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Does Anyone Use A Libero? And If So, How Best To Utilise Him? (Manchester City)

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Hello Everyone.

Wanted to get some thoughts on the use of a libero in a tactic. The Libero is a role that ive only ever used once, and I really want to experiment with the game and use some of the more uncommon roles to build tactics.

Ive got a couple of saves on the go at the moment but im enjoying Man City.

I turned 1st transfer window off, i want to manage the team Pep is managing this season and that means a quite dodgy back line as Man City. Were a couple of points off Liverpool in top spot, so no big deal, and going well in the Carabao Cup and Champions League.

 

But i want to use the Libero position in the hope that:

  • It can give some defensive cover to a weak centre back partnership
  • Id like him to camp around the half way line IN possession and become an extra creative player to break down packed defences from a deeper position

Overall ambition of the tactic is to:

  • Play through the lines with short sharp passing, using the libero to start attacks from the back and always being available for a pass from the wing backs or centre backs
  • Walk the ball into the net with neat build up
  • Lots of positional rotation (something i thought was very interesting from the club DNA thread on Ajax)
  • Defend from the front with an energetic split press and counter pressing in transition (front 4 are set to press more urgently as PI's)

 

Ive gone for the following tactic so far, just looking for advice on how to improve this:

1759135222_ScreenShot2019-12-08at23_01_15.thumb.png.3533ad62879987777fadd1e3805d3027.png

What im thinking with this tactic is that:

  • Maybe it might be a good thing to use a twin mezzala partnership in midfield? As both mezzala's will go wide enough that the libero can create a central midfield 3, whilst the two wide attacking players will come and sit more central, combined with Aguero's PPM to drop deep

 

  • I swap the libero position with Fernandinho and Rodri. Rodri is better than Fernandinho in terms of his positioning, game reading and concentration, but Fernandino is better on the ball in terms of his passing, his vision and technique. Tackling is roughly the same. So, would you opt for the better "passer and technician" as the libero, or the more defensively minded "steady player" as the libero?

 

  • Are there any obvious weaknesses that will eventually make this tactic fail/is it just a bad approach to be using?

 

Thanks everyone

 

 

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I have no experience or insight with a libero, but I look forward to reading about your experience. Obviously you'll need the right player: Beckenbauer might not be up to it anymore!

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Nope, no one sane of mind would. Why? Because it's a waste. First it's not a Libero, just a glorified DC. A Libero does not mark, while this mark like a normal DC, a Libero does move behind the DC(s), while this stays in line or just half a meter behind your DCs (possibly breaking your offside trap in change of nothing). This is just a glorified BPD that does little to help in the attacking phase. In Attack position it can completely leave its position making you vulnerable to counterattacks. A DM does cover better the space left behind by midfielders and also support better in the attacking phase.

Anyway it's playable, especially if you are bored, still it's a waste (and don't call it a Libero :D). I played it successfully (Tottenham-Zenith 3-0), but find it stupid to choose it over a DM.

Edited by Tetsuro P12

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2 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Nope, no one sane of mind would. Why? Because it's a waste. First it's not a Libero, just a glorified DC. A Libero does not mark, while this mark like a normal DC, a Libero does move behind the DC(s), while this stays in line or just half a meter behind your DCs (possibly breaking your offside trap in change of nothing). This is just a glorified BPD that does little to help in the attacking phase. In Attack position it can completely leave its position making you vulnerable to counterattacks. A DM does cover better the space left behind by midfielders and also support better in the attacking phase.

Anyway it's playable, especially if you are bored, still it's a waste (and don't call it a Libero :D). I played it successfully (Tottenham-Zenith 3-0), but find it stupid to choose it over a DM.

This is a disappointing experience :( :( 

I'm trying to use a libero as a kind of reverse half back. I want him to be part of a back three when we are defending, yet want him to join in with attacks when we have the ball. I want players crafting out chances from deep, and always being available for a pass.

I also think of Fernandinho in real life, and how occasionally when nothing is on, he will deliver a stinging shot from distance that takes the net off. Id like to have that option available as a route to goal too.

It may just be my own confirmation bias but ive seen some positive signs from the libero.......I don't know maybe its just because I'm a good team and can break the opposition down a few different ways?

