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I am putting statistics from my game.  I will edit and upload PPK from some of the games later

Premier League 13 games played Top scorer 7 goals

Spanish La Liga 13 games played top scorer 6 goals

Italy Seria A 12 games palyed top scorer 5 goals 

Bundesliga 11 games played top scorer 6 goals


After 13 games the average goals per team in Premier league is around 1.2. Most teams have less goals then games the ones from mid table. For example Chelsea has 13 goals in 13 games. They have won their last 5 games 1:0 

I am sure you can somehow check information and see compared to real life goals are scored very hard. I mean I have amazing team and I can tscore more then 2 goals to save my life .  I am 3rd in premier lague 23 goals in 13 games (I won against last team in the league 5:0 (had penalty GK sent off from him).  Usually if I concede I goal best thing I hope is for a draw. 


 

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The top scorer isn't a huge issue but average goals per game is definitely rough.

1 goal in 2 games for a player is a solid return but yes you would expect the top players to be popping a few more than that, more between the 0.5 to 0.75 per game ratio.

Edited by DukeKrostif
Wrong figures

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The goals scored per game is checked and compared with real life stats collected from the major leagues throughout the world. It would perhaps be fairer to judge these statistics over a full season before drawing any major conclusions.

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I agree with this thread as since installing the beta its become impossible for my team score more than 1 goal, Mbappe constantly rolls the ball to the keeper in 1v1s and L Martinez smashes it against the keepers chest everytime, think the beta is worse if anything.

Luckily the Ai cant score either so im winning 1 nil everytime 😴🤬😩

Edited by dcaine100

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@Toshef, your post has been removed for a level of rudeness that is over the top and unwarranted give FrazT made a fair point. Please read the house rules as further infringements can and will lead to post restrictions and bans. 

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12 hours ago, FrazT said:

The goals scored per game is checked and compared with real life stats collected from the major leagues throughout the world. It would perhaps be fairer to judge these statistics over a full season before drawing any major conclusions.

I think that is a too restrictive approach to the statistics, because, in real life, statistics are the consequence of playing football, not football being determined by statistics. I think w/d/l ratio is realistic and optimal as it should be, but on the other hand, because a compelete simulation is not really possible, and not an ultimate goal (and certainly won't be accomplished by just using statistics as then we would be able to predict the future), i feel the best way to go with the current system is then to at least do the same as with injuries, but in opposite direction, up the quota of goals to some 1.2 or 1.3 level, or if not that, put more weight on player attributes so that could happen in a more natural way. 

Reasons for this:

Avoid the heaps of frustration by most of the fanbase who play this game for goals, keep things more interesting, most of the people want to see a noticable difference between mbappe, messi utilised in a most efficient way in comparison to for say lacazzete or benzema.

Statistics don't make a football interesting game, exceptions to it do. Had many more goals in fm19 and for one my messi-like regen could score over 40 a season playing amr, or my homegrown world class striker(ca 195) breaking all records and scoring 70 during a season(this was the patch before corner exploit became a thing). That things made me play that save well until 2050's.

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Another posted posted good statistics in the feedback on general forum


He just finished a single season and top goal scorers in 90% of the leagues had 10/11 goals tops.. Other players are saying their top scorers are CM with bad longshots (thats the case with me)
Since the longball chances are nerfed we create fewer one on one and our strikers still miss them horendously 

My last game I lost 1:2 

First goal I conceded my AMR went full speed then FORGOT The ball (its like berba spin in fifa) the defender stole it organized a counter. Opposition crossed my CB did a header clearance straight into my oponent striker 0:1

Then I missed numerous situation usually end up my AML AND AMR shooting into a throw in rather then at the GK

 

I mean SI Know the situation. Same old same old. The only improvement is fixing the Longball and AMR and AML are more likely to pass but dribbling tackles clearances. Forgetting/tripping on the ball. Non stop misses .. 

 

I just installed FM 19 .

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15 hours ago, FrazT said:

The goals scored per game is checked and compared with real life stats collected from the major leagues throughout the world. It would perhaps be fairer to judge these statistics over a full season before drawing any major conclusions.

Prem League

Game: 31matches top scorer Mane 12 goals

Real Life 23matches, top scorer Vardy 17 goals

 

Championship

Game 38matches top scorer Pereira 10 goals

Real Life: 28matches Watkins / Mitrovic 18 goals

 

League 1

Game 39matches top scorer Marquis (plays for me) 12 goals

Real Life 26 matches, Toney 15 goals

 

League 2

Game 40 matches Nicky Maynard 13 goals

Real Life 28 games, Doyle 23 goals

No disrespect, but the players in the game are going to really have to go some to get close those those in real life, who have played just over half the season.  This is full detail, on the beta match engine.

