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If you think the current fm20 match engine is great, post your tactics

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10 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

What's surprised me most in this thread is the amount of people using lone strikers on an attack duty with no AMC behind him.

A couple years ago basically every single person in the tactics forum would swear this was a bad idea, and theoretically plain wrong, but apparently it's pretty effective now and a common theme in most of these tactics.

To be honest I guess if you have a) the lone striker being mobile like a AF, rather than a static poacher or TM; and b) players that cut inside from the AML/AMR positions, and/or players from the MC position that run forward to support him... I can see why it's not a terrible idea even in theory. Even the tactics screen in-game doesn't show any red squares of bad linkup in the AMC area or anything like that. I still think a support striker should in theory do a little better though (provided there's something like 2 wingers running in behind, for example; or a runner from the wing and a runner from midfield, ex. a IF/A + CM/A).

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It'll be a completely different game to work out once the patch hits anyway.

Wide player decision making will be different, one on ones will be different, through balls will be different, number of set pieces, penalties etc. as well as countless other tweaks.

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7 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Nop. I switched from gengen press because I wasnt scoring goals. I use 4-2-3-1 Control possession and just scored in 10 consecutive matches. Still too many shots from wingers and overlapping full backs in stead of crosses, too many missed one -on-ones but I think thats an ME issue under review

How many is your striker scoring? 

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3 hours ago, CaptainPlanet said:

, number of set pieces, penalties etc. as well as countless other tweaks.

Was that about the set pieces confirmed somewhere? It's been going on for a while longer than FM20. I suspect because SI had never made a statistical distinction where their shots on average were coming from. Will be watching with interest. As argued a hundred times+ likely over this Forum and elsewhere: Every time I see a match where one Team had a dozen shots on target+ with minimal return, I would love being able to place a bet on what the root cause was (or rather, what the majority of those shots look like). :D 

Edited by Svenc

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1434256846_Screenshot2019-11-30at20_06_53.thumb.png.fba64853956bab2333fccdea2159f9c6.png

Newcastle don't have the players to play a convincing gegenpress without being hit on the break constantly so thanks to Experienced Defender's thread on defending I settled on this which has worked wonders for me so far defensively and 8th best defensive record in the league. Still a fair number of one-on-ones though.

Had a ton of issues with wingers and full backs firing into the side netting and after looking at my team and not seeing much from crossing in the wide areas decided to swap my wingers after Almiron came back from injury. I think it worked...

1301131176_Screenshot2019-11-30at20_07_39.thumb.png.56e342b65f0fc82fb07660c03c12bfe8.png

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On 29/11/2019 at 16:35, Dagenham_Dave said:

100% this. 

Impatient people who have depended on super tactics for years call it 'unplayable' though. 

It's not my tactics making my strikers fire the ball 20 yards off the net in a 1-on-1 situation. They're also not creating the 'invisible wall' in the net that the ball keeps bouncing off of. I also don't remember instructing my fullbacks/wide players to run all the way to the goal line to fire the ball into the side of the net.

Edited by cwc1

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On 29/11/2019 at 22:03, noikeee said:

I've noticed issues, things I wanted to recreate on the pitch that didn't work for me, I had a few theories why that happened, and am trying to learn better if those theories are true (or not), in which conditions do those things happen, what can be done to avoid it, and how can I become better at this FM.

By contrast the only thing you appear to be doing is angrily and snarkily telling off people.

I think he's trying to get a job at SI by emulating their style of dealing with other people.

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3 hours ago, cwc1 said:

I think he's trying to get a job at SI by emulating their style of dealing with other people.

And now you want to start making snarky comments at SI's expense?

A general comment for everyone - if you have an issue with someone, report it to the Moderating team.  Making comments about others, followed by endless reply and counter reply rarely ends well, causes resentment, leads to arguments and results in the rest of us having to wade through the bickering to actually read the topic.  Others then think it's ok to join in and pass their own silly comments (see above), and before we know where we are bans are being handed out and the thread's gone to hell.

