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Striker going missing vs bottom of the league bus parkers

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I'm struggling to get my striker involved in the game vs teams that sit deep. Any idea why?

My team is challenging to win the title this season and I definitely have a strong team.

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Edited by permanentquandary

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Where is the space in a deep sitting defence and what space does an Advanced Forward look for?

As you are challenging for the title you obviously have a decent system, so probably just a minor tweak to the striker's role may be all you need when playing against deep defences.  However if you do make a change pay close attention to who else might be attacking the space - your Mezzala for sure, but on the flanks your Winger may be looking to stay wide and your AP(s) may not want to too much.  You might not need to change the flanks as well, just something to watch and be ready for.

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To me advanced forward is always looking to move toward goal to pressure GK. I might suggest finding him something different against low bus. Maybe try complete forward?

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It can be very frustrating breaking these bus parkers.

I find myself tweaking/changing roles and duties and instructions and mentality every game during the match and then I suffer from inconsistent form.

The mad thing is that I am losing or drawing against these teams but winning against strong or middling teams. And they score predictably from their only shot on goal.

I suspect it is down to width, passing style and defensive line. Occasionally I dial everything down: cautious mentality, lower defensive line, turn off counter, offside trap and counter pressing and reduce pressing intensity. Mixed results.

Naturally that lets the other team play and have the ball and I mostly have no trouble defending whatever they throw at me.

But I notice that the opposition doesn't change their D-line or mentality so when my boys get towards their 18 the opponent has resumed parking.

So I'm thinking more direct passing on a lower mentality with a low defensive line, plus a higher tempo, plus going wider.

And maybe I can try putting the AP(S) on Stay Wider. Sometimes AML is AP(A), IF(a) or (s), and my winger goes to support. Without a large sample size of each variation against bus parkers it is very difficult to know what is working and what was luck if my boys score.

Edited by permanentquandary

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I would try lowering your line of engagement, might encourage the Bus Parkers to push up a little giving your striker more space.

Another option against sides your confident wont offer much attacking threat, drop your half back and play someone in the number 10 role, the opposition defence will have to push someone out to deal with him

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I would recommend the following tweaks for starters:

- changing the MEZ on attack into CM on attack (so that you would have a more direct runner from deep that can take advantage of the AF pushing the opposition back-line)

- dropping the LOE just one notch (from higher to standard) so as to create more space for the AF (because AF as a lone striker needs more space to operate properly). That would also improve your vertical compactness btw.

- replacing the more urgent pressing with a split block (primarily for the sake of better defensive stability, while at the same time keeping your pressing levels high enough)

I am usually opposed to having 2 playmakers too close to each other, but in this particular case that could make sense as a way to create an overload. Otherwise, you can replace either the DLP with carrilero or the AP with IW on support duty.

Not sure that the narrow(er) attacking width is a good idea, especially when you need to break down the "bus-parkers". I would leave it on default.

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48 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I would recommend the following tweaks for starters:

- changing the MEZ on attack into CM on attack (so that you would have a more direct runner from deep that can take advantage of the AF pushing the opposition back-line)

- dropping the LOE just one notch (from higher to standard) so as to create more space for the AF (because AF as a lone striker needs more space to operate properly). That would also improve your vertical compactness btw.

- replacing the more urgent pressing with a split block (primarily for the sake of better defensive stability, while at the same time keeping your pressing levels high enough)

I am usually opposed to having 2 playmakers too close to each other, but in this particular case that could make sense as a way to create an overload. Otherwise, you can replace either the DLP with carrilero or the AP with IW on support duty.

Not sure that the narrow(er) attacking width is a good idea, especially when you need to break down the "bus-parkers". I would leave it on default.

The DLP is a counter attack stopper which allows my left back to do what he wants but his deeper position also allows the AML space to cut in and ping balls to the left back or to the opposite flank often unmarked.

I think you are right about the CMA but I had a spell last season where my mezzala scored 16 goals despite 9 finishing. That being said, that was during the throwin exploit period of fm19, but he did score a lot in open play too. Now he doesnt score much.

The left flank overload was what I had in mind. Naturally it does mean the AMR doesnt get much support especially with the IWB often on Defend covering for the CMA and IFA or WA. But attracting the opposition to the left means the right flank finds space to penetrate, although admittedly not against bus parkers.

I'll follow this advice. Thanks.

What about using the T(A) as STC or even as the AML with an IFS or WS on the AMR?

Edited by permanentquandary

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11 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

The DLP is a counter attack stopper which allows my left back to do what he wants but his deeper position also allows the AML space to cut in and ping balls to the left back or to the opposite flank often unmarked

Yes. That's exactly why I said that in this particular setup such a combo can make sense (as it obviously does). I just offered an alternative option as an idea for you to consider, not necessarily adopt. 

 

11 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

I think you are right about the CMA but I had a spell last season where my mezzala scored 16 goals despite 9 finishing

Nothing wrong with the mezzala as a role. In fact, it's one of my favorite roles in football (provided you have the right type of player). My comment (suggestion) was relative to the context of your tactic as a whole. No role (or any other tactical element) can work in isolation, so you always need to think about the broader picture, so to speak. 

