ME - FM19 v FM20

[shaunwwfc]

I haven't played FM for a good 18 months now. Well, when I say that, I mean it in terms of a really good save where I can dig in, really get involved. I play full fat, look to start with a lower league side and built them up. A little old school player if you like. Predominantly I like to create a style of play and build it within the club. Prefer to play with a flat back three and wing backs, any formation from 3-5-2, to 3-4-1-2 to 3-4-3 - as you can probably gather, Nuno at Wolves has had a massive influence on this!

IMO, every Football Manager from 15 onwards hasn't changed that much IMHO. I could play any of them. They are all great games.

However, I need a game that has the best, solid, glitch free ME. I have 19 and 20 installed right now and ready to begin a save. If I want the best ME, which game should I go with? I want honest answers too. If I have to drop back to 19 for a more complete ME, I have absolutely no issue with this as I have heard negative things regarding 20. No ME is perfect though, as I remember 19 having its issues. But at the end of the day, wanting to base my career around a playing style means the ME I play with needs to have the least issues, rather than being better if that makes sense?

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts. 19 or 20?

[Tony Wright 747]

17 minutes ago, shaunwwfc said:

I haven't played FM for a good 18 months now. Well, when I say that, I mean it in terms of a really good save where I can dig in, really get involved. I play full fat, look to start with a lower league side and built them up. A little old school player if you like. Predominantly I like to create a style of play and build it within the club. Prefer to play with a flat back three and wing backs, any formation from 3-5-2, to 3-4-1-2 to 3-4-3 - as you can probably gather, Nuno at Wolves has had a massive influence on this!

IMO, every Football Manager from 15 onwards hasn't changed that much IMHO. I could play any of them. They are all great games.

However, I need a game that has the best, solid, glitch free ME. I have 19 and 20 installed right now and ready to begin a save. If I want the best ME, which game should I go with? I want honest answers too. If I have to drop back to 19 for a more complete ME, I have absolutely no issue with this as I have heard negative things regarding 20. No ME is perfect though, as I remember 19 having its issues. But at the end of the day, wanting to base my career around a playing style means the ME I play with needs to have the least issues, rather than being better if that makes sense?

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts. 19 or 20?

IMO if the criteria is just the ME, then neither, go back to FM15, 16, or 17

[shaunwwfc]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

IMO if the criteria is just the ME, then neither, go back to FM15, 16, or 17

Wow, really? What about 18?

[Tony Wright 747]

1 minute ago, shaunwwfc said:

Wow, really? What about 18?

No not for me

[Dagenham_Dave]

IMO, thr FM20 engine is the best in the series, narrowly ahead of 17. Couple that with the fantastic new features outwith the matchday experience, and it's the most complete game in the series to date. 

As long as you go into it with an open mind of course. If you are one of those people (many of whom frequent here) that play the game with the sole intention of picking holes in the match engine, it'll be a joyless experience. It's not going to look like real football, but it's a decent enough representation of it. Graphically, it's still poor by modern standards, but if you can get past that, then it's another excellent game in this fantastic franchise. 

[Malicious Penguin]

If your computer can handle FM20 graphically, and doesn't lag, that. Otherwise anything else.

[Spurs08]

FM20, but be sure to install the beta patch. The ME in the current official version is absolutely terrible - literally constant (up to double figures per game some times) long balls over the top of the defence, presenting one-on-one chances, 90% of which are saved.

[FlorianAlbert9]

I will wait for the patch to make a valid comparison. 

At now, fm20 have several issue. 

Then if you are the one that want only win therefore use the best tactics for the ME and doesn't care about a personal style or about the results of AI (eg. you will see the always european Golden boot won with 26 at max), the FM20 Is ok. 

 

[FrazT]

@Hazpro  I have hidden your last post for pretty obvious reasons- by all means disagree with another user but in future please watch your language and substituting letters to get round the swear filter doesn't help either

[Toonrock]

8 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

IMO, thr FM20 engine is the best in the series, narrowly ahead of 17.

Both FM17 & FM18 ME´s were light-years ahead of the current.

Besides that, there´s a gigantic hole at the moment, when it comes to picking holes in the ME; 4-4-2 is massively overpowered.