I've been giving out a lot of 24 hour bans lately because some can't resist the urge to have a little pop.  Don't make me give out any more.

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15 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

How many is your striker scoring? 

I swap between 2 strikers, one has 5 from 18, the other has 4 from 7. All my front 4 are scoring. I also play for corners and my centre back has 5 from 21

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15 minutes ago, hazzabish said:

Anyone who paid for the game should fully have the right to state their feelings.

You can state your feelings about the game.  But if you believe you have the right to be abusive towards SI staff or other members of the forum then you may want to re-read the forum rules.

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That comes off as a little passive aggressive itself. I haven't attacked anyone. Something I have noticed is that those who think the game is great seem to have more free reign to be snarky to others.

I actually did quite well on my Arsenal save and enjoyed it for a time, but for many reasons stated all over this forum, watching the highlights becomes a bit boring/frustrating after a while. I've left my game in the 4th season until there's an update.

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On 27/11/2019 at 17:57, noikeee said:

Another thing that is striking me from so many of these tactics is they have a lone poacher or lone advanced forward, and no real nearby support, other than pretty wide wingers/IFs (mostly also on attack!). On real-life footballing theory this is a bad idea that shouldn't work, but apparently it works on this FM.

That is because hoof balls over the top work far too well, it's why Man Utd do so well in game when they are poor IRL, they play with either Rashford or Martial as long strikers and just hoof the ball over the top to them, and centre backs play like Sunday league footballers. IRL neither of those players can play as long striker very well, but in game they have pace and just run in behind all the time from long hoof forwards because good centre backs are incapable of reacting to high balls and incapable of marking lone strikers like this. 

Also anyone who has pace, agility and dribbling is completely OP, they pick up the ball and run past 4-5 players, usually turning the first. So again those players work, that is all they do, but they can do this time and time again to be effective.

Watching Rashford score Maradonna esque goals just gets old.

Same problem happened in FM19, if any long first time clearance or long ball over the top, the defenders don't react to the ball until it's travelled a certain distance but the attackers react way easier.  Watch replays of the long hoofs in slow motions, the attackers are running in behind, whilst your centre-backs are either not moving or are baffingly still moving forward, they don;t react until its too late, its like they have a different zone of reaction to the ball.

Keepers are similar, still don't react to certain things and still do some absurdly dumb things.

I hoped this years engine would be better, but it really isn't. 

Edited by tajj7

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I'm looking through the current exploit/supertactics on FM Base, and there isn't a single one that I would remotely consider mildly sensible or barely realistic for possession-like football. It's all crap like 3 strikers all on attack role, wide 4-1-3-2 formation (DM-ML-MR-MC), attacking mentality plus more direct passing, two classic wingers + 1 lone striker, etc. Sometimes in some FMs when I struggle, I just give up making my own tactics and go download whatever's most similar to how I want to play, but looks like not even that's an option this year so far.

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8 minutes ago, noikeee said:

 Sometimes in some FMs when I struggle, I just give up making my own tactics and go download whatever's most similar to how I want to play, but looks like not even that's an option this year so far.

Please don't do it as it creates all Kinds of abnormities either way. :D  From magical AI comebacks, magical AI shot conversions at the worst possible moments to barely finding the net in a dozen attempts for your sides. Those tactics 98% are  full of holes, which the AI only defends by Chance some. 60 shots without scoring on the Occasion to be exepcted too, as the AI depending on how it Plays may have it ridiculously easy to get a foot into the open Play move to boot. :D It's not so much that they aren'T successful. But these tactics make the ME look worse than it is every year. If there is a glaring ME issue, illogical picks tend to highlight it in really comical ways…

If you download one, check for whether it's found a set piece exploit too at least. It's no coincidence that the Frustration thread on FMBase for FM 19 was practically dead. Guys got their Teams averaging a Corner Goal alone every match -- plus there was a Long throw exploit too. :D

 

Edited by Svenc

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1 minute ago, Svenc said:

Don't do it as it creates all Kinds of abnormities either way. :D  From magical AI comebacks, magical AI shot conversions at the worst possible moments to barely finding the net in a dozen attempts for your sides. Those tactics 99% are  full of holes, which the AI only defends by Chance some. 50 shots without scoring on the Occasion to be exepcted too, as the AI depending on how it Plays may havei t ridiculously easy to get a foot into the open Play move to boot. :D It's not so much that they aren'T successful. But these tactics make the ME look worse than it is every year. 

