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Fine ball poss. play but no chances/goals... !??


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I need some advice guys. Went back to play poss. play with the help of Herne's information. The plug and play tactics is nothing for me at all. So im back having good ball poss. play, im happy with it. 

But man i get to many shots oke, but its hard to break down, to score that goal. I played alot of draws, at home and away, draw or lose. Very hard to achieve a win many times, while i have a lot of ball poss. 

So my question is where to look at to get that goals easily. I was thinking of bad wingbacks penetration also. I posted my tactic here. Take a look and any advice is welcome... Thanks! 

tactic.png

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4 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

I need some advice guys. Went back to play poss. play with the help of Herne's information. The plug and play tactics is nothing for me at all. So im back having good ball poss. play, im happy with it. 

But man i get to many shots oke, but its hard to break down, to score that goal. I played alot of draws, at home and away, draw or lose. Very hard to achieve a win many times, while i have a lot of ball poss. 

So my question is where to look at to get that goals easily. I was thinking of bad wingbacks penetration also. I posted my tactic here. Take a look and any advice is welcome... Thanks! 

tactic.png

 

Try to get your wingers closer to your fullbacks for a start. I'd probably settle with a fb(A) on the left and a wb(S) on the right. This way they should link up better and use the space each other create more than you're probably seeing now. You could also drop your line of engagement and line of defence back a notch, as what you have now will very much push you towards nicking the ball from them deep in their half then exploiting them quickly during the transition phase. If you'd rather keep a hard pressing high up the pitch style though, then another solution might be to increase your tempo and attacking mentality slightly (either one or both of them) so that you're encouraging your players to be more direct once winning back possession. (as there should be plenty of space to make use of). Also maybe think about employing a split block pressing system to give you a better chance of actually winning the ball back when your players chase it down high up.

Bear in mind there's probably not a fix all solution here that will work every match and that it will be very dependant on you looking to see where there's space to exploit then making the necessary changes.

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16 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

tactic.png

 

16 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

I need some advice guys. Went back to play poss. play with the help of Herne's information. The plug and play tactics is nothing for me at all. So im back having good ball poss. play, im happy with it. 

But man i get to many shots oke, but its hard to break down, to score that goal. I played alot of draws, at home and away, draw or lose. Very hard to achieve a win many times, while i have a lot of ball poss. 

So my question is where to look at to get that goals easily. I was thinking of bad wingbacks penetration also. I posted my tactic here. Take a look and any advice is welcome... Thanks! 

I don't know your team and do not watch your matches, so I cannot guarantee if this is going to help you achieve what you want, but anyway - here are some suggestions for you:

- remove Dribble less (if you don't want certain players to dribble because they are poor dribblers, then use the relevant player instruction)

- drop the LOE from much higher to just higher (both for the sake of compactness and to make some more space up front)

- change the AMR from IW on attack to IF also on attack (to make him more of a second striker)

- change MCR from AP on support to DLP also on support and the DR from FB on support to WB also on support (to provide more attacking with on the right)

- change the LB from WB on support to IWB also on support (to cover the space behind the attacking CM and more directly help the midfield recycle possession)

Other possible tweaks you might consider or experiment with:

- up the mentality to Positive (to encourage the players to be a bit more adventurous in attack and willing to take risks)

- try with F9 or DLF on support instead of CF (CF is a pretty demanding role, so it's possible that your striker may struggle to perform it effectively enough)

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On 22/12/2019 at 12:04, savagepenguin said:

 

Try to get your wingers closer to your fullbacks for a start. I'd probably settle with a fb(A) on the left and a wb(S) on the right. This way they should link up better and use the space each other create more than you're probably seeing now. You could also drop your line of engagement and line of defence back a notch, as what you have now will very much push you towards nicking the ball from them deep in their half then exploiting them quickly during the transition phase. If you'd rather keep a hard pressing high up the pitch style though, then another solution might be to increase your tempo and attacking mentality slightly (either one or both of them) so that you're encouraging your players to be more direct once winning back possession. (as there should be plenty of space to make use of). Also maybe think about employing a split block pressing system to give you a better chance of actually winning the ball back when your players chase it down high up.

