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kutlubey

You messed up match engine

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In beta it was pretty messed up like no pass in 2v1 or always misses 1v1 and never score in freekick. However in now you cant score and your players play like garbage. I have striker has 18 finishing, 17 first touch and 16 technique still cant score. My team -98 million euro worth- is so much stronger than other teams in the league but a club -8 million euro worth- won the league. Their goal ratio 3.2 mine is 1.8 this is madness. I tried 6 tactic and played 3 season restart with same team still cant win the league. 

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Not gonna call upon the old boring “it can happen in football, look at x team” cliche, but it sounds like you’re doing something wrong if you have a good team and underperform.

Using downloaded tactics doesn’t guarantee you instant success afaik.

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Actually, the match engine seems to be one thing they really polished, compared to FM19.

If your strikers don't score, there is a reason. Not enough passes, not enough space, playing against weaker teams that park the bus. The list goes on.

Also, as @Armistice said, don't use downloaded tactics. Every team is different, and you need to tailor your tactic (or team) carefully for it to work.

Start with a basic tactic, watch the whole match, see where the problems are. Watching only the highlights totally defeats the purpose of the game.

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I would suggest posting your full tactical setup in the tactics forum, detail why you chose what you chose (so explaining your vision) and what issues you have. Others should be able to help.

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32 minutes ago, kutlubey said:

In beta it was pretty messed up like no pass in 2v1 or always misses 1v1 and never score in freekick. However in now you cant score and your players play like garbage. I have striker has 18 finishing, 17 first touch and 16 technique still cant score. My team -98 million euro worth- is so much stronger than other teams in the league but a club -8 million euro worth- won the league. Their goal ratio 3.2 mine is 1.8 this is madness. I tried 6 tactic and played 3 season restart with same team still cant win the league. 

This such a easy branded comment, with not much evidence. I'm playing in Sweden with Hacken, my striker has finished top goal scorer in the league with 20+ last 2 seasons. Playing a 4-2-3-1 tika taka standard tempo short passing game. 

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You dont understand. I have tried 4 different tactics from in game tactic generator other 2 was outer dowloaded tactics. I have tried every way tiki-taka, gegenpress and counter-attack at away but still losing 17th team 3-1 in my HOME. All of my game's ends up with 2-3 shot to goal in spite of i order to get into box with passes. Just garbage this year i might stop playing this year. The most crucial thing in the game total garbage. I won against Liverpool at away 3-1 but losing 17th at my home 3-1 or the team at the top losing 18th 4-0. What is that for real? What kind of concept this game is tying on to us? I have never seen this much bady FM match engine ever. I have playing it since 2006-2007 and watching my older brothers since CM but this... this is poor.

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Please read @HUNT3R's post above as it certainly looks like this is a tactical issue and given the amount of feedback so far, not a universal issue with the game.

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Also, please don't circumvent the swear filter. You can get your point across without it. It's a family forum, remember.

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I can see where the OP is coming from.  While it's not as dramatic as he's stating, good strikers aren't scoring.  Then, there's the kicking it into the sidenet issue. 

I use 3 tactics that are suggested in the game: (I can also bet alot of people use the same)

1. Tiki Taka 4-2-3-1 

2. Fluid Counter Attack 4-1-4-1 

3. Gegenpress 4-2-3-1

 

It doesn't matter much which tactic is used.  Even when the pre-match analysis says a team is weak against a particular formation, strikers don't score that much.  It's mostly from outside the box, long range from midfielders.   The wingers and strikers see to like to shoot into the sidenetting alot.  I know that's being looked at, but I can see where OP is coming from.

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10 dakika önce, extremeskins04 said:

I can see where the OP is coming from.  While it's not as dramatic as he's stating, good strikers aren't scoring.  Then, there's the kicking it into the sidenet issue. 

I use 3 tactics that are suggested in the game: (I can also bet alot of people use the same)

1. Tiki Taka 4-2-3-1 

2. Fluid Counter Attack 4-1-4-1 

3. Gegenpress 4-2-3-1

 

It doesn't matter much which tactic is used.  Even when the pre-match analysis says a team is weak against a particular formation, strikers don't score that much.  It's mostly from outside the box, long range from midfielders.   The wingers and strikers see to like to shoot into the sidenetting alot.  I know that's being looked at, but I can see where OP is coming from.

