Struggling

[matty_boy]

Hi guys,

 

Really struggling to find a tactic that works for Brighton. Tried many test tactics but somethings always off and when I counter that issue it affects another couple of things. Bossed FM 19 with them but this years a different animal. Tried 4-2-3-1 gegenpress which everyone is saying is overpowered (Which is how Brighton play now) and regardless of what defensive line I put (high or very low) always get done with ball over the top, players don’t want to tackle even with get stuck in instruction, strikers missing one on ones, not crossing when the opportunity arises, goalkeeper making ridiculous decisions and diving out the way of shots (or not diving at all)
 

I'm not expecting Instant success and blow through everyone and win everything in a couple of seasons but just looking to have something solid to build on with youngsters. Anyone have a similar issue and worked around it? 
 

cheers guys

[FMunderachiever]

Think you need to post the whole tactic and interaction of the roles.

Im sure it can be sorted

[Experienced Defender]

16 hours ago, matty_boy said:

Tried 4-2-3-1 gegenpress which everyone is saying is overpowered (Which is how Brighton play now)

Brighton do not play gegenpress in real life. Not every high-pressing tactic is gegenpress. They certainly play more attacking and attractive football now compared to previous seasons, but it's far from gegenpress. 

Post a screenshot of your tactic if you want to get any useful and meaningful advice.

[matty_boy]

20 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Brighton do not play gegenpress in real life. Not every high-pressing tactic is gegenpress. They certainly play more attacking and attractive football now compared to previous seasons, but it's far from gegenpress. 

Post a screenshot of your tactic if you want to get any useful and meaningful advice.

Hi guys, this is what I'm Struggling with at the moment. I'ts just so inconsistent. go from beating Liverpool 3-0 and Newcastle 5-0 to getting spanked 3-1 at home by Norwich who had ten men for 60 minutes!

 

Any suggestions would be greatly received

[s0ni42]

On the left, consider swapping IF to IW to get more horizontal action and allow Mez to get ‘ahead’ of him. I’d also consider putting one of the three left sided options to support (I’d say IW or WB).

5 attack toggles seems very high for Brighton level. Above suggestion gets you to 4. I’d consider changing one more to support.

On the right, a BBM and IW are not the best partnership imo as both move a little too much towards same spot. I’d consider either a IF / BBM combo or generally dialing back your aggressiveness with a more support-minded midfield role. My experience would suggest a Mez and BBM pairing should not be reserved for games you expect to completely control. Your midfield will be empty on a good counter.

 

much shorter passing and passing into space are contradictory. Make a choice here

Two BPD is super aggressive for Barca, much less Brighton. 
 

Overlap instructions are a little repetitive with inside moving forwards and aggressive fullbacks

Much lower tempo and quick GK distribution are contradictory. Make a choice here.

Countering with a low tempo seems contradictory but I could be convinced (I guess) Need some logic here.

I’d try generally simplifying what you’re doing here. So many team instructions it’s hard to really visualize what’s going on here. One constant is the aggressiveness. It VERY aggressive for a club of this stature (really any club imo)

Edited December 19, 2019 by s0ni42

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, matty_boy said:

 

4 hours ago, matty_boy said:

Any suggestions would be greatly received

I am really struggling to understand what are you trying to achieve with a tactic like this - and with Brighton at that ??? I mean, this would be waaaay too much even for world-class teams, let alone an EPL underdog. 

- Attacking mentality together with as many as 6 attack duties

- plus both overlaps

- plus focus through the middle

- plus run at defence

- plus extremely urgent pressing and get stuck in along with higher DL and LOE (not to mention the counter-press on top of all this)

And all that - again - under the Attacking mentality. 

I would change almost everything in this tactic... unless you are trying to create an exploit tactic. Only in that case it might make some sense.

[Experienced Defender]

1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

Attacking mentality together with as many as 6 attack duties

Actually 7 - if the keeper is counted.

[matty_boy]

6 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

I am really struggling to understand what are you trying to achieve with a tactic like this - and with Brighton at that ??? I mean, this would be waaaay too much even for world-class teams, let alone an EPL underdog. 

- Attacking mentality together with as many as 6 attack duties

- plus both overlaps

- plus focus through the middle

- plus run at defence

- plus extremely urgent pressing and get stuck in along with higher DL and LOE (not to mention the counter-press on top of all this)

And all that - again - under the Attacking mentality. 

I would change almost everything in this tactic... unless you are trying to create an exploit tactic. Only in that case it might make some sense.

What sort of things would you change and what too? Trying to create a tactic that doesn’t allow the opposition time in the ball but when we are in possession plays a quick tempo passing game 

these tactics will be the death of me and I refuse to plug and play ones from online!

[matty_boy]

8 hours ago, s0ni42 said:

On the left, consider swapping IF to IW to get more horizontal action and allow Mez to get ‘ahead’ of him. I’d also consider putting one of the three left sided options to support (I’d say IW or WB).

5 attack toggles seems very high for Brighton level. Above suggestion gets you to 4. I’d consider changing one more to support.