Bear in mind there's probably not a fix all solution here that will work every match and that it will be very dependant on you looking to see where there's space to exploit then making the necessary changes.

Thanks for the tips. I did change the LOE and some roles. I have the splitblock for the upfront players. Im getting also better results now and it looks like that the wingbacks are in better play now too upfront. 

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On 22/12/2019 at 23:45, Experienced Defender said:

 

I don't know your team and do not watch your matches, so I cannot guarantee if this is going to help you achieve what you want, but anyway - here are some suggestions for you:

- remove Dribble less (if you don't want certain players to dribble because they are poor dribblers, then use the relevant player instruction)

- drop the LOE from much higher to just higher (both for the sake of compactness and to make some more space up front)

- change the AMR from IW on attack to IF also on attack (to make him more of a second striker)

- change MCR from AP on support to DLP also on support and the DR from FB on support to WB also on support (to provide more attacking with on the right)

- change the LB from WB on support to IWB also on support (to cover the space behind the attacking CM and more directly help the midfield recycle possession)

Other possible tweaks you might consider or experiment with:

- up the mentality to Positive (to encourage the players to be a bit more adventurous in attack and willing to take risks)

- try with F9 or DLF on support instead of CF (CF is a pretty demanding role, so it's possible that your striker may struggle to perform it effectively enough)

Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it. I did the tweaks you noted and the results are much better. Especially the home games. It looks like the wingbacks are involved much better too. That IWB is quite a good role too there. 

And the unclick the dribble less is a huge difference in my play too i think. Still playing on balanced, but could go home games on positive. Using a DLFsup which is doing much better now too. 

My feeling says the dribble less untick and role tweaks made it better atm. A match for example, home 4-0 v Utrecht which was very satisfying. I will keep an eye on this for now. Thanks a lot.

A question about the change, what could make it better having that DLP instead of AP on midfield? And the IF is a role which jumps into the space the striker leaves right? 

 

But something about difficult away games. (Easy ones i could keep my home tactic i think) ...

What is important to change, i mean changing only TI at the out of poss. and keep others same or? Because i did against PSV and won 0-1 with a red card too early in the game.

Like LOE and D line on standard, defensive widt too small and get stuck in. And possible mentality too cautious.  

Is something like this enough or do i need to think about transition and in poss. TI's also? ...Like regroup maybe and play on counter (this is btw what i did in that Psv game after the red card)? And pass directer etc?

Or will that interrupt my play style? Thanks in advance. 

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9 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

A question about the change, what could make it better having that DLP instead of AP on midfield?

The DLP is more of a holding type of PM, so it's safer defensively than AP, which in turn makes it possible for the fullbacks to be allowed to bomb forward more and provide better support. You can try with the AP on support if you want, but if you notice that it makes you more vulnerable in defense, then change back to the DLP. I personally tend to prefer as safe an option as possible. 

 

9 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

And the IF is a role which jumps into the space the striker leaves right?

Yes, the IF is a more direct and straightforward role than IW attacking-wise. IF is a sort of auxiliary striker, whereas IW is more like a quasi-PM. 

 

9 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

But something about difficult away games. (Easy ones i could keep my home tactic i think) ...

What is important to change, i mean changing only TI at the out of poss. and keep others same or? Because i did against PSV and won 0-1 with a red card too early in the game.

Like LOE and D line on standard, defensive widt too small and get stuck in. And possible mentality too cautious.  

Is something like this enough or do i need to think about transition and in poss. TI's also? ...Like regroup maybe and play on counter (this is btw what i did in that Psv game after the red card)? And pass directer etc?

