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Start a save or wait for proper update?


Start first save or wait for a proper update?  

89 members have voted

  1. 1. Recommendation for a veteran FM junkie who doesn’t want to start a game unless the ME is immersive

    • Start a save now
      26
    • Wait for significant update
      65


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As an absolute FM junkie, I would normally have done nothing since the new game came out but play it every moment I could get away from work, the wife and the kids, but...

...the balance of the comments, and the endorsements, seem to be very much towards it being relatively unplayable for someone that wants the ME to be immersive (such as Mane and Salah to score a decent chunk of their chances, or van Dijk to not get done by basic long balls over the top several times a game).

So, should I play now or wait? 

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13 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

As an absolute FM junkie, I would normally have done nothing since the new game came out but play it every moment I could get away from work, the wife and the kids, but...

...the balance of the comments, and the endorsements, seem to be very much towards it being relatively unplayable for someone that wants the ME to be immersive (such as Mane and Salah to score a decent chunk of their chances, or van Dijk to not get done by basic long balls over the top several times a game).

So, should I play now or wait? 

Try it for yourself.. simples.. 

mane.png

salah.png

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I would say that if you are able to overcome the want and desire to start now then it's definitely worth waiting for some sort of ME update. It is a bit of a shocker in it's current form as you mention in your post. 

I'm able to get good results but the football by my team is just unrealistic and doesn't adhere to many of the tactical instructions laid out. Also, even though I'm well aware of the 1 on 1 issue it doesn't make it any less frustating when myself and the AI combine for between 5-8 missed 1 on 1's nearly every game. Theres no excitment anymore as everything just seems too random and I love it when the AI gets a 1 on 1 as I already know 9 times out of 10 it'll be missed. Sadly thats about the same ratio when I get one!!!

 

I've pretty much put it down myself and deleted my two "serious" saves until the ME update and will then start fresh with the optimism I felt back in October/November when the BETA came out.

 

Hope you enjoy it whenever you do decide to start. Everything else in the game is on the money.

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5 minutes ago, Gross_Ballon said:

When is the ME update generally expected ?

It was mid-March for FM19, which was the major ME update and all the January window transfers.

It feels like there's an acceptance that there are some fundamental problems with the ME this year, so hopefully there'll be an ME update before that and then the final update in March again.

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Generally there are enough goals in the game, so if the match engine is tweaked so 1 on 1s are scored more frequently then they might adjust something else to balance out total goals.

Maybe long shots, but they have already done that there are no were near the amount of long shots scored now as in the Beta.

In the Beta shoot on sight was a an exploit tactic.

 

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6 hours ago, prot651 said:

How do you know the update will make it better or maybe worse . 

We don't, imo the match engine is worse now after being patched than it was when the beta came out. There are so many issues with it in it's current form I personally doubt they can fix them all.

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In my save (i'm at a little club, so that are AI results) that i quit.

In 6 years

In Hungary the top goalscorers have the worst record in 100 years IRL.

In England The best top goalscorer was like the worst in the last 5 years IRL and the others are among the worst in PL history.

All The european top goalscorer of the year set the worst record in the award history IRL

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You can play it and its not awful, but missed 1on1's and stupid passing decisions inside and near box will be a test for your mental health. :D oh and forgot superhuman goalkeepers. On the other side game has huge potential compared to fm19. It feels more alive and player movement is not so static. And no more lightning fast passes to own net and not so many stupid passes over backline  when passing to gk.

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Match engine is balanced, and it's fun. Eventually it will cheat on you (burst of draws and some losses against weaklings when you have top morale and the best team of the season) but I hope they will not change that so much (ok for removing the cheatings, but match engine looks balanced, except for central attacking play). Eventually they should weaken a bit wing play because it's overpowered.

I say: start when you like it. I can't go back to FM17. It's more mature all in all.

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The game is neither broken or unplayable. It only is when you read too much on these forums --- even I, that consider myself somewhat immune to the placebo effect, had a momment were I had to stop reading here because I was enjoying the game, coming here, read people screams their lungs out because some player passed the ball differently than they wanted it and that deemed the ME broken, and start to wondering myself if it was really broken.

No, it's not broken. Nor it's unplayable. Period.

Now this doesn't mean that it doesn't have problems (yes it does) or that you will like it (I have no idea, some do, some don't, and it's fine either way). If you haven't tried, install the demo and test a bit, the important point here is that you see for yourself and you take your own conclusions. If you'll try to take conclusions from other's comments, you will not like it.

