Strikers not scoring - Cleon's 352 from forged the steel

[jensapro]

So I'm using Cleon's 3-5-2 from forged the steel. When I used it in the same edition of the game as he made it in (FM18?), I managed to get Blackburn promoted back to back from League 1 to the PL. 
In this years edition, I have been struggeling a bit as Ipswich. Not in terms of results, but in terms of strikers not strikers not scoring the goals.

If you don't remember, the tactics look like this:
                                  GK
               CB (def) CB (def) CB (def)
CWB (att)                                            CWB (att)
              CM (supp) CM (att) DLP (supp)
                 DLF (supp) Adv. forw. (att)

Cleon used a high line and press more, also using fluid structure I believe. As I believe you can no longer adjust fluidity, I still just play on standard mentality - and what I've done is my team instructions are higher line and higher line of engagement, that's it.
Like Cleon I also change my approach a bit depending on what's going on in the game, and even though my changes usually helps my play great football, many of the chances are my wingbacks getting free headers back post - not my strikers being on the end of them. I also think Bust the nets corner tactics are what's saving my season so far. 

When I used it with Blackburn, my strikers always seemed to be on the end of crosses, we managed to counter attack well and created plenty of chances. My strikers and my CM (a) was often the ones getting on the end of crosses and creating attacks as a unit. 
I've now gone 8 games without scoring more than 1 goal, with arguably on of the best sides in the league. 
When my strikers do score, it's usually my fastest striker Jackson (adv. forw.) being played in behind. A common theme is that when he is about to run into the 16 yard box, my dlf is the second most advanced player in the team by the half way line. 
I don't know if the roles have just changed, but a common theme is the advanced forward is getting separated from the rest of the team, and he is often struggling to connect with my dlf, who is often too deep to help him. 

I don't know if I have to change positions or roles to better replicate how it worked in FM 18, or to simply work better in FM 20, but I thought the roles in general should be working well together. DLF and advanced forward should be a solid pairing I though. So maybe the CM (a) needs to change. I don't know. I've never been great at making tactics, but I usually make them work "ok" when I have a solid base like I did in FM 18. 

https://imgur.com/a/UNPCl9S - This ended up being a goal, which is great - but should I be worried about the lack of support here?

 

[crusadertsar]

Are you sure your team is suited to that tactic? It was never meant to be plug and play, as Cleon made it specifically for Sheffield.

Also maybe your players don't have the attributes to perform well in the roles. Some pictures would help. From what I remember Blackburn doesn't exactly have a great striker force at the start of the game. Did you make any transfers to adjust to promotion?

Edited January 20, 2020 by crusadertsar

[jensapro]

Danny Graham was the main man offensively and scored a ton of headers which in the end gained the promotion. Dominic Samuel scored quite a few goals as well in League One and in the Championschip. 
I believe my main CM (a) was Bradley Dack. I've forgotten who was CWB's, but I believe Derrick Williams and Elliot Bennet played most of my games. Bennet stayed with me all the way to the PL. Dack did not score a ton, and was replaced before the PL - and I wanted to develop Costello who was a good talent. But I only played 2,5 seasons. 

As of now, Will Keane is my dlf, and Kayden Jackson my AF - as most of my strikers started off their season injured. James Norwood plays both roles.
Will Keane has got 2 goals in 15 games, Jackson 5 in 16, and Norwood 1 in 13. In the last 12 games Will Keane has 10 key passes. I don't know how good or bad this is if I'm being honest. However, these are only from 5 of the games he's been involved in - leading me to believe some of my changes might help my team "play better" and "look better" and be more in control of games (dominate more), but are hurting my chances of creating good goalscoring chances. Which was also something Cleon talked about in his post. I usually adjust tempo/passing, width and I also move defensive line and line of engagement in relation to each other. Both standard or both high to keep my team more compact. But I don't know how well this translates into fm 20 as the pressing option is not in the game anymore. 

