new game, old striker problem

[ShuichiAkai]

Hey all!
I have the same problem I had in FM19, my striker can't score and always gets low rates! Can you help me?
 

[Experienced Defender]

If your only problem is a striker struggling to score (but the tactic otherwise works well), then I wouldn't be too bothered about that. 

If you have issues with the tactic as a whole, that's another story.

[Siven]

Your not the only one having lone striker problems. 

Cant get Firmino to do anything in a 4-1-2-2-1 (433), currently 1 goal, 1 assist in 15 games

Even though im unbeaten top of the league. Lone strikers just dont seem to move much or get much service.

[ShuichiAkai]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If your only problem is a striker struggling to score (but the tactic otherwise works well), then I wouldn't be too bothered about that. 

If you have issues with the tactic as a whole, that's another story.

It's not just about scoring, he always gets low rates, like I'm playing with 1 player less

 

2 hours ago, Siven said:

Your not the only one having lone striker problems. 

Cant get Firmino to do anything in a 4-1-2-2-1 (433), currently 1 goal, 1 assist in 15 games

Even though im unbeaten top of the league. Lone strikers just dont seem to move much or get much service.

yeah, seems that nothing changed from fm19

[frukox]

16 hours ago, ShuichiAkai said:

It's not just about scoring, he always gets low rates, like I'm playing with 1 player less

 

yeah, seems that nothing changed from fm19

I’m also interested in my striker to be the topscorer like you but I don’t have any problems like you mentioned because this game is about having the right players with the roles/duties accompanied by the right player/team instructions. Every manager has to think about how he/she’s going to create space for the striker and support him by using any means( direct/through balls, crosses, etc.). I strongly recommend reading Cleon’s articles. I learned a lot from him. 

Anyway, I would have a striker ready to get in the box in the first place. This would stretch the defence vertically if he has the right attributes and space to run. You need to create that space either by letting the other team come to you and hit them with pace and skill with a relatively high-tempo play or by having a physical player able to create his own space by dribbling, aerial presence or ideally having both. Then, I would have a player close to him holding up the ball for a deep runner. This would distract the defenders and ideally move them away from our striker(aka overloading) from our striker. While we are creating depth for the striker we also need to stretch the pitch horizontally to open up channels. We can do this by playing wide or having a player on both sides of the pitch bombing forward.(preferably a winger and a full-back i, for a greater range of variety.) Now what we need is a deep-lying player who has a greater range of passing range, preferably with the ppm “switches ball to other flank”. This kind of a player is the key for this kind of a system because after creating the overload we have to destabilize opposition defence further by switching play from one flank to the other. This is crucial especially if we are planning to control the game.

The crucial attributes of a good striker for me:

Acceleration(for getting into a small pocket of space before defenders)

Balance(for hitting the ball well and withstanding opposition defenders’ physical presence)

Work-rate(for putting in consistent effort to get into dangerous positions)

Off The Ball(for getting into dangerous positions closer to goal unmarked)

Determination(for doing his best on the pitch. This is more important when being a goal down)

Decisions(for making the best decision where to hit the ball to defeat the goalkeeper)

Composure(for hitting the ball in the intended manner under great pressure( penalties, one-on-ones or defenders’ closing him down)

Anticipation(for reading opposition moves before defenders by reacting first)

Technique(for hitting the ball well and using different ways to defeat the keeper( lobbing a keeper, curling the ball, etc.)

First touch(for a smooth ball control and reducing chances of getting tackled before a good scoring opportunity)

Finishing(for hitting the ball accurately towards the goal) 

and/or 

Heading(for heading the ball well)

 

 

 

 

[ryandormer]

I can't get anybody on my team scoring from good chances, but the strikers are particularly appalling. I'm getting good chances, but none of my players tend to finish them. One-on-ones are still completely broken, despite the latest patch suggesting it was supposed to sort it. And I seem to have a disproportionate number of shots fired straight over the crossbar. It seems like this version of FM penalises you for trying to create chances, and the best way of scoring is by taking pot shots outside the box or long range free kicks. I'm playing as Arsenal (again) and both Aubameyang and Lacazette are atrocious. This isn't just a problem with the current save--this is now the fourth or fifth time I have tried to start a save with Arsenal, and it's been a problem every single time. I really hope this gets fixed.

