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Jyuan83

Getting salah to score tons of goals...

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Has anyone managed to get Salah to score tons on FM 20? He always seems to be getting tons of assists instead LOL. Even my friends have the same grouses. IF on attack, has anyone figured it out and stop it from assisting too much? Or is Salah ppm preventing him from scoring?

PLAYER TRAITS
Places Shots
Likes To Try To Beat Offside Trap
Runs With Ball Often
Cuts Inside From Right Wing

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6 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

PLAYER TRAITS Places Shots
Likes To Try To Beat Offside Trap
Runs With Ball Often
Cuts Inside From Right Wing

 

6 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

is Salah ppm preventing him from scoring?

I don't see why any of the above traits should prevent him from scoring. 

 

6 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

IF on attack, has anyone figured it out and stop it from assisting too much?

His role alone means little. You need to set up the tactic as a whole properly. I haven't managed Liverpool so far, but I am sure there is a system that can get most out of him as a potential top-scorer.

Maybe something like this would help:

F9

IWsu                             RMD

MEZat   DLPsu

HB

(I)WBsu    CDde   CDde   WBsu

SKat

F9 - Firmino

AML - Mane

AMR - Salah

I would start with the Positive mentality and not too many instructions:

- shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box, be more expressive, overlap right

- counter, counter-press

- higher DL, standard LOE, offside trap

Then I would watch the match and make small gradual tweaks if needed.

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8 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

I don't see why any of the above traits should prevent him from scoring. 

 

His role alone means little. You need to set up the tactic as a whole properly. I haven't managed Liverpool so far, but I am sure there is a system that can get most out of him as a potential top-scorer.

Maybe something like this would help:

F9

IWsu                             RMD

MEZat   DLPsu

HB

(I)WBsu    CDde   CDde   WBsu

SKat

F9 - Firmino

AML - Mane

AMR - Salah

I would start with the Positive mentality and not too many instructions:

- shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box, be more expressive, overlap right

- counter, counter-press

- higher DL, standard LOE, offside trap

Then I would watch the match and make small gradual tweaks if needed.

Why would you use RMD over IF(A)? Just curious as I would always of had Salah down as an IF

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3 minutes ago, simonbyrneno.4 said:

Why would you use RMD over IF(A)? Just curious as I would always of had Salah down as an IF

If you want him to be the main goalscorer playing in a wide forward position (as opposed to the central striker), then RMD (a.k.a. wide poacher) is (obvously) the most logical choice. Provided you have made sure that:

- he has space to attack and take advantage of

- he is well-supported/supplied by those around him

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There is another option as well (again with him as RMD):

F9

IWsu                         RMD

DLPsu  MEZsu

DMde/su

WBat    CDde  BPDde   IWBde

SKat

and basically same instructions as in the first tactic.

Edited by Experienced Defender

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Only played one season as Liverpool so far and Salah scored 32 goals as an IF(A) as well as getting 32 assists. This was more goals than the forwards managed Firmino 27 and  Origi 26 so I do not see a problem.

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1 hour ago, GR3NDAL said:

Only played one season as Liverpool so far and Salah scored 32 goals as an IF(A) as well as getting 32 assists. This was more goals than the forwards managed Firmino 27 and  Origi 26 so I do not see a problem.

Did you use 4-3-3 like irl? When I have put Salah on IF A he seems to gets to selfish

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15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

There is another option as well (again with him as RMD):

F9

IWsu                         RMD

DLPsu  MEZsu

DMde/su

WBat    CDde  BPDde   IWBde

SKat

and basically same instructions as in the first tactic.

I noticed that whenever you use mezzela on a side, you also use your fullback on same side as "IWB". I'm sure it will make a good sense defensively but how about the attack? How will he contribute for attacking phases?

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15 hours ago, kenny3 said:

I noticed that whenever you use mezzela on a side, you also use your fullback on same side as "IWB". 

I like the IWB as a role, but I use it only if I have a suitable player and if the role makes sense within the overall setup. 

 

15 hours ago, kenny3 said:

I'm sure it will make a good sense defensively but how about the attack? How will he contribute for attacking phases?

It makes sense both defensively and in attack (provided - again - that you have the right player). Defensively, the IWB - on defend or support duty, depending on the circumstances - is supposed to provide cover for the attack-minded CM in front of him (whether a mezzala, BBM or CM on attack duty). In terms of attack, the IWB can help to recycle possession as well as provide more close support to the midfield in the build-up phase.

Btw, if you have an exceptionally good player, an IWB on attack duty can be "lethal". But he will of course need a good holding midfielder to cover for him defensively.

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Surely it would be most beneficial to emulate Klopp's roles and duties?