There's always that kind of stuff that really tries to break the ME, but often there's the odd tactic that hands out good clues as to what sensible combo of roles can be successful. There's been years when in desperate times I'd go there, take a mildly sensible 4-2-3-1, wide 4-3-3 or diamond, remove all the insane neverending stacks of PIs and TIs they give out (for some reason the people that create these tactics think every single button that exists MUST be pressed!), and then maybe change a couple of roles to my liking without changing the overall core concept. Basically I'd use the concept as a source of inspiration, safe in the knowledge that it can be made to work.

... not this year. Every single one of the tactics for download looks completely incoherent, even the ones they've tested and are a bit less efficient. :D When nobody's confident enough to provide a basic looking 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 (with IFs not strikers), diamond, based around creativity, movement and pulling defences out of space, I think something's messed up. It looks like it's all about crazy high pressing, balls over the top, wing play through attacking wingbacks, overloads on the wing, getting wingers/IFs to show up on crosses to the backpost or to shoot from the corners of the area. Yeah I'd rather go play something else than watch that kind of football, thanks.

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49 minutes ago, noikeee said:

When nobody's confident enough to provide a basic looking 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 (with IFs not strikers), diamond, based around creativity, movement and pulling defences out of space, I think something's messed up.

Just posted a 4-2-3-1 that works great here

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31 minutes ago, rockpie said:

Just posted a 4-2-3-1 that works great here

Looks alright, will give it a try. :thup:

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5 hours ago, rockpie said:

Just posted a 4-2-3-1 that works great here

Very very similar to the tactic I'm playing with my BK Hacken side 6 games left unbeaten and top of the league. 

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                        GK (D)

WBR (A) BPD (ST) BPD (D) WBL (S)

                  DLP (S) AP (S)

           AMRC (S) AP (S).         IFL (A)

                       PF (A)

Short passing, high tempo, Play from the back, more expressive, hit early crosses, high press, high defensive line.

You'll need a world class keeper because you can get caught on the break, but the left winger is a great outball, and the WBR overlapping the tucked in AMRC is a potent attacking threat.

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On 01/12/2019 at 17:37, noikeee said:

There's always that kind of stuff that really tries to break the ME, but often there's the odd tactic that hands out good clues as to what sensible combo of roles can be successful. There's been years when in desperate times I'd go there, take a mildly sensible 4-2-3-1, wide 4-3-3 or diamond, remove all the insane neverending stacks of PIs and TIs they give out (for some reason the people that create these tactics think every single button that exists MUST be pressed!), and then maybe change a couple of roles to my liking without changing the overall core concept. Basically I'd use the concept as a source of inspiration, safe in the knowledge that it can be made to work.

... not this year. Every single one of the tactics for download looks completely incoherent, even the ones they've tested and are a bit less efficient. :D When nobody's confident enough to provide a basic looking 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 (with IFs not strikers), diamond, based around creativity, movement and pulling defences out of space, I think something's messed up. It looks like it's all about crazy high pressing, balls over the top, wing play through attacking wingbacks, overloads on the wing, getting wingers/IFs to show up on crosses to the backpost or to shoot from the corners of the area. Yeah I'd rather go play something else than watch that kind of football, thanks.

How many teams in real life can play with creativity, movement and pull defences out of space? Not many. You can count them on your fingers.

If you want to play like that in game, first of all you need to have players for it. Secondly you them to gel and give them enough time to understand each others' movement. It's hard to do it in game because it's hard to do it in real life. It's actually very easy for SI to make this easy to achieve but then it won't be a simulation if every team can Guardiolize their way to success in the game.

