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Wolf_pd

[WIP][FM20] Iron Curtain - In hindsight everything is 2020

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We go back 32 years to 1988.
The Soviet Union plays two large football finals that year. They lose the European Championships final against the Dutch team lead by Ruud Gullit and Marco van Basten. Two months later they beat Brazil to win Olympic Gold in Seoul.
The next year Eastern Europe changes forever, altering the European football world as well.

What if the Iron Curtain hadn't come down?
Would Yugoslavia have won the 1992 European Championships?
Would Czechoslovakia have won the 1996 European Championships?
Would Yugoslavia have won the 1998 or 2018 World Championships?
Would Soviet teams have won more European clubtitles?

Based on the assumption that we can turn back time, I will rebuild Europe in 1988 style.

Credits based on work I already did in a FM16 build and which will be reused in FM20:
- @MBarbaric for letting me use information from his FM16 Iron Curtain mod. Yugoslavia will be based on his file, as I am pretty sure I can't do better. Changed details and errors will be because of me.
- @krlenjushka for helping me out on (among other) how to set up the Czechoslovak cup
- @claassen for letting me use his FM16 files as example to build competitions
- @sporadicsmiles for helping me out with those little things that really add to the world build
- @Reiver for the huge load of DDR information
- @Weiry for letting me use his Albania file as basis for the Albania foreigner rules

Expected Release date: 25-06-2020

Download for completed Foreign Player Rules added

23-05-2020 V0.02 adds the rules for Nations

  • Austria
  • Bulgaria
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • France
  • Greece
  • Holland
  • Hungary
  • Iceland
  • Republic of Ireland
  • Israel
  • Italy
  • Northern Ireland
  • Norway
  • Poland
  • Portugal
  • Romania
  • Scotland
  • Spain

Continental rules for

  • Europe

For a complete list of files I refer to the readme in the zipfile.

File Iron Curtain FPR V0.01 has been replaced with Iron Curtain FPR V0.02

 

 

Iron Curtain FPR v0.02.zip

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Status
Soviet Union              Final version Tested
Yugoslavia                  Final version Tested
Czechoslovakia           DONE
West-Germany            DONE
East-Germany              DONE


International nation competitions
World Cup Being Finalized
World Cup Qualifiers Being Finalized
Continental Championships and Qualifiers Being Finalized

International club competitions Being Finalized. List will follow in threadposts.

Foreign player limits in competitions - DONE
Changes in transfer rules and preferences - DONE
Players moved back to nation of origin - In Progress
Limiting second nationality - DONE

Remove Brexit - DONE
Remove VAR and goalline technology - DONE
Remove Bosman rules - DONE
2 points for a win - Being Finalized

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FM 21 expansion plans

Revive extinct Eastern Europe teams to expand competitions and play at lower levels.

Move Australia back to Oceania - Might even happen in FM20

Remove Bonaire and revive Dutch Antilles (rebuilding Curacao)
Remove Namibia and add it to South Africa - Will just be a renaming to South West Africa and removal from all international competition. DONE in FM20
Remove East Timor and add it to Indonesia
Remove Eritrea and add it to Ethiopia
Remove South Sudan and add it to Sudan

Revive South Yemen and rename North Yemen (to be decided how to do that with competitions and teams)

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33 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Possible expansion (suggestions and discussion about this part is welcome)

Revive extinct Eastern Europe teams to expand competitions and play at lower levels.

Rebuild Poland
Rebuild Romania
Rebuild Hungary
Rebuild Bulgaria
Rebuild Albania

Remove Faroe Islands as full UEFA member
Remove Gibraltar as full UEFA member

I am considering changes outside UEFA as well, like moving back Australia to OFC and some others.

There are a lot more countries that were not a member of UEFA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA#History_and_membership

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How did you Remove the Nonexistent Countries?

Cuz I was trying to make a Past DB as well

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Two ways

For testing the national competitions I have a file where all international competitions and club competitions are deleted.

For building the proper international competition I will use that same file to reactivate (undelete) the competitions one by one and build the competitions in the new setup. Oceania, the Americas and Africa will probably go quicker as they need less rebuild.