Thank You

 

 

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I tried in my first season at Boro. The results were...not good. I never saw the libero get far enough forward to make an impact in the final third and more often than not he was just out of position defensively most of the time. I reverted to a BPD instead and that seemed to be much better. In my second season I changed from a back 3 to a back 4 with a DM, who does a better job of doing the libero role than my defenders would.

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30 minutes ago, Mike J said:

I tried in my first season at Boro. The results were...not good. I never saw the libero get far enough forward to make an impact in the final third and more often than not he was just out of position defensively most of the time. I reverted to a BPD instead and that seemed to be much better. In my second season I changed from a back 3 to a back 4 with a DM, who does a better job of doing the libero role than my defenders would.

Thanks for the response.

I'm thinking given the responses I'm getting, this might end up being a failed experiment.

A few ideas have come to mind:

 

  • If you have a defensive midfielder who has the qualities you would look for in a libero, do you think that retraining him as a centre back and then teaching him the trait of "bring ball out of defence" could achieve this objective of having a deep, deep lying playmaker?

 

  • If opting not to use a libero and reverting to a "normal" centre back pairing, should the wing backs go back into the LB/RB strata and the formation become more of a 4-1-4-1 type formation?

 

  • Would just a "normal" Defensive Midfielder on support with the PI's to attempt more risky passes and get further forward be the best idea? (I don't think deep lying playmaker is suitable because I don't think you can tick the "get further forward" option?

Thanks for all the feedback

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11 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Thanks for the response.

I'm thinking given the responses I'm getting, this might end up being a failed experiment.

A few ideas have come to mind:

 

  • If you have a defensive midfielder who has the qualities you would look for in a libero, do you think that retraining him as a centre back and then teaching him the trait of "bring ball out of defence" could achieve this objective of having a deep, deep lying playmaker?

 

  • If opting not to use a libero and reverting to a "normal" centre back pairing, should the wing backs go back into the LB/RB strata and the formation become more of a 4-1-4-1 type formation?

 

  • Would just a "normal" Defensive Midfielder on support with the PI's to attempt more risky passes and get further forward be the best idea? (I don't think deep lying playmaker is suitable because I don't think you can tick the "get further forward" option?

Thanks for all the feedback

I suspect the problem with the libero might be in the hard-coding of the role. It just doesn't seem that useful, which I guess is reflected in the fact that very, very few teams use one IRL. So retraining a DM to a libero is probably not a great idea. A DM with "gets further forward" is probably a good compromise, I think. I pulled my wingbacks back to be proper fullbacks when I switched formation. Leaving them as WB would leave you too open on the flanks, I think.

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A Libero CAN work, just not the way it used to in the golden age of the position. If you envision a Lothar Matthaus kind of player, who'll be your main playmaker, you're in for a disappointment. I've been experimenting with libero systems a bit and this is what I've found:

- only useful in possession-oriented tactics, that build methodically from the back

- you'll need to kind of clear his way, so no DM's or defend duty CM's, CM's preferably stay wider

- no playmakers in front of him

- wingbacks who bomb forward are essential, as they'll be the main target of the libero's killer balls

- play out of defence (duh)

- player traits are of utmost importance, most people will say "brings ball out of defence" is the most important, I prefer "tries long range passes" "switch ball to opposite flank" and "gets into opposition area"

- of all the players I tried, Saúl got the closest to my expectations, I'll say he's the ideal libero in this game. basically you need someone with dribbling, passing, vision, first touch, technique, decisions, off the ball, anticipation, some adequate defensive skills & the aforementioned traits

- if you want a Matthaus or Beckenbauer, use a regista. what the libero will do on FM is get to the opposition half, but not further up, and if you set things up right, will deliver nice balls to the wingbacks

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2 hours ago, Mike J said:

I tried in my first season at Boro. The results were...not good. I never saw the libero get far enough forward to make an impact in the final third and more often than not he was just out of position defensively most of the time. I reverted to a BPD instead and that seemed to be much better. In my second season I changed from a back 3 to a back 4 with a DM, who does a better job of doing the libero role than my defenders would.