Or will that interrupt my play style? Thanks in advance

I didn't quite understand this question (or at least certain parts of it). If you can post a screenshot of your new tactic (the one with the tweaks I suggested), that would be more than welcome :thup:

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4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

I didn't quite understand this question (or at least certain parts of it). If you can post a screenshot of your new tactic (the one with the tweaks I suggested), that would be more than welcome :thup:

Thanks. Here is the new tactic ...

Well the question is, for away games, espec. against difficult teams, ...how to set it (this tactic) up, to be more compact, solid and efficient to get a good result...? 

I've also noticed few times in those away games, that my team sometimes gives the ball away easily on midfield for example. Maybe because of the stronger opponent pressing high.

(I have a match now against Lazio away for EL game. Won the home game 2-0. So need to defend that win to go thru).

new.png

Edited by f.zaarour
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54 minutes ago, f.zaarour said:

the question is, for away games, espec. against difficult teams, ...how to set it (this tactic) up, to be more compact, solid and efficient to get a good result...? 

I don't know how strong your team is, so take my advice with a pinch of salt, but generally speaking - making too big changes to your basic tactic is not a good idea IMHO (provided this tactic generally works well). 

It's just a couple of tweaks I would make for these difficult matches:

- drop the LOE slightly (from higher to standard) to get better compactness

- change the AMR's duty to support instead of attack and the striker's to attack instead of support (to get more protection on the flanks but at the same time more penetration through the middle)

- change the AML's role to winger

- and remove the counter-press against those tough opponents (as they could well be able to exploit it)

- and possibly also consider changing the DM on defend into a simple anchorman (just as an option, not necessarily)

Like this:

DLFat

Wsu                                  IFsu

CMat    DLPsu

A/DMde

IWBsu    CDde   CDde   WBsu

                                                       

And yes - if they press you hard and high up the pitch, remove the Play out of defence if your players don't seem confident enough to play under such amount of pressure.

Edited by Experienced Defender
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32 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I don't know how strong your team is, so take my advice with a pinch of salt, but generally speaking - making too big changes to your basic tactic is not a good idea IMHO (provided this tactic generally works well). 

It's just a couple of tweaks I would make for these difficult matches:

- drop the LOE slightly (from higher to standard) to get better compactness

- change the AMR's duty to support instead of attack and the striker's to attack instead of support (to get more protection on the flanks but at the same time more penetration through the middle)

- change the AML's role to winger

- and remove the counter-press against those tough opponents (as they could well be able to exploit it)

- and possibly also consider changing the DM on defend into a simple anchorman (just as an option, not necessarily)

Like this:

DLFat

Wsu                                  IFsu

CMat    DLPsu

A/DMde

IWBsu    CDde   CDde   WBsu

                                                       

And yes - if they press you hard and high up the pitch, remove the Play out of defence if your players don't seem confident enough to play under such amount of pressure.

Thanks a lot. I will take this and look how it goes. So if I see in first place, changing roles is more effective in this case instead of changing many TI's just randomly. And so i could keep playing the same when changing this suggestions. 

By the way, do i put mentality on balanced or on cautious? 

Edited by f.zaarour
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48 minutes ago, f.zaarour said:

So if I see in first place, changing roles is more effective in this case instead of changing many TI's just randomly

Only small subtle changes, and not randomly.  

 

49 minutes ago, f.zaarour said:

do i put mentality on balanced or on cautious?

If your primary mentality is positive, then you shouldn't go lower than balanced.

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21 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Only small subtle changes, and not randomly.  

If your primary mentality is positive, then you shouldn't go lower than balanced.

I played some away games, but didnt go well. I had the feeling it was oke, but somewhere it was quite static in the play and for sure couldnt controll the game. In the hard games i can understant as the opponent is much better.

I felt like i lacked penetration i think. I did go to balanced and with those role tweaks, i was asking (and maybe you can answer that) if it was too static in the attack, as i had more controlled roles and with balanced it went unrisky too...?

