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Wolf_pd

FM2020 World Rebuild - a start

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I enjoyed the FM16 Iron Curtain mod a lot and after seeing room for improved got MBarbaric' blessing to try and upgrade it. I admit, I failed, mostly because I would get new ideas and start over.

In FM2020 I started a new attempt. Right now I am testing how to remove Nations from the game. Yes, completely removing. The first test is running with Lithuanian data moved to Russia. The test will run the night, so you will hear more tomorrow.

For your information, untill I have anything playable (or usable) available for download, this thread will remain in the main forum and not the download section.

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You can remove every nation when you remove continent setting. Also you must make sure there is no international competition that requires that nation in order to prevent game crash.

I helped mbarbaric back then with advices so if you need any help- im here.

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Thank you.

I have noticed a few nations causing crashes (Ukraine among others) even when you have both international competition and the continent removed, but that's part of the work I am doing now, so I will see what happens.

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Yeah thats how i make my files also. You need first to find what exactly caused that crash. Take a look when game is loading - database or competition screen.

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I am doing them one by one and also doing some data edits to make competition building and regional competitions easier. Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia are now out. Moldova is next, then the Caucasus and the Central Asian nations. After that it is time for Belarus, Ukraine/Crimea.

I had to redo some stuff because of the insights from some other files.

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Ukraine is in test and the game runs smoothly now.

So now to decide whether I redo a Iron Curtain mod or some of my own World building. Choices, choices... ;)

At least we will see a strong Caribean with the West Indies Federation team and a combined Antilles team.

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On 12/12/2019 at 22:07, Wolf_pd said:

I enjoyed the FM16 Iron Curtain mod a lot and after seeing room for improved got MBarbaric' blessing to try and upgrade it. I admit, I failed, mostly because I would get new ideas and start over.

In FM2020 I started a new attempt. Right now I am testing how to remove Nations from the game. Yes, completely removing. The first test is running with Lithuanian data moved to Russia. The test will run the night, so you will hear more tomorrow.

For your information, untill I have anything playable (or usable) available for download, this thread will remain in the main forum and not the download section.

I don't know how useful it will be to you, but in my endeavours in doing similar things, I've left a thread that has a lot of information on the issues I've encountered. I hope it can be useful to you. The short of it is that you will have to rebuild most if not every international competition due to some mixture of obscure cross-dependencies, hard-coded rules and editor evil magic. :onmehead:

 

Wait, I think you've posted in that thread. Whoops.:ackter:

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14 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

Wait, I think you've posted in that thread. Whoops.:ackter:

:D 

I actually made my start by simply deleting every international competition. So this removes all possible connections between nations and international competitions. I have done that in a separate file, so whenever I would decide to add a competition, I undo the delete of a specific competition. Somewhat overdoing it, but it gives good insight in the connections between competitions. It explained to me why the Confiederations Cup and Club World Champions Cup are essentially the most important competitions in the game database wise.

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Posted (edited)
On 30/12/2019 at 11:37, Wolf_pd said:

I actually made my start by simply deleting every international competition. So this removes all possible connections between nations and international competitions. I have done that in a separate file, so whenever I would decide to add a competition, I undo the delete of a specific competition. Somewhat overdoing it, but it gives good insight in the connections between competitions. It explained to me why the Confederations Cup and Club World Champions Cup are essentially the most important competitions in the game database wise.

If it weren't for international competitions, I would've had (and did have) something up and running rather quickly. SI probably doesn't bother with the Editor either considering quite a few of those competitions are combined with or exclusively use rules in code (aka hard-coded rules). I know someone back in FM18 had redone the World Cup from scratch to account for the possibility of Qatar hosting 48 teams. Maybe it was in the same project, but someone had done the UEFA Nations League from scratch as well. So at some level, some of it doesn't require hard-coded rules as much as very creative thinking when working with the limited and frustrating toolset the Editor gives us. On the flip side of that, the Iron Curtain db back in FM16 was using very simplified rules international competitions instead of recreating real ones.