(Don´t know of course if that´s still the case with the Beta - I play Touch, so have no such privileges )

Edited January 20, 2020 by Toonrock

[ProfessionalTD]

Would also be interested in an answer and seriously consider buying the FM17. Currently I just can't see how the player attributes are implemented in the match engine of the FM20... Could the FM17 have done that better? Since I'm from Germany, I can't even test the demo of the FM17 and would need some feedback.

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, ProfessionalTD said:

Since I'm from Germany, I can't even test the demo of the FM17

You can. http://www.meistertrainerforum.de/index.php/topic,22946.0.html

FM17 to me is like football played on some other planet, as the bulk of the defending there works little like in football from the ground up. SI made a major short-lived overhaul exclusively for that release to defensive behavior, which (successfully) was meant to adress the main issue of the prior release. You may not even notice it however, in particular if you're drawn to the game mainly for varied attacking play, which FM17 in parts due to that short-lived overhaul has in spades. Try it, as can be seen, many seem to like it.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Svenc

[Rashidi]

5 hours ago, ProfessionalTD said:

Would also be interested in an answer and seriously consider buying the FM17. Currently I just can't see how the player attributes are implemented in the match engine of the FM20... Could the FM17 have done that better? Since I'm from Germany, I can't even test the demo of the FM17 and would need some feedback.

Basically the game has changed in fundamental ways if you want to compare 17 to 20. Roles and duties started being completely reworked in 19 and have continued on into 20. For example, in 17 you could not get your central defenders running up the field down the flanks to drop in a cross, you can do that in FM20 if you choose the right role and choose the right team instructions and mentality. In FM17 there was an invisible wall, no matter how you would try the furthest they would go is just inside the final third and they would pass forward and get back. In FM20 you also see how some roles even on the same mentality are playing to the role. Its hard to explain, just think of it this way - you choose a winger so you are looking at him to create chances so you would expect him to actually start driving when there are options in the box. If you choose an IF then you expect him to take players on whether or not he has support. He is expected to use his decisions and attributes to make that decision.

In FM17 frequently a lot of roles would play similar to each other, there was very little difference in them. It was also the edition where playing on overload for 90 minutes was possible and in some cases even desirable since the AI simply had no clue on defending spaces. It had one way of coming back into a game. FM17 was probably the only edition in the game since 03/04  where I could set the assistant manager to a tactic and holiday mode the whole season without having to play, knowing that certain tactics simply overpowered the AI. In FM20, unlike FM19,  changing one role within a tactic can make a massive change to your performance. The AI now doesn't really need to switch to a 424 to win anymore, it just needs to change a few roles and duties and game becomes very different. There are some valid concerns about FM20, but there are also valid concerns for FM17. They are both very different games and are playing very differently, so you unfortunately are in a very difficult place. Perhaps a 2nd Christmas present or an early birthday present is what you need, so you can get both :-)

[Mitja]

17 had really good attacking play where players and roles do what's expected, instructions worked, attributes metter you could easily spot difference in creativity between players. Inside forwards actually cut inside, now you see him dribble down the line with weaker foot more often than not. This was on higher level.

Different styles of football were well represented and balanced, counter attacking tactics were equally succeful. 17 had exellant central play which was never repeated after. Ball possession, one touch passing, one-two's and in final third was legendary.

Of course it had also negatives, like defending. It was enough to have a man advantege in midfield to win you game. That's where most of defensive issues came from. And long balls to strikers were far too easily made.

As for 20 it has many good improvements but too many issues, I would wait for final patch. Defending is very poor, finishing too. If you don't mind having 30+ shots, 10 on target every game you might actually like it. 

 

[ProfessionalTD]

Thanks, guys for your answers.

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

You can. http://www.meistertrainerforum.de/index.php/topic,22946.0.html

@Svenc I tried the variant described there, but unfortunately even if you type directly into the address line (as described) an error occurs, which is strange because this method works with the FM18.

 

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

There are some valid concerns about FM20, but there are also valid concerns for FM17. They are both very different games and are playing very differently, so you unfortunately are in a very difficult place. Perhaps a 2nd Christmas present or an early birthday present is what you need, so you can get both :-)

@Rashidi Thank you for your detailed explanations. As I appreciate your videos and your understanding of the mechanics, I trust your assessment, but at the same time I am frustrated by your answer, as once again I do not know which FM to play. Besides FM 20, I also have FM19 in my library, but that's supposed to be too easy again and Gegenpressing is supposed to be overpowered, so that I don't even want to start the game with such information. Which FM is the one with the "best" ME, based on all your experience?

