Liverpool in a 4-4-2

[reg22]

Hi all, I'm hoping for some feedback on my Liverpool 4-4-2 tactic.

I started the season badly playing in a fairly standard 4-1-4-1 wide. I am unbeaten since switching to this tactic. So it's fair to say that things appear to be going well. But...

1. Is this just because I am Liverpool, i.e. a very strong team?

2. The CMd gets rotten match ratings, often 6.4 to 6.6 even when I win

3. In the 18 games I've played with this tactic, I've produced three sterile bore draws against moderate opposition which is not ideal

I really want to make this tactic kick-arse. 

- I'm thinking of switching the DLF and AF to get the deeper of my 2 right footed attackers on the right hand side. Either that or strengthen by recruiting a 2 footed or left footed AF in the winter window.

- Salah and Mane out wide in the middle strata is lethal, especially with a standard defensive line. I found in a 4-3-3 they got all locked up in tight spaces with the ball and with an attacking mentality they would stand on the wrong side of their defender without it.

Formation:

SKs

CWBs CDd CDd FBs

WMa CMd B2Bs WPa

DLFs AFa

Mentality:

Positive (balanced or attacking when needed).

TI's:

Play out of defence, shorter passing, higher tempo, pass into space, hit early crosses 

Distribute to CB's, Counter

Lower LOE

PI's:

CMd - mark tighter

B2Bs - mark tighter

1st Choice Lineup:

Alisson

Alexander-Arnold Matip van Dijk Robertson

Mane Henderson Keita Salah

Firmino Origi 

 

I'd really appreciate your feedback

Thanks folks

 

[Experienced Defender]

48 minutes ago, reg22 said:

I'm thinking of switching the DLF and AF to get the deeper of my 2 right footed attackers on the right hand side

If both your strikers are right-footed and you (want to use) the DLFsu/AF combo, then the DLF on the left and AF on the right makes more sense than the other way around. Because such setup allows the deeper - and more creative role - to supply the other - i.e. more attacking one - with potential killer balls from deep, whereas the AF can occasionally play cut-back passes and/or crosses for his strike-partner and other runners from deeper areas. 

We can discuss the rest of your tactic tomorrow, when I come back to the forum 

[reg22]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If both your strikers are right-footed and you (want to use) the DLFsu/AF combo, then the DLF on the left and AF on the right makes more sense than the other way around. Because such setup allows the deeper - and more creative role - to supply the other - i.e. more attacking one - with potential killer balls from deep, whereas the AF can occasionally play cut-back passes and/or crosses for his strike-partner and other runners from deeper areas. 

We can discuss the rest of your tactic tomorrow, when I come back to the forum 

Thanks so much @Experienced Defender. That makes a lot of sense, I can visualise it already. I'm going to make that change now and see how it plays out.

[Beren]

In following this post with interest since I'm trying to play in a similar way and I'd like to know the OP author's opinion and the one from @Experienced Defender, too, about my tactical setup.

Keep in mind that I'm not in any way even close to Liverpool's player level, since I'm playing in the Hungarian second tier.

My setup is this:

442 balanced (sometimes positive)

Sk-d

Fb-a NND-s CD-d Fb-s

W-s Cm-a Cm-d IW-a/s

PF-a Dlf-s

TIs

Play narrower, play ball into spaces, much higher tempo, more direct passes

Much higher LoE, much higher DL, much more intensity, play offside

Counter press, counter

Paid/OIs none

I understand that is a bit extreme, but I wanted to replicate the extremeness of a side like Roger Schmidt's Leverkusen.

I'm not really sure anyway about a couple of things, mainly the two CMs pairing (maybe BBM-s BWM-d would work better for a Gegenpressing side?), and how to play on both wings; for now I tweaked my tactic to accommodate players in it, but summer is coming up and I will be able to make changes if I need to.

If you could give me your take about this, it would be very appreciated. I'll follow with my thoughts on the OP later, now I fear I'll have to work...

Always a pleasure to discuss with you guys in this forum.

Cheers!

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, Beren said:

My setup is this:

442 balanced (sometimes positive)

Sk-d

Fb-a NND-s CD-d Fb-s

W-s Cm-a Cm-d IW-a/s

PF-a Dlf-s

TIs

Play narrower, play ball into spaces, much higher tempo, more direct passes

Much higher LoE, much higher DL, much more intensity, play offside

Counter press, counter

You failed to mention the mentality, which is always a huge factor. 

[Beren]

29 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

You failed to mention the mentality, which is always a huge factor. 

Isn't it balanced or positive as I said after mentioning it's a 442? (Yeah I get it's not the best I could do... :D).