It's not what a defender is supposed to do. Not even a DM. It would need to be highly technical (Mihajovic, but they are rarities), and generally defenders are not. Why you would want it to set up the action? That's what playmakers are for. Eventually you can set up a DM DLP, still it will not be much effective defensively (tackling, recovering the ball, etc.) while will still be efficient by covering some space left behind by midfielders. Also I see that it plays a lot horizontally, rarely it pass to forwards, so no Pirlo here. I do play with it but think Sigames should tweak it, a bit inefficient in my opinion. Probably an HB can be a better option for you.

You can eventually do a Bonucci (defender with good penetrative passes) by choosing one ore more BPD, but they don't look very smart (it depends also on forwards movements). I use them, anyway.

Edited by Tetsuro P12

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6 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

A Libero CAN work, just not the way it used to in the golden age of the position. If you envision a Lothar Matthaus kind of player, who'll be your main playmaker, you're in for a disappointment. I've been experimenting with libero systems a bit and this is what I've found:

- only useful in possession-oriented tactics, that build methodically from the back

- you'll need to kind of clear his way, so no DM's or defend duty CM's, CM's preferably stay wider

- no playmakers in front of him

- wingbacks who bomb forward are essential, as they'll be the main target of the libero's killer balls

- play out of defence (duh)

- player traits are of utmost importance, most people will say "brings ball out of defence" is the most important, I prefer "tries long range passes" "switch ball to opposite flank" and "gets into opposition area"

- of all the players I tried, Saúl got the closest to my expectations, I'll say he's the ideal libero in this game. basically you need someone with dribbling, passing, vision, first touch, technique, decisions, off the ball, anticipation, some adequate defensive skills & the aforementioned traits

- if you want a Matthaus or Beckenbauer, use a regista. what the libero will do on FM is get to the opposition half, but not further up, and if you set things up right, will deliver nice balls to the wingbacks

Hi thanks for the feedback.

Based on what youve said my tactic is getting quite close to your recommendation i think. I do utilise two very aggressive wing backs who will readily push on (using Mendy on support as his PPMs see him surge forward readily).

 

Im certainly looking for a very methodical approach but as your post suggests and my original query supposed, would the use of 2 midfield mezzalas sit wide and let the libero make a midfield 3 do you think?

 

Im currently using gundogan just as a straight forward CM to sit a little deeper and allow Bernardo Silva the space to cut inside.

 

Against weaker teams where i need creativity i have used a central 2 of De Bruyne and David Silva as twin mezzalas with David Silva left and De Bruyne right.

 

Twin mezzalas may aid a high press, defend from the front approach?

 

Thank you

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21 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Hi thanks for the feedback.

Based on what youve said my tactic is getting quite close to your recommendation i think. I do utilise two very aggressive wing backs who will readily push on (using Mendy on support as his PPMs see him surge forward readily).

 

Im certainly looking for a very methodical approach but as your post suggests and my original query supposed, would the use of 2 midfield mezzalas sit wide and let the libero make a midfield 3 do you think?

 

Im currently using gundogan just as a straight forward CM to sit a little deeper and allow Bernardo Silva the space to cut inside.

 

Against weaker teams where i need creativity i have used a central 2 of De Bruyne and David Silva as twin mezzalas with David Silva left and De Bruyne right.

 

Twin mezzalas may aid a high press, defend from the front approach?

 

Thank you

I've never tried the twin mezzalas thing, because these systems already have aggressive wingbacks, so I suspect it would make your team defensively vulnerable to say the least. However, a team like City might just be able to pull it off, probably against weaker sides anyway. I'm intereseted how it works out for you. I mainly use a carrilero and a CM(s).

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I'm using a libero since last FM19 (beta) and it works fine !

Even lower league. Tried to make a 'control/defensive version ' but that failed.

4145080324ea3a9b2df78bf00a0023f7.png

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On 31 May 2018 at 14:11, macca7292 said:

I've had a go at this too. I was attracted to it as I tend not to use that many TIs or PIs as a rule anyway.

Just to give you a bit of background, I normally play two types of save on FM. I start off as Leeds and try to return them to their rightful place at the pinnacle of world football then I play a lower league long term save. On FM16 I too Almancilense of the Portuguese Championship to the Champions League!

This time around, I got bored with my Leeds save after 6 straight league titles and started my long term save. I couldn't decide where to start so I decided to start unemployed as I'd never done that before and see what happened. My aim is to try to get to a big club as fast as possible.