Tl; Dr: If you do bother to redo all international competitions faithfully, I'd sign up. It's way above my pay grade. :lol:  Hell, I need to reinstall the additional editor options I had in FM19 back to FM20 (like adding/removing countries from continents, editing EURO coefficients...) and the like. Not sure I'll bother racking my brain this year. :onmehead:

Edited by BMNJohn

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 If I redo the Iron Curtain mod it will be as close as possible, possibly with 'realistic' changes to the national competitions. A lot of information is missing on them. The international competitions would be realistic, information is widely available.

Alternatively I could do a fictional World rebuild for my own fun.

I have halted my edit work for the moment knowing there will be a data update and I don't want to redo stuff. Have seen things go wrong before.

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Posted (edited)

The worst that could happen are clubs going defunct/bankrupt, the rest should hold. It doesn't help create club competitions (unless you try to account for a flexible number of team), but for a proof of concept and global planning, it shouldn't matter too much. I generally just load a separate file with a database emptied of all its real people to make simulating/holidaying through the seasons quicker and simpler. It also allowed me to check for behaviours among generated players (nationalities, languages, name pool, etc.).

Edited by BMNJohn

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I tend to revive some teams and on FM16 it crashed my game, because some data changes turned out to be teams being removed (for whatever reason). Took me quite a while to work out what was wrong there.

On reviving teams, it might be a bit of strange one but teams were obviously (part) run by government offices in many cases, so teams that have gone defunct, should not have to go broke in the Iron Curtain era. Also, it allows for more teams, which in some cases is very much needed to work out a decent competition tree.

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I suppose you can start with building international competitions instead since the number of countries shouldn't change too much! :lol:

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I started with Soviet Union again, since I can reuse quite a bit of what I already did.

International Competition when done properly are a bit more complex than I am currently capable of. So that means looking up files, see how people have done things and such.

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If you are interested, I've done basic modifications for Yugoslavia. This includes:

  1. To Yugoslavia: adding agreements, tactical attributes, formations, rival nations, EU nations, languages, transfer preferences, wage/transfer values;
  2. To clubs: sorting them by country (placed in seven different local regions), changing continental cup nation, adding cities whenever missing (added to the nearest municipality if available, city created otherwise);
  3. To competitions: made current competitions inactive , made Prva Liga, Druga Liga and Kup Tito active with vague VAR/Goal Line rules (TV matches only), created a third division and a super cup with super cup having the little history it has (three winners according to Wiki, wasn't hard), added a lower division.

I think that's it. You would have to check for the handful of II clubs that aren't assigned to a competition. There are 20 clubs in the top three divisions sorted by reputation. In FM19, I had put clubs qualified for the CL and EL in the top two divisions regardless of their reputation... which had catastrophic results in the first couple of seasons: the disparity in reputation (which has far more influence on results than the quality of players) made the less repute clubs get absolutely destroyed. :lol:

For the wages and transfer values, I used the highest values of all seven countries. For the transfer preferences, I used the most preferential setting of all countries. For tax values, I used the most severe and harshest rules of them all. EURO coefficient, tactical values, Youth Rating, FA patience, Reputation were all picked up from Croatia as it's the most reputable country. That said, you would still have to add famous players, and personality values since I've just noticed that they are no longer visible in the Editor.

Anyway, ask questions and modify however you want. I just hope it can be of use to you. :)

Yugoslav Basic Data.fmf

Edited by BMNJohn

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15 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

If you are interested, I've done basic modifications for Yugoslavia. This includes:

  1. To Yugoslavia: adding agreements, tactical attributes, formations, rival nations, EU nations, languages, transfer preferences, wage/transfer values;
  2. To clubs: sorting them by country (placed in seven different local regions), changing continental cup nation, adding cities whenever missing (added to the nearest municipality if available, city created otherwise);
  3. To competitions: made current competitions inactive , made Prva Liga, Druga Liga and Kup Tito active with vague VAR/Goal Line rules (TV matches only), created a third division and a super cup with super cup having the little history it has (three winners according to Wiki, wasn't hard), added a lower division.