 

11 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

What about using the T(A) as STC or even as the AML with an IFS or WS on the AMR?

Again, I would need to see the whole setup in order to be able to tell you my opinion in a meaningful way. A couple of roles alone means little. 

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On 21/12/2019 at 12:37, Experienced Defender said:

Again, I would need to see the whole setup in order to be able to tell you my opinion in a meaningful way. A couple of roles alone means little.

Can't you see the picture?

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11 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

Can't you see the picture?

Well, your question was not about changing just one role in one position, but 2-3 potential roles in 2-3 potential positions. Which leads to a few possible different combinations. 

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On 20/12/2019 at 12:27, herne79 said:

Where is the space in a deep sitting defence and what space does an Advanced Forward look for?

As you are challenging for the title you obviously have a decent system, so probably just a minor tweak to the striker's role may be all you need when playing against deep defences.  However if you do make a change pay close attention to who else might be attacking the space - your Mezzala for sure, but on the flanks your Winger may be looking to stay wide and your AP(s) may not want to too much.  You might not need to change the flanks as well, just something to watch and be ready for.

This is good advice although I think an AF could work in a system where teams sit off you.  In that instance though you need to change your approach play to supply him differently.  I think Herne though is speaking about a role that drops off rather than plays on last defender.  Either way is good, I just didn't want to leave it that an AF isn't serviceable at all, cause he is.

Edited by Robson 07

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On 24/12/2019 at 12:25, Experienced Defender said:

Well, your question was not about changing just one role in one position, but 2-3 potential roles in 2-3 potential positions. Which leads to a few possible different combinations. 

I am totally open to any suggestions about new combinations. I have a wide range of versatile players, some of which are elite or world class and others who are very good and can still grow to become elite. I make this point so you know my players can handle almost anything you suggest.

The only players my squad lacks is a natural right back who is great going forward (primarily my right backs are defensive apart from maybe the retrained Amadou Haidara who has 17 passing and vision but poor cross on him) and left footed AML players who can cross well.

The off season is fast approaching in my save and a tactical revolution is certainly planned.

So give me all you got!

Edited by permanentquandary

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I should mention I have tried Trequartista, CF(A) and DLF(A) and in most cases the striker struggled, although I am certain my strikers are suited to these roles.

I have one guy in particular called Blazek who has very high jumping, agility, pace, balance, strength, first touch and vision and good dribbling, passing, acceleration and off the ball, and strong mentally for composure, decisions and antipation. But he has only 11 for finishing.

This right footed guy started as an AMC but I have played him at MC, ST, AML and AMR and he can play well in all of those positions.

For me he is almost everything I want in a supporting striker and he even has Comes Deep To Get Ball, Killer Balls Often and Likes To Switch Ball To Other Flank ppms.

I will post screenshots of all my candidates for striker when I get back home from work.

Edited by permanentquandary

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On 27/12/2019 at 01:19, permanentquandary said:

I should mention I have tried Trequartista, CF(A) and DLF(A) and in most cases the striker struggled, although I am certain my strikers are suited to these roles.

I have one guy in particular called Blazek who has very high jumping, agility, pace, balance, strength, first touch and vision and good dribbling, passing, acceleration and off the ball, and strong mentally for composure, decisions and antipation. But he has only 11 for finishing.

This right footed guy started as an AMC but I have played him at MC, ST, AML and AMR and he can play well in all of those positions.

For me he is almost everything I want in a supporting striker and he even has Comes Deep To Get Ball, Killer Balls Often and Likes To Switch Ball To Other Flank ppms.

I will post screenshots of all my candidates for striker when I get back home from work.

How about a support duty striker. Dlpsu/CFsu/PFsu and playing "narrower" against teams that i assume(by your use of bus parkers term) defend narrower seems somewhat counter-productive

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Breaking down a parked bus, as others have noted, can be quite challenging. And a lone AF(A) is probably going to have little hope against it. Since people have already focused on that, let me think about a few other things you can consider.

The first is you need to draw teams out of position. There are a few ways to do that. One would be to create overloads that force the AI to commit to a specific area of the pitch. For example a IF(A), WB(A), MEZ(A) on the same side will force the AI to commit defenders to that side, and free space on the opposite side. You can invent as many ways as you like to overload different areas.

Another example would be to let the AI play from the back, and then hit them with a hard but low press. Then counter them fast before they can get back. This relies on the AI actually trying to play from the back. There are many other ways, and each have their own risks.

In terms of the way you are playing. Do you really need a HB when facing a team parking the bus? A 3 man defence seems like overkill. Something like a DM(S) will be more involved in attacking play, and with the IWB you will have a lot of numbers in the middle for the AI to try to deal with. 

Similarly, do you need two playmakers? I'd be tempted to try things in place of a DLP and see what happens. a MEZ may also work on that side, as he will occupy the space left by the AP. If a team is purely parking the bus, you can take the risk of leaving few players to defend. Try to stretch them as wide as possible, and keep your own players as vertically spread as you can. This way the AI has to either leave players free or abandon their shape to deal with players. Both are good for you. 

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