T.A-Arnold is clearly an IWB on Attack, and Liverpool's CMs are fairly conservative to compensate for both fullbacks getting forward. Salah can cut in or go wide and as I see it he generally stays wide to stretch the defence without the ball but moves into channels freed up by Firmino and cuts inside. Robertson stays wide and gets forward, often overlapping Mané. Mané runs at the defence from deeper and drops back more than Salah. I don't think Salah drops back much into Liverpool's defensive third either. I'd go with IW(S) for Mané and IF(A) for Salah. RMD doesnt dribble more but Salah's PPMs could give this role his own flavour.

The central 3 are all noticeably high work rate players who are strong defensively but can also pass well and approach the edge of the box at the final stages of the attacking phase. The central pairing is on support duty and at least one is a box to box midfielder. Against top teams Klopp will make two static and staying back, but against weaker teams he goes for two deep runners one of whom somehow gives space to TAA and the DM holds the fort.

Firmino is a tricky one because he does drop off to receive the ball to feet in central areas to either assist or run at defence but he also does not arrive late into the box. He creates a lot with his movement and passing but doesn't hold up the ball. I could be wrong but I also think he mainly stays central, so it is probably wrong to say he moves into channels. I'm inclined to say the best translation is a Trequartista, but he could easily be an F9 or DLF(A) and he presses a lot more than a Trequartista. I wouldn't say CF(A) but maybe even PF(S) could fit.

Firmino Ta

Mane IWs

Salah IFa

MCR DLPs

MCL BBMs

DM DMd

Robertson WBa

CDs generally on defend duty and maybe 1 is a BPD

TAA IWBa

Alisson SKs

 

See how you get on with that.

 

Edited by permanentquandary

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7 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

Surely it would be most beneficial to emulate Klopp's roles and duties?

T.A-Arnold is clearly an IWB on Attack, and Liverpool's CMs are fairly conservative to compensate for both fullbacks getting forward. Salah can cut in or go wide and as I see it he generally stays wide to stretch the defence without the ball but moves into channels freed up by Firmino and cuts inside. Robertson stays wide and gets forward, often overlapping Mané. Mané runs at the defence from deeper and drops back more than Salah. I don't think Salah drops back much into Liverpool's defensive third either. I'd go with IW(S) for Mané and IF(A) for Salah. RMD doesnt dribble more but Salah's PPMs could give this role his own flavour.

The central 3 are all noticeably high work rate players who are strong defensively but can also pass well and approach the edge of the box at the final stages of the attacking phase. The central pairing is on support duty and at least one is a box to box midfielder. Against top teams Klopp will make two static and staying back, but against weaker teams he goes for two deep runners one of whom somehow gives space to TAA and the DM holds the fort.

Firmino is a tricky one because he does drop off to receive the ball to feet in central areas to either assist or run at defence but he also does not arrive late into the box. He creates a lot with his movement and passing but doesn't hold up the ball. I could be wrong but I also think he mainly stays central, so it is probably wrong to say he moves into channels. I'm inclined to say the best translation is a Trequartista, but he could easily be an F9 or DLF(A) and he presses a lot more than a Trequartista. I wouldn't say CF(A) but maybe even PF(S) could fit.

Firmino Ta

Mane IWs

Salah IFa

MCR DLPs

MCL BBMs

DM DMd

Robertson WBa

CDs generally on defend duty and maybe 1 is a BPD

TAA IWBa

Alisson SKs

 

See how you get on with that.

 

MCR/RB will attack the same space. If you play it on 3D, you'll see 2 dots on top of each other. 

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8 hours ago, denen123 said:

MCR/RB will attack the same space. If you play it on 3D, you'll see 2 dots on top of each other. 

potentially! maybe even put the DLP on defend and have a more structured shape for quicker transitions, or the instruction of underlap right could work

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16 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

Surely it would be most beneficial to emulate Klopp's roles and duties?

T.A-Arnold is clearly an IWB on Attack, and Liverpool's CMs are fairly conservative to compensate for both fullbacks getting forward. Salah can cut in or go wide and as I see it he generally stays wide to stretch the defence without the ball but moves into channels freed up by Firmino and cuts inside. Robertson stays wide and gets forward, often overlapping Mané. Mané runs at the defence from deeper and drops back more than Salah. I don't think Salah drops back much into Liverpool's defensive third either. I'd go with IW(S) for Mané and IF(A) for Salah. RMD doesnt dribble more but Salah's PPMs could give this role his own flavour.

The central 3 are all noticeably high work rate players who are strong defensively but can also pass well and approach the edge of the box at the final stages of the attacking phase. The central pairing is on support duty and at least one is a box to box midfielder. Against top teams Klopp will make two static and staying back, but against weaker teams he goes for two deep runners one of whom somehow gives space to TAA and the DM holds the fort.