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it is great to see this is still alive. Once done it might finally convince me to buy new game. 
 

Did you think to include Spartakiada for socialist countries? I did that in the first version of mine database. Dropped it in the second because I was layz and I was afraid i'd break the calendar with another international competition. 

I never came to it, so I left Club World Cup as it was in default game, but did you think to redo that so it represents how it was before the fall of the wall?

EDIT:
Another question :D I never managed to do the languages in Yugoslavia properly. There were 6 Serbo-Croatian languages plus Slovenian and Macedon. I've made some mistake and never figured out how that happened. 

Alos, I was always suspicious that the game created too many Serbian surnames in Croatian cities. The same problem occured in Bosnia where not enough muslim surnames were generated. However, Slovenian and Macedonian cities acted as expected: producing mainly Slovenian/Macedonian surnames. 

Similar problem happened to East Germany which was recreated from Gibraltar. DDR newgens had common nationality (East German), but about half of them had German names while the other half had Gibraltarian Names/Surnames. 

Edited by MBarbaric

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2 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

Did you think to include Spartakiada for socialist countries? I did that in the first version of mine database. Dropped it in the second because I was layz and I was afraid i'd break the calendar with another international competition. 

I never came to it, so I left Club World Cup as it was in default game, but did you think to redo that so it represents how it was before the fall of the wall?

EDIT:
Another question :D I never managed to do the languages in Yugoslavia properly. There were 6 Serbo-Croatian languages plus Slovenian and Macedon. I've made some mistake and never figured out how that happened. 

Alos, I was always suspicious that the game created too many Serbian surnames in Croatian cities. The same problem occured in Bosnia where not enough muslim surnames were generated. However, Slovenian and Macedonian cities acted as expected: producing mainly Slovenian/Macedonian surnames. 

Similar problem happened to East Germany which was recreated from Gibraltar. DDR newgens had common nationality (East German), but about half of them had German names while the other half had Gibraltarian Names/Surnames. 

The Spartakiada is on my list to look at. Not decided yet to put it. 

Club World Cup will return to the old version. The current version is a joke, the new version even worse.

Naming for East Germany will be OK. I am going to revive East Germand and not use Gibraltar. I tested that one in my FM16 build and that worked well.

Languages for Yugoslavia..... Wait, aren't you the one knowing the details of that one? :D I will take a look at your FM16 work to see if I can find anything that causes the name distribution like you describe. I have made sure to add local regions and cities so I can add languages at those levels as well. Let's hope it helps. It seems to differ from version to version.

A question from me then ;)

I was looking at players and I was wondering how realistic it would be moving players back from say Austria, Switzerland and such back to Yugoslavia. Since the nation never broke up, there would be no reason to leave the country (this is obviously somewhat shortsighted, but still). What do you think of that? My first player database will be only contain moved players, but I might expand and edit the players a bit.

 

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1 ora fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

I have made sure to add local regions and cities so I can add languages at those levels as well.

I think this might be the key. I think I did this only for Slovenia. That might explain name distribution. 

Regarding languages, there should be Serbo Croatian that is spoken in all republics while Slovenia, Macedonia should have their own language (plus Serbo-Croatian at least on 80). I honestly have no idea what went wrong in my file.

1 ora fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

I was looking at players and I was wondering how realistic it would be moving players back from say Austria, Switzerland and such back to Yugoslavia.

I look at it this way: There are a lot of Yugo emigrants around western Europe so those are their children :D Like Rakitic. Besides, if you ship them back to which club you assign them?

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25 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

Regarding languages, there should be Serbo Croatian that is spoken in all republics while Slovenia, Macedonia should have their own language (plus Serbo-Croatian at least on 80). I honestly have no idea what went wrong in my file.

I look at it this way: There are a lot of Yugo emigrants around western Europe so those are their children :D Like Rakitic. Besides, if you ship them back to which club you assign them?

Thanks, will make sure to set the languages correctly.

With regards to the migrants, it will probably be a matter of seeing where a player was born. Born in Sarajevo, but being a Swiss would possibly mean move back to Yugoslavia, while a player born in Basel, Switzerland with Swiss nationality and Croat second nationality would remain Swiss. But that is after I have done most of the work. First continue on Azerbaijan and the city data.....

