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trio129

THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS NOW!

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Aside the problem everyone has mentioned, people shooting from absurd angles, for me its going ok, if anything in my Bilbao save I seem to be winning games from very little, neither striker I have is world class but they are probably scoring from about every 2/3 chances they get. 

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2 hours ago, sidslayer said:

I’m not losing matches. I’m noticing annoying anomalies.

Im not moaning because I can’t win. I’m winning. I just think that crossing needs looking at, shooting into the side netting needs looking at and the fact that one in every two or three games the ai scores from one or two shots on goal also needs looking at.

Multiple tactics, multiple mentalities and instructions. 20 years experience.

I love Football Manager (and Championship Manager before that) and as you can see from my post count, I rarely comment on here, as I just enjoy playing the game, regardless of the few little bugs here and there.

I feel the need to comment on this though, as this whole wingers/wide players constantly shooting in to the side netting/at the keeper/over the bar etc time and time again, even if more often than not there's numerous players square on for a tap in, is driving me insane!

Obviously in real life we see players who will do this at times, probably more often than they should, but from reading comments on here and from my own experience, it's every wide player, every time, regardless of who it is.

As said by @sidslayer and I'm the same, I'm not moaning because I can't win and I'm actually doing quite well, it's just more the fact this is blatantly an issue with the ME and really does need to be fixed.

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49 minutes ago, Dazzz86 said:

I love Football Manager (and Championship Manager before that) and as you can see from my post count, I rarely comment on here, as I just enjoy playing the game, regardless of the few little bugs here and there.

I feel the need to comment on this though, as this whole wingers/wide players constantly shooting in to the side netting/at the keeper/over the bar etc time and time again, even if more often than not there's numerous players square on for a tap in, is driving me insane!

Obviously in real life we see players who will do this at times, probably more often than they should, but from reading comments on here and from my own experience, it's every wide player, every time, regardless of who it is.

As said by @sidslayer and I'm the same, I'm not moaning because I can't win and I'm actually doing quite well, it's just more the fact this is blatantly an issue with the ME and really does need to be fixed.

Agreed

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Hopefully the issues will be fixed. But DEAR LORD HAVE MERCY. The next time somebody is arguing how many shots he had on a spreadsheet and still lost the Matches, I'm going to jump off a cliff. :P Pep says hi -and that's just this term, he Drops the Points in all Matches like that in tendency as he's playing attacking footie, whilst most of his opp Keep Things tight on their end (and that's an elite Manager Closing spaces on the pitch he sees, not one-upping shot Counts on a spreadsheet and hoping the Goals will fall in place). ;)

https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1375942/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-City-Tottenham
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1375969/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Norwich-Manchester-City
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1376038/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-City-Wolverhampton-Wanderers

 

Same as for Zizou and his Real at their most banging, at times being leagues behind Barcelona, despite racking up the most attempts in all of Europe.

https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1222253/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Athletic-Bilbao
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1222186/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1222116/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Levante-Real-Madrid
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1222158/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Villarreal
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1222118/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Celta-Vigo-Real-Madrid
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1221978/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Real-Betis
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1221957/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Levante
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1221947/MatchReport/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Valencia

But then Pep would drop the Points against me even more severely. Sorry Pep. In particular if he played as stupidly aggressive as the AI on FM16. Besides, where would that leave Leicester in actual football? Won the league with an average of 13 shots FOR, 13 AGAINST.

coh2t5N.jpg

The **** barely converted from the set piece should be harder to come by, defending of wingers be adressed, so the shot Count+1 on the spreadsheet wouldn't go as high as 30ish this regularly. Else, if People don't want results against a run of Play at all, hopefully not gonna happen. I've lost Matches to 3 direct free kicks scored, and just moved on. That's Football. Sometimes just every other Opposition shot goes in. On Fm you're making it even more likely iif you just Keep spamming shots, as the game would flag the Forward frustrated, and the Opposition grow in confidence. Which is another re-occuring pattern: Outside of the odd Point Drops, the biggest whingers on this re-occuring pattern are HUGELY successful. But the Point drop must be the biggest bug to investigate…. and this happens every year regardless release. :onmehead:

Edited by Svenc

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36 minutes ago, Svenc said:

I've lost Matches to 3 direct free kicks scored, and just moved on.

You played aginst Juninho? 

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2 minutes ago, Mitja said:

You played aginst Juninho? 