[crusadertsar]

Creating overloads is key. Haaland scored 30 goals so far for me and it's not even the end of the season. I think your problem is a tactical one and not a problem with the game. It was the same with FM19. It was ridiculously easy to score, if you knew what you were doing.

On 04/12/2019 at 17:08, ShuichiAkai said:

It's not just about scoring, he always gets low rates, like I'm playing with 1 player less

 

yeah, seems that nothing changed from fm19

 

[ryandormer]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Creating overloads is key. Haaland scored 30 goals so far for me and it's not even the end of the season. I think your problem is a tactical one and not a problem with the game. It was the same with FM19. It was ridiculously easy to score, if you knew what you were doing.

How are you creating overloads in your system? I'm trying (and failing) to get Arsenal working with 433. Lacazette is DLFs, Aubameyang is IFa on the left. They are both appalling. In each of the four/five saves I've tried, neither of them have exceeded five or six goals each. Their average ratings have been terrible. Scoring goals has been near impossible, despite actually creating a lot of chances.

[rockpie]

23 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

Lacazette is DLFs, Aubameyang is IFa on the left.

What's your current setup mate? Formation, roles, TIs, and PIs.

[ryandormer]

1 minute ago, rockpie said:

What's your current setup mate? Formation, roles, TIs, and PIs.

It was this:

I thought I should stick with only a small handful of instructions to start with. Ignore the personnel, by the way, I've had to start another save (yet again) so this is who I have fit in pre-season.

I tried a 4-2-3-1 based on your approach in the other threat, but couldn't get that working either!

[rockpie]

On 04/12/2019 at 20:59, ShuichiAkai said:

Hey all!
I have the same problem I had in FM19, my striker can't score and always gets low rates! Can you help me?
 

First off, Advanced Forward is not the best role to use in your tactical approach.

All of your team instructions are aimed at compressing the opposition in their own half with Higher Defensive Line, Higher Line Of Engagement, More Urgent Pressing and Counter Press.

The Advanced Forward role does best when there is space behind the opposition defense for him to run into, breaking the offside trap, etc. So by compressing the space like this, you're taking away the biggest strength of that role.

[crusadertsar]

58 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

How are you creating overloads in your system? I'm trying (and failing) to get Arsenal working with 433. Lacazette is DLFs, Aubameyang is IFa on the left. They are both appalling. In each of the four/five saves I've tried, neither of them have exceeded five or six goals each. Their average ratings have been terrible. Scoring goals has been near impossible, despite actually creating a lot of chances.

I wrote about my overload system here.

Basically I use a complete wingback (Jose gaya), inverted winger (martial), mezzala (Pogba) to create overload on one side. Mata is an enganche in the middle to help hold up ball and switch sides. Rashford is an attacking winger on the other side who usually gets 1v1 and either scores or passes/crosses to Haaland. Haaland has 30 goals and Rashford 15. Mata with 14 assists so far. We are actually 2nd in League goals.

And I use Haaland as either a pressing forward or Complete forward because he is basically a beast that can do everything, dribble, hold up ball and jump.

Edited December 6, 2019 by crusadertsar

[ryandormer]

Thanks for that, I'll have a read. Assuming I keep this job to the January window, I was thinking of trying to sign Haaland, but was put off a bit by his dribbling, first touch and technique (all between 9 and 11). How do you find his link-up play, or is he just there to smash goals in?

[crusadertsar]

5 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

Thanks for that, I'll have a read. Assuming I keep this job to the January window, I was thinking of trying to sign Haaland, but was put off a bit by his dribbling, first touch and technique (all between 9 and 11). How do you find his link-up play, or is he just there to smash goals in?

He makes up for it with his physicality. He is so strong he will just break through the defenders. He is like a better Lukaku for me. Will probably develop stronger and with better finishing and off the ball movement.