My dlp (s) was mostly Charlie Mulgraw. Back then his passing was better, and he was more familiar with playing CM. 
Right now my DLP is Andre Dozzell, and Emyr Huws is my CM (a). Flynn Downes is my CM (s). 

Kane Vincent-Young is the obvious weakness in offensive terms, as his crossing is only 9 (yet anyways), though I usually sub on Gwion Edwards when I'm in need of a goal. I want to develop Dylan Crowe here, so Edwards might be sold in January. 
On the left hand side I've got Luke Garbutt who was already there on loan, as well as Myles Kenlock playing in rotation. 

Below you can see a couple of crossing opportunities. Looking at them now, I might have reduced my defensive line to standard - as I normally look at the distance from my defenders to their attackers to adjust this. But I don't have much support in the box, but from the pictures my CM (a) is nowhere to be seen in the box. The last picture shows me just regaining the ball after my defenders has headed out a failed cross on their part. The distance between my strikers, and sometimes the movement between them and the passing between them is what is worrying me the most, I don't often see them combine much. I went back and saw a clip on YT that Cleon posted of a counter attack, and from the 1 clip I saw, it looked to me as though the three players stayed more together - while mine split up. His CM was also more aggressive. And I remember that from my Blackburn save as well, my CM (a) getting at the end of crosses being unmarked in the box. While Graham is obviously a good header of the ball, Samuel also scored quite a few goals as DLF. Will Keane is not getting at the end of much, and when he does - it's not particularly dangerous. 

The game below ended in a 1-0 win, from a corner. 

I had 21 shots and 12 on target, which seems alright. However, the shots were divide like this:
My main CB who is the aim on corners: 8 shots
Other CB: 1
Vincent-Young CWB right side: 4 s
Dozzell (DLP): 1
Huws (CM a): 2
Will Keane (DLF): 2
Kayden Jackson: 1

They had 12 shots, 4 on target. And in my eyes only 1 big chance, a free shot in the box that went wide. Though it did not count as a clear cut chance according to the game. 

In 16 games I've won 9, drawn 6 and lost 1. Scoring 20, conceding 9. I defending well, but I'm worried - as I've said many times, about the quality of chances that I create. 


The first picture: Cross from my left CWB went to Vincent-Young who got a shot at goal, but no goal.
The second: Vincent-Young dribbles past the defender and into the box, plays a cross/pass in front of goal, but it ends up going past everyone. 


It might be me changing the wrong things during games. But I also wonder if the roles work very differently in this game compared to FM 18, and if I have to change roles or positions slightly to make it work. 
As my record is not too bad, and I'm currently sitting 2nd in the league - some might say I'm doing well. But I've only score more than once in 7 out of 20 games. And the close games are usually decided by set pieces, not great attacking play. Or maybe I expect too much xD

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by jensapro

[dreghorntwo]

 

I've missed a little time here, so i may have missed where Cleon has gone, i see the T&B site is no longer online.

 

Cleon was one of the reasons i continued to purchase FM through the years, as was this forum, the enthusiasm for tactics and this game was infectious.

 

Hope things are well.

[jensapro]

On 20/01/2020 at 20:21, dreghorntwo said:

 

I've missed a little time here, so i may have missed where Cleon has gone, i see the T&B site is no longer online.

 

Cleon was one of the reasons i continued to purchase FM through the years, as was this forum, the enthusiasm for tactics and this game was infectious.

 

Hope things are well.

He left twitter as well. Dunno if he ever explained why. I also miss his content. Best content I've ever seen for FM. Unique as well, not just the mainstream ideas and thoughts

[dreghorntwo]

3 hours ago, jensapro said:

He left twitter as well. Dunno if he ever explained why. I also miss his content. Best content I've ever seen for FM. Unique as well, not just the mainstream ideas and thoughts

 

Shame, i'm not joking in saying that this forum and the major contributors here are why i play FM.

I swear i've spent more time reading threads here than actually playing the game :).

I date back to FM05.

Thanks for the response jens.