Actually, it was lower league. The #rng at work on the dfk had me awarded with a 1 in  10.0000 match, probably. But naturally keepers on that Level are worse too. No Need for Juninho. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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when i started to play wider i immediatliy saw far less shooting from byline. of course it's not perfect but i don't even see too many poor crossings, to me crossing is better than in any other ME. but i watch in 2D. there were far too many crosses in previous games anyway. only problem i have is supply to my central forward.  and really freaky things going on like being avorded same penalty every game for 1- :D

Edited by Mitja

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Whilst we're at it, if this role selection weren't getting "FM'd" at some Point @Robioto, I'd severely Question the Integrity of the ME --and the AI Managers. And report it as a bug presto.

Quote

I've had quite a lot of luck in FM2019 with the Mezzala role in a 2 man midfield

Quote

Similar to a Box-to-Box Midfielder but with less defensive responsibility. The Mezzala gets into attacking positions that an Inside Forward would usually be found in.

 

 

This is what is says in-game.  Makes you think… aed09849dc12981cd348297dd974a107.png

Edited by Svenc

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Im yet to try FM2020, but it looks like the same ME keeps ruinning the game experience... year after year. :'(

Im not saying about tactics / statistics / results... the main problem is that players reactions still doesnt look good/acceptable (lot of times they seem blind or mentally ********)

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3 hours ago, OuvinteA said:



Im not saying about tactics / statistics / results... the main problem is that players reactions still doesnt look good/acceptable (lot of times they seem blind or mentally ********)


Righty-o. Doesn't Change the fact that there's at least two tactics at Play in this very thread that contribute to what the respective Players, including the Opening poster, are seeing/complaing About: lots of shots, the AI converting few. Even if the ME / AI were Inch perfect, that were to happen. Actually, at least one of those tactics would then be properly ripped to shreds however few time the Opposition had the ball. 

tldr; ME fixes aren't going to Change the finishing inconsistency of fishy tactics. 
 

Quote
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I am sick and tired of absolutely dominating games and then either losing 1-0 or drawing 1-1.... for example i played stoke i had 46 shots 34 from inside the box and 65% possession and they had 2 shots in total and won 1-0 from a 30 yard long shot are you for real this is not a fluke coincidence as this is happening time and time again over and over..

Edited by Svenc

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14 hours ago, OuvinteA said:

Im yet to try FM2020, but it looks like the same ME keeps ruinning the game experience... year after year. :'(

 

That's great you have a solid opinion on a game you've never played yet. 

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's great you have a solid opinion on a game you've never played yet. 

Well, he's bang on.

I've never been so frustrated playing Football Manager.

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13 minutes ago, ChelseaFan said:

Well, he's bang on.

 

Except he's not, but that's not important right now. 

The point being, you should actually play the game yourself before forming an opinion on it. 

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Since I've set my fullbacks to support, in a wider formation, they've stopped shooting at the side netting/impossible angles. They'll now cross it in to the box - or will lay it off to an IW or IF

From my experience, the narrower your FB/WB's play, the more inclined they are to take silly shots.

 

 

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On 24/11/2019 at 15:47, Mitja said:

agreed but 40+ shots is something i would report. 52 shots against similar quality team is very unrealistic, who's tactics is fault i don't know. but i just seen AI L'pool playing attacking 4231 against 532, match was played 7 vs 5 in attack for Southapton.clearly wrong formation and duty selection from AI.

I personally actually had reported that above 50+ shots match to SI. I did it not merely because of the shots. But because of the unrealistic tactics -- and/or unrealistici expectations placed on them, whichever you will. :D So that SI may improve some of their feedback. IIRC I got no Reply. In General, there is a reason why such is rarely reported.

In General, the tactic oft performs exceptionally for the Player. This is in parts to do with limited AI Managers. For as long as all those shots result in like 6 goals, it's all part of the fun (and never a bug to invest. It's at best only ever reported however few times the "shot sh*t hits the fan", if at all. Due to the General success however, usually it's just a "whinge post" in GD made. However, it's just happened in the Bugs Forum again,  and with another questionable (download) tactic to boot. That said, 30 shots and scoring but one is Nothing to write home About at all. The guy however seems struggling in General, but then arguably he damn should. Loads of shots on target for limited return ... meanwhile same Patterns every time. 

Edited by Svenc

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On 25/11/2019 at 16:06, FMunderachiever said:

In layman's terms, without getting into all the technicalities

Is there REALLY any reason to be watching wide players firing the ball into the near post side netting all game?

 

Like, irrespective of tactical set up, that just wouldn't happen. The end.

Disagree - sometimes they hit the outside of the post.

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3 hours ago, Rwilliams90 said:

Disagree - sometimes they hit the outside of the post.