On the right, a BBM and IW are not the best partnership imo as both move a little too much towards same spot. I’d consider either a IF / BBM combo or generally dialing back your aggressiveness with a more support-minded midfield role. My experience would suggest a Mez and BBM pairing should not be reserved for games you expect to completely control. Your midfield will be empty on a good counter.

 

much shorter passing and passing into space are contradictory. Make a choice here

Two BPD is super aggressive for Barca, much less Brighton. 
 

Overlap instructions are a little repetitive with inside moving forwards and aggressive fullbacks

Much lower tempo and quick GK distribution are contradictory. Make a choice here.

Countering with a low tempo seems contradictory but I could be convinced (I guess) Need some logic here.

I’d try generally simplifying what you’re doing here. So many team instructions it’s hard to really visualize what’s going on here. One constant is the aggressiveness. It VERY aggressive for a club of this stature (really any club imo)

A lot of things to think about and try and I appreciated the suggestions just looking to create a quick passing game that doesn’t allow opposition much time on the ball. 
 

any other suggestions? 
 

thanks for the help though dude 👍🏼

[s0ni42]

8 hours ago, matty_boy said:

A lot of things to think about and try and I appreciated the suggestions just looking to create a quick passing game that doesn’t allow opposition much time on the ball. 
 

any other suggestions? 
 

thanks for the help though dude 👍🏼

If the goal is QUICK passing game I don’t think low tempo matches up with that philosophy.

NOT ALLOWING OTHER TEAM ON BALL to me means pass into space should be removed.

In summary there is just too much going on here. Start with your comment above. What about each instruction relates to your core philosophy? “A quick passing game that doesn’t allow opposition much time on the ball.” Only disclaimer I would make there is some level of flexibility as that philosophy will be challenging for many games for Brighton.

Much Shorter passing - yes

Pass into space - no

play out of defense - yes

low crosses - indifferent 

run at defense - no, you want to progress ball with pass right?

work ball into box - sure, but you may want to toggle this off when facing top teams and your shot total is limited.

be more expressive - no, this will make players play more aggressive and turn over possession more often. It’s a fine instruction but contradictory to what I understand your core philosophy to be.

focus play down middle, overlap right/left. I feel all are unnecessary. Your shape and width don’t scream middle play to me. If you want them to play quick passing game, allow players to make right read, don’t force their hand. Overlaps will occur with you current roles, redundant.

much Lower tempo - opposite of QUICK. if the goal was just short, sure.

distribute quickly - yes

counter press - yes

higher defensive line on LoE - yes, but this should swing based on opponent. High line against Liverpool ought to be fun

Get stuck in seems just reckless to me. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by s0ni42

[s0ni42]

Im not familiar with Brighton to a great degree and short passing, middle play is not really my fortay, but below are some tactical shapes that may be more conducive to what you are trying to do. I think a central attacking is probably key to create enough chances. A true #10.
 

41212, 3412, 4231, 41212

Edited December 20, 2019 by s0ni42

[Experienced Defender]

9 hours ago, matty_boy said:

What sort of things would you change and what too? Trying to create a tactic that doesn’t allow the opposition time in the ball but when we are in possession plays a quick tempo passing game

Whatever style of football you want to play, you need far less instructions and far more balanced and sensible setup of roles and duties. 

Positive mentality instead of attacking (still allows for faster transitions, but in a more measured fashion)

Split block instead of extremely urgent pressing (let the forward players press more aggressively, while others keep solid defensive shape)

A lot more support duties and much less attack duties (and the distribution of duties is as important as their overall number).

Essentially, you need the team to work as a unit when defending, and quickly transitioning into attack once the ball has been won. 

Considering the relative strength and reputation of Brighton as a team, this might be a good starting point (from the front to the back):

- The lone striker - PF on attack or DLF on attack or CF on attack (the role would depend on the type of your striker, i.e. his attributes and traits)

- Both wide forwards on support duty (one as the standard winger, the other as IF or IW, depending on how the rest of the system is set up)

So this would be the front three:

PFat/DLFat/CFat

IF/IWsu                                      Wsu

Central midfieled:

- One CM on attack duty to help with fast transitions and prevent the striker from getting too isolated (the role would depend on the striker's role)

- The other CM on support duty and in a more defensively responsible role (BWM would be a logical choice for how you want to play, but make sure you have the right player(s) for the role)

So this is how the central midfield would be set up:

BWMsu    APat/CMat

Together with the front 3:

PFat/DLFat/CFat

IF/IWsu                                   Wsu

BWMsu    APat/CMat

What about the DM role? Given that you have a pretty aggressive role (BWM) in central midfield, the DM should be less so. My preference would be the anchorman (in this particular setup)

So, this is what we have so far:

PFat/DLFat/CFat

IF/IWsu                                   Wsu

BWMsu    APat/CMat

ACM

So only the defense has remained:

- The LB should be more attack-minded than the RB, simply because his midfield partner (BWM) is more defense-minded than the other one + can create occasional natural overlaps with his wide partner (IF/IW)

- The RB needs to be more conservative as he needs to cover for the attack-minded CM on his side

So these could be possible fullback combos depending on the type(s) of players:

        FBat/WBsu                   FBsu/WBde/IWBde

When it comes to CBs, I would recommend against using both BPDs even for a top team, let alone Brighton. Therefore - either both as the standard CD or one standard CD and the other as BPD (or NCB):

CDde    BPD/NCBde

The keeper would preferably be SK on support duty, so that he would be encouraged to play occasional counter-attacking speculative passes, but not all the time (unless your keeper is Alison or Neuer).