I especially ordered my nearly every player to not shot from outside of the box. I just checked my CL groups Liverpool, Inter, Dortmund, Barcelona, Napoli, Ajax and Juventus failed to qualify group stage. LOL. Total mess. Shaktar Celtic SLB qualified instead.

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It certainly takes a bit more work this year.

Playing Vardy as a poacher you can get him scoring 20 premier league goals a season with a basic 4141 set up.

Considering i got 80 goals out of him in a season in FM17 i much prefer it this way :lol:

Basically its much more realistic, its been too easy in previous versions, now there has been a correction to more realistic levels of goal scoring people need to adjust there expectations as to what is a good goal return.

You will notice an severe lack of any tactics in the tactics forum, as no one has been able to deliver a suitably strong one hitting the heights of previous years.

Best i've managed myself is 70 points, 70 goals and a +25 goal difference with the original Leicester team, a fair bit short of what i'd usually be able to do. And i'm running out of ideas on how to improve that.     

 

 

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1 hour ago, kutlubey said:

Their goal ratio 3.2 mine is 1.8 this is madness

If the AI can do that, so can you. There is no bias in the game either for or against the user in this regard. So as much as you may dislike it, you may need to suck it up and ask for a bit of help.

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31 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

It certainly takes a bit more work this year.

Playing Vardy as a poacher you can get him scoring 20 premier league goals a season with a basic 4141 set up.

Considering i got 80 goals out of him in a season in FM17 i much prefer it this way :lol:

Basically its much more realistic, its been too easy in previous versions, now there has been a correction to more realistic levels of goal scoring people need to adjust there expectations as to what is a good goal return.

You will notice an severe lack of any tactics in the tactics forum, as no one has been able to deliver a suitably strong one hitting the heights of previous years.

Best i've managed myself is 70 points, 70 goals and a +25 goal difference with the original Leicester team, a fair bit short of what i'd usually be able to do. And i'm running out of ideas on how to improve that.     

 

 

 

I tried to do a test with the 4141 tiki taka which is a pretty basic possession setup and it's what the game recommends with Man Utd as one of the tactics to use based on the squad.

The problem is that if someone is using that they aren't going to score alot of goals because of the "Shorter passing" and "Playing out of defense" instructions.  It's really weighted this year and by doing just these two instructions the decent defenses have loads of time to get back into position and defend. 

I tried this as a test and I went 9 straight matches with either a 1-0 result or a 0-0 draw.  Then I played Liverpool and lost 0-3.   This coupled with the sidenetting problem, etc.

 

Mind if I ask what tactic you use?  

Edited by extremeskins04

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Post some pictures of your tactics. Maybe we can help.

Edited by Lempicka
typo

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18 minutes ago, kutlubey said:

I have 18 penalty taker and he scored 4 of 10. This year crap.

I think composure and determination is really good in these situations too what are his attributes in those areas?

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21 minutes ago, extremeskins04 said:

 

I tried to do a test with the 4141 tiki taka which is a pretty basic possession setup and it's what the game recommends with Man Utd as one of the tactics to use based on the squad.

The problem is that if someone is using that they aren't going to score alot of goals because of the "Shorter passing" and "Playing out of defense" instructions.  It's really weighted this year and by doing just these two instructions the decent defenses have loads of time to get back into position and defend. 

I tried this as a test and I went 9 straight matches with either a 1-0 result or a 0-0 draw.  Then I played Liverpool and lost 0-3.   This coupled with the sidenetting problem, etc.

 

Mind if I ask what tactic you use?  

Just something of my own i was trailing, off the top of my head Attacking mentality, high defensive line, high press, default passing range and tempo. Play out of defence, quick throw.

But with the 4141 you need to get to work on player roles to support attacks, went with Poacher, Winger/attack on both flanks, both central midfielders were Mezzala/Support, Inverted Wingbacks/attack both sides, and normal centre backs. Roaming Playmaker/support in DM position.

To be clear, i've moved on from the 4141, whilst Vardy was able to get his quota of goals, i was returning about 65 points, 60 goals for and 35 goals against with this set up with Leicester season 1 with no signings, decent return but a little off what i'd been able to get with other formations (i test 9 or 10 formations each year before settling on a formation i like and then tweak from there).      

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5 dakika önce, emil_sbn said:

I think composure and determination is really good in these situations too what are his attributes in those areas?