Also disagree - sometimes they score.

And a quick rule of thumb (works for me anyway) - if I'm getting more than 25 shots on goal (on goal, not on target) against a team who aren't significantly weaker, that's a massive indicator that there's something wrong with my tactic. It's ridiculously easy to create a tactic that generates huge amounts of shots; much harder to create a tactic that actually scores goals. And as all of these threads testify, the AI seems to find it easy to score 1 or 2 goals from very few shots. And the AI isn't very smart, so why can't human managers do it?

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4 hours ago, warlock said:

And the AI isn't very smart, so why can't human managers do it?

BECAUSE AFTER WATCHING LOADS OF MOTD THEY THINK FOOTBALL IS A SPORTS OF HAVING MORE POSS AND SHOTS ON A SPREADSHEET COME THE END OF A MATCH; WHILST THE AI DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN EXCEPT FOR THE GOALS SCORED. Like Portugal at the Euros, Chelski when Winning the CL, Leicester when Winning the Prem, Burnley when frustrating the heck out of everyone in 2017, to some extent even France at the WC, with them having had a fraction of the shots + shots on target as Brazil, Germany, Spain. On this simplistic Level of data, None of this  makes sense, and FM doesn't have a load to replace it. The CCCs surely don't. https://www.theringer.com/soccer/2018/6/27/17511596/2018-world-cup-germany-south-korea-mexico-sweden-elimination

Caps-locked as that's a massively spoiler. :DBear in mind that the AI on average doesn't Play as ridiculously open as the human Managers to boot 24/7 (or the 9.5/10 tactical Downloads...), in fact it tries to grind out results with defensive Football Pretty often, and there you go. It's only matter of time then until it either lucks out, -- or actually deserves to take the Points, like with at least two tactics posted in this thread, which struggle to stretch defenses and create too much crap purely from the set piece. Sometimes, in particular if the favorite, it may attack though. Missed opportunity for anybody watching loads of MOTD.

Pep's just added another on the Weekend, btw. And he's quite clearly a class ABOVE OF THE ABOVE. :D 

https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1376045/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1375942/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-City-Tottenham
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1375969/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Norwich-Manchester-City
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1376038/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Manchester-City-Wolverhampton-Wanderers

Edited by Svenc

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Tried knap's 'Sympathy for the Devil' tactic and played a few games with it.

It seems to have solved the issue of blasting the ball into the side netting and players are now cutting the ball back from the byline. My strikers are now scoring goals whereas before they weren't even involved in the game.

It encourages a style of football that I really don't want to play and I'd rather tinker with my own tactics, but it's making the ME experience bearable.

I do still think it's a bug with certain formations though.

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It’s the year 2019 and people are still raging about the same issues we have had year in year out on Fm games, I mean FM 20 has been out since Beta stage like what, 5-6 weeks and the game has had four, five patches/hotfix’s... the game is a mess, as much as we love FM, it’s a mess, the long balls are way over effective which makes the bad one v one’s stand out more, yet S.I patch one v one’s so now long balls are EVEN more effective lol, you can train tika taka for an whole month, and still get dominated on possession by a Wigan team with 10 men from the 10th minute lol... literally just pointless this year, same bugs, same issues, same Nvidia stutter issue’s having to be resolved by using prefer max performance, as I said before I can’t be bothered this year, in terms of general gaming in 2019, people are realising how desperate we are getting, to avoiding boredom, I play Tennis Clash, a phone game, better gameplay than these £30, £40, £50 games. Absolutely ridiculous.

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6 hours ago, Andrew_Goats_Gruff said:

It’s the year 2019 and people are still raging about the same issues we have had year in year out on Fm games, I mean FM 20 has been out since Beta stage like what, 5-6 weeks and the game has had four, five patches/hotfix’s... the game is a mess, as much as we love FM, it’s a mess, the long balls are way over effective which makes the bad one v one’s stand out more, yet S.I patch one v one’s so now long balls are EVEN more effective lol, you can train tika taka for an whole month, and still get dominated on possession by a Wigan team with 10 men from the 10th minute lol... literally just pointless this year, same bugs, same issues, same Nvidia stutter issue’s having to be resolved by using prefer max performance, as I said before I can’t be bothered this year, in terms of general gaming in 2019, people are realising how desperate we are getting, to avoiding boredom, I play Tennis Clash, a phone game, better gameplay than these £30, £40, £50 games. Absolutely ridiculous.

So we've had the "same issues" "year in year out", and yet you still bought 20?  That seems...sensible.