How many teams in real life have tried to emulate Pep's Barca and have failed miserably in the last decade? Most of them. Not even Pep has been able to emulate his own Barca after he left them. In a way his Barca has been spoiling FMers and everyone still has that fantasy football in the back of their mind when fantasizing about "short pass through balls against packed defences". People need to get over it. It isn't going to happen easily either IRL or in game.

Let's also talk about International football. All major trophy winning teams are counter attacking teams except Spain 2008-12 (again the same Barca players). France, Portugal both built their success with counter attacking tactics. They play good football only against weaker teams in qualifiers. Brazil and Germany couldn't score to save their life with their sexy football.

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On 29/11/2019 at 07:06, pats said:

I have a genuine question to those who "can't get their players to pass forward because ME is broken" and "No through balls, ME is broken"- What efforts have you guys made in your tactics to create space in the center when the opposition doesn't want or isn't allowing you the space to play in the center?

Forward passes in the final 1/3 is a big issue. Strikers are not getting the supply they need to score goals. The AMC role just behind a lone striker is a pointless tactic as players very rarely play through balls they very often opt to pass the ball sideways. Looks at your pass map and it’s very noticeable, It’s not just one single tactic as I’ve watched plenty of ai games. Do you have success with playing through balls and forward passes in the 1/3 then?

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13 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Forward passes in the final 1/3 is a big issue. Strikers are not getting the supply they need to score goals. The AMC role just behind a lone striker is a pointless tactic as players very rarely play through balls they very often opt to pass the ball sideways. Looks at your pass map and it’s very noticeable, It’s not just one single tactic as I’ve watched plenty of ai games. Do you have success with playing through balls and forward passes in the 1/3 then?

That wasn't my question though, was it?

My question was what have you tried to create space? 

Edited by pats

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1 hour ago, Weller1980 said:

Forward passes in the final 1/3 is a big issue. Strikers are not getting the supply they need to score goals. The AMC role just behind a lone striker is a pointless tactic as players very rarely play through balls they very often opt to pass the ball sideways. Looks at your pass map and it’s very noticeable, It’s not just one single tactic as I’ve watched plenty of ai games. Do you have success with playing through balls and forward passes in the 1/3 then?

If your setup is right then you can get success there.

Ozil in my Arsenal save plays AP (s) in the AMC position, just behind Lacazette as a lone striker as a DLF (s).

He has the 3rd highest player rating in the team, a few goals and plenty of assists.

For that role to do well you need 3 things:

1) A player with great vision.

2) A player with great technical passing ability.

3) A tactic that gives your other attacking players room to run into.

An AMC is not going to be able to feed balls through into space if there is no space. If all you do is gegenpress and pin the opposition back in their own area, the AMC playmaker just becomes a ball recycling machine since his passing options become much more restricted.

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On 28/11/2019 at 15:47, Dagenham_Dave said:

So wingers will shoot towards goal if they have an attacking mentality and are running closer to the goal? Wow, would never have been able to predict this outcome. 

You've basically just admitted this issue is a tactical one. Well done. 

This fanboy mentality is not helping and just plain stupid. 

Current ME is worst I have seen in terms of representation of football for past 4 years. EVERYONE is shooting from non-nonsensical angles, there is not a single square pass for tap in to open net so it does not matter how well you set up your tactics IN REAL LIFE terms. Get a fast wing back on attack and he will average more shots on goal than striker. Central roles in AMC strata (enganche, AP/A and others) have stupidly low influence on game. One on one's and overall decision making does not make sense. It does not look like football at all.  In the end its incredibly boring to watch you team waste zillions one on ones or good positions to overall stupidity of ME. So although older ME's might have clear bugs and exploits, this one is unwatchable.   

Playing FM from 1999 but this one is total waste of time worth a refund. Even more so that tactical system is simply not enough in this day and age, there is almost zero tangible improvement that improves game play, majority of useless, archaic deadwood like interviews is still there and UX is becoming horribly convoluted mess.