Elgin City in the Scottish Second Division took a punt on me and after a couple of promotions, I ditched them and moved to Partick Thistle, then Rangers where I am now.

I changed to my current tactic for the Partick game on the 16th December and the improvement has been good - wish I'd used it all year!

Results.thumb.png.a585bb7aceeb6d49ced43eff5bab1588.png

I'm close to the end of my second season and this is how the table looks. We're predicted to finish 4th.

Table.thumb.png.cb16db64925ad84f2465664e4ec2a2ea.png

 

On 31 May 2018 at 14:11, macca7292 said:

I started off the save with a modified version of Cleon's 532 that he used with Sheffield FC, then changed to a 352 with a regista and then changed again to try to incorporate a libero. I often try to make a libero tactic work but usually only when I've got a really strong squad with world class players, so this is a bit of a departure. This is the tactic :

Tactics.thumb.png.e37e6d247b1212018bf6f6697c54ba7f.png

I've only used PIs on the keeper :

PI.thumb.png.2cb0e0cae6c404b804cab84e0cac4f4f.png

Nothing Earth shattering with the PIs - he's set to distribute the ball to the libero and the other two are to encourage us to play out from the back.

The libero is working reasonably well. I'm not seeing him miles forward but hopefully when he's learnt some PPMs that will change. What I see often that I do like is the libero getting the ball mid way in the opposition half and pinging it first time to one of the wing backs who then crosses into the advanced forward.

This is the player I'm using and I can anticipate Cleon looking at his attributes and saying that the dribbling is too low! I agree but he's only young and I'm training him on that so hopefully he'll improve.

Libero.thumb.png.8756fb71a9b4dad6be31a92c30c36cde.png

I'm pleased with the tactic as a whole and we're scoring a lot of goals. My advanced forward is leading the league in goals (and I don't even think he's that good), my left wing back is leading the league in distance run and my right wing back is joint top with assists.

505663387_Teamstats.thumb.png.2ff1ebd417de0eb5dcfc4a7410877082.png

Looking towards next season, I reckon I need better defenders and I'll be on the look out for anyone who is better suited as the libero.

I posted this a while back as part of Herne's ti and pi challenge for fm18.

Still works - I got Niort promoted to league one in France first season using this with libero in cd position

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18 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

Hello Everyone.

Wanted to get some thoughts on the use of a libero in a tactic. The Libero is a role that ive only ever used once, and I really want to experiment with the game and use some of the more uncommon roles to build tactics.

Ive got a couple of saves on the go at the moment but im enjoying Man City.

I turned 1st transfer window off, i want to manage the team Pep is managing this season and that means a quite dodgy back line as Man City. Were a couple of points off Liverpool in top spot, so no big deal, and going well in the Carabao Cup and Champions League.

 

But i want to use the Libero position in the hope that:

  • It can give some defensive cover to a weak centre back partnership
  • Id like him to camp around the half way line IN possession and become an extra creative player to break down packed defences from a deeper position

Overall ambition of the tactic is to:

  • Play through the lines with short sharp passing, using the libero to start attacks from the back and always being available for a pass from the wing backs or centre backs
  • Walk the ball into the net with neat build up
  • Lots of positional rotation (something i thought was very interesting from the club DNA thread on Ajax)
  • Defend from the front with an energetic split press and counter pressing in transition (front 4 are set to press more urgently as PI's)

 

Ive gone for the following tactic so far, just looking for advice on how to improve this:

1759135222_ScreenShot2019-12-08at23_01_15.thumb.png.3533ad62879987777fadd1e3805d3027.png

What im thinking with this tactic is that:

  • Maybe it might be a good thing to use a twin mezzala partnership in midfield? As both mezzala's will go wide enough that the libero can create a central midfield 3, whilst the two wide attacking players will come and sit more central, combined with Aguero's PPM to drop deep

 

  • I swap the libero position with Fernandinho and Rodri. Rodri is better than Fernandinho in terms of his positioning, game reading and concentration, but Fernandino is better on the ball in terms of his passing, his vision and technique. Tackling is roughly the same. So, would you opt for the better "passer and technician" as the libero, or the more defensively minded "steady player" as the libero?

