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If you think the current fm20 match engine is great, post your tactics

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3 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Mentality, TIs, PI's, opposition, shape etc etc are all a factor. 

I just tested it and it seems like it is as simple as that...

They literally stopped doing it. All I changed in my tactic was full backs from CWB-S to FB-S

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5 minutes ago, Vicz said:

I just tested it and it seems like it is as simple as that...

They literally stopped doing it. All I changed in my tactic was full backs from CWB-S to FB-S

Just like that, eh? No perception bias whatsoever. 

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Just like that, eh? No perception bias whatsoever. 

I don’t know what to tell you.. 

will upload pkms of before and after if you like?

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1 minute ago, Vicz said:

I don’t know what to tell you.. 

will upload pkms of before and after if you like?

Tactical changes can alter any number of things. How many games have you run since changing it?

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Tactical changes can alter any number of things. How many games have you run since changing it?

4

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1 minute ago, Vicz said:

4

What you also have to remember is that a FB on support isn't going to get into those attacking positions anywhere near as much as a CWB will. 

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I have a genuine question to those who "can't get their players to pass forward because ME is broken" and "No through balls, ME is broken"- What efforts have you guys made in your tactics to create space in the center when the opposition doesn't want or isn't allowing you the space to play in the center?

Edited by pats

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6 minutes ago, pats said:

I have a genuine question to those who "can't get their players to pass forward because ME is broken" and "No through balls, ME is broken"- What efforts have you guys made in your tactics to create space in the center when the opposition doesn't want or isn't allowing you the space to play in the center?

Issues you mentioned have been acknowledged by testing team and are being worked on. But yes it seems some tactics suffer more than other. Also completely changing your tactical aproach to suit ME seems odd for a game like fm.

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For the first time ever I am bouncing my tactics around trying to adapt to my opponent, and so far it is working brilliantly. Managing Tottenham and 5 games in have won 4 (including a derby win against Arsenal) and my only draw was away against Man City.

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I feel like gegen press is a cheat tactic being so powerful so I have created a possession based tactic I'll upload later.

Im enjoying this ME as it's a challenge. Not due to flaws but because the opposition can actually defend! I found previous versions could be easy once you find that magic tactic go exploit ME flaws. 

 

 

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image.thumb.png.61a0b1444ba3b3c7622d8bb9174c8b66.png

Welcome to the madness that is Singapore. I ended up playing like this because we had no fullbacks at all when I first joined and its worked, so I kept it.

I'm not seeing my wingbacks or anyone hitting the side netting either.

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43 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

Im enjoying this ME as it's a challenge. Not due to flaws but because the opposition can actually defend! I found previous versions could be easy once you find that magic tactic go exploit ME flaws. 

 

 

100% this. 

Impatient people who have depended on super tactics for years call it 'unplayable' though. 

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2 hours ago, pats said:

I have a genuine question to those who "can't get their players to pass forward because ME is broken" and "No through balls, ME is broken"- What efforts have you guys made in your tactics to create space in the center when the opposition doesn't want or isn't allowing you the space to play in the center?

 

2 hours ago, Mitja said:

 Also completely changing your tactical aproach to suit ME seems odd for a game like fm.

That's not what he said though, is it? 

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1 hour ago, styluz05 said:

I feel like gegen press is a cheat tactic being so powerful so I have created a possession based tactic I'll upload later.

Im enjoying this ME as it's a challenge. Not due to flaws but because the opposition can actually defend! I found previous versions could be easy once you find that magic tactic go exploit ME flaws. 

 

 

Completely agree with the part in bold. I feel some of the frustration on here is due to people not able to get past the sensible defending.

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I just got hammered by Napoli with the same tactic I used to completely restrict Inter. But in the end Napoli got FMed by me. :D

They had 29 shots and 61% possession against my 5 shots and 39% possession. Result? I won 4-2.

Oh and my AMC was the best player on the pitch and was MoM. (Just in case people are wondering AMC position is "broken")

Screenshot:

image.thumb.png.4d1d621527f678deaff93c4e75de65a8.png

 

 

Edited by pats

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2 hours ago, Mitja said:

Issues you mentioned have been acknowledged by testing team and are being worked on. But yes it seems some tactics suffer more than other. Also completely changing your tactical aproach to suit ME seems odd for a game like fm.