 

1 hour ago, Mitja said:

As for 20 it has many good improvements but too many issues, I would wait for final patch. Defending is very poor, finishing too. If you don't mind having 30+ shots, 10 on target every game you might actually like it. 

 

@Mitja Thanks for your feedback. Yes, especially the sometimes frustrating experiences in the area of attack and defense lead me to look around after 374h FM20 for an alternative version until you could hopefully solve the problems by patch. Besides the two areas you mentioned, I am more bothered by the fact that from my amateur point of view the player attributes are not implemented correctly. Somehow it seems that it doesn't matter what value the attributes have and it's more by chance if actions are successful. This can be seen for example in the attack and defense: shots don't go into the goal or defenders don't manage to stop the opponent in a meaningful way, not because their attributes are too bad, but because the game pretends to do so via the ME. Frustrating.

[alian62]

17 hours ago, shaunwwfc said:

Wow, really? What about 18?

18 was awful 

[Toonrock]

3 hours ago, prot651 said:

18 was awful 

Only thing about FM18 that didn´t work was the three-striker issue (but then; you could simply avoid using this exploit tac). Imo, anything else was next to perfect, or at least the best ME ever been developed.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Toonrock

[alian62]

24 minutes ago, Toonrock said:

Only thing about FM18 that didn´t work was the three-striker issue (but then; you could simply avoid using this exploit tac). Imo, anything else was next to perfect, or at least the best ME ever been developed.

 

Shame we cant use old Match Engines for new games

[Gross_Ballon]

16 hours ago, Spurs08 said:

FM20, but be sure to install the beta patch. The ME in the current official version is absolutely terrible - literally constant (up to double figures per game some times) long balls over the top of the defence, presenting one-on-one chances, 90% of which are saved.

I don't understand if you don't have beta but bought the game after launch how would I even update it with the beta ? 

[anagain]

13 minutes ago, Gross_Ballon said:

I don't understand if you don't have beta but bought the game after launch how would I even update it with the beta ? 

 

It's a beta of the next patch. Easiest way is second post.

[Mitja]

how did the final 19 ME turn out?

[ProfessionalTD]

7 minutes ago, Mitja said:

how did the final 19 ME turn out?

I would also be interested in the opinion of long-term users. Was FM19 with its ME really too easy? Did the final patch have a good finish? Because my frustration with the beta patch of the ME of the FM20 was too big I started with FM19, got the latest transfer update and so far I am very satisfied with the game, even though I don't have 300 hours of playing time yet I am curious how the ME will develop and if the fun while watching the games will continue.

Edited January 20, 2020 by ProfessionalTD

[Toshef]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ProfessionalTD:

I would also be interested in the opinion of long-term users. Was FM19 with its ME really too easy? Did the final patch have a good finish? Because my frustration with the beta patch of the ME of the FM20 was too big I started with FM19, got the latest transfer update and so far I am very satisfied with the game, even though I don't have 300 hours of playing time yet I am curious how the ME will develop and if the fun while watching the games will continue.

I just did that also I need information I cant handle F20 

[ProfessionalTD]

18 minutes ago, Toshef said:

I just did that also I need information I cant handle F20 

I know exactly what you mean. Currently I gave up hope for FM20, because it's not even obvious if even with the final patch a meaningful ME will be created. The only question I still have is whether the ME of FM18 or FM19 is better. Even if this is surely quite subjective, I hope to find a helpful answer here.

Edited January 20, 2020 by ProfessionalTD

[Choccy18]

I'm playing FM16 these days, IMO an underappreciated release. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Choccy18

[anagain]

I was watching Loki Doki's latest video today and he said a very intelligent thing on that video. It was a top 5 things he loves about FM, and number one was essentially "whatever the match engine, the minor bugs or the dodgy press conferences, we are so damn lucky to have a game of FM's calibre".

He is so right. I applaud SI for making the match engine they do. It can't be easy, in fact I challenge any person on here to make anything close to what FM has. No other game can do it. They've all fallen by the wayside.

It is why I will always say "play the latest version". FM20 has all the newest features, it has the latest massive and well researched database and it has the latest painstakingly worked on match engine. Okay, it's not perfect. Wingers stop on the touchline and backheel the ball in to the path of the opposition. Defenders sometimes like to head the ball down to an onrushing forward. Some wingers couldn't hit Bella Emberg with their crosses, let alone your star striker. That very same star striker couldn't put the ball in the ocean, let alone the goal.

