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Aksi92

Possession tactic cant create chances

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Okay this is my first try ever to make really possession based tactic. I read few articles on this site about that. Very nice stuff guys well done.

So yeah I got the common problem. Possession is here, passing is mostly very nice, but cant create good chances for my players.

When I put some player on attack (winger or AP) seems like I am losing a lot of possession because of that. Dont know why is that. Defence is leaky, I am easily countered. My midfielder make a wrong pass, they got the ball and one pass over my defence make it CCC for them. My wingers also drible a lot and losing balls. About defence I tried everything, droping deeper seemed a lot worse. Putting CB on cover didnt helped either.

Other thing bothering me is why my players are panicing? I will upload a gif of I goal I recieved against Arsenal in CL. So firstly we won the ball, then my MC decided to give it right away when he had better options and wasnt even under pressure. Okay few seconds later they lost the ball, my LB got it and he has 3 open players but did he pass? Of course not, he waited to get tackled and lose the ball and sure they scored.

I need some advices to get this going. Its really fun save and I really want to make it succeed.

I am open for discussion how to make things work. I dont expect just "do this" and its done. Thanks guys!

 

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I don't know your players ofcourse, but from this GIF i would think that Junca and Lobotka miss some composure, they couldn't keep an cool head during your attempted counter, and when your counter was unsuccesfull.

A few other pointers based on that GIF:

- Also, your counter wasn't succesfull because Lobotka could find anyone to pass to (this could be down to the player, check his vision, composure). One small tweak you could implement, is too give your striker (or one of your wingers) an attack duty. That will make      them available for a long pass. 

- Arsenal has a lot of space to move between your lines. You can mitigate this by pulling your Line of Engagement down a bit. Having your LoE one notch further  down than you DL will compress the field a bit, making it harder for your opposition to find space between your lines. This has the added benefit of creating space behind their defensive line for your attackers to run into (hence my first point about the attack duty). 

 

I hope this helps!

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1 hour ago, Br4nco said:

I don't know your players ofcourse, but from this GIF i would think that Junca and Lobotka miss some composure, they couldn't keep an cool head during your attempted counter, and when your counter was unsuccesfull.

A few other pointers based on that GIF:

- Also, your counter wasn't succesfull because Lobotka could find anyone to pass to (this could be down to the player, check his vision, composure). One small tweak you could implement, is too give your striker (or one of your wingers) an attack duty. That will make      them available for a long pass. 

- Arsenal has a lot of space to move between your lines. You can mitigate this by pulling your Line of Engagement down a bit. Having your LoE one notch further  down than you DL will compress the field a bit, making it harder for your opposition to find space between your lines. This has the added benefit of creating space behind their defensive line for your attackers to run into (hence my first point about the attack duty). 

 

I hope this helps!

Lobotka have composure, vision and concetration over 16. So he is good. But I dont wanna to play counter attacks. We are building slowly from behind. I am having my striker on support, because i want him to be involved in a game and to open space for both IF.

I will try that with LoE hope it works. For attacking trio maybe two IW with DLF-A?

 

Ideally i would like F9/DLF-S, IF-A on one wing and IW-S on other. AP-A middle with CM-S/BTB. But tried it couple of times and doesnt seem to work. My IF-A doesnt play the passing game, he is not much involved and when he gets the ball he just dribles..

Edited by Aksi92

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5 hours ago, Aksi92 said:

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This setup does not offer any meaningful penetration (or attacking bite, if you will). You don't have a single attack duty, and your team mentality (Balanced) does not help to make your attacks (a bit) more incisive, either. Therefore it's no surprise you are struggling to transform possession into something tangible. It is a possession-for-the-sake-of-possession tactic. On top of that, there is absolutely no variety on the flanks in terms of roles and duties - both fullbacks are FBs on support, and both wingers are IFs on support. 

Edited by Experienced Defender

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

This setup does not offer any meaningful penetration (or attacking bite, if you will). You don't have a single attack duty, and your team mentality (Balanced) does not help to make your attacks (a bit) more incisive, either. Therefore it's no surprise you are struggling to transform possession into something tangible. It is a possession-for-the-sake-of-possession tactic. On top of that, there is absolutely no variety on the flanks in terms of roles and duties - both fullbacks are FBs on support, and both wingers are IFs on support. 

Just out of interest, why is identical flanks a bad thing?

I don't know these players but lets suppose that the winger left and right had different PPM's, one had one to dribble down the left flank, the other had cut inside from right wing or get into the area.

Or what if you had two exceptional wingers who could beat their man in a 1 v 1 situation.

Why would it be a bad thing to ignore this?

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26 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Just out of interest, why is identical flanks a bad thing?

I don't know these players but lets suppose that the winger left and right had different PPM's, one had one to dribble down the left flank, the other had cut inside from right wing or get into the area.

Or what if you had two exceptional wingers who could beat their man in a 1 v 1 situation.

Why would it be a bad thing to ignore this?

I'm no expert but I don't think identical flanks is necessarily a bad thing, just here they're identical and there's no penetration.

I've seen plenty of tactics with both wingers on attack duty that have worked, like anything else it depends on the other roles around them. Using that as an example you would probably end up splitting your team into an attacking unit fairly advanced and a more defensive unit deeper. In that circumstance, a short passing game might not be appropriate as your players would be a fair distance apart.

