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astrxAIR

Anyone had any success utilizing a Shadow Striker?

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Playing with Leverkusen, Trying to use Havertz as my focal point as a shadow striker, he makes the runs excellently, just players refuse to pass to him even though he's in acres of space. Any one had success using a Shadow Striker? If so, how did you do it.

I guess you could use this thread as a discussion regarding getting the best out of shadow strikers.

 

Edited by astrxAIR

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In the Beta, I had some success with Spurs using Dele Alli as a SS behind Kane DLP (s).

Not tried using the role since the full release though.

How does Havertz as SS fit into your tactic as a whole? What are the TIs you're using? And are they set up in combination with player roles so that the other players are looking for his runs when he makes them?

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On 24/11/2019 at 00:57, astrxAIR said:

Playing with Leverkusen, Trying to use Havertz as my focal point as a shadow striker, he makes the runs excellently, just players refuse to pass to him even though he's in acres of space. Any one had success using a Shadow Striker? If so, how did you do it.

I guess you could use this thread as a discussion regarding getting the best out of shadow strikers.

 

I did briefly in FM19, I played in a 4-2-3-1 with the SS the only attack duty in the front 4, it was only for a few games but I remember him getting 4 in one  

It was something like this:

 

                              DLF(S)

IF(S)                       SS(A)                       IF(S)

 

That was after a lot of tinkering, I found, basically any other attack duty in that front 4 would take the shine away from the SS as the SS does have a fair bit of creativity within the role 

Edited by Johnny Ace

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26 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I did briefly in FM19, I played in a 4-2-3-1 with the SS the only attack duty in the front 4, it was only for a few games but I remember him getting 4 in one  

It was something like this:

 

                              DLF(S)

IF(S)                       SS(A)                       IF(S)

 

That was after a lot of tinkering, I found, basically any other attack duty in that front 4 would take the shine away from the SS as the SS does have a fair bit of creativity within the role 

This setup really interests me, especially with the introduction of IW's into the AR/L positions. I think the key would be the rest of the team as well. I think with those front four it would need some really interesting player roles behind them. Something like:

 

                              DLF(S)

IW(S)                       SS(A)                       IW(A)

 

             DLP(S)                      CM(D)

 

IWB(D)           CD(D)           CD(D)           FB(S)

 

I'd overlap the right to keep the AMR and DR closer together. Also defend wider. I'd probably set the attack wider, distribute to the full backs and pass into space. Besides that, I'm not sure what I'd do.

 

I haven't had real success with a SS since FM18 when I used it in both a diamond and a 3-5-2

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Looks interesting at @nick1408, I'm really not sure on the IW(A) though, if anything I'd have a Winger(A) so he's wide & high up the pitch rather than looking to cut in. I wouldn't use an IWB(D) behind a DLP(S) either as the DLP will hold position so you'd sort of double up on the that area on the pitch, a FB(S) on the left with DLP(S) would link nicely 

Of course I've not tried that & an IWB(D) may be a blessing with this ME  :D

Edited by Johnny Ace

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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

I'd have a Winger(A) so he's wide & high up the pitch

a FB(S) on the left with DLP(S) would link nicely

yep!

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I've use one a little. My main tactic is a 4-3-3 but when I want some more numbers in the box I 'flip the triangle' to move the Second Striker behind a DLF. The main benefit is his presence in the box and I agree with the above to use an out and out winger to stretch the play. It's a great role on the counter and it just bursts past the DLF, provided he has some pace and makes runs for more creative players to find all across the pitch. If I get promotion to the Premier League I'm thinking about a 4-4-1-1 that utilises a Second Striker on the break. My strikers are pretty poor DLFs so I'd need to find the right player. I'd live to see how it combos with a False 9 in the future. 

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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

Looks interesting at @nick1408, I'm really not sure on the IW(A) though, if anything I'd have a Winger(A) so he's wide & high up the pitch rather than looking to cut in. I wouldn't use an IWB(D) behind a DLP(D) either as the DLP will hold position so you'd sort of double up on the that area on the pitch, a FB(S) on the left with DLP(S) would link nicely 

Of course I've not tried that & an IWB(D) may be a blessing with this ME  :D

I had a cup game against Tottenham so thought I'd try the theory out above.  Ended up with this formation:

                               DLF(S)

IW(S)                       SS(A)                       IW(A)

 

             DLP(S)                      CM(D)

 

IWB(D)           CD(D)           CD(D)           FB(S)

 

                                   SK(S) 

 

Positive mentality, Shorter passing, Hit early crosses, Run at defence, Overlap right, Extremely wide, Distribute to full backs, Counter, Counter-press, Defend wider, Use offside trap. The two wide AM's were set to swap positions.