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19 hours ago, noikeee said:

Start a FM18 or FM17 save.

If by the time no updates or fixes when my exams are finished, will start do the same. Hope there are some good data updates.

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2 hours ago, 99 said:

The game is neither broken or unplayable. It only is when you read too much on these forums --- even I, that consider myself somewhat immune to the placebo effect, had a momment were I had to stop reading here because I was enjoying the game, coming here, read people screams their lungs out because some player passed the ball differently than they wanted it and that deemed the ME broken, and start to wondering myself if it was really broken.

No, it's not broken. Nor it's unplayable. Period.

Now this doesn't mean that it doesn't have problems (yes it does) or that you will like it (I have no idea, some do, some don't, and it's fine either way). If you haven't tried, install the demo and test a bit, the important point here is that you see for yourself and you take your own conclusions. If you'll try to take conclusions from other's comments, you will not like it.

I started the beta and won my first 17 or 18 games (although I was Liverpool 😆) but the football wasn't fun at all, so I moved on to games that were fun to play, like XCom and Civ VI (which, incidentally, have... prepare to have your mind blown... difficulty levels for good players 🤯).

Since then, I've checked the forums and the faults in the game, which are backed up by stats (like the crazy numbers of CCC and the artificially terrible finishing to keep the scorelines realistic) would break the immersion that makes the game so amazing normally.

I could just jump in and try it, but to me it feels like either watching a badly edited film now, or wait a couple of months for the proper version.

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10 hours ago, kosecki99 said:

we have to wait until February to have an update of the ME, this is embarrassing!:mad:

Where have you seen that? There has not been any update from @Neil Brock since his "Match Engine info and holiday plans" before Christmas, so maybe there will be an update soon. 

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Aside from the ME updates, there are pretty nice transfer moves around (Haaland, Weigl, Kulusevski, Ibrahimovic..). If you use the pre-game editor and apply the manager & player changes, there's no reason to wait until Winter update. ME will be changed probably, but we do not if it will be better than its current state. I would return to the beta ME if given the choice.

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Em 02/01/2020 em 19:03, dannysheard disse:

I could just jump in and try it, but to me it feels like either watching a badly edited film now, or wait a couple of months for the proper version.

That's fine, but I don't agree with that approach. It's not because of FM, could be any game, or movie, or music, I respect everyone's opinions and ofcourse we all have certain reviewers in art whose opinion we particularly trust (in case of FM, mine's @Rashidi), but I can't like or dislike something because other people do.

In a few months, when the "proper version" arrives, you'll start thinking that FM21 will also be just some months away, so why not wait a bit more and get the newest features, and etc... it will never end. The "best" will always be some months away, and it actually will.

Edited by 99
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13 hours ago, 99 said:

That's fine, but I don't agree with that approach. It's not because of FM, could be any game, or movie, or music, I respect everyone's opinions and ofcourse we all have certain reviewers in art whose opinion we particularly trust (in case of FM, mine's @Rashidi), but I can't like or dislike something because other people do.

In a few months, when the "proper version" arrives, you'll start thinking that FM21 will also be just some months away, so why not wait a bit more and get the newest features, and etc... it will never end. The "best" will always be some months away, and it actually will.

I take your point, but for me immersion is everything and I've always felt immersed in previous years (although, being completely honest, maybe less and less so in recent editions as it's become so easy to win 75% of all available trophies when you manage a decent team), and from reading the comments, it sounds like the problems people are highlighting (with stats to back them up) would kill the game for me.

I would start a game and see for myself but with the way I play, it takes so long to get through even a quarter of a season, that I can't face spending that amount of time just to see van Dijk regularly misjudge routine long balls over the top (which he wouldn't do once per season in real life) or feel frustration, rather than excitement, when Salah and Mane are through on the keeper because I'm 80% confident they'll spoon it.

I'm not expecting perfection, or anything near it, and I'm not fussed if things like the balance of wing play to central play is slightly off, because I can appreciate how complex the game is, but even on the beta, despite winning every game, it was painful to play the actual games.

FM20 feels like a restaurant where the decor is great, the ambiance is great, the waiters are great and the prices are great, but the food is pretty poor. I've never seen the forums have anything like such a negative view of the game. Even look at the upvotes, the positive comments get virtually none and the negative comments get lots and turn blue.

Let's call a spade a spade, the game isn't a finished product. It should never have got through testing where something as absolutely fundamental to the game (and it's enjoyment to so many players) as chance creation and chance conversion are pretty much broken.