It all feels like FM is game of the past. Even though SI are boasting about sales figures and game time, I don't believe that's because increasing quality of the game. And I am saying all that with huge regret, because I obviously like SI, would love to see them produce best game and do well. 

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1 minute ago, aliosha said:

This fanboy mentality is not helping and just plain stupid. 

Current ME is worst I have seen in terms of representation of football for past 4 years. EVERYONE is shooting from non-nonsensical angles, there is not a single square pass for tap in to open net so it does not matter how well you set up your tactics IN REAL LIFE terms. Get a fast wing back on attack and he will average more shots on goal than striker. Central roles in AMC strata (enganche, AP/A and others) have stupidly low influence on game. One on one's and overall decision making does not make sense. It does not look like football at all.  In the end its incredibly boring to watch you team waste zillions one on ones or good positions to overall stupidity of ME. So although older ME's might have clear bugs and exploits, this one is unwatchable.   

Playing FM from 1999 but this one is total waste of time worth a refund. Even more so that tactical system is simply not enough in this day and age, there is almost zero tangible improvement that improves game play, majority of useless, archaic deadwood like interviews is still there and UX is becoming horribly convoluted mess.

It all feels like FM is game of the past. Even though SI are boasting about sales figures and game time, I don't believe that's because increasing quality of the game. And I am saying all that with huge regret, because I obviously like SI, would love to see them produce best game and do well. 

Everyone? No, they don't. If they do then you really need to revise your tactics.
Square passes for tap ins happen quite often here.
My AF/P is always the top scorer in my team, with my wingers being the top assisters.
1v1s are fine in my experience. Some scored and some missed.

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2 minutes ago, aliosha said:

EVERYONE is shooting from non-nonsensical angles, there is not a single square pass for tap in to open net so it does not matter how well you set up your tactics

This is quite clearly nonsense and does no-one any favours. I see examples of this regularly. Both for and against. As do many others. 

Decision making in the final third is being looked at and worked on, but it's nowhere near as bad as people make out. But then that's par for the course on this forum. 

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1 minute ago, roykela said:

Everyone? No, they don't. If they do then you really need to revise your tactics.
Square passes for tap ins happen quite often here.
My AF/P is always the top scorer in my team, with my wingers being the top assisters.
1v1s are fine in my experience. Some scored and some missed.

Oh yes. Well, surely, after playing like 80 hours, it has to be my fault, because ME is flawless. Thank you, not interested.  

 

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1 minute ago, aliosha said:

Oh yes. Well, surely, after playing like 80 hours, it has to be my fault, because ME is flawless. Thank you, not interested.  

 

Grow up. 

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2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

This is quite clearly nonsense and does no-one any favours. I see examples of this regularly. Both for and against. As do many others. 

Decision making in the final third is being looked at and worked on, but it's nowhere near as bad as people make out. But then that's par for the course on this forum. 

Its not a non-sense. I reviewed 8 Football managers in past 20 years. Average around 500 hours each year, I have eyes, can see whats happening on the field and review my games in order to understand ME. I came here thinking I will meet some guys with at least partly similar RL experience and find out if there are solutions for this incredible mess of ME and some patches planned. Sadly, it seems I am at wrong place.   

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11 minutes ago, aliosha said:

Oh yes. Well, surely, after playing like 80 hours, it has to be my fault, because ME is flawless. Thank you, not interested.  

 

Who says it's flawless? 
I can certainly say it's not flawless after 379 hours.

It's not one or the other. That is an extremely flawed view.
What changes have you tried to make to minimise the actions of your players that you don't like them doing?
If, and when you have tried, have you given them time to learn what you want them to do?

Edited by roykela

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1 minute ago, aliosha said:

if there are solutions for this incredible mess of ME 

This is where your argument falls to pieces. The current engine is not 'flawless', not a single person on here has even hinted at that, but to call it 'an incredible mess of ME' is just plain wrong. If you're not willing to accept that your issues are at least partly down to yourself, then this is a game you'll never get the best out of. Maybe it's time you did something else in your spare time, and come back to FM when  you're in a better frame of mind. 