It is 15-14 in order

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Still no tactics. Some people seem to live in binary world of a) game is too easy or b) game is broken.

 

ill be honest, I haven’t played enough games to see any obvious issues with ME. What I have noticed is tinkering system and adding/removing instructions does translate to pitch. It’s early times, but if you download a tactic online (that has hardly had time to be refined) and don’t marry it to your squad and your training regiment and do not account for your opponent you should not expect automatic success. Broadly stating that a tactic does not work is very simple logic. What elements are working, what elements are not. 

Edited by s0ni42

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Creating a tactic is easy.  Creating a good tactic is hard.  And even if you create a good one, the AI will counter, so you will need to tweak it moving forward.

Post your tactic(s) - there are good people on here who are happy to help.  Or, as Mark says above, check out bustthenet on YouTube - you can learn so much from him, and others.

 

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2 hours ago, Lempicka said:

Post some pictures of your tactics. Maybe we can help.

I sense that he or she doesn't want help, simply to complain that it's not their fault and SI should fix it.

 

I've found the game more difficult this year, insomuch as I thought I was struggling because my team wasn't playing how I'd like it to, not scoring enough and conceding too many silly goals. And then I noticed I was top of the league with the most goals scored and a decent goals conceded. I'd got so focused on the fact I wasn't blowing teams away like in previous versions.

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I would just harp on the fact the game is brand new. How much credibility can a downloaded tactic have, 2 days after official release and even shorter time frame for updates that do affect ME (ie penalties being rewarded at high rate)

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It sounds like you are a sub par manager. Your board should sack you and appoint this guy who won the league with less resources.

 

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I’m not here to say something about ME. Of course it’s not perfect and the reason behind your failure may be ME. But may be not. Tactics are so important. Squad quality is one other thing for being succesfull. And there are lots of other things like team harmony, morale, motivation, training etc. 

ME is same for you and AI teams. If your team miss lots of 1v1s so AI too. Or penalties and whole other things.

Yes i know sometimes it makes us crazy. But at the end of the story that’s a game. Have fun :)

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If anything I'm finding it easier than last year so far. Maybe I've just unwittingly created a solid tactic.

I do think there remains an issue with players reaching the byline and shooting from ridiculous angles. Especially when there are one or more unmarked players for a simple cut back or square pass.

Does this happen in real life? Absolutely. Does it happen as often as FM? Nowhere near it. In fact, if players attempted some of these shots IRL I could see them being benched, or at the very least would get an earful from their teammates. I also appreciate that many situations in football happen at a much greater frequency in FM, it's just the nature of a computer game. Hitting the woodwork far more than the real life average is a good example. But this continual failure to play the only logical pass in these situations is getting very tiring. No player IRL would shoot from OUTSIDE the 6 yard box within 2 yds of the byline, they just wouldn't. 

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6 hours ago, kutlubey said:

I especially ordered my nearly every player to not shot from outside of the box. I just checked my CL groups Liverpool, Inter, Dortmund, Barcelona, Napoli, Ajax and Juventus failed to qualify group stage. LOL. Total mess. Shaktar Celtic SLB qualified instead.

Calling bollocks on all those teams not qualifying.

I've not conceded a goal in the league yet with Liverpool and scored about 15, 5 wins from 5. Nothing special going on with the tactic, usual 4-3-3 gegenpress, tweaking how attacking I play depending on the opposition and how the game's going.

It's been well documented that Liverpool are pretty good this year, so it's not like the above is anything special, but to say the game's broke "cuz I can't win" is nonsense.

Post your team, your results and your tactics and people will try to help.

Btw I'm not yet sold on the ME, still loads of room for improvement -players refusing to put a challenge in, just running next to the attacker; the slowing down of the attacker when he meets a defender; the dribbling animations; the limp attacks in and around the box etc. - it's made me go 2D. 

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6 hours ago, kutlubey said:

I have 18 penalty taker and he scored 4 of 10. This year crap.

must be your tactics LOL .. according at least to some above 
there is certainly an issue but in all fairness is slightly better with full release was worst with beta

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Thank you for your help i really glad to you all. However, I have never ever dowloaded tactics until 2020 go nuts and it came out badly. I would like to do it on my own. It is just feedback to you guys. Only wondering is there anybody who struggles like me. This year is over and i done 34 shot to goal and scored none. Belhanda's freekick is 15 but never scored ever. Well Falcao's penalty is 17 and scored 1/2 of them.  