I would happily pay the full price for just a data update and a few of the non-ME features most years, as I would still says it's amazing value for money to get 100s of hours of play for £30/40, and then maybe have some beta players test ME developments in the background.

 

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19 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

FM20 feels like a restaurant where the decor is great, the ambiance is great, the waiters are great and the prices are great, but the food is pretty poor. I've never seen the forums have anything like such a negative view of the game. Even look at the upvotes, the positive comments get virtually none and the negative comments get lots and turn blue.

To be honest, most of those upvotes come from a small but loud minority who believe the game is completely broken, want everyone to believe the same, and never offer any proper constructive criticism themselves. You could probably just post "FM20 is rubbish lol" in the feedback thread and be guaranteed 10 upvotes.

19 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Let's call a spade a spade, the game isn't a finished product. It should never have got through testing where something as absolutely fundamental to the game (and it's enjoyment to so many players) as chance creation and chance conversion are pretty much broken.

It seems like you have no understanding of how video game development works in this day and age. Most games nowadays aren't truly "finished" in your sense of the word until several months or even years after they go on general release, if at all. To use one example, Crusader Kings II came out in 2012 but had its most recent patch less than three months ago.

If your idea of "unfinished" is actually just "unfit for general release", then I disagree with your view that FM20 is "unfinished". It's perfectly playable, and I know from playing the demo that the ME has its quirks (heck, every Football Manager ME since the very first one has had its quirks). One of the reasons I decided to skip FM20 was that the ME wasn't quite what I would've liked it to be.

Even so, the game is hardly "broken". If Harry Kane misses a few one-on-ones, that's not "broken" in my view.

On the other hand, if Harry Kane spends the entire 90 minutes standing in the centre-circle with his arms stretched out like he's the Angel of the North, or teams sometimes play with 13 men on the pitch, or a goal is awarded whenever the ball goes behind the byline... then yes, that would be "broken".

If you want chance creation/conversion to be "fixed" for the next major update, then please submit some bug reports showing some examples of where you feel the game should be improved. Simply complaining about the game won't get you anywhere.

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8 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Crusader Kings II came out in 2012 but had its most recent patch less than three months ago.

Do they also charge 60 euros for every patch? 

 

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55 minutes ago, CFuller said:

To be honest, most of those upvotes come from a small but loud minority who believe the game is completely broken, want everyone to believe the same, and never offer any proper constructive criticism themselves. You could probably just post "FM20 is rubbish lol" in the feedback thread and be guaranteed 10 upvotes.

It seems like you have no understanding of how video game development works in this day and age. Most games nowadays aren't truly "finished" in your sense of the word until several months or even years after they go on general release, if at all. To use one example, Crusader Kings II came out in 2012 but had its most recent patch less than three months ago.

If your idea of "unfinished" is actually just "unfit for general release", then I disagree with your view that FM20 is "unfinished". It's perfectly playable, and I know from playing the demo that the ME has its quirks (heck, every Football Manager ME since the very first one has had its quirks). One of the reasons I decided to skip FM20 was that the ME wasn't quite what I would've liked it to be.

Even so, the game is hardly "broken". If Harry Kane misses a few one-on-ones, that's not "broken" in my view.

On the other hand, if Harry Kane spends the entire 90 minutes standing in the centre-circle with his arms stretched out like he's the Angel of the North, or teams sometimes play with 13 men on the pitch, or a goal is awarded whenever the ball goes behind the byline... then yes, that would be "broken".

If you want chance creation/conversion to be "fixed" for the next major update, then please submit some bug reports showing some examples of where you feel the game should be improved. Simply complaining about the game won't get you anywhere.

I think a lot of people have offered constructive criticism:

 - Defenders don't behave properly when attacking as poor defenders can hit inch-perfect 70 yard passes

 - Defenders don't behave properly when defending as world class defenders get fooled by routine 70 yards passes

 - Attackers don't behave properly as they create far too many good chances

 - Attackers don't behave properly as they don't convert enough chances

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2019  1st CR7 29 Goals 2nd Salah 23 Goals 3rd Werner 22 goals

2020 1st Felix 26 goals 2nd Lautaro Martinez 21 goals 3rd CR7 20 goals

2021 1st Morata 25 goals 2nd Mbappe 23 goals 3rd Mousa Dembele 22 goals

2022 1st Rafael Leo 22 goals 2nd Mbappe 20 goals 3rd Morata 20 goals

2023 1st Kane 28 goals 2nd Mbappe 25 goals 3rd Morata 25 goals

2024 1st Huerta 24 Goals 2nd Lincoln 24 goals 3rd Kane 24 goals

I mean you can clearly see a pattern here . 

