determined event such as a tackle (that doesn't require a change in sub or tactic) is enough for the engine to recalculate in real time.

The alternative that people are suggesting is that it's only actual manager intervention that triggers the recalc

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3 minutes ago, BezorgBier said:

I absolutely agree with this. It is always, atleast for me personally, more exciting to watch a live match rather than a replay. This engine basically creates a replay but changes the outcome when AI (manager) or player makes. For someone trying to be immersed this can break their immersion. @Welshace you are clearly ok with how it is now and I can understand this too, but I can also understand that for some people it breaks immersion knowing their watching a replay.

That's the thing.. i'm trying to understand what it is exactly they would like changing.. and also trying to let people understand that if i'm understanding them correctly, then what they want is impossible.. physically..

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4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Literally the only difference is if other people know the score.

Nobody knows the score...

 

 

It has nothing to do with not knowing the score or not knowing the outcome. Let's get back to what @CaptainPlanet said. Watching a live match (knowing it's live and the match is unfolding in front of you) is more exciting (for some people) than to watch a match knowing it's a replay even though you don't know the outcome of the replay your watching of that exact match either. It's more of a psychological thing I believe.

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1 minute ago, CaptainPlanet said:

There's also the point of contention here that is what quantifies a change that triggers a recalc.

Welshace is suggesting a pre-determined event such as a tackle (that doesn't require a change in sub or tactic) is enough for the engine to recalculate in real time.

The alternative that people are suggesting is that it's only actual manager intervention that triggers the recalc

I should probably clarify that ..i meant to suggest that it was a particularly hard challenge for example that took a player's condition down significantly which would probably result in a change of any kind of sort from either manager...

 

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1 minute ago, Welshace said:

Probably shouldn't assume someones experience with anything.. particularly in the case of me and computer simulation as it happens..

And nor should you assume you're more qualified than anyone else, and attempt to talk with authority.

 

1 minute ago, Welshace said:

Pretty irrelavent unless you are suggesting SI should use any other kind of model of determining a football match other than a pre arranged set of rules based on physics ... weird comment..

It's relevant to your point that real life matches are predetermined, straw-man trying to cut down someone's relevant point by simply saying it isn't relevant and weird

 

2 minutes ago, Welshace said:

It hasn't already been calculated... one outcome has been, and it changes from second to second as you watch a match.... I literally have no idea what else you expect a computer simulation to be? if you could clarify without vaguely insulting anyone , that would be excellent.

Hence my point that you aren't getting the point of the thread. People don't believe or accept that the match is recalculated every second. And instead it's just recalculated when a manager changes something, not when any non-intervention event happens.

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1 minute ago, BezorgBier said:

 

It has nothing to do with not knowing the score or not knowing the outcome. Let's get back to what @CaptainPlanet said. Watching a live match (knowing it's live and the match is unfolding in front of you) is more exciting (for some people) than to watch a match knowing it's a replay even though you don't know the outcome of the replay your watching of that exact match either. It's more of a psychological thing I believe.

I'm almost certain everyone understands that sentiment... the problem lays when you consider what it is that you want to change in game to accomodate this... what would you want to change?

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2 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Think of it like the difference between watching a live football match, and watching one on a 1 hour delay.

I was considering making that analogy because even live television isn't exactly 'live', but decided against it because reality doesn't have any bugs bringing alternate timelines to our attention. Does a 1 second delay mean my champions league game is 'scripted'?

  

2 minutes ago, BezorgBier said:

 

It has nothing to do with not knowing the score or not knowing the outcome. Let's get back to what @CaptainPlanet said. Watching a live match (knowing it's live and the match is unfolding in front of you) is more exciting (for some people) than to watch a match knowing it's a replay even though you don't know the outcome of the replay your watching of that exact match either. It's more of a psychological thing I believe.

Does it really diminish your excitement to know that your 'live' game might be a second behind? That you might not be cheering in you living room at the exact moment someone else is?

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1 minute ago, CaptainPlanet said:

And nor should you assume you're more qualified than anyone else, and attempt to talk with authority.

 

It's relevant to your point that real life matches are predetermined, straw-man trying to cut down someone's relevant point by simply saying it isn't relevant and weird

 

Hence my point that you aren't getting the point of the thread. People don't believe or accept that the match is recalculated every second. And instead it's just recalculated when a manager changes something, not when any non-intervention event happens.

You have an uncanny habit of making a perfectly good conversation and making it personal and trying to derail it.. why don't we cut out the personal bickering?

 

Back on track...  I'm still wanting to see what anyone would like as an alternative? if you could offer anything here, it would help the convo along...

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6 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

I get if you don't care about the difference, but if you don't understand why other people feel like the experience is different, then you need to meet more people.

If you believe that there are significant numbers of people who would enjoy a football management simulation if and only if each result took at least ninety minutes to calculate, I suspect I'm not the one that needs to get out more...