 

Anyways, I now think I might have put the two strikers on the wrong side --> they are instead swapped (PFa on the left and DLFs on the right).

 

[Experienced Defender]

18 minutes ago, Beren said:

I now think I might have put the two strikers on the wrong side

What exactly do you mean by the "wrong side"?

[Beren]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

What exactly do you mean by the "wrong side"?

I meant that in my setup I use the PFa on the left side of the attack duo and the DLFs on the right one, and not the opposite as was initially wrongly stated by me.

[Beren]

About the OP, I think your setup is give and it's definitely something I could have come up with.

Maybe, since I assume you're trying to lure the opponent out of his half and then hit them with the speed of Salah and Mane, and since you have Van Dijk in your back four, I would go with a BPD that would try some killer balls when the opportunity arises.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Beren said:

I meant that in my setup I use the PFa on the left side of the attack duo and the DLFs on the right one, and not the opposite as was initially wrongly stated by me

Okay, what are their respective stronger feet?

[Beren]

Aha! You ask for too much, mate! I really can't say for it's been days since I last played. Moreover, I tend to rotate, my first option Just broke his foot and as I was saying summer is coming and I can make changes in the transfer market; so, let's just say I can have the best option (regarding footedness) you were thinking of.

@reg22

[reg22]

11 hours ago, Beren said:

About the OP, I think your setup is give and it's definitely something I could have come up with.

Maybe, since I assume you're trying to lure the opponent out of his half and then hit them with the speed of Salah and Mane, and since you have Van Dijk in your back four, I would go with a BPD that would try some killer balls when the opportunity arises.

Great idea, thanks

I'll also try placing the BPD on the opposite side of the AF so there is the chance of some nice long diagonals

[reg22]

20 hours ago, Beren said:

In following this post with interest since I'm trying to play in a similar way and I'd like to know the OP author's opinion and the one from @Experienced Defender, too, about my tactical setup.

Keep in mind that I'm not in any way even close to Liverpool's player level, since I'm playing in the Hungarian second tier.

My setup is this:

442 balanced (sometimes positive)

Sk-d

Fb-a NND-s CD-d Fb-s

W-s Cm-a Cm-d IW-a/s

PF-a Dlf-s

TIs

Play narrower, play ball into spaces, much higher tempo, more direct passes

Much higher LoE, much higher DL, much more intensity, play offside

Counter press, counter

Paid/OIs none

I understand that is a bit extreme, but I wanted to replicate the extremeness of a side like Roger Schmidt's Leverkusen.

I'm not really sure anyway about a couple of things, mainly the two CMs pairing (maybe BBM-s BWM-d would work better for a Gegenpressing side?), and how to play on both wings; for now I tweaked my tactic to accommodate players in it, but summer is coming up and I will be able to make changes if I need to.

If you could give me your take about this, it would be very appreciated. I'll follow with my thoughts on the OP later, now I fear I'll have to work...

Always a pleasure to discuss with you guys in this forum.

Cheers!

 

Nice

Who are you managing?

[Beren]

I took over mid season at Soroksár SC (Budapest suburbs team) in Hungarian second division. We have a pretty decent squad for the level, but awful facilities overall (first team and youth).

They were just above the relegation spots when I took over, managed to take them to 10th place as of now, but with a defensive counter 4411. Starting to think to next season and what I want to accomplish, I came up with the aforementioned setup, which I'm training and playing regularly now: results are a bit fluctuating right now. Biggest problem of course are conceding and not being able to keep a result at the end of games (I tend to change nothing or just a little during games, because I want to see how my tactic develop without tweaking too much). But I assume that is also because I do not have the personnel I really want for this tactic.

Oh, btw, yesterday evening I squeezed in three games of playing time, so I have been able to notice that my dlf is left footed and the other one (pf) is only right footed (but he's on a loan from Ferencváros).

I notice now what you were saying about the boring draws with lesser opponents, I think that that may be due to an opponent who is less willing than you to expose himself and to being lured out of his half; therefore, between two sides not exposing and waiting for the opponent to do so, the obvious result is a boring 0-0 old italian school style. 

Maybe you did so, but I'll tell you anyway: if I noticed that no one is creating chances and everybody is just waiting on the pitch for something to happen, I would put much pressure on the opponent (trusting that you're Liverpool and your players are fairly better than their opponents), in setting the DL higher, with more pressing and maybe switching to a 4231 or 433 to have more people up front to press and to force the other team in his own box.

Just brainstorming now, but could be something worth taking a chance.

Have a nice day, cheers!

Edited January 23, 2020 by Beren