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About the same number of goals scored in my save after 30 games in all 5 major leagues. Spain 19, 14, 13 (and that being Stiven Plaza, Santi Mina and Sergi Guardiola, 2 for valladolid and Mina for celta vigo), England 20, 17, 14 (Mbappe for City, Wilson, Mane), Italy 15, 14, 13 (Morelos, Piatek, Depay), France 16, 14, 14 (some regen for amiens, Okereke for rennes, ivanusec for monaco)

My observations are that top teams are struggling to make their strikers score almost irrelevant of their attributes, because weaker teams can easily render them ineffective by reducing space, and lower quality strikers get plenty of space and score normal numbers. Having a team packed with quality and high reputation will then result in lot of players not being able to shine just because opposition parked the bus irrelevant of their attributes and that is really immersion breaking for me because it's limiting to how much and by what i can judge my players performance, and i can't judge them on ME limitations. Please balance the effectivness of space reducing, it can be effective when the quality of teams is similar, (so strikers score less againsts big teams, and more against smaller teams, and in fm, because of all important space based engine, strikers score more against big teams that are playing open, than against smaller teams. Problem is that the quality of players isn't nicely balanced in this mix of space focused ME.

 

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Well, now.  Since I have been accused in here of being a fanboy ( first time for a very long time ) and being despicable and part of the problem, I would like to have the right of reply.

1. Nowhere in my post did I say that there was or wasn't an issue with the number of goals scored.

2. All I advised what the method that SI use to check the numbers of goals score in their soak tests.

3. I suggested that it would be better to draw major conclusions about the numbers of goals scored after a full season rather than 13 games.

So, how did these points, reasonably put in 2 sentences, manage to elicit such vitriol?

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48 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Well, now.  Since I have been accused in here of being a fanboy ( first time for a very long time ) and being despicable and part of the problem, I would like to have the right of reply.

1. Nowhere in my post did I say that there was or wasn't an issue with the number of goals scored.

2. All I advised what the method that SI use to check the numbers of goals score in their soak tests.

3. I suggested that it would be better to draw major conclusions about the numbers of goals scored after a full season rather than 13 games.

So, how did these points, reasonably put in 2 sentences, manage to elicit such vitriol?

That wasn't my point at all, i'm sorry if it was misunderstood. All i was trying to say is that there is a problem with number of goals scored, and more so, by who and when it was scored. It is now the 1st of May, and highest scorer in all 5 major leagues has 22 goals (german budnesliga), and mbappe following him at 20 goals. Mane is at 14, and Salah around 10. On the other hand, i'm using the best tested knap tactics, have 170ca striker who is consistent in a around 110ca league and he scored 24 in league in 33 games. Compared to fm 11 to now (every version that i owned), it seems to be statistical maximum and really low that such a player (also with vastly superior teammates) can't score against vastly inferior teams, while players that are average, have average teammates, score a little bit less (next player in league is from a team that just got promoted, has 21 goals) only because he has space to do so. I'm all for him scoring 21 really, but i feel strongly my players underperform for their ability, and other high ability players also statistically underperform because of that.

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I've posted the previous calendar years top goalscorers (only league games), and there you can see a trend-

-Most goals are scored by players great by their league standards.

-These players play in dominant, attacking teams, not average teams.

-These players have a ratio of about 0.75 to 1.25 goals per game, Messi being an exception for year 2012 i think, where he got almost 1.6, but it happens in other lesser leagues where player quality compared to league quality is drastic

Fm observations:

Top players in top teams struggle because of opposition reducing space regardless of quality

Mediocre or above average players playing for mediocre teams have no such problems and hit realistic numbers that are in line or even above top players because opposition isn't reducing space, thus working as intended by ME

 

Screenshot_20200121-154006_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20200121-154702_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20200121-154735_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20200121-154832_Samsung Internet.jpg

 

Screenshot_20200121-161309_Samsung Internet.jpg

Edited by vukigepard

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i also noticed the fewer goals in the save i continued from the official ME.

Lots of games end with just one team scoring a goal ( 1-0 or 2-0 ). I think it's because the AI teams are too good at defending and they abuse this setup.