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Just now, roykela said:

Who says it's flawless? 
I can certainly say it's not flawless after 379 hours.

It's not one or the other. That is an extremely flawed view.
What changes have you tried to make to minimise the action of your players that you don't like them doing?
If, and when you have tried. Have you given them time to learn what you want them to do?

Obviously I have tried and waited, wont be posting without players getting familiar with tct setup and each other. These issues (decision making, teamwork, passing sideways, shooting from literally ZERO degree angles while there is several better options for clear goal, ineffective AMC's) still remain. Appreciate helpful tone, but really its not a first one for me. And its not first time I seen "shoot less often" not working as intended. :)           

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5 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

This is where your argument falls to pieces. The current engine is not 'flawless', not a single person on here has even hinted at that, but to call it 'an incredible mess of ME' is just plain wrong. If you're not willing to accept that your issues are at least partly down to yourself, then this is a game you'll never get the best out of. Maybe it's time you did something else in your spare time, and come back to FM when  you're in a better frame of mind. 

Well, thanks for advice. Let me offer you some as well - I see you like to write "things" and make argument out of everything. I am not arguing, much less with you, I am describing my experience. As it stands now my experience from game is extremely disappointing and to make matters worse, my experience from visiting SI forums is now not much better. So thank you and If you don't mind I will use my spare time to talk to some more interesting / helpful people.     

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3 minutes ago, aliosha said:

Obviously I have tried and waited, wont be posting without players getting familiar with tct setup and each other. These issues (decision making, teamwork, passing sideways, shooting from literally ZERO degree angles while there is several better options for clear goal, ineffective AMC's) still remain. Appreciate helpful tone, but really its not a first one for me. And its not first time I seen "shoot less often" not working as intended. :)           

Are you playing a tactic that results in a lot of shots for your team. Possibly a front heavy tactic that are pinning the defenders to their own 3rd?
If that is the case then a 'Shoot less often' might not work effectively, as there is no space to pass the ball. Which might lead the wingers/wingbacks/fullbacks to take a shot instead.
Wrongly so in quite a few cases, instead of trying to recycle the ball.
Having said that, they won't be recycling the ball forever. They will try to finish at some point.

If you do get a lot of shots, i would say....try to create less but better chances.
Try to draw the defenders out.

I have my preferred formation and instructions. But i have to tinker a bit with my instructions every game in order to get what i want, as the opposition is different from game to game.
In general it was a bit of trial and error for a while, until i saw something close to what i wanted. Then i played the waiting game. When my players got to know my tactic they started
overacheiving.
Now i have been promoted with a team i really should not be able to be promoted with, 2 years earlier than what my board envisioned.
That in itself might be a flaw with the game, but a very different one. Too easy to get players way above my team's reputation on non-contract deals.

There certainly are issues with 1v1s and tight angle shooting. SI have acknowledged that.
As i mentioned, i don't have those issues myself so i suspect it's down to certain tactical setups.

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Anyone managed to get their strikers scoring?

That's the main thing that's bugging me, so much so that I've been back on FM19 instead at times.

Edited by TheInvisibleMan

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I won the league and Champions League with Arsenal and Nketiah was my top scorer in the league with 14 in 35, so not really. I was easily the top scoring team, too.

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5 minutes ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

Anyone managed to get their strikers scoring?

That's the main thing that's bugging me, so much so that I've been back on FM19 instead at times.

Sure have.
This player has moved on though, but he's my highest scoring striker so far.

1868093497_Merknad2019-12-03115149.thumb.jpg.51a0568d01f88d0360ef86b6a908594b.jpg

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57 minutes ago, aliosha said:

fanboy

Be aware that using this term is against forum rules and I could give you an infraction for that.  But I know you're frustrated so I'll give a little leeway and just ask you to please mind what you say.

Now - at everyone else - if you can't post without winding others up, or take the **** out of someone, or make a personal comment at someone else, then don't post.  Have constructive discussion about the game but stop this other crap.  There will not be any more warnings.