But if you want to see my tactic;

Ekran Alıntısı.PNG

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tbh many people already complained in Steam review about it .. 100% of negative reviews had highlighted that .. may be some tactics can play a role .. but comn Kane will not miss 9 or 8 out of 10  1x1 regardless of formations 
whole AI need a re-think and massive investment more important even than features like club vision and GOD knows what else is coming .. I understand is important , but if ME AI is flawed ..what is the point of all efforts we are putting in game and those features ? more numbers of people working on AI are required .. 
I rather have one year with no feature but massive improvement on ME AI ... and I think most people will agree.. trying to add new features instead is the easy solution but not the right one  

Edited by shwanko

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11 minutes ago, kutlubey said:

But if you want to see my tactic;

Why did you choose all the settings you did?

What was the intended style of play and why did you think this combination of Roles, Duties and Team Instructions would work?

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The ME may be borked, bugged to heck, or just plain bad. Those are all viable opinions to have About any iteration of it. However there's Nothing inside the ME that keeps one from Performing. That said, dunno About Player PPMS, dunno About how many individual instructions are ticked, dunno About invidiual marking instructions ticked, or anything. But the above Looks like it may be encouraging all advanced Players to meet and greet Center of the Opposition box, where they hold Hands and make a picnic. If the UI would Display positioning arrows, that'd probably be a bit easier to see.

Admittedly, if so, the game would allow far worse stuff that would be guaranteed to make a side underperform. If this is ever to be a "realisitc" sim of Football manaagement, that all needed to go. What Kind of Manager suffers from obviously bad tactics? The AI can suffer from questionable choices too btw. If the Squad is that superior, it is highly likely that if you gave it all to the assistant, and holidayed, and came back, he'd perform better.

As of the penalties, no Penalty taker in-game should guarantee that you will never go on a streak of misses. This includes takers with high composure and hidden pressure too. Most of the best takers in football over dozensn of penalties hover around a ~85% conversion. Penalties simply are not a certain Goal. Sometimes the RNG may be brutal, yes, but Scripting Palermos to be impossible would be the end of Simulation.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/fc-barcelona/elfmeterstatistik/verein/131/plus/0?reldata=%262015  (if you went two Seasons Forward, you#d see that they actually had three subpar Seasons from the spot in a row -- and the real Barca exists only once. The virtual one as often as anybody starts a save). And Kane missing one on ones? Over a Variety of them if he'd long-term score 4 out of ten he'd already be considered as overperforming. 

Edited by Svenc

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18 minutes ago, kutlubey said:

Thank you for your help i really glad to you all. However, I have never ever dowloaded tactics until 2020 go nuts and it came out badly. I would like to do it on my own. It is just feedback to you guys. Only wondering is there anybody who struggles like me. This year is over and i done 34 shot to goal and scored none. Belhanda's freekick is 15 but never scored ever. Well Falcao's penalty is 17 and scored 1/2 of them.  

But if you want to see my tactic;

Ekran Alıntısı.PNG

Without even looking at anything else, if you have two inside forwards on attack and a DLF up front, why do you feel you need a 'No.10' in the AMC role? Also, I almost never use more than one playmaker. 

High defensive line on a positive mentality isn't really needed either, particularly where you are using wingbacks as part of a back four. A mezzala isn't going to give your defenders much protection, particularly when there's no DM in there to help. 

That's a tactic that will be very easy for the AI to counter IMO. With the players you have there, a few tweaks to your roles and instructions could make it a lot more defensively solid, and start reaping rewards. It's not a terrible tactic, it's just not very well balanced. 

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Check out bustthenet on YouTube or twitch. I did that and it helps you learn a lot about how to go about things on football manager. I enjoy playing the game a lot more from actually learning things. 

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I haven't played a huge amount of FM20 so far, but since FM19 and now FM20 I've found it easier to build/make changes to tactics, bring in new players and still have reasonable results. 

FM17 was a real grind and you had to gradually build your squad and performances by making small tweaks over a season or two to really get them to combine together and adapt to your way of playing in order to achieve results, it was very satisfying and made pre-season important.