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30th april data of the almost complete season. As you can see, it's awfully unrealistic and wrong compared to real life stats

Anyone from to SI to acknowledge it as a problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by vukigepard

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Real life statistics for 2019/20

Bundesliga: 18 games played

Timo Werner 20 goals, 1515 mins played, 76min per goal, Levandowski 20 goals, 1592 mins played, 80m/g, Rouwen Hennings 11 goals, 1429mins played, 130m/g. After that there is a lot of players of similar stats to Rouwen, about 10 goals, Sancho 10 goals, 10 assists in 1500 mins played

Epl: 23 games played

Vardy 17, Aguero 15 (only 1088 mins played), Rashford 14, Ings 14, Aubameyang 14, Abraham 13, Mane 11, Sane 11, Kane 11, Sterling 11, Jimenez 10, Pukki 10

France: 20 games played

Ben Yedder 14 goals, 1460mins played, Mbappe 13 goals (but only 990 mins played), Neymar 11 goals (only 1050 mins), then come Dembele, Diallo with 10 goals and over 1600mins played, Icardi 9 goals (899 mins played)

Spain: 20 games played

Messi 14 goals, 1260 mins played, 90m/g, Benzema 12 goals 1593 mp, 133m/g, Suarez 11 goals 1270mp, 116m/g. After that come players that are playing for non-top spanish clubs that are needing more minutes to score a goal, so they are sub 10, but overall, it's been a weird season in spain

Italy: 20 games played

Immobile 23 goals, 1568 mp, 68 m/g, CR7 16 goals, 1493mp, 93m/g, Lukaku 14 goals, 1705mp, 122m/g, Joao Pedro 13 goals, 1800mp, 138m/g, Ilicic 10 goals, 1099mins, 110m/g, Martinez 10, similar to Ilicic, Muriel 10 goals, 870mp, 87m/g

I think that we can draw the next conclusion, and i would be glad if someone could follow me up on this:

Teams that play attacking football tend to score more goals, and their strikers also tend to score more goals regardless of oppositions intent to stop them and limit their space simply because they have better offensive quality. You can clearly see that these statistics are dominated by players that play in dominating teams and play attacking football.

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This area is being worked on and tweaked as we speak to get them in line with real life statistics. Records show that on average there are roughly between 2.5-3 goals per game over a season, so this is the range we're looking at with the correct proportion going to attacking players. Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

This area is being worked on and tweaked as we speak to get them in line with real life statistics. Records show that on average there are roughly between 2.5-3 goals per game over a season, so this is the range we're looking at with the correct proportion going to attacking players. Thanks. 

Thanks, i only hope this statistic is not hard set in stone, and that there could be some variations, i've seen the average goals for major leagues and they are pretty consistent around 2.5 to 3.0 (bundesliga being an only exception with 3.28 or so last season). I'm just hoping that season averages don't hard limit how good your team players can perform, especially if there is a drastic difference in quality (for example, i develop 2 190ca strikers in a 110ca league and they struggle to perform on that level and hit the limits  around 25-30 goals just like 140-150ca players because of season averages). I know it's not directly tied with ca, but i'm just indicating quality of the players.

I'm gonna post more (i hope constructive) data soon regarding numbers of goals scored by ai against top teams and smaller teams

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After finishing the season, i've found that goals really are scored by the offensive players regularly, but there is a problem with teams packed with quality, as if me can't decide who will be the scorer without compromising the scoreline (or to say, more goals being scored), so results for top teams are mostly 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, i guess to keep in line with the goals being scored overall. Regarding the bigger picture, number of goals is statistic wise on a global level just as expected, but i think the top players are suffering because of that limitation, and teams that relly on 1 or 2 attacking above average options, score the normal numbers. 

Finished season numbers:

Premier league season goals: 1065 (38 games)

La liga: 1029 (38 games)

Bundesliga: 871 (34 games)

Serie A: 850 (unexpected lower, 38 games)

Ligue 1: 1010 (38 games)

Serbian Superleague: 820 (37 games, also lower than expected)

I also found no direct difference in regards to AI small team/big team scorers, but from my research i think there is a problem with attributes measuring hitting against some of the limits, such as goals scored.

 

Edited by vukigepard

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There's no 'limitation' from the ME - it doesn't think "only X amount of goals can be scored", it plays each game out on their individual merits taking into account all the factors. But we appreciate the analysis you've done and as said it's something we're investigating internally.

Thanks. 

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5 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

This area is being worked on and tweaked as we speak to get them in line with real life statistics. Records show that on average there are roughly between 2.5-3 goals per game over a season, so this is the range we're looking at with the correct proportion going to attacking players. Thanks. 

 

I don't understand the point of trying to match statistics.

It kind of feels like limitations are being artificially introduced. Which would explain why we've got a legion of world class saves being performed daily in the ME.

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Create a league full of players who are all 20 in attacking attributes and all 1 in defensive attributes, then see if you only get 1-0 and 2-0 scorelines. If you don't, then that proves your limitation theory wrong.