 

  • Are there any obvious weaknesses that will eventually make this tactic fail/is it just a bad approach to be using?

 

Thanks everyone

 

 

I know City well. I love some elements of Guardiola’s play. I try to play a save at least once. If you want to stick to wing-backs you can try BBM-CAR partnership in the middle with regard to roles. I think these roles would better protect the area in front of the defence. Libero is a playmaker so removing AP ahead of him will make him the focal point of attacking plays by through-balls to wing-backs in the final third and this could stretch the defences better with cutbacks to AP and BBM.  So IFS, or a IWS, a better option. For the libero, I would use Stones or Laporte.

Proposed changes:

Standard tempo(to destabilise stubborn defences better)

Work Ball into Box(to encourage cutbacks and decrease long-shots)

No counter-press only split press by BBM, IFA IFS DLFA(you don’t want to use a defend-duty role in the middle as far as I see.)

Higher DL, Get Stuck In, Standard LOE with tight marking assigned to the midfielders, forwards and striker ( for an efficient middle-press to increase the space for DLFA and IFA to work with because most of the teams could stay deeper because you manage a top team)

 

 

 

Edited by frukox

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You need correct player for this this role and seeing that your guy is not still not pushing more ahead there is still no workd done wih Libero. Will try myself when next year probably but afraid will get the same result as he wont go foward enough.

Give it a good read. @Cleon has written good piece about it. It is a bit old but still I am afraid the same issues are there or maybe it is now working as needed. Look at the games/heat maps, see how high up he is going?

 

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1 hour ago, frukox said:

I know City well. I love some elements of Guardiola’s play. I try to play a save at least once. If you want to stick to wing-backs you can try BBM-CAR partnership in the middle with regard to roles. I think these roles would better protect the area in front of the defence. Libero is a playmaker so removing AP ahead of him will make him the focal point of attacking plays by through-balls to wing-backs in the final third and this could stretch the defences better with cutbacks to AP and BBM.  So IFS, or a IWS, a better option. For the libero, I would use Stones or Laporte.

Proposed changes:

Standard tempo(to destabilise stubborn defences better)

Work Ball into Box(to encourage cutbacks and decrease long-shots)

No counter-press only split press by BBM, IFA IFS DLFA(you don’t want to use a defend-duty role in the middle as far as I see.)

Higher DL, Get Stuck In, Standard LOE with tight marking assigned to the midfielders, forwards and striker ( for an efficient middle-press to increase the space for DLFA and IFA to work with because most of the teams could stay deeper because you manage a top team)

 

 

 

Perhaps move mahrez into the AM/R spot as an inverted winger, and drop Bernardo back into midfield as a standard midfielder to take advantage of his high work rate defensively and excellent creative vision?

Love the feedback, thanks for the input

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5 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Perhaps move mahrez into the AM/R spot as an inverted winger, and drop Bernardo back into midfield as a standard midfielder to take advantage of his high work rate defensively and excellent creative vision?

Love the feedback, thanks for the input

Good idea, I don’t use Bernardo in the wings. He’s an engine with great attacking capabilities, better to be used as BBM in this set-up but remove RFP from Mahrez if you have any. I found he is not hardworking enough.

Edited by frukox

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@saihtam@frukox @Enzo_Francescoli

@macca72 @OlivierL @Angus Osborne

I think the feedback so far on this thread has been fantastic.

To give an update, im not sure whether the back 3 Libero is a success or not. Purely on a results basis, we are doing just fine. But i still dont think the Libero is behaving as intended within the tactic.

Results look like this across all competitions. Im pretty happy with this at this stage given weve had quite a few injuries and we cant rotate the defense at all:

1681805156_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_10_33.thumb.png.7e4eb7e7e2b463358e7b91bd49ad0c6b.png

given the opinions of @frukox i have made some slight tweaks to the tactic. Nothing major, but I think the impact has been positive:

1095125957_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_09_31.thumb.png.174d5a4011cd0c3f9be57c335680da6d.png