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1 ora fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

Thanks, will make sure to set the languages correctly.

With regards to the migrants, it will probably be a matter of seeing where a player was born. Born in Sarajevo, but being a Swiss would possibly mean move back to Yugoslavia, while a player born in Basel, Switzerland with Swiss nationality and Croat second nationality would remain Swiss. But that is after I have done most of the work. First continue on Azerbaijan and the city data.....

I think that is the best possible approach but requires patience I never had. Hope you do it better this time around. 

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Hadn't thought of that one yet. Still working on data, but will at least think about it when working on the first competition.

Will have to look at the effect as well. Don't remember what the fuss was all about.

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On 13/01/2020 at 21:47, MBarbaric said:

I think that is the best possible approach but requires patience I never had. Hope you do it better this time around. 

I have the patience, but you were quicker building. I am a bit fussy at times. ;)

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I have added all suggestions to the 'Expansion post', except for the Club World Championship. That one will be done.

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I was sad not to have an Iron Curtain database for FM19. I'd be over the moon if you could pull this off. Best of luck with it, it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

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Please, can you remove bosman rules and limit 3 foreign per country?

I really liked that feature in the old Iron Curtain (FM 2016)

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5 minutes ago, joaquin87 said:

Please, can you remove bosman rules and limit 3 foreign per country?

I really liked that feature in the old Iron Curtain (FM 2016)

Bosman rules is on the expansion list for now. It is quite easy to put when I start working on competitions, so by the time I have done the dirty data work, I will have decided if I put it in.

The foreigner limit will go in. Absolutely. For gameplay it is probably the most important. Those rules alone make for a totally different game. I have gathered a list of foreign player rules for most of the countries and you would surprised how limited some nations were.

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Nope, didn't think about it untill you mentioned it.

Interesting one I will do some googling on tonight.

And that probably means I am overlooking other stuff as well, so keep suggestions coming.

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Will all the soviet players play for USSR National Team or will they play for their own countries and just the leagues will be different?

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There will be a Soviet national team, the other national team will be removed from the game. All the competitions are  Soviet. For ease and recognition I will use the republic names in some of the competitions, but that's it.

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Amazing ! I am so happy to see this make a return this was one of my all time favorite Databases ever on FMs ! looking forward to first release !

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Another thing which I worked on this weekend is to improve porting the file over to a new version, so I won't have to do all the work in FM21, if I want to build for that game as well.

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On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 11:15, Wolf_pd said:

There will be a Soviet national team, the other national team will be removed from the game. All the competitions are  Soviet. For ease and recognition I will use the republic names in some of the competitions, but that's it.

if you enable continent and edit the nation you like.for example.Ussr or Yugoslavia how you will remove Serbia or Russia from the game? and what about the competitions they participate?

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3 hours ago, josuts said:

if you enable continent and edit the nation you like.for example.Ussr or Yugoslavia how you will remove Serbia or Russia from the game? and what about the competitions they participate?

I actually don't remove Serbia or Russia. For a good reason, when testing datachanges I need a stable country to test with, so Russia, Serbia and Czech Republic need to work after datachanges. If one of those doesn't work I know I have an issue. If you do it via reviving USSR or Yugoslavia, you never know for sure where the issue is exactly,

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13 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

I actually don't remove Serbia or Russia. For a good reason, when testing datachanges I need a stable country to test with, so Russia, Serbia and Czech Republic need to work after datachanges. If one of those doesn't work I know I have an issue. If you do it via reviving USSR or Yugoslavia, you never know for sure where the issue is exactly,

I see.So you just rename Serbia to Yugoslavia for example? which that's the an easy way I guess.Or you do something else? Let me know if you have time cause I'm interested to make my own personal database:) Thanks

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Yes, I rename Serbia to Yugoslavia and work from there.