The game against Lazio started quite well, i have too say, 0-2 but then Lazio did something and was bombing forward and i lost 4-2 but due my home 2-0 game i went thru. But after that i still struggled with away matches.

I was thinking keeping those suggestion of you which makes it more compact and controlled but keep the mentality on support, if that would help? Or just keeping that home games tactic and just put it on balanced. What i also
noticed is the ease of how the AI bombs those long balls over my defense many times, but luckily the GK's in this FM are very overpowered lol. 

Any advice on this would be awesome. As im happy with the home tactic, but still struggling in away matches, esp. against difficult teams. 

Edited by f.zaarour
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1 hour ago, f.zaarour said:

I played some away games, but didnt go well. I had the feeling it was oke, but somewhere it was quite static in the play and for sure couldnt controll the game. In the hard games i can understant as the opponent is much better.

I felt like i lacked penetration i think. I did go to balanced and with those role tweaks, i was asking (and maybe you can answer that) if it was too static in the attack, as i had more controlled roles and with balanced it went unrisky too...?

The game against Lazio started quite well, i have too say, 0-2 but then Lazio did something and was bombing forward and i lost 4-2 but due my home 2-0 game i went thru. But after that i still struggled with away matches.

I was thinking keeping those suggestion of you which makes it more compact and controlled but keep the mentality on support, if that would help? Or just keeping that home games tactic and just put it on balanced. What i also
noticed is the ease of how the AI bombs those long balls over my defense many times, but luckily the GK's in this FM are very overpowered lol. 

Any advice on this would be awesome. As im happy with the home tactic, but still struggling in away matches, esp. against difficult teams. 

You need to post a screenshot of that particular tactic so that I could see where those potential issues could stem from. 

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5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

You need to post a screenshot of that particular tactic so that I could see where those potential issues could stem from. 

Here i have the away tactic. And an example for an away game. Its funny how i have not that many ti's. 

neeww.png

away gsme.png

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20 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

neeww.png

 

20 hours ago, f.zaarour said:

Here i have the away tactic. And an example for an away game. Its funny how i have not that many ti's

The setup of roles and duties looks pretty decent. Potential problems could be:

- your defense is maybe not good enough to play with a higher DL (advice: drop the DL to standard and LOE to lower)

- the setup of roles and duties is basically counter-attacking, but instructions do not seem to support it (advice: change passing from shorter into standard, and add the Counter TI in transition)

- it's also possible that some of your players are not good enough for their respective roles (advice: check out attributes and traits)

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On 26/12/2019 at 20:41, Experienced Defender said:

 

The setup of roles and duties looks pretty decent. Potential problems could be:

- your defense is maybe not good enough to play with a higher DL (advice: drop the DL to standard and LOE to lower)

- the setup of roles and duties is basically counter-attacking, but instructions do not seem to support it (advice: change passing from shorter into standard, and add the Counter TI in transition)

- it's also possible that some of your players are not good enough for their respective roles (advice: check out attributes and traits)

Thanks for the tips, really appreciate it. 

About the away games, its still not positive. Had hard times. This Az game is btw a test for me, to make it work and understand it so i can later enjoy a Real madrid save. Anyway, i made the changes you said.

But it was hard still, could be like you said about that we not good enough. And i was asking did the changes not change my play? Like going on counter play for example. What if i only changed mentality to like cautious or even defens in those away games?

I had a game against guimares Europe league man was hard to beat them, they had better poss. play too. I see also alot of threw balls on me, but i got them too, but ohh how many are missed. 

Im still on search for this. The home games are nice. But dunno how to get the away games work. Oh by the way, i maybe forget to notice about my PI's which i have from Herne btw. And that is my question too, do i use the split block

in those away game? Cuz i have it, and also roam for some attackers. And defenders and VM have take lesser risks. Dunno if that has influence on the game...?

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