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20 minutes ago, roykela said:

Are you playing a tactic that results in a lot of shots for your team. Possibly a front heavy tactic that are pinning the defenders to their own 3rd?
If that is the case then a 'Shoot less often' might not work effectively, as there is no space to pass the ball. Which might lead the wingers/wingbacks/fullbacks to take a shot instead.
Wrongly so in quite a few cases, instead of trying to recycle the ball.
Having said that, they won't be recycling the ball forever. They will try to finish at some point.

If you do get a lot of shots, i would say....try to create less but better chances.
Try to draw the defenders out.

I have my preferred formation and instructions. But i have to tinker a bit with my instructions every game in order to get what i want, as the opposition is different from game to game.
In general it was a bit of trial and error for a while, until i saw something close to what i wanted. Then i played the waiting game. When my players got to know my tactic they started
overacheiving.
Now i have been promoted with a team i really should not be able to be promoted with, 2 years earlier than what my board envisioned.
That in itself might be a flaw with the game, but a very different one. Too easy to get players way above my team's reputation on non-contract deals.

There certainly are issues with 1v1s and tight angle shooting. SI have acknowledged that.
As i mentioned, i don't have those issues myself so i suspect it's down to certain tactical setups.

Well, although I don't see now how this general advice can help me immediately, thanks a lot for the inspiration. Main problem is not necessarily in abundance of shots in it self but rather that they are all shooting while there are much better options available. This is not something new for sure, as it was in ME previously several times, but in this one, its just plain unwatchable and against basic principles of football - you try to create space and time, but its useless here. 

For instance in systems in which you create side overloads in order to free your player in centre/other side of the field. It never happens. They always run and shoot . You can have 3 unmarked players in front of goal, ball carrier with 20 teamwork, vision and technique, but he will shoot anyway. I know what quality of chances is - but here it seems that players have absolutely no idea about relative quality of position in front of goal.    

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1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

This is quite clearly nonsense and does no-one any favours. I see examples of this regularly. Both for and against. As do many others. 

Decision making in the final third is being looked at and worked on, but it's nowhere near as bad as people make out. But then that's par for the course on this forum. 

I've never stopped playing a version this early in my life, and I've played them all. The match engine is broken is vital areas right now.

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4 hours ago, pats said:

That wasn't my question though, was it?

My question was what have you tried to create space? 

Yea fair enough!!

So my attacking midfielders are setup to play direct, encourage risky passes, pass into space and play on the counter with a deep playing striker poised to take advantage of the space behind the defence.

I'm totally convinced through balls in the final 1/3 don't happen know where near enough, just look at the variety of goals scored, most goals come from set pieces, crosses or little sideways passes outside the area. 

 

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2 minutes ago, aliosha said:

Well, although I don't see now how this general advice can help me immediately, thanks a lot for the inspiration. Main problem is not necessarily in abundance of shots in it self but rather that they are all shooting while there are much better options available. This is not something new for sure, as it was in ME previously several times, but in this one, its just plain unwatchable and against basic principles of football - you try to create space and time, but its useless here. 

For instance in systems in which you create side overloads in order to free your player in centre/other side of the field. It never happens. They always run and shoot . You can have 3 unmarked players in front of goal, ball carrier with 20 teamwork, vision and technique, but he will shoot anyway. I know what quality of chances is - but here it seems that players have absolutely no idea about relative quality of position in front of goal.    


I understand what you mean. Sorry you're experiencing that.
If you have the time and patience. Try my tactics out. Perhaps not in your main save. Just to try it out. Give it some in-game time and see if you see the same thing happening or not.
It doesn't really happen for me. Of course it happens at times but not very often.
Don't forget that you need the right players for it as well. Keep the PPMs in mind, as well as your coaches' report cards. Especially the Cons. If the coach is right about the Cons then that can have a huge impact
on the players and eventually your tactics.

 

4-4-2 - roykela.fmf

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2 hours ago, rockpie said:

If your setup is right then you can get success there.