I saw this goal earlier though, and I applaud SI for creating a match engine that has a striker destroy the defender with that little faked step to the left before putting the ball on his right foot and slotting home. And he plays for Bangor City. Think what Messi could do...

https://streamable.com/drmh5 (how do you make a video show embedded here?)

I think that what I am saying is "Play FM20"! It's great.

Edited January 20, 2020 by anagain

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, anagain said:

I was watching Loki Doki's latest video today and he said a very intelligent thing on that video. It was a top 5 things he loves about FM, and number one was essentially "whatever the match engine, the minor bugs or the dodgy press conferences, we are so damn lucky to have a game of FM's calibre".

He is so right. I applaud SI for making the match engine they do. It can't be easy, in fact I challenge any person on here to make anything close to what FM has. No other game can do it. They've all fallen by the wayside.

It is why I will always say "play the latest version". FM20 has all the newest features, it has the latest massive and well researched database and it has the latest painstakingly worked on match engine. Okay, it's not perfect. Wingers stop on the touchline and backheel the ball in to the path of the opposition. Defenders sometimes like to head the ball down to an onrushing forward. Some wingers couldn't hit Bella Emberg with their crosses, let alone your star striker. That very same star striker couldn't put the ball in the ocean, let alone the goal.

I saw this goal earlier though, and I applaud SI for creating a match engine that has a striker destroy the defender with that little faked step to the left before putting the ball on his right foot and slotting home. And he plays for Bangor City. Think what Messi could do...

https://streamable.com/drmh5 (how do you make a video show embedded here?)

I think that what I am saying is "Play FM20"! It's great.

Was watching it tonight as well. We can nitpick (and we do, because we love the game) but it's always going to be a great game. The latest goal my pixelated players scored, gave me goosebumps, it was that good. We're a lucky bunch.

[quee]

Is the new Public Beta the same as the Demo listed on the Steam Store page? Or after installing the Demo, I had to choose the Public Beta afterwards?

I haven't bought or install the game, would like to try the new Public Beta.

[Welshace]

Just now, quee said:

Is the new Public Beta the same as the Demo listed on the Steam Store page? Or after installing the Demo, I had to choose the Public Beta afterwards?

I haven't bought or install the game, would like to try the new Public Beta.

You can't unless you have the full game..

[quee]

1 minute ago, Welshace said:

You can't unless you have the full game..

That's not very public, now is it? 

[ProfessionalTD]

37 minutes ago, anagain said:

I was watching Loki Doki's latest video today and he said a very intelligent thing on that video. It was a top 5 things he loves about FM, and number one was essentially "whatever the match engine, the minor bugs or the dodgy press conferences, we are so damn lucky to have a game of FM's calibre".

He is so right. I applaud SI for making the match engine they do. It can't be easy, in fact I challenge any person on here to make anything close to what FM has. No other game can do it. They've all fallen by the wayside.

It is why I will always say "play the latest version". FM20 has all the newest features, it has the latest massive and well researched database and it has the latest painstakingly worked on match engine. Okay, it's not perfect. Wingers stop on the touchline and backheel the ball in to the path of the opposition. Defenders sometimes like to head the ball down to an onrushing forward. Some wingers couldn't hit Bella Emberg with their crosses, let alone your star striker. That very same star striker couldn't put the ball in the ocean, let alone the goal.

I saw this goal earlier though, and I applaud SI for creating a match engine that has a striker destroy the defender with that little faked step to the left before putting the ball on his right foot and slotting home. And he plays for Bangor City. Think what Messi could do...

https://streamable.com/drmh5 (how do you make a video show embedded here?)

I think that what I am saying is "Play FM20"! It's great.

I understand what you mean, although it is absolutely pointless to challenge someone from the community to do something similar. Just because I get upset about the brakes of an Audi Q7 doesn't mean that I can and must build one myself. After all, SI does not make its games purely out of charity, but to earn money. Therefore, as a customer you can certainly expect to get a decent product for your money. As far as I know nobody criticized the database or the new features, but only the mistakes of the ME, so just what is important in a manager game (at least from my point of view).

In short: yes, the FM is unique because of its features and database -> no, that doesn't automatically make it super.

[HUNT3R]

Ah, car analogies on this forum. This forum has a special mention when it comes to these. They're always poor.