[ShuichiAkai]

I've made some changes but without results   the striker still doesn't play but I'm not satisfied of offensive play at all, too less shots on target, could you help me please?

[ryandormer]

New save (sacked again), and here is my latest result, in my third game:

West Ham beat us 1-0. Felipe Anderson picked up the ball in his own half, dribbled past four of my players, and then scored with his weaker foot. Meanwhile, Lacazette missed three one-on-one opportunities in the box, and missed a fourth good chance.

Even if you can get around this issue, as above, by creating overloads and scoring other kinds of goals, I can't help but think this game is completely broken in terms of one-on-one chances. Yes, in reality there will be some occasions where your star striker misses a golden opportunity. But not multiple times in every single game. It makes no sense. I really hope this gets fixed.

[Experienced Defender]

20 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

 

20 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

've made some changes but without results   the striker still doesn't play but I'm not satisfied of offensive play at all, too less shots on target, could you help me please?

You need to keep it simple, because when it comes to tactics - less is (sometimes/usually/often) actually more.

Remove:

- pass into space

- whipped crosses (leave them on default, i.e. mixed)

- overlap left

- overlap right

- higher tempo (leave it on default, i.e. standard)

- fairly narrow width (leave it on default)

- more urgent pressing (leave it on default)

- get stuck in (leave it on default)

- higher LOE (drop it to standard)

Add:

- be more expressive

- split block/press (tell your front 4 players to close down more via their PIs)

Regarding roles and duties:

- change the striker into PF on attack duty or poacher

- change the AML (Bernardeschi) from IW on support into a winger on attack

- change the LB (Alex Sandro) from WB on attack into IWB on support

- change the GK (Szczesny)into SK on support

Play and report back if there is an improvement or not.

[Experienced Defender]

And you can also experiment with Work ball into box as an optional/occasional TI. Play both with and without it and see what works better for your team in different situations.

[ShuichiAkai]

thanks, I'll try and I'll report back

[ShuichiAkai]

I've tried and I guess I'll unistall the game, I'm really tired, thanks anyway for the help

[Experienced Defender]

46 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

I've tried and I guess I'll unistall the game, I'm really tired, thanks anyway for the help

Before you do that, can you post a screenshot of the new tactic? 

[ShuichiAkai]

8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Before you do that, can you post a screenshot of the new tactic? 

I did what you told to me, I've tried switching back dlp to m position too, I got some lucky wins in matches where I had the same chanches of my opponent and I lost some matches, like vs Ajax and Inter Maybe the striker plays slightly better in this way but I'm not in control of the match anymore

[Svenc]

Sounds pretty realistic. Ronaldo's IRL is still averaging his 6ish-7ish shots for Juve this term but looks like he's trying to "better" his 2017 records -- and so if at all scores mostly from the Penalty too, so... More serious: IIRC Forward movement is still some under review, however, that tactics to me also Looks like it's killing the central space the advanced creative type is supposed to thrive in and Play balls to CR7. The 4-2-3-1 is a Formation which visibly already pushes all the front four Players Deep into enemy territory by Default. If the CMs would join in the fun on the Occasion, that central space is dead.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Svenc

[frukox]

56 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Sounds pretty realistic. Ronaldo's IRL is still averaging his 6ish-7ish shots for Juve this term but looks like he's trying to "better" his 2017 records -- and so if at all scores mostly from the Penalty too, so... More serious: IIRC Forward movement is still some under review, however, that tactics to me also Looks like it's killing the central space the advanced creative type is supposed to thrive in and Play balls to CR7. The 4-2-3-1 is a Formation which visibly already pushes all the front four Players Deep into enemy territory by Default. If the CMs would join in the fun on the Occasion, that central space is dead.