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36 minutes ago, forameuss said:

So we've had the "same issues" "year in year out", and yet you still bought 20?  That seems...sensible.

? Well he lives in hope like we all do

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4 minutes ago, prot651 said:

? Well he lives in hope like we all do

But see that still seems pointless.  If you've spent multiple versions complaining about issues that apparently don't change, why would you drop yet more money on a product after that, when you could make use of the completely free demo?  Literally every "issue" mentioned in that post is something you could tell in that 6 month demo period, yet you pay for the product, and then come along afterwards and complain aout something you already knew?  What is the point in that?

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7 hours ago, Andrew_Goats_Gruff said:

you can train tika taka for an whole month, and still get dominated on possession by a Wigan team with 10 men from the 10th minute lol

If that's what you're seeing you're doing it wrong and you should visit the Tactics & Training forum to get some advice.  It's not the game making 10 man Wigan dominate possession against your tiki taka system.

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17 minutes ago, forameuss said:

But see that still seems pointless.  If you've spent multiple versions complaining about issues that apparently don't change, why would you drop yet more money on a product after that, when you could make use of the completely free demo?  Literally every "issue" mentioned in that post is something you could tell in that 6 month demo period, yet you pay for the product, and then come along afterwards and complain aout something you already knew?  What is the point in that?

Not really . Im a perfectionist but I still buy the game . Im more into the editor side of things and doing kits and logos etc . I actually played the Demo I said nope im not getting it this year but it got the best of me Dam It !!!! :lol:

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19 minutes ago, herne79 said:

If that's what you're seeing you're doing it wrong and you should visit the Tactics & Training forum to get some advice.  It's not the game making 10 man Wigan dominate possession against your tiki taka system.

Watching 5-10 full minutes of the game should give a clue why Wigan dominate possession even with 10 men.

If you generate low possession %, it can be down to instructions telling your players to be more risky in their passes so they lose possession frequently, or it can be formation related (not enough passing options in transitions), or it can be that the AI is playing a very low risk football which is practically passing it back and forth between defenders and midfielders. I've seen this particularly in FM19 when I was the big dog in the league. Sometimes poor teams  were generating better possession % than me so I got annoyed and switched to Full Match to notice that the opponents were passing it like I said and I wasn't giving them a headache due to no press.

Edited by Armistice

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1 minute ago, Armistice said:

Watching 5-10 full minutes of the game should give a clue why Wigan dominate possession even with 10 men. It can be instructions telling them to be more risky in their passes, or it can be formation related (not enough passing options), or it can be that the AI is playing a very low risk football which is practically passing it back and forth between defenders and midfielders. I've seen this particularly in FM19 when I was the big dog in my league but sometimes I would see poor teams generate better possession than me so I just switched to Full Match and noticed that the opponents were passing it back and forth like I said and I wasn't pressing them much so they were free to "waste" time that way.

That's not my point.  If you're losing the possession battle when playing tiki taka, you're not playing tiki taka.

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@herne79

I can confirm my team was playing a tika taka style and had 70% possession in other games, but away v Wigan with 10 men after 10 minutes was a step too far for my team lol wigan ended the game with 60% possession as well lol I don’t want tactical advice i’m just sharing my experience

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On 24/11/2019 at 02:17, trio129 said:

I am sick and tired of absolutely dominating games and then either losing 1-0 or drawing 1-1.... for example i played stoke i had 46 shots 34 from inside the box and 65% possession and they had 2 shots in total and won 1-0 from a 30 yard long shot are you for real this is not a fluke coincidence as this is happening time and time again over and over...wing backs getting into a great crossing position 2 guys clear in the box hits shot into side netting instruction take less risks shoot less often, cross more often, cross from by line this happens at least 5 times per match! 

My tactic is attached below 

 

Trio 4231 Narrow.fmf 43.18 kB · 23 downloads

I feel you always need to watch at least a couple of matches in "full match" to get a good idea of what's going on during matches. Stats complement that observation, theey can't replace it.

On 24/11/2019 at 03:16, Svenc said:

Rather upload the Matches.

I wish you could save matches and, with the match replay, you'd get "time markings" of the tactical changes + shouts + etc. That would be plain gold. It shouldn't be too hard for SI to implement it either.There still isn't such a feature, right? I'm still playing FM 2018, so I'm assuming they haven't implemented it yet.