I think that's it. You would have to check for the handful of II clubs that aren't assigned to a competition. There are 20 clubs in the top three divisions sorted by reputation. In FM19, I had put clubs qualified for the CL and EL in the top two divisions regardless of their reputation... which had catastrophic results in the first couple of seasons: the disparity in reputation (which has far more influence on results than the quality of players) made the less repute clubs get absolutely destroyed. :lol:

For the wages and transfer values, I used the highest values of all seven countries. For the transfer preferences, I used the most preferential setting of all countries. For tax values, I used the most severe and harshest rules of them all. EURO coefficient, tactical values, Youth Rating, FA patience, Reputation were all picked up from Croatia as it's the most reputable country. That said, you would still have to add famous players, and personality values since I've just noticed that they are no longer visible in the Editor.

Anyway, ask questions and modify however you want. I just hope it can be of use to you. :)

Yugoslav Basic Data.fmf 115.27 kB · 0 downloads

How did you enable continent in fm20 for extinct nations? Can you write me a guide if possible? Thank you!

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5 hours ago, josuts said:

How did you enable continent in fm20 for extinct nations? Can you write me a guide if possible? Thank you!

 

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On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 22:45, BMNJohn said:

 

ok.Finally I was able to enable the continent so I'm ready to edit extinct nations.Now my other question is how will I put the edited nation to all competitions?

Edited by josuts

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On 19/01/2020 at 13:56, josuts said:

ok.Finally I was able to enable the continent so I'm ready to edit extinct nations.Now my other question is how will I put the edited nation to all competitions?

As written above in this thread, be prepared to have to re-build from the ground up a lot of competitions, especially international ones. There's no nice way to put it: if you're not just swapping out one nation for another one, it's a huge task to make the whole thing work.

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10 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

As written above in this thread, be prepared to have to re-build from the ground up a lot of competitions, especially international ones. There's no nice way to put it: if you're not just swapping out one nation for another one, it's a huge task to make the whole thing work.

Indeed my friend! I had a look the previous days till my editor crashed! So only certain way is to rename Serbia to Yugoslavia and take it from there.But what about the clubs competitions? the teams I guess will continue to represent their home countries(Croatia,bosnia etc)

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You can move all teams to Serbia. They will no longer represent their original country. The problem there is that the game will start compensating, the Croatian place will be filled with a team from a still existing country. That's why the competition need to be rebuild.

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1 hour ago, Wolf_pd said:

You can move all teams to Serbia. They will no longer represent their original country. The problem there is that the game will start compensating, the Croatian place will be filled with a team from a still existing country. That's why the competition need to be rebuild.

Oh! Now I get your point.i can understand that it will affect the clubs competitions and probably the nations one

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On 25/01/2020 at 08:20, josuts said:

Indeed my friend! I had a look the previous days till my editor crashed! So only certain way is to rename Serbia to Yugoslavia and take it from there.But what about the clubs competitions? the teams I guess will continue to represent their home countries(Croatia,bosnia etc)

Whether you rename Serbia to Yugoslavia or resurrect Yugoslavia proper*, you still will have to rebuild about everything related to international competitions. And that's mostly because you'd have 6 to 7 completely useless nations you need to remove from those competitions so that they don't interfere. An alternative and softer solution would be to use Yugoslavia as a wrapper for ex-Yugoslavian countries: the national teams would stay separate, but all clubs would be representing Yugoslavia in CL/EL and would share the same league. Bar the one or two Yugoslavian regen generated every year that never gets signed to any club, it works pretty well; but if your goal is actually resurrecting old nations, it may be unsatisfactory to you. Since you would be adding Yugoslavia on top of other European countries but that the UEFA Nations' League only calls the 55 best teams in Europe, I don't think Yugoslavia would even participate in the Nations' League. I think it also applies to other international competitions, but I'd have to check my old thread to remember what I've written about it.