Most Top scorers in the game are decent Headers apart from Mbappe who is still with PSG and they are thrashing everybody

Morata has finishing 13 and Heading 18 but he is tall. Kane has excellent finishing but he is also very tall

Rafael Leio is tall as well with decent heading

Dembele tall aswell good header

CR7 tall and great header

 

This is results for European Golden Shoe..


As you can easily see the problem is enormous... Nobody can score goals . Messi does not have above 15 goals. Mane eclipsed 14 goals once. salah scored 23 goals and hasnt gotten more then 15 since then. MBappe scores 20 goals in 40 games in france..


You need tall strikers so they can score half the goals with headers or you are busted. Its very hard I mean.. You cant recruit players for your team now cuz u have to change them in patch. The "meta " right now is to take two footed tall players so they can give u 5/6 headers 4/5 penalties and maybe they will score 10 goals with their feet if you dominate like crazy.. If they fix it you have to butcher your tyeam of those. Messi best season was 19 goals . He finished with 12/13/13/14/15/. (his 19th is his last at 36) . Also he takes free kicks ansd peanlties ... He has like 6/7 goals from open plays

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5 hours ago, CFuller said:

To be honest, most of those upvotes come from a small but loud minority who believe the game is completely broken, want everyone to believe the same, and never offer any proper constructive criticism themselves. You could probably just post "FM20 is rubbish lol" in the feedback thread and be guaranteed 10 upvotes.

It seems like you have no understanding of how video game development works in this day and age. Most games nowadays aren't truly "finished" in your sense of the word until several months or even years after they go on general release, if at all. To use one example, Crusader Kings II came out in 2012 but had its most recent patch less than three months ago.

If your idea of "unfinished" is actually just "unfit for general release", then I disagree with your view that FM20 is "unfinished". It's perfectly playable, and I know from playing the demo that the ME has its quirks (heck, every Football Manager ME since the very first one has had its quirks). One of the reasons I decided to skip FM20 was that the ME wasn't quite what I would've liked it to be.

Even so, the game is hardly "broken". If Harry Kane misses a few one-on-ones, that's not "broken" in my view.

On the other hand, if Harry Kane spends the entire 90 minutes standing in the centre-circle with his arms stretched out like he's the Angel of the North, or teams sometimes play with 13 men on the pitch, or a goal is awarded whenever the ball goes behind the byline... then yes, that would be "broken".

If you want chance creation/conversion to be "fixed" for the next major update, then please submit some bug reports showing some examples of where you feel the game should be improved. Simply complaining about the game won't get you anywhere.

Bro I dont agree with you

There is almost no strikers that score above 20 goals in top leagues.. Past 6 years not a single Golden Booth has reached 30 GOALS. In 5 of those cases they had 25 or less in one case the winner had 22 goals with third place at 20 

Messi has not gotten more then 15 goals in a season and he takes free kicks and penalties

Almost no AML or AMR player has above 10 goals or 10 assists . They never pass they always try to score and fail

Hazard best season was 9 goals for real Madrid with 6 assists

 

In EPL last 3 seasons

Top Assisters

Carlos Alena 11 (WHOLE SEASON)

De Bruyne (13)

De Bruyne (12)

 

I mean right now De Bruyne has 14 already and still 18 games to go.. He finished with 9 two years ago . Ozil finished with 19 in 2015. Henry had 20 assist season . Fabregas had 18/19

Because of soo many misses and "rebound" goals or just stealing the balll from defender and scoring a lonh shot nobody is assisting 

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I'm having fun with it (or I was until my PC broke). 1on1s and long balls are still a bit annoying but other than that it's still FM and the main reason I play (youth development) is more fun for me than FM19. Ymmv though, some people seem to hate it :onmehead:

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10 hours ago, CFuller said:

To be honest, most of those upvotes come from a small but loud minority who believe the game is completely broken, want everyone to believe the same, and never offer any proper constructive criticism themselves. You could probably just post "FM20 is rubbish lol" in the feedback thread and be guaranteed 10 upvotes.

How much more expansive do we need to be than to say that the chance creation and chance conversion ratios are broke? If you're fine shutting your eyes and kidding on the issue doesn't exist, I'm pleased for you. Perhaps some of us look for more immersion and realism than others.

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The only way to know is to play it for yourself. Closing this as yet again it's become a feedback thread. Given that you've been playing it yourself already, you should really know the answer to this..

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