First I move all data from Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia to Serbia (tip: do things per item category, so first cities, then local regions, then clubs, etc). After each nation that has its data moved to Serbia, I check if the game is still valid by running a 50-100 year holiday save. These are run in the night and on an high end machine, so that's easy. One thing I should not forget to mention, I will rebuild all international competitions, so for ease of testing I have deleted them all.

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1 hour ago, Wolf_pd said:

Yes, I rename Serbia to Yugoslavia and work from there.

First I move all data from Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia to Serbia (tip: do things per item category, so first cities, then local regions, then clubs, etc). After each nation that has its data moved to Serbia, I check if the game is still valid by running a 50-100 holiday save. These are run in the night and on an high end machine, so that's easy. One thing I should not forget to mention, I will rebuild all international competitions, so for ease of testing I have deleted them all.

I guess a lot of work! Well I can't wait to see your final result! Thanks for the tips! In the past it was easier as you could enable the continent and edit the nation and then you could see it participate in the competitions.But last years SI have changed things obviously:( Anyway,i will be waiting to download and play your database when it will be ready!:)

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The datawork is a lot, especially putting everyone in the right region, although the regional competition page should help with that. In FM16, I had to manually put in every single regional competition... Not fun!

Now, first let's get Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga going tonight, because then I can turn on East Germany this week and start on the international competitions.

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Nice. Even though you are removing nations will regens from some of the nations have them as second nationalities? So that their names and looks are different, such as Kyrgyz players looking East Asian and having different names, as do those from more Arab nations like Tajikstan and such.

I once did an edit like this for FM15 but clubs from replaced nations always had generic russian players, so I had to change the "Based in" for cities IIRC so that some generated players had the looks and names from those countries, like for example changing Bishkek to Kyrgyzstan based so that the players had the names and look from Kyrgyzstan.

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Namewise it should work via languages, but I have seen things change between FM15 and FM19, so that's worth a dive into the forum for those threads I remember.

Ethnicity I am not sure about. In my opinion that is something that should be editable on either nation or local region level, especially for multi ethnical nations as the Soviet Union.

I am concentrating on building competitions at the moment, but might run a few tests on people already in the meantime.

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Good news. For West Germany I have Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga running in test.

When I have a succesfull testrun I can start with East Germany.

About West Germany:

The plan is to work out West Germany competitions untill I run out of teams. I am now working out all regional competitions so I can then start adding the lower level competitions to the teams.

A future change (but probably not before FM21) is to add extra teams to Germany to allow for extra competitions like lower leagues and cups.

 

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Thank you so much for your efforts. It is greatly appreciated. Looking forward to seeing how things turn out. 

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On 13/01/2020 at 15:00, MBarbaric said:

Another question :D I never managed to do the languages in Yugoslavia properly. There were 6 Serbo-Croatian languages plus Slovenian and Macedon. I've made some mistake and never figured out how that happened. 

Alos, I was always suspicious that the game created too many Serbian surnames in Croatian cities. The same problem occured in Bosnia where not enough muslim surnames were generated. However, Slovenian and Macedonian cities acted as expected: producing mainly Slovenian/Macedonian surnames. 

Similar problem happened to East Germany which was recreated from Gibraltar. DDR newgens had common nationality (East German), but about half of them had German names while the other half had Gibraltarian Names/Surnames. 

I'll be arrogant enough to link to a thread I made last year; it has posts where I discuss name pools.

The short of it? If you want for example to have Croatian regions to generate Croatian names, set the cities' language within that region to Croatian. The flip side of that is that a player transferring there from another Yugoslav region will have to learn Croat to fit in the locker room. Also, to allow players to get the citizenship, do set all languages spoken in Yugoslavia to 100 in the country's page. Otherwise and if you leave it by default, which I believe is 95 to 100 Croat and Serb, you could have a player who say, transfers to Maribor in Slovenia but won't be able to get Yugoslav citizenship because they can't speak Croat or Serb, as they would only have learned Slovenian.

Also, the Yugoslav name pool just contains general random Eastern European sounding names, with loads of Russian/Ukrainian sounding names. It will definitively break immersion and sound like a bad James Bond Cold War movie... or Rocky 4. But hey, Rocky 4 is a fine movie too! :lol:

Edited by BMNJohn

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38 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:

I'll be arrogant enough to link to a thread I made last year; it has posts where I discuss name pools.