 

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So, below average FM Player doesn'T dominate the poss against Wigan, big deal. Pep more recent didn'T dominate the Possession against Chelski in his own back Yard. In-game there will be a reason for that and a solution if anybody actually bothered to watch / upload the matches -> tactical Forums. If you think it's a bug, go ahead and report it. On FM17 all Wigan had to do was having an extra man in centre midfield over their Opposition. Don't think that's the case anymore as to FM 20.

 

5 hours ago, Zanman777 said:

I wish you could save matches and, with the match replay, you'd get "time markings" of the tactical changes + shouts + etc. That would be plain gold. It shouldn't be too hard for SI to implement it either.There still isn't such a feature, right? I'm still playing FM 2018, so I'm assuming they haven't implemented it yet.

 

The game / Analysis making a statistical distinction where shots originate from (open Play / set piece / counters) were already a start and massive improvement from my end. This would also make for better contextual match Feedback. 

Edited by Svenc

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On 24/11/2019 at 03:16, Svenc said:

Rather upload the Matches. Plus the fixture list marking how often it's Happening. I'm Pretty sure what's to be found if a repeat. Spoiler: There may be a few reasonably high Quality chances in there. However, even the best ones shouldn't be higher than 50/50 Affairs. In other words: They will be missed. The bulk of them will be headers and similar from the set piece, as your tactic may pin the Opposition back (and the Opposition sits Deep to spoil anyway). But struggles to create space and break that defense down. A set piece, after all is the result of a side still getting a foot into your move. The game doesn't have a stat for this though, so you would need to manually go through all the Opposition shots. You will have lots more shots than the Opposition as soon as the AI sits rigidly back, btw. It's simply a byproduct of their tactial choice. Having lots more shots doesn't equal to playing well naturally --  see Germany at last year's World Cup. Enjoyed by far the most shots, barely scored a Thing. Plus, they were so open, every however few times their OP won the ball back, it was immediately dangerous.

This  tactic btw is compressing the space. It's the narrow 4-2-3-1. One of the two CMs is a box to box pushing into the same space as the guys in front of him. The front four when going Forward will already be sitting Deep in the final third of the op by Default. That's the space deep sitting Opposition tries to congest itself. You've even manually overwritten some Forward run "instructions". You've selected to Focus Play through the middle, which can make the guys out wide less involved -- usually the ball will drift out wide naturally though, as your middle is so compressed. Additionally, you're encouraging to take players to shoot from all over the place 90 minutes (those who aren't then manually discouraged from doing so anywaay..). If you want to raise something, raise to SI that you shouldn't be able to easily do anything like this. Plus better Feedback. You're meantn to be an "actual Manager" within the game's Simulation of Football, after all. 

The compression can be seen in the average positioning map "with ball" in the match Analysis as well -- basically the guys tend to be sitting "atop of each other", in particular on the side of the box to box. That means they are also far easiler to engage. Which is where those added set pieces may be coming from.


bnw9VjV.png


 

Where did u get this picture from? I've looking for this screen in-game for 2 days now!

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4 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Where did u get this picture from? I've looking for this screen in-game for 2 days now!

When in a match / viewing a pkm file, click Analysis, Team analysis, average positioning (this specifically is the average positioning with ball, to Show the Impact / flaws on the attaking shape encouraged via the roles and instructions picked). 

Edited by Svenc

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2 hours ago, Svenc said:

When in a match / viewing a pkm file, click Analysis, Team analysis, average positioning (this specifically is the average positioning with ball, to Show the Impact / flaws on the attaking shape encouraged via the roles and instructions picked). 

Can you see this in-game anywhere? For your team, not from pkm files?

Edited by Sharkn20

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4 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Can you see this in-game anywhere? For your team, not from pkm files?

Yes, it's the same Option available during Matches as well. Analysis -> Team -> average Position. During Matches, the average Position of each player is naturally still going to shift some accordingly to the match Play / tactics. 

5 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Interesting, it does seem awful easy to wrack up 25+ attempts at goal without even trying 

Has Always been the case against defensive AI dropping Deep with a reasonably attacking set up (no much defend duties, actually Holding Position, etc. etc.). Those Players will push up, and take shots, be it from the set piece after a foul/deflection, range, or whatever. The Question is then what those shots look like.... as that influences whether that would at all translate into much Goals. If you'd simple ape the AI here on Prior Releases, however… like two Cowboys afraid to draw the gun first. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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On 23/11/2019 at 21:48, trio129 said:

chas can you upload your tactic or even try mine if you could see if you can see whats going wrong? 

I'm using Lampard Gegenpress, as well as the Wulf tactic in the same 4-5-1 formation. Lampard Gegenpress is my main, pretty much unchanged except for the corner routine.

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