You could also leave other ex-Yugo nations in the game instead of removing them, which is a bit less clean, but a bit less of a headache. But if your goal is to rebuild the world as it once was, you probably wouldn't want to keep this nations in FM even if they have nothing in them (people, clubs, cities, etc.). They would still participate to the Nations' League ironically; even if they weren't full FIFA members. It's still better to rebuild as the groups where those countries would be would de facto be easier, as those teams would be handing out free points at every International Tournaments. :onmehead:

*I haven't found a real technical difference between renaming Serbia and calling Yugoslavia back: hell, I even swapped Yugoslavia with France and removed France from the game back in FM19, and it worked perfectly fine once you tell the Nations' League to fetch the right team.

Edited by BMNJohn

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13 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

Whether you rename Serbia to Yugoslavia or resurrect Yugoslavia proper*, you still will have to rebuild about everything related to international competitions. And that's mostly because you'd have 6 to 7 completely useless nations you need to remove from those competitions so that they don't interfere. An alternative and softer solution would be to use Yugoslavia as a wrapper for ex-Yugoslavian countries: the national teams would stay separate, but all clubs would be representing Yugoslavia in CL/EL and would share the same league. Bar the one or two Yugoslavian regen generated every year that never gets signed to any club, it works pretty well; but if your goal is actually resurrecting old nations, it may be unsatisfactory to you. Since you would be adding Yugoslavia on top of other European countries but that the UEFA Nations' League only calls the 55 best teams in Europe, I don't think Yugoslavia would even participate in the Nations' League. I think it also applies to other international competitions, but I'd have to check my old thread to remember what I've written about it.

You could also leave other ex-Yugo nations in the game instead of removing them, which is a bit less clean, but a bit less of a headache. But if your goal is to rebuild the world as it once was, you probably wouldn't want to keep this nations in FM even if they have nothing in them (people, clubs, cities, etc.). They would still participate to the Nations' League ironically; even if they weren't full FIFA members. It's still better to rebuild as the groups where those countries would be would de facto be easier, as those teams would be handing out free points at every International Tournaments. :onmehead:

*I haven't found a real technical difference between renaming Serbia and calling Yugoslavia back: hell, I even swapped Yugoslavia with France and removed France from the game back in FM19, and it worked perfectly fine once you tell the Nations' League to fetch the right team.

ok.So what if I transfer all cities,clubs,competitions,people to Serbia after I rename it Yugoslavia.But in clubs if I leave the continental cup competition to the country they belong and change only the rest would that affect the clubs and nations competitions? I mean that the competition could still choose a team from Croatia.Also I will like to make new nation rules and put all competitions from 7 countries into one.Will all that work?

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8 hours ago, josuts said:

ok.So what if I transfer all cities,clubs,competitions,people to Serbia after I rename it Yugoslavia.But in clubs if I leave the continental cup competition to the country they belong and change only the rest would that affect the clubs and nations competitions? I mean that the competition could still choose a team from Croatia.Also I will like to make new nation rules and put all competitions from 7 countries into one.Will all that work?

The way I see it without testing it, it wouldn't work for one simple reason: there wouldn't be a way for Croatians (for example) to qualify for the Champions' League... without a league champion. For example, while Liechtenstein clubs play in the Swiss league while still representing Liechtenstein in continental cup competitions, they still have a cup (FL1 Aktiv-Cup) that determines which Liechtensteiner club qualifies for the Europa League (no club from Liechtenstein can play the CL).

Edited by BMNJohn

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9 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

The way I see it without testing it, it wouldn't work for one simple reason: there wouldn't be a way for Croatians (for example) to qualify for the Champions' League... without a league champion. For example, while Liechtenstein clubs play in the Swiss league while still representing Liechtenstein in continental cup competitions, they still have a cup (FL1 Aktiv-Cup) that determines which Liechtensteiner club qualifies for the Europa League (no club from Liechtenstein can play the CL).

yes I understand that it needs a lot of testing first! Well,i would do it like that and test it for a while to see if al works or not.Then i'll check again:)

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On 29/01/2020 at 07:46, josuts said:

yes I understand that it needs a lot of testing first! Well,i would do it like that and test it for a while to see if al works or not.Then i'll check again:)

What I didn't explicitely mention despite (somewhat) implying it, is that the Champions' League and Europa League are flexible enough in its format and team requirements that you wouldn't need to rebuild it if you were to remove all ex-Yugo countries in favour of resurrecting Yugoslavia; details in the thread I've linked up above. Which is pretty neat: you're removing six countries and something like 4-6 teams per country and European Football competitions still work fine. It wasn't the case in older FMs, but in recent ones it does work fine.