This is what I hate if I want my striker to be the top goalscorer of the team. Killing the precious space by pushing up with more players in the final third is definitely a no-no and the situation become even worse with a low tempo. As I said the secret lies in the type of the player you have. If you have a towering striker, just send accurate floating crosses in the area and a couple of players in case of a rebound. On the other hand, if you have a fast player you would want to stretch the pitch vertically and horizontally to open up channels. In addition, you need players who are going to distract the opposition midfielders moving them from one side to the other by a quick switch of play. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by frukox

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, ShuichiAkai said:

I did what you told to me, I've tried switching back dlp to m position too

What exactly do you mean by "switching back dlp to m position" ??? What is "m position"? Btw, I didn't mention the DLP in my post. 

 

4 hours ago, ShuichiAkai said:

I got some lucky wins in matches where I had the same chanches of my opponent and I lost some matches, like vs Ajax and Inter Maybe the striker plays slightly better in this way but I'm not in control of the match anymore

The fact is that your tactic is not defensively sound. But given that you initially did not complain about defensive issues, I was primarily focused on what you could do to improve your attacking performance (assuming your players are good enough to handle those defensive weaknesses of your system). 

However, if I were to play a 4231 with your team, I would look to be a bit more conservative. Like this for example:

PFat

Wat           TQ/AMat?           IWsu

BBM     DLPsu

IWBde    CDBPDde    CDde    FBat

SKsu

Positive

- PoD, shorter pass, be more expressive, overlap left (and WBiB as an occasional option)

- distribute to CBs and FBs, counter (and counter-press, but not always)

- higher DL, standard/higher LOE, offside trap

Split block - the striker, AMR, AML and AMC - close down more (PI)

Then I would watch the match carefully to see if and what small tweaks could be needed.

[ShuichiAkai]

12 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

What exactly do you mean by "switching back dlp to m position" ??? What is "m position"? Btw, I didn't mention the DLP in my post. 

 

The fact is that your tactic is not defensively sound. But given that you initially did not complain about defensive issues, I was primarily focused on what you could do to improve your attacking performance (assuming your players are good enough to handle those defensive weaknesses of your system). 

However, if I were to play a 4231 with your team, I would look to be a bit more conservative. Like this for example:

PFat

Wat           TQ/AMat?           IWsu

BBM     DLPsu

IWBde    CDBPDde    CDde    FBat

SKsu

Positive

- PoD, shorter pass, be more expressive, overlap left (and WBiB as an occasional option)

- distribute to CBs and FBs, counter (and counter-press, but not always)

- higher DL, standard/higher LOE, offside trap

Split block - the striker, AMR, AML and AMC - close down more (PI)

Then I would watch the match carefully to see if and what small tweaks could be needed.

I switched him as DMCR to have more protection,  anyway I'll going to try these changes, thanks

[ShuichiAkai]

I've played some matches...Ronaldo scored just on free kick, offensive players aren't playing good and we suffered long passages behind the defense

Edited December 7, 2019 by ShuichiAkai

[Experienced Defender]

50 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

 

52 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

we suffered long passages behind the defense

Well, you actually did not implement all the tweaks I suggested. You are still using more urgent pressing and hard tackling (get stuck in), which is what makes you defensively vulnerable. 

 

[ShuichiAkai]

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Well, you actually did not implement all the tweaks I suggested. You are still using more urgent pressing and hard tackling (get stuck in), which is what makes you defensively vulnerable. 

 

I did it yesterday, maybe I've changed something after some matches, now I did it again

[Experienced Defender]

39 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

I did it yesterday, maybe I've changed something after some matches, now I did it again

Do you watch matches at least on Comprehensive highlights? And if you do, do you make small tweaks to the tactic based on what you observe?

[ShuichiAkai]

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Do you watch matches at least on Comprehensive highlights? And if you do, do you make small tweaks to the tactic based on what you observe?

yes comprehensive, sometimes I try to do small tweaks when things are not going well but I'm not really good in that, like in making tactics

[ShuichiAkai]

anyway I've played some other matches, too less goals scored and poor ratings for attackers. Defence some improved after last changes

[ShuichiAkai]

Hi! I've started a new game and made a new tactic from zero after reading some guides, things are going slightly better but the striker is still playing too bad, do you have any other suggestions?