 

1 minute ago, BezorgBier said:

It has nothing to do with not knowing the score or not knowing the outcome. Let's get back to what @CaptainPlanet said. Watching a live match (knowing it's live and the match is unfolding in front of you) is more exciting (for some people) than to watch a match knowing it's a replay even though you don't know the outcome of the replay your watching of that exact match either. It's more of a psychological thing I believe.

You're going to be in for such a shock when you realise that most things you see on your television screen happened at least a second before you see them, much more than a second if you're on iPlayer or similar....

Back in the real world, that sort of thing's only annoying when someone else has a faster connection than you and you hear cheers  [or if you have to carefully avoid everything your friends might be saying about a match you've recorded]

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1 minute ago, Welshace said:

I'm almost certain everyone understands that sentiment... the problem lays when you consider what it is that you want to change in game to accomodate this... what would you want to change?

Like how you stated before. Is the game engine itself changing (recalculating) every second on the calculations it made by itself rather then player or AI(manager) interventions. Because if the engine would recalculate the outcome of it's own calulations every second but a few seconds in front of the viewer's perspective, this would come very close to real-time simulation.

If I understand correctly right now the game has calculated the first 45 minutes. Based on small manager changes the match is being re-calculated and it's not organically calculating and changing data as you would with real-life scenario's.

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1 minute ago, Welshace said:

You have an uncanny habit of making a perfectly good conversation and making it personal and trying to derail it.. why don't we cut out the personal bickering?

I don't feel I'm derailing at all, and am just responding individually to points you've made. Coincidentally I think you have an uncanny habit of certain bad forum etiquette/behaviours too, but happy to put aside and move on.

2 minutes ago, Welshace said:

Back on track...  I'm still wanting to see what anyone would like as an alternative? if you could offer anything here, it would help the convo along...

The alternative is what people are suggesting, that the match engine recalcs every second instead of only on manager intervention. When a player decides to pass, it calculates right then and there who he passes to, why, and how well he executes it.

If that's too complex, too difficult to do, too much processing power, then fine that's understandable - and that could be the instant response every time someone asks this question.

But the responses are either hidden in ambiguity, or are from non-SI Staff confusing how it works and why that's how it works.

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Just now, BezorgBier said:

Like how you stated before. Is the game engine itself changing (recalculating) every second on the calculations it made by itself rather then player or AI(manager) interventions. Because if the engine would recalculate the outcome of it's own calulations every second but a few seconds in front of the viewer's perspective, this would come very close to real-time simulation.

If I understand correctly right now the game has calculated the first 45 minutes. Based on small manager changes the match is being re-calculated and it's not organically calculating and changing data as you would with real-life scenario's.

Ahh ok.. yeah currently the first half is simulated and you then go into your highlight package or full match and watch that simulation.. every second or two, anything that has deviated from the original simulation will cause a recalculation.. so yeah, it requires a change by either the user or the ai manager.. but not necessarily the big ones you notice like a sub or massive formation change etc  (at least as far as i understand it of course) ... and then obviously the second half is the same thing...

The way I see it, is that it's the only way it could possibly be done in a game..    

 

In a real life game, a player shoots wide instead of hitting the back of the net... it would depend on what you consider caused this ?

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3 minutes ago, BezorgBier said:

If I understand correctly right now the game has calculated the first 45 minutes. Based on small manager changes the match is being re-calculated and it's not organically calculating and changing data as you would with real-life scenario's.

What "organic" changes are there to recalculate? There are no fans, there is no weather. It's just you.

Every single kick of the ball is calculated. But if it didn't calculate them in advance of the highlight, it wouldn't even know when to show highlights.

And if it calculated match outcomes differently according to which level of highlights you chose to watch... that would be even worse.

 

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2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

If you believe that there are significant numbers of people who would enjoy a football management simulation if and only if each result took at least ninety minutes to calculate, I suspect I'm not the one that needs to get out more...

 

You're going to be in for such a shock when you realise that most things you see on your television screen happened at least a second before you see them, much more than a second if you're on iPlayer or similar....

Back in the real world, that sort of thing's only annoying when someone else has a faster connection than you and you hear cheers  [or if you have to carefully avoid everything your friends might be saying about a match you've recorded]

 

That's the whole point of discussion. A one second delay doesn't matter but if a match, in this case a FM match is calculating the whole 45 half beforehand it's more comparable to a replay rather then a real-time simulation or something that comes close. Yes the engine changes based on AI or Player input, but for the sake of this discussions when those inputs are ruled out, it's a pre-calculated simulation rather then a real-time simulation or something that comes close to it. If the engine would change and calculate every second rather then have the match ready beforehand that makes a huge difference for some people and I get it if other people think such things are not a big deal but thats not the point of this whole discussion.

 

No one cares if you or other thinks this topic is irrelevant, it's about the facts. Is the engine changing every second or did it calculate beforehand? (leaving out every other input). Some people find this important and want to know which one it is. Again, no one cares about people thinking this discussion is irrelevant.

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