Now, I cannot tell you what would happen if you were to also resurrect Czechoslovakia (removes one country), USSR (removes 10 countries from Europe and 4 from Asia) and split Germany in two again (adds one country); but in the likelihood that the "re-building" part means "going back to pre-Bosman and pre-Berlin wall football", you would be re-building European club competitions anyway so that only league champions qualify for the CL.

Edited by BMNJohn

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On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 15:49, BMNJohn said:

What I didn't explicitely mention despite (somewhat) implying it, is that the Champions' League and Europa League are flexible enough in its format and team requirements that you wouldn't need to rebuild it if you were to remove all ex-Yugo countries in favour of resurrecting Yugoslavia; details in the thread I've linked up above. Which is pretty neat: you're removing six countries and something like 4-6 teams per country and European Football competitions still work fine. It wasn't the case in older FMs, but in recent ones it does work fine.

Now, I cannot tell you what would happen if you were to also resurrect Czechoslovakia (removes one country), USSR (removes 10 countries from Europe and 4 from Asia) and split Germany in two again (adds one country); but in the likelihood that the "re-building" part means "going back to pre-Bosman and pre-Berlin wall football", you would be re-building European club competitions anyway so that only league champions qualify for the CL.

Hey dear friend.I send you the file with what I had edit.I rename Serbia to Yugoslavia and I made a league include all ex yug countries.Change people,cities,staff.I let the club in continental competiton to its prior country.for example dynamo zag to Croatia and so on.i made the database for my own use only but if you have time you can have a look and let me know.I use a laptop but its not so powerful so I can't test it all night.Do change things and test and let me know if you please:)

 

Thanks,Yannis

YUGOSLAVIA.fmf

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2 minutes ago, josuts said:

Change people,cities,staff.

If you do that and change the people's nationality to Yugo...serbian :D, clubs in European competitions will not be able to meet home-grown requirements. The national teams and nationalities need to remain separate. You do not need to move clubs, cities or stadiums to Yugoslavia, because the country a club's stadium is in will influence the nationality of the generated players. In other words, no one should have Yugoslavian for nationality.

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55 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:

If you do that and change the people's nationality to Yugo...serbian :D, clubs in European competitions will not be able to meet home-grown requirements. The national teams and nationalities need to remain separate. You do not need to move clubs, cities or stadiums to Yugoslavia, because the country a club's stadium is in will influence the nationality of the generated players. In other words, no one should have Yugoslavian for nationality.

in any case have a look if you have time and let me know:) As I mention I made it only for my own pleasure to use and not to upload it to forums around

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18 minutes ago, josuts said:

in any case have a look if you have time and let me know:) As I mention I made it only for my own pleasure to use and not to upload it to forums around

I cannot currently check that and simulate for you, you'll need to do it yourself. However, I can hand you an Empty Database which has no people in it at all. It will simulate quicker, and it will generate well... regens/newgens instead. You will be able to check what citizenship the players that are generated at the beginning of the save and in youth intakes, and see if FM crashes at some point.

Empty Database.fmf

Edited by BMNJohn

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38 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:

I cannot currently check that and simulate for you, you'll need to do it yourself. However, I can hand you an Empty Database which has no people in it at all. It will simulate quicker, and it will generate well... regens/newgens instead. You will be able to check what citizenship the players that are generated at the beginning of the save and in youth intakes, and see if FM crashes at some point.

Empty Database.fmf 5.9 MB · 0 downloads

ok.thanks

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