So this is the first version of the setup:

PFat

IW/IFsu                                       Wsu

BWMsu         APat

ACM

FBat/WBsu   CDde  BPD/NCBde  FBsu/WBde/IWBde

SKsu

And this is an alternative one:

DLFat/CFat

IFsu                                                 Wsu

BWMsu        CMat

ACM

FBat/WBsu   CDde  BPD/NCBde  FBsu/WBde/IWBde

SKsu

In terms of instructions, I would start on the Positive mentality and with the only one instruction - counter. 

Then watch the match carefully and make small gradual tweaks if and where needed. 

Any questions?

 

 

[matty_boy]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Whatever style of football you want to play, you need far less instructions and far more balanced and sensible setup of roles and duties. 

Positive mentality instead of attacking (still allows for faster transitions, but in a more measured fashion)

Split block instead of extremely urgent pressing (let the forward players press more aggressively, while others keep solid defensive shape)

A lot more support duties and much less attack duties (and the distribution of duties is as important as their overall number).

Essentially, you need the team to work as a unit when defending, and quickly transitioning into attack once the ball has been won. 

Considering the relative strength and reputation of Brighton as a team, this might be a good starting point (from the front to the back):

- The lone striker - PF on attack or DLF on attack or CF on attack (the role would depend on the type of your striker, i.e. his attributes and traits)

- Both wide forwards on support duty (one as the standard winger, the other as IF or IW, depending on how the rest of the system is set up)

So this would be the front three:

PFat/DLFat/CFat

IF/IWsu                                      Wsu

Central midfieled:

- One CM on attack duty to help with fast transitions and prevent the striker from getting too isolated (the role would depend on the striker's role)

- The other CM on support duty and in a more defensively responsible role (BWM would be a logical choice for how you want to play, but make sure you have the right player(s) for the role)

So this is how the central midfield would be set up:

BWMsu    APat/CMat

Together with the front 3:

PFat/DLFat/CFat

IF/IWsu                                   Wsu

BWMsu    APat/CMat

What about the DM role? Given that you have a pretty aggressive role (BWM) in central midfield, the DM should be less so. My preference would be the anchorman (in this particular setup)

So, this is what we have so far:

PFat/DLFat/CFat

IF/IWsu                                   Wsu

BWMsu    APat/CMat

ACM

So only the defense has remained:

- The LB should be more attack-minded than the RB, simply because his midfield partner (BWM) is more defense-minded than the other one + can create occasional natural overlaps with his wide partner (IF/IW)

- The RB needs to be more conservative as he needs to cover for the attack-minded CM on his side

So these could be possible fullback combos depending on the type(s) of players:

        FBat/WBsu                   FBsu/WBde/IWBde

When it comes to CBs, I would recommend against using both BPDs even for a top team, let alone Brighton. Therefore - either both as the standard CD or one standard CD and the other as BPD (or NCB):

CDde    BPD/NCBde

The keeper would preferably be SK on support duty, so that he would be encouraged to play occasional counter-attacking speculative passes, but not all the time (unless your keeper is Alison or Neuer).

So this is the first version of the setup:

PFat

IW/IFsu                                       Wsu

BWMsu         APat

ACM

FBat/WBsu   CDde  BPD/NCBde  FBsu/WBde/IWBde

SKsu

And this is an alternative one:

DLFat/CFat

IFsu                                                 Wsu

BWMsu        CMat

ACM

FBat/WBsu   CDde  BPD/NCBde  FBsu/WBde/IWBde

SKsu

In terms of instructions, I would start on the Positive mentality and with the only one instruction - counter. 

Then watch the match carefully and make small gradual tweaks if and where needed. 

Any questions?

 

 

Unreal response ms and it’s helped massively to understand. Thanks massively to both you. Will try put the suggestions tonight and will report back if that’s ok why you! 

[Experienced Defender]

Yes, report back please. Because what I proposed is just a staring point, not a finished tactical setup. 

[s0ni42]

There’s never a single answer. That’s why I would always suggest being simple in early stages of developing a tactic. I primarily use instructions to attack/counter something the opposition is doing within a particular match; not as a wholesale rule to how we play. This is especially true when managing anything other than a top tier team that can exhibit their will on every club they face. And even then, I trust you see the countless threads frustrated that their tactic cannot score against a low block or gets stale/less effective as season progresses.

Edited December 20, 2019 by s0ni42