  • The removal of the Advanced Playmaker in the wide right position. We look more threatening with the additional dribbling power of Bernardo Silva or Mahrez in this role whilst it should ensure the libero remains the playmaking force
  • Twin mezzalas to split, to allow space to create a central midfield 3
  • The removal of the counter press which was leaving us defensively exposed, in favour of using a split press with the front 5
  • The second mezzala CAN become a box to box midfielder if necessary. Twin mezzala combination used mostly against a weaker opponent we need to break down. Bernardo Silva and Gundogan have great work rate to work as Box to Box mids

If you compare Rodri to Fernandinho in terms of performances:

659427110_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_17_49.thumb.png.08d5f5c9ba60fe679dcb0814e217163f.png1713755719_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_18_15.thumb.png.87667ecae0708d91f2304fa6ce42740e.png

Rodri seems to be outperforming Fernandinho purely on a stats basis.

Fernandinho is winning more defensive headers, but whilst the two players have very high and similar pass completion rates, Rodri is doing so whilst attempting (and pulling off) more key passes. I think this is great.

But if you look at their positions during matches, neither really form a midfield central 3, at BEST they could be described as deep lying playmakers:192439663_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_17_17.thumb.png.38b00c8a386851ae7372b24fb88d83e4.png

1931229899_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_17_07.thumb.png.2bfb7c78107ec5ca0d2965078cd95ca9.png

Here Fernandinho (squad number 25) is acting as a Libero against Atletico Madrid away. Out of possession, he is dropping into the back 3 as a centre back. But when possession is secured, WITH the ball he is only travelling into a defensive midfield position.

This could have been because Gundogan was being used in this game as a central midfielder.

However, to illustrate when using the split mezzala's vs weaker opponents:

537114142_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_14_08.thumb.png.5e8288573a1286c4dfd03174c6a6c066.png1703421189_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_11_59.thumb.png.d52b145a18f43ce2bc5ed3bdf4faceb2.png

185878760_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_15_32.thumb.png.deb42a872563b623b27dc20c3d84aa04.png

vs Leicester, Brighton and Newcastle, all 3 played with two mezzala's together, the Libero still did not join in with the 2 central midfielders.

 

Feelings are a bit mixed so far. Team is playing lovely football, but im not seeing the dynamism from the Libero position i was expecting.

 

Thanks Everyone

 

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 23.11.41.png

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 23.11.41.png

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 23.14.08.png

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 23.15.25.png

Edited by FMunderachiever

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4 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

@saihtam@frukox @Enzo_Francescoli

@macca72 @OlivierL @Angus Osborne

I think the feedback so far on this thread has been fantastic.

To give an update, im not sure whether the back 3 Libero is a success or not. Purely on a results basis, we are doing just fine. But i still dont think the Libero is behaving as intended within the tactic.

Results look like this across all competitions. Im pretty happy with this at this stage given weve had quite a few injuries and we cant rotate the defense at all:

1681805156_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_10_33.thumb.png.7e4eb7e7e2b463358e7b91bd49ad0c6b.png

given the opinions of @frukox i have made some slight tweaks to the tactic. Nothing major, but I think the impact has been positive:

1095125957_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_09_31.thumb.png.174d5a4011cd0c3f9be57c335680da6d.png

  • The removal of the Advanced Playmaker in the wide right position. We look more threatening with the additional dribbling power of Bernardo Silva or Mahrez in this role whilst it should ensure the libero remains the playmaking force
  • Twin mezzalas to split, to allow space to create a central midfield 3
  • The removal of the counter press which was leaving us defensively exposed, in favour of using a split press with the front 5
  • The second mezzala CAN become a box to box midfielder if necessary. Twin mezzala combination used mostly against a weaker opponent we need to break down. Bernardo Silva and Gundogan have great work rate to work as Box to Box mids

If you compare Rodri to Fernandinho in terms of performances:

659427110_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_17_49.thumb.png.08d5f5c9ba60fe679dcb0814e217163f.png1713755719_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_18_15.thumb.png.87667ecae0708d91f2304fa6ce42740e.png

Rodri seems to be outperforming Fernandinho purely on a stats basis.

Fernandinho is winning more defensive headers, but whilst the two players have very high and similar pass completion rates, Rodri is doing so whilst attempting (and pulling off) more key passes. I think this is great.