[ProfessionalTD]

3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Ah, car analogies on this forum. This forum has a special mention when it comes to these. They're always poor.

I don't care because I didn't use them for fame, but to point to a meaningless argument with a meaningless comparison. ;-)

[SebastianRO]

In terms of ME, go for FM17 or FM18. It's not even close .... FM19 or FM20 are a hard pass in all honesty,

[anagain]

45 minutes ago, ProfessionalTD said:

I understand what you mean, although it is absolutely pointless to challenge someone from the community to do something similar. Just because I get upset about the brakes of an Audi Q7 doesn't mean that I can and must build one myself. After all, SI does not make its games purely out of charity, but to earn money. Therefore, as a customer you can certainly expect to get a decent product for your money. As far as I know nobody criticized the database or the new features, but only the mistakes of the ME, so just what is important in a manager game (at least from my point of view).

In short: yes, the FM is unique because of its features and database -> no, that doesn't automatically make it super.

Is that all you could pick out of my thoughts on which version of FM to play; my questioning as to how easy it is to create the match engine? My point is that FM offers us so much because it exists and it exists because of the hard work of SI. Believe it or not, people complained relentlessly about the 2019 match engine. They complained about the FM18 one, and every one that has existed. We all still play it though. Why? Because it's FM. It is unique and unparalleled in this genre of gaming.

The reason I made that particular comment is because it is a marvel SI can build a match engine, that so closely represents football, year after year. It's why we all discuss it so vehemently. The game evokes such a passion in us all.

I just play the latest version and love it for what it is. We can compare it to cars. Look too closely under the bonnet and you'll never be happy with the l;ittle town car over the supercar. Just be pleased with what you have, and that it gets you where you want to go, and you can be happy.

I have just watched two absolutely marvelous matches in FM. When the game clicks it really can be like watching football.

Liverpool? Watch Bangor: https://streamable.com/k5zy6 (sorry for the size...Cefn Druids have one hell of a square pitch)

Edited January 20, 2020 by anagain

[GOODNAME]

Public beta ME right now > FM 19 ME

[ProfessionalTD]

16 minutes ago, anagain said:

Is that all you could pick out of my thoughts on which version of FM to play; my questioning as to how easy it is to create the match engine? My point is that FM offers us so much because it exists and it exists because of the hard work of SI. Believe it or not, people complained relentlessly about the 2019 match engine. They complained about the FM18 one, and every one that has existed. We all still play it though. Why? Because it's FM. It is unique and unparalleled in this genre of gaming.

The reason I made that particular comment is because it is a marvel SI can build a match engine, that so closely represents football, year after year. It's why we all discuss it so vehemently. The game evokes such a passion in us all.

I just play the latest version and love it for what it is.

We can compare it to cars. Look too closely under the bonnet and you'll never be happy with the l;ittle town car over the supercar. Just be pleased with what you have, and that it gets you where you want to go, and you can be happy.

I have just watched two absolutely marvelous matches in FM. When the game clicks it really can be like watching football.

Liverpool? Watch Bangor: https://streamable.com/k5zy6 (sorry for the size...Cefn Druids have one hell of a square pitch)

No. What I could read in your post was that you are thrilled to have a game like FM at all - I totally agree with that. But where our opinions seem to differ is that despite all the enthusiasm for a product, I can still see its flaws and will name them.  And no "I can't just play the latest version and love it for what it is", but that's where we are simply different. If we come back to the topic of the thread it's about which ME is better: FM19 vs. FM20 - based on your answers I guess in your case it's the FM20. -> I for my part will try the advice of SebastianRo and have a look at FM17 and FM18.

[anagain]

52 minutes ago, ProfessionalTD said:

No. What I could read in your post was that you are thrilled to have a game like FM at all - I totally agree with that. But where our opinions seem to differ is that despite all the enthusiasm for a product, I can still see its flaws and will name them.  And no "I can't just play the latest version and love it for what it is", but that's where we are simply different. If we come back to the topic of the thread it's about which ME is better: FM19 vs. FM20 - based on your answers I guess in your case it's the FM20. -> I for my part will try the advice of SebastianRo and have a look at FM17 and FM18.