Ozil in my Arsenal save plays AP (s) in the AMC position, just behind Lacazette as a lone striker as a DLF (s).

He has the 3rd highest player rating in the team, a few goals and plenty of assists.

For that role to do well you need 3 things:

1) A player with great vision.

2) A player with great technical passing ability.

3) A tactic that gives your other attacking players room to run into.

An AMC is not going to be able to feed balls through into space if there is no space. If all you do is gegenpress and pin the opposition back in their own area, the AMC playmaker just becomes a ball recycling machine since his passing options become much more restricted.

Ive seen plenty of good oppurtunites where my AMC could play a ball into open space but instead they pass the ball sideways, below is a great example, perfect opportunity to play a through ball but instead the ball is played out wide. Look at the pass map and notice the lack of forward passes made in the final 1/3, it perfectly illustrates the problem here. Strikers are not getting enough supply from attacking midfielders therefore resulting in strikers perhaps not scoring enough.

image.thumb.png.0755bda730eacad77c21f885c5295dab.png

image.thumb.png.ed62379fa1073899909f05d11ae77876.png

Edited by Weller1980

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1 minute ago, roykela said:


I understand what you mean. Sorry you're experiencing that.
If you have the time and patience. Try my tactics out. Perhaps not in your main save. Just to try it out. Give it some in-game time and see if you see the same thing happening or not.
It doesn't really happen for me. Of course it happens at times but not very often.
Don't forget that you need the right players for it as well. Keep the PPMs in mind, as well as your coaches' report cards. Especially the Cons. If the coach is right about the Cons then that can have a huge impact
on the players and eventually your tactics.

 

4-4-2 - roykela.fmf 42.21 kB · 0 downloads

Will gladly check it out. Thanks a lot!   

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15 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

my attacking midfielders are setup to play direct, encourage risky passes, pass into space and play on the counter with a deep playing striker poised to take advantage of the space behind the defence.

 

9 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

below is a great example, perfect opportunity to play a through ball but instead the ball is played out wide. Look at the pass map and notice the lack of forward passes made in the final 1/3, it perfectly illustrates the problem here. Strikers are not getting enough supply from attacking midfielders therefore resulting in strikers perhaps not scoring enough.

image.thumb.png.0755bda730eacad77c21f885c5295dab.png

image.thumb.png.ed62379fa1073899909f05d11ae77876.png

Without seeing full screenshots of your tactic, team instructions and the player instructions set for those attacking roles...

My first instinct is that any kind of deep playing striker isn't the best for the kind of football you're describing. You would want more of an Advanced Forward who is constantly looking to make runs in behind and break the offside trap.

Although what you can see in that example is a great opportunity for a pass, the match engine might only attempt that pass if it registers an attempted run by the striker.

A deep lying forward might be more prone to simply stand and face the player in possession in order to receive a pass to feet, allowing a more patient build up as other players run past him.

Changing the role of your striker could unlock what you're looking for, assuming it fits in with the rest of your tactic.

Edited by rockpie

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10 minutes ago, aliosha said:

Will gladly check it out. Thanks a lot!   

No worries.
Give it a shout how it works out for you and your interpetration of the tactics/formation.
Curious to see what you get out of it :)

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14 minutes ago, rockpie said:

 

Without seeing full screenshots of your tactic, team instructions and the player instructions set for those attacking roles...

My first instinct is that any kind of deep playing striker isn't the best for the kind of football you're describing. You would want more of an Advanced Forward who is constantly looking to make runs in behind and break the offside trap.

Although what you can see in that example is a great opportunity for a pass, the match engine might only attempt that pass if it registers an attempted run by the striker.

A deep lying forward might be more prone to simply stand and face the player in possession in order to receive a pass to feet, allowing a more patient build up as other players run past him.

Changing the role of your striker could unlock what you're looking for, assuming it fits in with the rest of your tactic.

Yeah in theory you're right.  But in current ME final third decision making is a mess. No forward passing, no through balls to forwards all play is channeled down the wings. Central strikers making no movement. Weird and repetative goals..

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