Edited by xturqz

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This is the reason I stopped playing the beta version, I understand it's kinda the point of it to fix any problems but was just making it so unenjoyable to play I gave up and went back to the current version.

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6 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

This is the reason I stopped playing the beta version, I understand it's kinda the point of it to fix any problems but was just making it so unenjoyable to play I gave up and went back to the current version.

Same, find it quite unenjoyable that my world class strikers in a world class team are cut out by awful teams playing  2dm's being organized like Inter during Mourinho no matter what i do so. When i say awful teams i'm not saying premier league standard awful teams, but lot less quality than that. Most of my scoring is coming from set pieces, long shots and penalties (22 pens last season). The scenario in most games is the following:

Teams are defensive from the start, i score a goal in the first half either from penalty, ifk or long shot, i maybe score another one  or not in a same way in the following minutes because they tried to equalize. They go defensive again, so there's nothing happening until the late game, where they again try to open up, they always concede a goal because of that (or when the me is generous, 2) , and go back into their bus parking mode where you can't do anything to them. That's the good scenario, bad one is scraping 1-0 or 2-0 because i didn't score in the first half.

I find it hard to grasp that my team which is now pretty much equal to the best as i can win champions league and did for 2 times in a row (especially strikers) are struggling to break down really poor teams that are in my league. Hell, sheriff from moldova knocked out 4th best team in the league in euro II third q round.

Anyway, as i'm not playing anymore so i'm not being frustrated, now i find it funny and amusing thinking some band of 500e per month wage players from a team which i have never heard from in my native country could constantly frustrate modern liverpool or city. Anyway, there is only limited number of instructions and roles you could give your players, but i find it vastly ineffective against teams sitting deep, be it i try knap's tactics, make my own, or give no instructions at all, results against teams sitting deep are the same, i win, i scrape.

So there it goes, conceded 4 goals in 37 games, but can't make it so i score more, even if it would mean conceding more, i've felt utterly limited. They also have huge number of passes even tho i am playing mostly in a highest possible pressing option, and i know the attributes needed for that kind of play style. They have no issues pressing liverpool or other strong teams, but they struggle to press the defending teams.

Edited by vukigepard

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Just wanted to contribute to this with an in-game example of one of the factors contributing to the goalscoring problem.

This is during a friendly, against a lower division side playing a back four and two DMs. They're not bothered about attacking. I'm playing on a Positive mentality, with an Enganche, IW(s), IF(s), and an AF. This typically results in the following:

Narrow-Attack.png

I'm not telling my team to play narrower, and the Positive mentality comes with "Fairly Wide" attacking width by default. But this isn't what I'm seeing. There is space down the sides of that defence, but my attackers make no movement into those areas, and instead stay next to the defender marking them. It's like they're marking the defender, rather than the other way around. 

Inevitably, the ball will be worked to the full-backs, because as far my midfield is concerned, they're the only players in space. In this instance, my midfielder (Alemendra) actually took a shot, which was blocked, despite no. 3 on the left being in a good position for a pass. 

Out of interest, I played the next game using a 4-2-4 DM formation, with a frontline comprising of a W(s), IF(s), DLF(s) and an AF. I wanted to see if the presence of two forwards would push my AMR and AML into wider spaces. Again, Positive mentality was used with no alteration to attacking width.

Narrow-Attack-2.png

No. 7 is my winger is this set-up, but he's not in a position to receive the ball and cross, which should be his main concern. If he's a couple of steps closer to the side of the area, my midfielder can slip a ball into him, and he'd be able to open his body out and get a cross in.

Also note no. 8, my DLF(s), who is playing in the exact same way as my AF is. Despite being an intelligent player, he doesn't recognise the space on the edge of the penalty area. Movement into that area could potentially drag a defender away, but he stubborn remains marking his opposition defender. 

The IF(s) and AF, meanwhile, remain static in offside positions. 

Tenerife v Sevilla.pkm

Edited by JEinchy

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On 22/01/2020 at 09:29, Neil Brock said:

There's no 'limitation' from the ME - it doesn't think "only X amount of goals can be scored", it plays each game out on their individual merits taking into account all the factors. But we appreciate the analysis you've done and as said it's something we're investigating internally.

Thanks. 

The biggest issue is still the 1on1's. I see enough goals from crosses and set pieces. It is very very important how you will reach the real life stats of 2.5-3 goals per game.

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On 26/01/2020 at 04:04, bleventozturk said:

The biggest issue is still the 1on1's. I see enough goals from crosses and set pieces. It is very very important how you will reach the real life stats of 2.5-3 goals per game.

We understand that and it's something that's still being worked on internally. Thanks. 

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