I see the flaws, and indeed I mentioned the flaws. The little back heel thing bugs the hell out of me. The feeling that sometimes I get the opinion there is literally nothing to do to change the outcome of a match, and the fact that sometimes FM doesn't do enough to tell you something such as my players are bloody nervous about the upcoming match. I just played a title decider. I was level on points with TNS and all we had to do was win. 1-0 would have done it. The last two matches we had looked amazing in attack, so I just let the players do the talking. There was nothing to suggest my player's perfromance would be dire and full of nerves, indeed the team talk had them buzzing. We drew and lost the title by two points. FM never does enough to warn me of that.

There are flaws, but sometimes I feel that people look too hard for them.

I just pick up the latest FM and enjoy it for what it is. I know for a fact that when I see a bug mentioned over and over - such as the long ball and one on ones - I start to see it. I will ignore tactical errors on my part because I start to think it's a bug.

I don't believe the match engine gets worse. I think it is ever improving. What I've seen in my session of FM today shows me that is very much the truth.

Edited January 20, 2020 by anagain

[quee]

1 hour ago, GOODNAME said:

Public beta ME right now > FM 19 ME

This sounds promising as I don't find any particular problems with FM19 ME, though I only started playing after the Winter Update. So maybe I didn't noticed if there should be a problem.

[Toonrock]

3 hours ago, anagain said:

He is so right. I applaud SI for making the match engine they do. It can't be easy, in fact I challenge any person on here to make anything close to what FM has. No other game can do it. They've all fallen by the wayside.

It´s a unique product, no doubt about it - But also one of the few products on the market, where it´s processing 3-4 months, before you get the end product.

- That´s the main issue. Love the set-up, the graphics in this years edition... But as it´s been every year, there simply isn´t a finished product (first and foremost the ME).

And it seems people are getting more and more annoyed by this (my online gaming group included).

That´s also one of the reasons I think people use car analogies (e.g.) on here, @HUNT3R  -  It´s trying (in all ways possible) to describe in an understandable way, how they feel about the ´business model´. It may seem overcritical at times - but in the long run, it´s simply that everybody just wants to have a good FM-version every year, and not having to sit around "waiting" for the product to get completed/fixed, when they obviously would like to play the game somewhat simultaneously to the current season (and not wait until March, with game release in November).

Edited January 20, 2020 by Toonrock

[enigmatic]

12 hours ago, Mitja said:

17 had exellant central play which was never repeated after. Ball possession, one touch passing, one-two's and in final third was legendary.

This isn't really true though. Lots of the central play was rubbish, especially in the sort of formations that were most successful. Limited players making easy unopposed sideways passes until the opposition made a mistake. Silly amounts of backheels from the sort of players least likely to play backheels and basically no other skill movements. The dribbling was poor, except with space and pace/agility advantages. The dominant shadow strikers didn't actually run or pass particularly cleverly, they just overpowered opponents with numbers and dubious marking. The long shot and cross conversion rates were poor. 

The only thing that was particularly good about it was that you'd get a lot more possession than you could reasonably expect against a particular opponent because the opposition was awful at winning the ball back in the middle of the park, and so eventually they'd do something good with all the uncontested possession. Also played nicely on the counter, but most FMs do that. 

 

16 minutes ago, quee said:

This sounds promising as I don't find any particular problems with FM19 ME, though I only started playing after the Winter Update. So maybe I didn't noticed if there should be a problem.

FM19 has pretty static strikers except on the counter, which was annoying. 

Latest FM20 build has more mobile strikers and better dribbling but otherwise plays quite similarly so you'll probably like it. Maybe less so if you're a big fan of the creative AMC.

[KUBI]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Toonrock:

It´s a unique product, no doubt about it - But also one of the few products on the market, where it´s processing 3-4 months, before you get the end product.

Which kind of software is perfect after the release? Some are never updated others constantly. Please compare it with other games and not with vacuum cleaners or even worse CARS. 

[noikeee]

14 hours ago, Rashidi said:

FM17 was probably the only edition in the game since 03/04  where I could set the assistant manager to a tactic and holiday mode the whole season without having to play, knowing that certain tactics simply overpowered the AI.

I've seen people effectively do the equivalent of that (instant result button every game) with every version of the game... hardly unique to '17.

I'm playing FM17 and IMO the only major flaws are poor defending of the central area as defenders are lured wide too easily, an AI that is a bit dumb leaving itself too open when going forward, and overly effective runs from deep. However it feels superior in terms of passing decisions, player movement off the ball, and more realistic finishing accuracy mapping to each area of the pitch.