Yup, that was one of the threads I was referring to earlier. Another one was one from someone who made (I think) Mauritania into Atlantis.

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Testing on West Germany Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga was uneventfull. No problems.

Did notice that when building in Basic rules the relegation rules and such cannot be set anymore. Does that mean that the existing rules are applied right away (and the way SI made them)?

Anyway, on to East Germany. which needs to be done before I can start on players and International Competitions, because I need East German data to move players and to add East Germany to the International Competitions (European Cups).

Hopefully I can start on the EU Cups this weekend and then next week it is time to recreate International Competitions (which will take a while to work out correctly).

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Testing the East German and West German concurrently gave no errors and no strange behaviour. Some things to note: I left Red Bull Leipzig out of the competition and will either rename or remove the team. Since SSV Markranstädt is in the game as well, going back to that old name isn't an option.

Some more work is needed to have the East German competition in good shape, but that will follow. I have done enough now to use the file for building the cup competitions.

I have edited the expansion list as I want to focus on getting the basics right for FM20 and not put so much on my plate I end up not releasing. The following things will move to FM21
Rebuild Poland

Rebuild Romania

Rebuild Hungary

Rebuild Bulgaria

Rebuild Albania

Changes outside UEFA will move to a next version as well

Let's start with the Champions Cup and the decision who may join and who may not!

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Edit:

Game install solved. So will continue tomorrow, fixing the Cup Winners Cup.

Almost finished Ukrainian data so that's a plus.

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Cup Winners Cup is in test and that means I have decided on the fate of several nations and changes to the cups.

- England will play in Europe! Yes, you probably forgot about that, but English teams didn't play in the 87/88 seasons, because of the Heysel drama ban! Obviously it would be weird to keep English teams out of Europe, so they get back in.
- Wales only played in the Cup Winners Cup in 198/88, because there was no Welsh national competition. Since there is now, Wales has been assigned places in the Champions Cup and UEFA Cup as well.
- Israel will not play the Champions Cup, Cup Winners Cup or UEFA Cup as they only started participating in the 90's. They will play the Intertoto Cup though, as they were playing there already since the 70s.
- The Intertoto cup will consist of 34 teams (at this moment) that will play a summer competition in groups. There will be no knockout section of this competition. Maybe I will allow some of the minnows (see below) to join in to make up the numbers. Afterall, Liechtenstein was already part of UEFA in 1974 and San Marino joined in 1988. Both teams just didn't play international and international cup games at the time.
- Andorra, Liechtenstein, Faroe Islands, Gibraltar and San Marino joined in on the European matches later on and won't be allowed to join in. If I find out an option (highly unlikely) to expand the European cups on a later date, like what it possible in national competition, I will try to get that working.

While the Cup Winners Cup is running, I will finish the Soviet data. With a bit of luck the European cups are finished this week.

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never knew the minors never participated in european cups. 

Intertoto is good adddition, but will it mess with holidays since it is played in the summer? 

Did you decide on points per game? I completely forgot about that but it would be fun to have at least some league played on 2 points per win. When doing my database, I frequently mixed rules. i.e. foreign rule in Wester Europe was 3 players allowed while Eastern Europe went from more liberal Czechoslovakia that allowed 3 to completely closed albania who, if I record correctly, didn't allow any. Same with number of substitutes and age when players could move out of the country (28 YUG, 31 DDR). In my head I explained it with different levels of openness towards the rest of the world for the socialist countries.

One minor thing I also never managed to get to work. I simply renamed Serbia to Yugoslavia, as you'll probably do, but this resulted with Yugoslavia having only 8M inhabitants (true for Serbia). I could never change that to 24M Yugoslavia actually had. It is a minor thing though.

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Intertoto will mess up the holiday for one team per country, so not much of an issue. Also, it runs partly in the practice part of the season. I have to build it still and data is lacking (once again in this era). We should have had internet in that time.

I have found an overview of when which leagues started with 3 points instead of two, so when I start with the X foreigner stuff I will incorporate that as well. I haven't seen that as option for basic rules, so guess that's advanced rules.