Where did I say you have to completely change your tactical approach?

Just out of curiosity, what's the reason do you think Pep's City had less possession than Chelsea at home in the last match in real life? Why were they counter attacking time and time again rather than playing their usual controlled possession tactic? City had only 46% possession in that match. 

Edited by pats

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27 minutes ago, pats said:

I just got hammered by Napoli with the same tactic I used to completely restrict Inter. But in the end Napoli got FMed by me. :D

image.thumb.png.4d1d621527f678deaff93c4e75de65a8.png

 

EDIT: Oh and my AMC was the best player on the pitch and was MoM. (Just in case people are wondering AMC position is "broken")

I had a good save with Sampdoria on FM19. Never won anything, but an enjoyable 5 seasons there nonetheless before I moved to Wolves and won nothing there either :lol:

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The ‘one tactic against all’ approach, it would seem, is not so prevalent this year. Which is fantastic!

Wing play still needs looking at, at least with a few tactics/mentalities. The balance, so obviously needed, should not come at the expense of wingers/full backs just running into the near post and smashing the ball into the side netting unrealistically. If this, and the ME’s preference for nicking a goal from wide ifk’s (for me as well as my opponent) can be tweaked, then I really think this ME has the ability to be great. Too often in past FM’s the ME seemed easy to ‘break’ with just a couple of tactics being over dominant. You set up the tactic and just let it run. This year has opened up multiple means to beat your opponent though, and counter them ... and that should be applauded. Game management is a lot more important this year than I can ever remember. It’s all heading in the right direction.

It does still feel a little bit like having to outplay the ME rather than your opponent atm though, as others have suggested. Hopefully the next patch will address the common issues noticed.

And create a whole load of new ones ;)

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20 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Just the facts ma'am .

Humility from a Sunderland fan???? never, how them games in hand working out for you ? ha ha ha ha.

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6 hours ago, pats said:

I have a genuine question to those who "can't get their players to pass forward because ME is broken" and "No through balls, ME is broken"- What efforts have you guys made in your tactics to create space in the center when the opposition doesn't want or isn't allowing you the space to play in the center?

Stretching them horizontally with very wide wingers/forwards, having a striker drop deep in an attempt to pull away defenders so that central runners from the midfield can burst in. 

I do think your diamond's success is encouraging, but your excellent win against Napoli with a very involved AMC was again in a heavy underdogs situation. ;) I would be curious to see what happens when you're favourites. I also wonder if the fact you're playing in Italy is helping, the Italian league is notoriously negative in game, so I suspect few AI managers are trying to proactively attack you on your weakest point, which is cover down the wings. 

I have to admit this thread is giving me lots of interesting tactical ideas though, I've not tried a diamond yet for example (I'm starting to suspect a whole bunch of issues I've seen only happen in formations with AML and AMR) and I might just shamelessly copy your tactic to play around with it. :p

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What is particularly bizarre in this ME is how clinical some teams can be on the counter (AI or human in the above Napoli-Sampdoria match, for example) ; yet on other matches you could get or give away 7 one on ones on the counter and none go in. 

There seems to be some slight differences in the kind of counter attacking chances that makes a huge difference: some are ruthlessly finished regularly; yet other slightly different chances are squandered almost every time. I've yet to figure out what exactly that is and it's driving me nuts. That's one of the major quirk in this ME that really feels off. 

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59 minutes ago, noikeee said:

but your excellent win against Napoli with a very involved AMC was again in a heavy underdogs situation. ;) I would be curious to see what happens when you're favourites.

How many times are people going to post examples of something working properly only to be met with, 'Ah but, that only happens because of this other thing' :seagull:

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7 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

How many times are people going to post examples of something working properly only to be met with, 'Ah but, that only happens because of this other thing' :seagull:

Have you got nothing better to do?

Perhaps as many times as things happen because of other things?? Doesn’t everything happen because of something else?

I’m fully aware this is confrontational, however I feel the need to fight fire with fire here ...

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I play 3-4-3 with Newcastle.  Joelinton up top as PFa, St Maximin at LW as IWs and Almiron as IFa.  I start game with one of 3 mentalities: attacking, balanced and cautious (with appropriate TIs).  My wide guys, on the break, never pass back to the other onrushing players but will always go side net.  However, when my BTB gets into the box with the ball he'll drive to the byline then cut the ball back for an easy tap in.  It's a thing of beauty.  Of course if my wide players did that I'd be scoring 5-6 goals every game!  

