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DoQmentz

Someone took "David vs. Goliath" too much to heart

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David beating the Giant.

The small fry reigning supreme over the big fish.

Again. And again. And again...

I don't know about you people, but I'm experiencing a lot of "Sunday league team beating Barcelona and friends 11-0"-type scenarios. But only if I play the "big fish" in question.

In the Bundesliga, I played Köln as I'm a fan of the club and expected to head straight to demotion brawls. Funny enough, I find myself contesting for the UCL spots again and again.

So far so good. But I haven't won a SINGLE game against the top guesses for demotion. Not once. And it confuses me.

The worst experiences are those with Paderborn. Expected to be demoting at the bottom of the table, which they always do aswell, I'm constantly having games like

Köln 20% - 80% Paderborn Possession, Köln 3 - 17 Paderborn shots, Köln 0 - 5 Paderborn result.

Then, I'd go on to win 2-1 against Dortmund and the like, all while in fear of seeing another demotion candidate come up as the next fixture.

I don't expect to win every game, not in the slightest. I just don't understand the dominance of the smaller teams at all.

I've tried a ton of crap, of which nothing really worked. Just wanted to see if any of you lot experience the same type of trauma in the game.

And if not, I'm probably doing something wrong. Or maybe, I've installed some sort of Phillistine underdog story mod ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Cheers,

DoQmentz

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I can only assume, that your tactic is an aggressive, play into space type tactic, which has the potential to catch the bigger teams unaware when they try and attack you, but can leave you vulnerable to being countered by smaller teams, hence the results you are seeing

this is just a guess though

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8 hours ago, DoQmentz said:

David beating the Giant.

The small fry reigning supreme over the big fish.

Again. And again. And again...

I don't know about you people, but I'm experiencing a lot of "Sunday league team beating Barcelona and friends 11-0"-type scenarios. But only if I play the "big fish" in question.

In the Bundesliga, I played Köln as I'm a fan of the club and expected to head straight to demotion brawls. Funny enough, I find myself contesting for the UCL spots again and again.

So far so good. But I haven't won a SINGLE game against the top guesses for demotion. Not once. And it confuses me.

The worst experiences are those with Paderborn. Expected to be demoting at the bottom of the table, which they always do aswell, I'm constantly having games like

Köln 20% - 80% Paderborn Possession, Köln 3 - 17 Paderborn shots, Köln 0 - 5 Paderborn result.

Then, I'd go on to win 2-1 against Dortmund and the like, all while in fear of seeing another demotion candidate come up as the next fixture.

I don't expect to win every game, not in the slightest. I just don't understand the dominance of the smaller teams at all.

I've tried a ton of crap, of which nothing really worked. Just wanted to see if any of you lot experience the same type of trauma in the game.

And if not, I'm probably doing something wrong. Or maybe, I've installed some sort of Phillistine underdog story mod ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Cheers,

DoQmentz

Yes me and my friend are seeing this as well. I just hope they look at this too. If your team doesnt play demotivated its the finishing that lets you down. It is realistic that games against defending underdogs are hard but not in this way. This years fm have taken it a bit too far and AI is strungling with it as well. Just take a look your leagues 5-10 last games where relegation fighting teams play agains higher position teams. Bad finishing and super GK's in this ME make underdogs even better because if you play attack or positive mentality as favorite team and cant get a goal ME counts soon there will be punishment coming for missing CCC or HCC. 

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you might need to use totally different approach against teams that defend deep and plays catious, proper attacking tactics maybe. you need to be carefull with duties selection especially against formations that have man advantage in midfield. for example do you really need a DM on defend in your 433 against opposition playing single striker formation...

Bigger issue and many people noticed this is playing against bigger teams even top teams too easy actually. Hopefully we see some improvements being made when new patch comes out but this issue has always been in fm, for example defensive teams dominating possession against much stronger one and it is even more pronounced in AI vs AI games.  

Edited by Mitja

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11 hours ago, DoQmentz said:

Phillistine underdog story mod

Best description ever!