There is an interesting rule you might have missed as well. East German players didn't count as foreign in West Germany. Which, if you think of it isn't surprsing. I don't know how that applied in European games though, but..... since Germany had tighter foreigner rules for a while, I might be lucky with that one.

It takes a bit of digging and some lucky finds to find out which country allowed what. I managed to find the rules of the Soviet Union in a book about the Dutch team that won the EC88! A Russian player was quoted there as not being allowed to leave the country untill 30. Also, football results from a certain site helped (forgot the link for the moment). I made an educated guess based on the football results and the team sheets for all games during several seasons. Takes a while, but you have to do something when bored at work :D

The Yugoslavia inhabitants number can't be fixed. The editor will error when you do that even if you have made it editable. Probably hardcoded. Either Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union had the correct number so could be an option to move all data over, but that would be a lot of hassle for a single detail.

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The good news is that all European Cups are build and tested. The bad news is that the editor contains a bug which can only be solved by upgrading these competitions to Advanced Rules. Which probably also means the other international competitions will ultimately be build in advanced rules as well. I can use what I have build for now, even though it is not working perfectly OK.

Anyway, the Soviet data is in test. If that test is succesfull, I will build the two top Soviet divisions in basic rules and testrun those. This weekend is Yugoslavia weekend and next weekend Czechoslovakia weekend. That way I should have all national competitions working in basic rules half February. Because of the EC cup bug, I have stopped with the international competitions, because I need to study a bit more on advanced rules. That work will resume after Czechoslovakia and is planned for March. In April I should be busy with detailwork.

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The Soviet competition is done for the first and second level and I am now working on Yugoslavia. Serbia and Kosovo are already done, Slovenia is in progress. I should be able to start testing that one on Sunday. Make that Saturday, data test is running at the moment.

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On 13/01/2020 at 19:50, MBarbaric said:

I think this might be the key. I think I did this only for Slovenia. That might explain name distribution. 

I am working on the Slovenia data right now and almost all Slovenian city/village has a language assigned, so that will probably explain what you saw. That will mean a bit more language work, but that is OK and part of the detailing work.

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Datawork for Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia is done. For both countries I need to build the competitions (first/second level) in basic rules and test. If those works, the groundwork for national competitions is done.

That means I have 3 more weeks to properly build the national competitions in Advanced Rules! For now I will only build division level 1 and 2 and main cups for West-Germany, East-Germany, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

I will also start on editing out Brexit and VAR, edit in foreigner rules, transfer tendencies and 2 points for a win where applicable.

I might evenstart posting screenshots ;) 

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On ‎02‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 22:48, Wolf_pd said:

Datawork for Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia is done. For both countries I need to build the competitions (first/second level) in basic rules and test. If those works, the groundwork for national competitions is done.

That means I have 3 more weeks to properly build the national competitions in Advanced Rules! For now I will only build division level 1 and 2 and main cups for West-Germany, East-Germany, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

I will also start on editing out Brexit and VAR, edit in foreigner rules, transfer tendencies and 2 points for a win where applicable.

I might evenstart posting screenshots ;) 

I'm fond of your work and can't wait to see the results!:) In the meantime I had made my own database making Yugoslavia(rename Serbia).Not so detailed like the project you make as I want to use it for my own pleasure only.I want to ask you if you have time and if I can send it to you so you can have a look and tell me what I can change and so on.Im sorry that I ask that but my laptop isn't that powerful so I'm not able to test and test and things like that.Thank you!

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3 hours ago, josuts said:

I'm fond of your work and can't wait to see the results!:) In the meantime I had made my own database making Yugoslavia(rename Serbia).Not so detailed like the project you make as I want to use it for my own pleasure only.I want to ask you if you have time and if I can send it to you so you can have a look and tell me what I can change and so on.Im sorry that I ask that but my laptop isn't that powerful so I'm not able to test and test and things like that.Thank you!

You do realise that a request like that takes away valuable editing time ;)

Send a PM with files and what you have in mind as possible changes and we will discuss privately. We can talk about things like testing and such as well.

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