 

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This is my first ever post on this forum. I have been reading avidly every day for a long time, but thought why not get involved at last.

Just wanted to add my two cents with regards to the side netting issue and gegenpress. I am managing Birmingham City (the team I support) and started off with a 4231 gegenpress formation. I was getting completely passed off the pitch and conceded 2 per game on so many occasions. I decided to change tactics and go with a 4411 wing play (two wingers on support and the 1 behind the forward being a shadow striker – Jude Bellingham) which worked wonders – especially away from home which I usually struggle with. I also set my team to regroup after losing the ball and to counter attack.

I ended up finishing 3rd in the league, lost in the play off semi final to Swansea (after winning the first leg 3-1 away from home). Maghoma, my left midfielder, ended the season on about 15 goals or so and big Juke up front finished on 23 league goals (2nd behind Mitrovic in the league). I only see the side netting incident about once every 4 or 5 games. It does happen, but it isn't an issue for me, and I also like to think I have a decent tactical set up despite going against the gegenpress grain. 

All in all i am enjoying it so far this year

Edit: one on one's are a bit frustrating, but I would say that they are 50/50 from what I have seen. A lot of my goals come from crosses with Juke heading home

Edited by Jonthedon26

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3 minutes ago, Jonthedon26 said:

This is my first ever post on this forum. I have been reading avidly every day for a long time, but thought why not get involved at last.

 

Glad you have, sir. More sense needed on here. 

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1 hour ago, Jonthedon26 said:

This is my first ever post on this forum. I have been reading avidly every day for a long time, but thought why not get involved at last.

Shame your first introduction to the site is GD. 

The forum is not all bad, promise!

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I'm so tired of the ME, I actively try to avoid anything that looks like the ME can't handle, like Asymmetric.

 

Still my beta save resulted in an unbeaten season, even beat Real Madrid 6-0 and my restarted run has the same problem, but I only won 4-0 against RM.

 

3+ Goals pr. game, very few goals scored against us.

 

I think it's mostly a 4-1-4-1 Wide DM Vertical Tiki-Taka. (At least that is what the press calls it.)

 

So I'm not sure the ME is any better than before, I'm still way too powerful as a human player, breaking records, while being a noob manager.

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4 hours ago, noikeee said:

Stretching them horizontally with very wide wingers/forwards, having a striker drop deep in an attempt to pull away defenders so that central runners from the midfield can burst in. 

I do think your diamond's success is encouraging, but your excellent win against Napoli with a very involved AMC was again in a heavy underdogs situation. ;) I would be curious to see what happens when you're favourites. I also wonder if the fact you're playing in Italy is helping, the Italian league is notoriously negative in game, so I suspect few AI managers are trying to proactively attack you on your weakest point, which is cover down the wings. 

I have to admit this thread is giving me lots of interesting tactical ideas though, I've not tried a diamond yet for example (I'm starting to suspect a whole bunch of issues I've seen only happen in formations with AML and AMR) and I might just shamelessly copy your tactic to play around with it. :p

Sure let me know if it works for you. Just one thing though, if you struggle to create chances or score, just remove the 'work ball into the box' TI. If you are still struggling, add 'counter' TI for transition.

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25 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Shame your first introduction to the site is GD. 

The forum is not all bad, promise!

I look forward to posting regularly going forward and seeing what the forum has in store for me

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4 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

even beat Real Madrid 6-0

What is this everybody winning against top clubs with such scores? I mean where's the fun? What tactics did you use?

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Actually if you visit tactic subforum there are a lot of discussion which give you idea to create any realistic and beautiful tactic without stupid exploits

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4 minutes ago, Mitja said:

What is this everybody winning against top clubs with such scores? I mean where's the fun? What tactics did you use?

Have you actually played the game or are you just nit-picking every scoreline in which a user is winning against big clubs? You are not adding any meaningful contribution to the discussions now.

Edited by pats

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3 minutes ago, Mitja said:

What is this everybody winning against top clubs with such scores? I mean where's the fun? What tactics did you use?

Because everyone goes defensive against me after a good run of form in early season.