But if you look at their positions during matches, neither really form a midfield central 3, at BEST they could be described as deep lying playmakers:192439663_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_17_17.thumb.png.38b00c8a386851ae7372b24fb88d83e4.png

1931229899_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_17_07.thumb.png.2bfb7c78107ec5ca0d2965078cd95ca9.png

Here Fernandinho (squad number 25) is acting as a Libero against Atletico Madrid away. Out of possession, he is dropping into the back 3 as a centre back. But when possession is secured, WITH the ball he is only travelling into a defensive midfield position.

This could have been because Gundogan was being used in this game as a central midfielder.

However, to illustrate when using the split mezzala's vs weaker opponents:

537114142_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_14_08.thumb.png.5e8288573a1286c4dfd03174c6a6c066.png1703421189_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_11_59.thumb.png.d52b145a18f43ce2bc5ed3bdf4faceb2.png

185878760_ScreenShot2019-12-09at23_15_32.thumb.png.deb42a872563b623b27dc20c3d84aa04.png

vs Leicester, Brighton and Newcastle, all 3 played with two mezzala's together, the Libero still did not join in with the 2 central midfielders.

 

Feelings are a bit mixed so far. Team is playing lovely football, but im not seeing the dynamism from the Libero position i was expecting.

 

Thanks Everyone

 

 

 

 

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If you are happy with the end product I’m glad to hear that, mate:) By the way, get your liberos to learn the traits of run with ball in the center, switch to other flank, bring ball out of defence, arrive later in the box and find out his final pos on the pitch. I think these will get you close to what you want.

Edited by frukox

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Interesting thread here, I'm enjoying the discussion.

For many years on FM I've worked with different teams to achieve a Pep City inspired "free eights" 4-1-2-3 concept, so while I have not used a Libero much myself I find this exploration very pertinent to what I've worked with. I strive to create a similar shape and team function where in my case a DM plays the way you're trying to get your Libero to. (Minor detail -- actually I have my wings and fullbacks opposite what yours do, but that's a simple preference. My wings stay wide to stretch room for the CM's, and my IWBs replace where the CM's were in the deep half-space. Sometimes I'll do one flank like this and one like yours.)

 

1. From old small experiments with Libero in FM17 and what I'm reading here, I think that there are so many hardcoded aspects of their role that it is more important than anything to have PPMs. This may be the only way you can actually get past the hardcoded stuff. In this sense, I wonder how your tactic would work at a team with the perfect player with PPMs you'd want. Maybe Frenkie at Barca.

2. One subtle detail that might be good about the Libero as opposed to the DM (or sometimes even CM strata with hold position and defensive PIs), is that his placement in the defensive line might be forcing your CBs to stand a little wider than they otherwise would if your playmaker was in the DM position. If so, I would be happy with this. In either approach of ours, we are recreating Pep's 2-3-5 formation when in possession in the attacking third. It is vital for this concept that the CBs are spread enough so that they can have a clear passing angle to the widest player on their nearby wing. That may be either a fullback or winger, depending, but Pep always has someone essentially standing on the touchline to stretch the width and be open for this pass from the near side CB.

Occasionally when I use a DM, my CBs can be too close together when we have possession and are recycling and probing a set defense. If they are narrow and the wide man does not drop back sufficiently along his touchline, then a CB with the ball can view this pass as too risky and force a ball vertically forward to someone in the crowded midfield when it isn't available.

So... maybe silver lining that this makes your CBs wider in possession? Ha. I know Halfback has some coded stuff involving this, but it also can affect the fullbacks in ways that I don't necessarily want.

3. For crazy experiment's sake, I would try moving both of your CMs to the AM strata. They can be AM(s) or something neutral...

I wonder if this lack of anyone in CM would beckon the Libero to come up further. This is sort of just an idea to test the ME's interpretation of your tactic. Off chance that it works? I've run minor experiments like this with moving a side-by-side CM to side-by-side AM. It sometimes plays less aggressive than it sounds on paper, because they sort of recognize the space behind them and come back for it. I originally played with this as a way of getting my "free eight" CMs to sit on the back side of the opponents midfielders, between them and the center backs, so my central back 3 CB DM CB could pass through the line to them and we'd have 3v2 on the opponent CBs.

Worth a shot, I'd be curious what that did for you.

 

Good luck keep us posted.

 

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