Firmino is a tricky one because he does drop off to receive the ball to feet in central areas to either assist or run at defence but he also does not arrive late into the box. He creates a lot with his movement and passing but doesn't hold up the ball. I could be wrong but I also think he mainly stays central, so it is probably wrong to say he moves into channels. I'm inclined to say the best translation is a Trequartista, but he could easily be an F9 or DLF(A) and he presses a lot more than a Trequartista. I wouldn't say CF(A) but maybe even PF(S) could fit.

Firmino Ta

Mane IWs

Salah IFa

MCR DLPs

MCL BBMs

DM DMd

Robertson WBa

CDs generally on defend duty and maybe 1 is a BPD

TAA IWBa

Alisson SKs

 

See how you get on with that.

 

I will have to disagree with a few things here. 

Klopp doesn't use Playmaker roles in his tactic. Counterpressing is the playmaker in his style. He has been quoted as saying that there is no better playmaker than forcing a turnover and taking advantage of the space / opening as soon as possible.

TAA's role is definitely not IWB. I see him more as CWB. He has slightly more freedom and is more adventurous than Robertson. Firmino is not a Trequartista. His role varies between F9, DLF and CF. He's going to drop deep regardless, because he has that Player Trait.

I would go with these roles:

 

SK-S

CWB-S

WB-S

CD-D

BPD-D

A-D or HB-D

BWM-S

BBM-S

IF-A or RMD-A

IF-S

F9-S or CF-S

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5 hours ago, yonko said:

I will have to disagree with a few things here. 

Klopp doesn't use Playmaker roles in his tactic. Counterpressing is the playmaker in his style. He has been quoted as saying that there is no better playmaker than forcing a turnover and taking advantage of the space / opening as soon as possible.

TAA's role is definitely not IWB. I see him more as CWB. He has slightly more freedom and is more adventurous than Robertson. Firmino is not a Trequartista. His role varies between F9, DLF and CF. He's going to drop deep regardless, because he has that Player Trait.

 

I would add Pressing Forward to the list of potential Firmino roles -- imo he can really be any support role that isn't a ball magnet (TQ/ TM). Other than that, I would second yonko's comments above

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8 minutes ago, Pass and Move said:

I would add Pressing Forward to the list of potential Firmino roles -- imo he can really be any support role that isn't a ball magnet (TQ/ TM). Other than that, I would second yonko's comments above

The Pressing Forward on Support is limited role for how Firmino plays IRL and his attributes + traits in FM. The hard working pressing nature of the role can be replicated with Tis and or PIs.

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Would you all say that salah is more of an AF slanted towards the right flank than an IF attack? I am not really a liverpool fan so I cannot say for certain about how he plays in games lolol.

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If you want Salah to score a lot of goals (irrespective of the tactic as a whole), my advice would be play him as a false 9 on the right hand side of the forward line, from this position he will drop back a little bit to receive cut backs from the dead ball line and i tend to find on my saves that you can get some lethal goal scoring numbers from these positions.

 

That might make HIM a more effective goal scorer, but your overall tactic worse though.

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It won't happen until they fix the behavior of wide attacking players. Or unless you play him as a striker in a 4-2-3-1.

Note, there is massive difference in what a player in any position will do when you simulate matches and/or play them at high speed at 'key' or 'text' only settings versus watching and actually managing every match on 'comprehensive'. I can give you 3 tactic packages custom made for Liverpool that will see you out-shoot opponents 30-40 -1 and outscore them 3-1 all the way to the title, but Salah, or any wide attacking player won't score near to what they do IRL (using formations that accurately mimic Klopp's 3 major systems) if you watch every single match on 'comprehensive'.

Edited by tarzanofmars

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5 hours ago, tarzanofmars said:

It won't happen until they fix the behavior of wide attacking players. Or unless you play him as a striker in a 4-2-3-1.

Note, there is massive difference in what a player in any position will do when you simulate matches and/or play them at high speed at 'key' or 'text' only settings versus watching and actually managing every match on 'comprehensive'. I can give you 3 tactic packages custom made for Liverpool that will see you out-shoot opponents 30-40 -1 and outscore them 3-1 all the way to the title, but Salah, or any wide attacking player won't score near to what they do IRL (using formations that accurately mimic Klopp's 3 major systems) if you watch every single match on 'comprehensive'.

What systems do you use that replicate Liverpool's real life tactics? Can we see images of your tactics? I'm interested in the three midfield players and their roles, which I always find are most difficult to get right when trying to produce a Klopp tactic. 

As for Salah, I played him as an IF-a for a season and he got me 40 goals and 26 assists in 53 games (all comps). As a Raumdeuter in my second season, he's on 12 goals and 8 assists in 14 games. So while I agree that the behaviour (and even positioning) of wide attackers isn't great, you still can get plenty of goals from them.

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