 

If the other team is defensive I OWN the field and get so many opportunities to score goals, so since my team is Barca some of those star players is going to score and if that doesn't happen my back or midfield will save the day with shots. Aturo Vidal has 19 goals, that is the highest in the club. Arthur has 13. I'm going to have to consider dropping Ter Stegen and Sergio Busquet's as they have 0 goal and is embarrassing the team.

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2 minutes ago, pats said:

Have you actually played the game or are you just nit-picking every scoreline in which a user is winning against big clubs. You are just not adding any meaningful contribution to the discussions now.

Yes I have. How is my question not contributing? I've seen so many 4-0, 5-0, 6-0, 7-0 against top clubs it's unbelievable. And what is supposed to be bigger challange than playing stronger teams? 

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Winning everything with Barca and complaining about the game being too easy? 

If you give current Barca a top class manager in real life, they could well win everything. Imagine Pep or Klopp managing those players.

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4 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

so since my team is Barca

Oh. Still a good result though!

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5 minutes ago, pats said:

Winning everything with Barca and complaining about the game being too easy? 

If you give current Barca a top class manager in real life, they could well win everything. Imagine Pep or Klopp managing those players.

As I said and you apparently choose to ignore, I was pointing out ISSUES with the NATURE of the win, not the actual winning.

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1 hour ago, Miravlix said:

As I said and you apparently choose to ignore, I was pointing out ISSUES with the NATURE of the win, not the actual winning.

No, I haven't ignored anything. If you are a big team with big reputation and in a good form already, teams will naturally play defensive against you to give themselves a chance and stay in the match for as long as they can and hit you on the counter. How do you expect teams to setup against Messi, Suarez, Greizmann, Dembele and co.? Play open and and get beat 10-0 every match? How many teams in real life have a go at Man City or Liverpool? Not many. Even if they do, they get beaten anyways.

FM is trying to simulate real life football world. It can't artificially increase the difficulty for big clubs in game just because people can win easily with those clubs. Some people will always find a way to win big just like you have. May be it's time for a different challenge other than Barca for you.

Edited by pats

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1 hour ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I look forward to posting regularly going forward and seeing what the forum has in store for me

Top work with the Blues! :brock:

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What's surprised me most in this thread is the amount of people using lone strikers on an attack duty with no AMC behind him. Can it work even in a possession system? I always like my strikers to contribute with goals but never seem to achieve it with support duty strikers, probably down to me tbf :D

Edited by Gee_Simpson

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This seems a bit OT, but, given the talk About defending deep and how robust it were or weren't on FM20: Which most recent release would you consider the most viable for a low block a la Burnley 2017 (20 shots average needed to ship a Goal past them)? I suspect it'd be FM 19 for a variety of reasons. I've tried it with a vintage release with a vintage Squad for that vintage Season for vintage Squad reasons. It seems to work reasonably at times, though I don't rate the counters on that one. Two of the Goals here still were the results off counters, one leading to a set piece from which the Equalizer came, one counter leading to the Goal directly. Near the end we almost made it 1-3 though not from a counter attack as such.


GZmqScF.png

Btw, this also Shows why I don't rate the in-game CCCs. Like, at all. The defensive was practically dragged all over the pitch, whereas Celtic were all forced into punts and crowded spaces from the set piece, and General Play as we kept Things compact (unlike them… at one Point the AI even nuked its entire midfield strata, lol).  Yet there's not a single number to Show that. FM doesn't even Display what Mainstream sites do, which is the amount of shots from the set piece, the counter and open Play. And displaying the number of Players behind the ball upon the shots on average would also go a Long way and would help to add meaningful context for the game's final match Reports.

Edited by Svenc

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On 27/11/2019 at 13:22, Vali184 said:

So basically everyone is gegenpressing.

Nop. I switched from gengen press because I wasnt scoring goals. I use 4-2-3-1 Control possession and just scored in 10 consecutive matches. Still too many shots from wingers and overlapping full backs in stead of crosses, too many missed one -on-ones but I think thats an ME issue under review

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9 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

What's surprised me most in this thread is the amount of people using lone strikers on an attack duty with no AMC behind him. Can it work even in a possession system? 

Yes, but I always make sure I have an AP and a B2B in the CM area to help out in that area when needed. 

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