[KUBI]

vor 1 Minute schrieb noikeee:

I've seen people effectively do the equivalent of that (instant result button every game) with every version of the game... hardly unique to '17.

I'm playing FM17 and IMO the only major flaws are poor defending of the central area as defenders are lured wide too easily, an AI that is a bit dumb leaving itself too open when going forward, and overly effective runs from deep. However it feels superior in terms of passing decisions, player movement off the ball, and more realistic finishing accuracy mapping to each area of the pitch.

I think FM17 was only fun if you played it with an attacking style, which is preferred by the majority of FM players according to SI stats. This is a dilemma for a football simulation. Solid defending does only please a minority (as in reality, when they are watching matches), while Klopps Liverpool is the dream of most of the wannabe managers. In the end a ME will never please all people. The same as all the developments and changes in football. To find a balance becomes harder year after year.

[Toonrock]

Vacuum cleaners? - That sounds sensible  (if that´s what it takes to get the message through).

Of course software products can be more or less exposed to having to be corrected / tweaked.

And not many are perfect from release - no.

But then again (I know from people who play FIFA, PES, WoW etc.), it gets corrected relatively quick, and one does not need to wait 4 months for the end product (every year). - And one thing is that there´s errors in games, but in FM it can get really messy (like pre-Beta ME).

Edited January 20, 2020 by Toonrock

[ProfessionalTD]

9 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Which kind of software is perfect after the release? Some are never updated others constantly. Please compare it with other games and not with vacuum cleaners or even worse CARS. 

Perfectly already at the release are in unfortunately few games which is a result of the decreasing quality of the product, which gets a 0-Day-Patch on release day. I don't know if this is the ambition of SI, but in their place I would rather argue with cars than admit that some core elements of my game (like the ME) doesn't work 

But while we are already comparing with other games, you can look at the time until the next patch. Especially in comparison with Free2Play games like Warframe, Path of Exile or Dota2, problems are tackled much faster. 

Considering gladly to take the full price of a product, but to deliver a flawed product, I would rather be quieter when it comes to claims for comparison with other games. 

[KUBI]

If you read the feedback to the released beta with ME changes you find all the variety from "big improvements" to "still not playable". 

People concentrate on various things while playing this game. To make it a perfect release might be next to impossible. But you can be assure that they are trying it. But then, the more you demand the more complex it becomes. And not only the costumers are demanding , the developers too.

[Mitja]

46 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

This isn't really true though. Lots of the central play was rubbish, especially in the sort of formations that were most successful. Limited players making easy unopposed sideways passes until the opposition made a mistake

Sorry have no idea what you mean. You contradict your words. If there's one good thing about that ME it's central play, especially around the box. Was 17 really that good? No probably not. 

[sammayel666]

5 hours ago, anagain said:

I was watching Loki Doki's latest video today and he said a very intelligent thing on that video. It was a top 5 things he loves about FM, and number one was essentially "whatever the match engine, the minor bugs or the dodgy press conferences, we are so damn lucky to have a game of FM's calibre".

He is so right. I applaud SI for making the match engine they do. It can't be easy, in fact I challenge any person on here to make anything close to what FM has. No other game can do it. They've all fallen by the wayside.

It is why I will always say "play the latest version". FM20 has all the newest features, it has the latest massive and well researched database and it has the latest painstakingly worked on match engine. Okay, it's not perfect. Wingers stop on the touchline and backheel the ball in to the path of the opposition. Defenders sometimes like to head the ball down to an onrushing forward. Some wingers couldn't hit Bella Emberg with their crosses, let alone your star striker. That very same star striker couldn't put the ball in the ocean, let alone the goal.

I saw this goal earlier though, and I applaud SI for creating a match engine that has a striker destroy the defender with that little faked step to the left before putting the ball on his right foot and slotting home. And he plays for Bangor City. Think what Messi could do...

https://streamable.com/drmh5 (how do you make a video show embedded here?)

I think that what I am saying is "Play FM20"! It's great.

The attacking play is quite nice, but I have to ask why on earth the defender heads that?

He's under no pressure and has plenty of time to let the ball come down and control it

[anagain]

35 minutes ago, sammayel666 said:

The attacking play is quite nice, but I have to ask why on earth the defender heads that?

He's under no pressure and has plenty of time to let the ball come down and control it

Yep, there are some strange defensive situations in the game. But it could also be answered by the fact that he plays for Llanelli Town.