 

As Everton my side lined up as follows:

 

                               Sandro

Richarlison           Olmo                       Iwobi

 

             Davies                      Gbamin

 

Coleman          Mina          Keane           Kehrer

 

                              Virginia

 

As you can see my side isn't full strength (theirs was) but snagged a 4-0 win. They did have two own goals but I did feel the two own goals were forced I felt (defenders in bad positions and under pressure forcing a mistake). One game is a small sample and honestly I'm not sure if I will keep going with it but I liked how the IWB and DLP linked up and also how a big overload was created on the right. Tottenham did have a good presence on my left but it was covered well if they did attack down that side:

image.png.b36ad2416bef8733a22ef5ee1f5b9ed4.png

I didn't really use the middle but I didn't need to. The DLP was best on ground with two chances created, 4 key passes and an assist. Defence was really solid. The striker and SS were a bit impotent but I feel it was the players there rather than those supplying them. If my current tactic starts to falter I might really consider this.

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18 minutes ago, nick1408 said:

As Everton my side lined up as follows:

I might give this a shot and use Richarlison as the SS.

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In my current save with kazincbarcika (hungarian second division team) i had an excellent first year (media pred: 14, i won the second division) using the SS with a Complete Striker in front of him, a Trequartista at right and IF at left. 

What i have seen It that even if the SS seems to be 'shadow' also for the teammates (they look at him only he totally free), he had to be marked so he allowed the others to have more space.

It's my impression.

(the second year, in premier was a disaster, making 13 points, my fault to have my experienced central defender left to buy two young U18)

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6 hours ago, rockpie said:

In the Beta, I had some success with Spurs using Dele Alli as a SS behind Kane DLP (s).

Not tried using the role since the full release though.

How does Havertz as SS fit into your tactic as a whole? What are the TIs you're using? And are they set up in combination with player roles so that the other players are looking for his runs when he makes them?

I've chopped and changed so much in frustration I don't even have a set tactic for it anymore. I've tinkered with LOE to allow space ahead of me to run in to on transitions, tinkered with passing range, speed, everything.

Currently the tactic goes as: 

 

                               DLF(S)
                        Fischer/Volland

WS)                       SS(A)                       IW(S)
Sancho/Bailey    Havertz                 Bailey/Paulinho

 

             DLP(S)                      CM(D)
           Szoboszlai                Ajer

 

FB(s)           CD(D)           CD(D)           FB(A)
Pellegrini   Wober        Tah              Weiser

 

                                   SK(S) 
                               Hradecky



Szoboszlai has tries killer balls trait and the appropriate stats to in theory find Havertz whenever he pleases, however he just passes it wide instead most of the time.


Overall it's been frustrating as Havertz has all the stats to be the deadliest SS in the game. I am super determined to get a working system for my Main save as Birmingham as I intend to develop Jude Bellingham in to my star SS
 

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5 minutes ago, astrxAIR said:

I've chopped and changed so much in frustration I don't even have a set tactic for it anymore. I've tinkered with LOE to allow space ahead of me to run in to on transitions, tinkered with passing range, speed, everything.

Currently the tactic goes as: 

 

                               DLF(S)
                        Fischer/Volland

WS)                       SS(A)                       IW(S)
Sancho/Bailey    Havertz                 Bailey/Paulinho

 

             DLP(S)                      CM(D)
           Szoboszlai                Ajer

 

FB(s)           CD(D)           CD(D)           FB(A)
Pellegrini   Wober        Tah              Weiser

 

                                   SK(S) 
                               Hradecky



Szoboszlai has tries killer balls trait and the appropriate stats to in theory find Havertz whenever he pleases, however he just passes it wide instead most of the time.


Overall it's been frustrating as Havertz has all the stats to be the deadliest SS in the game. I am super determined to get a working system for my Main save as Birmingham as I intend to develop Jude Bellingham in to my star SS
 

Trying make the left winger a W (a).

Add take more risks player instruction to DLP (s).

Team instruction to overlap on the right.

Maybe you already those things set. What other team and player instructions are you using at the moment? Hard to suggest effective changes without knowing what's already being used.

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10 minutes ago, rockpie said:

Trying make the left winger a W (a).

Add take more risks player instruction to DLP (s).

Team instruction to overlap on the right.

Maybe you already those things set. What other team and player instructions are you using at the moment? Hard to suggest effective changes without knowing what's already being used.

Id suggest a high line with leverkusen as they have plenty of pace in the back 4, and maybe tah on cover for extra protection for longballs. I can see a Gegenpress work for them.. 

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18 minutes ago, rockpie said:

Trying make the left winger a W (a).

Add take more risks player instruction to DLP (s).

Team instruction to overlap on the right.

Maybe you already those things set. What other team and player instructions are you using at the moment? Hard to suggest effective changes without knowing what's already being used.

Mentality: Positive

In possession: Play out of defense

Transition: Counter

Out of possession: Prevent short distribution, Use offside Trap

PI's: LW ST RW : Close down more. LW RW: Shoot less often.

I stripped it down and made it simplistic to let the players do them as they're good players, I'ma give this iteration a few more games to get a greater overlook of what's going right and wrong.

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7 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

Id suggest a high line with leverkusen as they have plenty of pace in the back 4, and maybe tah on cover for extra protection for longballs. I can see a Gegenpress work for them.. 

I won the Bundesliga and Europa League in my 1st season basically using my own interpretation of Tuchels Dortmund. Used high Dline and LOE, intense pressing however i've been doing 4-3-3's/ 4-1-2-3's pretty much religiously since fm 12 so I felt like trying something different.

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