I leave both lines (defensive/engagement) on standard and don't press as much in order to lure them out a bit and I seem to enjoy a bit of success against them now.

Unfortunately, I still see very low conversion of big chances by all sides compared to real life, loads of missed penalties (8 consecutive by Messi in an abandoned in rage save) and idiotic defending movement. The representation of my team's tactics on this ME is making the match very confusing because it is very difficult to read. Most of the conceding seems to come through set pieces, over the top balls of immense accuracy & when under pressure where world class defenders first instinct is to split apart and then chase after the ball and all of your wide players crossing plays exactly the same way (they dribble past their man and rather than crossing they wait for their man to come back and knock it on him to win a corner) irrespective of whether I told them to go to the byline or hit early crosses. 

My assistant manager at Liverpool once advised me to start my next match against Dover Athletic (from the conference league) on a cautious/defensive mentality. I feel like the game is trying to tell me that absolutely everything it taught you in previous versions on how to win is now completely worthless. 

However, I watch every match now from beginning to end and act on what I see all the time because I don't trust my players anymore to act as per the roles insinuate they would act. I'm only using basic roles/duties and very basic team instructions and then during the match I make the changes I would have made when creating my tactic and it's working a lot better.

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On 12/01/2020 at 02:20, FMunderachiever said:

I can only assume, that your tactic is an aggressive, play into space type tactic, which has the potential to catch the bigger teams unaware when they try and attack you, but can leave you vulnerable to being countered by smaller teams

Partly right. I usually let my team play an aggresive, tiki-taka-ish type of football. And using that playstyle resulted in the worst outcome, you are definitely right about that. I did, however, change and adapt the tactic accordingly when facing a clear underdog, multiple times. It went so far that I loaded up an older state of the save a couple weeks back, had the team train a more defensive, controlling and counter-avoiding tactic, which didn't do quite a lot aswell. I can only assume that this cannot be attended, after all it isn't only them exploiting our style of football, they just play asbolsutely out of their minds every time. Weird, but aye ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

On 12/01/2020 at 10:12, Pasonen said:

It is realistic that games against defending underdogs are hard but not in this way.

Exactly. The outcome of those type of games in real life will mostly have a high possession on the end of the bigger team, aswell as more shots and probably more shots on target for them aswell. The underdogs in this, no matter if win or lose, will almost NEVER dominate the game in statistics, it's either counterattacks or corners/freekicks that result in goals. In the game, they completely clobber the player's team, having all the possession and disgusting amounts of shots. I have nothing against underdogs winning, quite the opposite actually. This is just...going too far, in the sense that nothing I, as a coach, can do, will have any impact whatsoever. They just win. That's all there is. At least, that's what it feels like, quite frustrating.

 

It's both good and sad to see I'm not just being stupid here. This seems to be an issue, and adressing it would be much obliged. Though, it isn't an immense problem to me. Yes, it costs the player valuable points, but in a way it slightly mixes up the ever-so-boring demotion brawl. I've always been the type for drama in my saves, and if the bottom of the table doesn't just pile up all the obvious candidates, that's honestly not too bad. Nice to hear your pennies on the matter, though. I apprechiate it!

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2 hours ago, DoQmentz said:

I did, however, change and adapt the tactic accordingly when facing a clear underdog, multiple times.

I like to play near balance/positive safe but effective mentality and tactic. One thing I allways look with special care can i play with Get stuck in instruction. In some games like against underdogs who go all in for set pieces get stuck in can be very hurtfull for team and result.

My problem against underdogs have been bad performance, meaning below par performance from whole team and i have tried both styles in team talk. Expect to win and no pressure. Both didnt go well. :D this might be that my players are not that good and even our season expectations are not high.

Edited by Pasonen

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Without posting an example of the way you play against these lower sides, it is impossible to know how to make it better. However conceding 80% possession screams that something is drastically wrong with how you approach these games. Even if you are not always winning, you should be dominating weaker sides.

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