I think the main reason for not making both flanks the same is to give a bit of variety, so that your attacks are a bit less predictable.

For the OP, I'd change one of the inside forwards to an attack duty,the opposite side full back to an attack duty and the other inside forward to winger on support.

 

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46 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Just out of interest, why is identical flanks a bad thing?

It's not necessarily a bad thing but it doesn't really offer variety unless you rely on completely different players in the same roles.  Variety in attacking play can be good otherwise it may become a bit one dimensional and predictable.

@Aksi92  As others are saying, you don't really have much in the way of penetration.  Everyone has a support duty, where's the oompf?  Your DLF will be dropping deep, but nobody is really attacking the space he is opening - an aggressive runner from midfield and/or one of the flanks could go a long way to helping here.  Also, is work ball into box always useful?

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

It's not necessarily a bad thing but it doesn't really offer variety unless you rely on completely different players in the same roles.  Variety in attacking play can be good otherwise it may become a bit one dimensional and predictable.

@Aksi92  As others are saying, you don't really have much in the way of penetration.  Everyone has a support duty, where's the oompf?  Your DLF will be dropping deep, but nobody is really attacking the space he is opening - an aggressive runner from midfield and/or one of the flanks could go a long way to helping here.  Also, is work ball into box always useful?

Actually I realised that about Work ball into box. In my mind I thought I cant play possession tactic without that, cause my players would cross a lot more or try long shots. So early I decided to play without that, put my striker on DLF-A, both wingers on IW-S, and my DM to DLP-S. Its working okay. I am not sure aobut DM yet. Just improvising things for now.

But to summary I create a lot more chances now.

 

BTW isnt BBM agressive runner from midfield? Or you had more like CM-A in mind?

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3 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

Just out of interest, why is identical flanks a bad thing?

A matter of personal preference. I prefer to have variety in order for my attacks to be less predictable. But there obviously are tactics that work well despite being one-dimensional (including some of Rashidi's). 

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17 hours ago, Aksi92 said:

I am having my striker on support, because i want him to be involved in a game and to open space for both IF

I understand, i also like to play like that! Recently i've been experimenting with a Pressing Forward on attack. I must say that i really like that role. A pressing forward (even with an attack duty) tends to drop deep and help out in midfield, before bursting forward in to the box. 

To create more chances, may i suggest something (just a bit of friendly advice :) ) 

You could set up your midfield and attack like this:

                       PFa

IW/IFa                                      Wsu

             DLP/CARsu   MEZsu

                      DMde

This setup will allow you to create an overload with the Mezzala and the winger. Lobotka would be good as an mezzala i recon. From there, the winger/mezzala combo have two options:

- A killer ball to the PFa

- A cross to the far post, for the IF/IWa to tap in

Edited by Br4nco

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In the gif you conceded a goal due to the combination of play out of defense and Arsenal using a high press. This was a typical counter press goal. Really your player needs to put his laces through that and clear the danger. It is always a risk to play out from the back when you are under a heavy press.

As others have noted, the lack of an attack duty is problematic. Who is supposed to be scoring your goals? Everyone is looking to make space, nobody is looking to use it. In the counter attacking phase this is noticeable. Do you want to play with a counter attack? Because you need to have at least one player who stays further forward for that. When I am playing a pure counter strategy I will typically have at least 2 of my front 3 with attack duties. This means they look to move forward when we win the ball back, and that is what you if you are going to launch a quick counter. You can still get wingers to defend by forcing them to man mark, and they will burst forward from deep.

The way you set up is probably what I would do if I was looking to close out a game where I am winning comfortably. It is very risk averse, and defends by keeping the ball for long periods without really trying to do anything with it.

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I have a new setup and it looks a lot better now.

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Quote

I understand, i also like to play like that! Recently i've been experimenting with a Pressing Forward on attack. I must say that i really like that role. A pressing forward (even with an attack duty) tends to drop deep and help out in midfield, before bursting forward in to the box. 

To create more chances, may i suggest something (just a bit of friendly advice :) ) 

You could set up your midfield and attack like this:

                       PFa

IW/IFa                                      Wsu

             DLP/CARsu   MEZsu

                      DMde

This setup will allow you to create an overload with the Mezzala and the winger. Lobotka would be good as an mezzala i recon. From there, the winger/mezzala combo have two options:

- A killer ball to the PFa

- A cross to the far post, for the IF/IWa to tap in

Havent really thought of having Winger on possession based tactic. How does he behave? Probably standing wide and waiting for a ball to cross.

Edited by Aksi92

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I dont really understand this game. So tactic was nice, great results and everything. Suddenly my players forgot how to play and I went for 6 games without win, with poor play and 1-2 chances per game. I dont know what happened.

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58 minutes ago, Aksi92 said:

I dont really understand this game. So tactic was nice, great results and everything. Suddenly my players forgot how to play and I went for 6 games without win, with poor play and 1-2 chances per game. I dont know what happened.

I am just guessing, but it could well be that your unexpected run of good results - and the consequent overachievement - has made other teams respect you more and adapt their tactics accordingly. That's what usually happens when a team starts punching above its weight. 

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