I like the way you build tactics in FM19 and FM20 over FM17 but it feels that the impact of tactics has been reduced, if you build a tactic with the right formation and roles to suit your squad then you are in the game, you then massage the team instructions and mentality for each game and you can get descent results pretty quickly particularly if the fitness and morale levels are good.

Managing the morale and player rotation fitness/injuries seems to now be the most important. 

 

 

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These are my 3 main tactics.  The 5-1-2-2 Gegenpress is the one I use against Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc.  Works wonders.  They don't know what to do lol.

The other two I use on the other teams in the EPL.  The 4-1-4-1 is insane.  Scores alot of goals.

 

 

5122gegenpress.PNG

4141gegenpress.PNG

4123tactic.png

Edited by extremeskins04

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6 hours ago, kutlubey said:

Thank you for your help i really glad to you all. However, I have never ever dowloaded tactics until 2020 go nuts and it came out badly. I would like to do it on my own. It is just feedback to you guys. Only wondering is there anybody who struggles like me. This year is over and i done 34 shot to goal and scored none. Belhanda's freekick is 15 but never scored ever. Well Falcao's penalty is 17 and scored 1/2 of them.  

But if you want to see my tactic;

Ekran Alıntısı.PNG

I always pray that the AI will someday play like that.

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4 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I always pray that the AI will someday play like that.

It did worse in the not so distant past. (And actually, did similar here with PSG and as a result had a load of crapshots plus set pieces against the parking bus user -- still keeper MOM, mind). And let's be honest, it's picks can still be quite suspect. This will likely continue at least some for as Long as  a) the tactical Picking process is that "complicated" (having to consider so many factors, including Player PPMS) in particular considering the AIs highly dynamicism. As well as b) the game allows stuff like that despite claiming to simulate actual semi/pro mangement. :D

 

tldr; AI must be cheating. :p

Edited by Svenc

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Has there been any amendments to the ME since the original BETA came out? In my first save my bbm, and many from teams around me, were scoring more than a goal per game. Couple weeks later I'm doing a new saves and my bbm hasn't scored a single long shot... And the ME is feeling like the best ever?! Just confirmation bias (I've switched from real Madrid where I bought pogba, to Bournemouth where my bbm is Billing). If it was an update... 👏 👏 👏 

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23 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Has there been any amendments to the ME since the original BETA came out? In my first save my bbm, and many from teams around me, were scoring more than a goal per game. Couple weeks later I'm doing a new saves and my bbm hasn't scored a single long shot... And the ME is feeling like the best ever?! Just confirmation bias (I've switched from real Madrid where I bought pogba, to Bournemouth where my bbm is Billing). If it was an update... 👏 👏 👏 

My bbm hasn't scored yet in my Bayern save where I rotate Tolisso and Goretzka. I also bought Pogba but play him more advanced.

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6 minutes ago, craiigman said:

My bbm hasn't scored yet in my Bayern save where I rotate Tolisso and Goretzka. I also bought Pogba but play him more advanced.

That's good to know, as Bayern you are probably facing similar opposition tactics/mentality as I was with Madrid. I wondered if it was just a case of with Bournemouth having more space to attack so not needing long shots. 

The only major issue I'm seeing now is the really bad cross/shot when players get to the byline and just punt it out. I can live with that compare to some of the big issues we've had. Seeing some lovely passing moves, and on assist location through balls are more than double the next type for me (into February) 

Edited by westy8chimp

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38 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Has there been any amendments to the ME since the original BETA came out? In my first save my bbm, and many from teams around me, were scoring more than a goal per game. Couple weeks later I'm doing a new saves and my bbm hasn't scored a single long shot... And the ME is feeling like the best ever?! Just confirmation bias (I've switched from real Madrid where I bought pogba, to Bournemouth where my bbm is Billing). If it was an update... 👏 👏 👏 

My BBM actually scored 8 out of 22 games this season, quite a few of them from those apparently nonexisting cutbacks. :p

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9 ore fa, Rashidi ha scritto:

I always pray that the AI will someday play like that.

But you have to concede the TC/UI doesn't say a damn thing to the user about how not-even-remotely-good that formation is...

And frankly at face value there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it. Sure, 2 playmakers, one of which as AMC may feel redundat, and two IFs are likely a fair explaination for the "player shoots instead of passing" annoyance, but it looks like a perfectly viable and "normal" formation.

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1 minute ago, RBKalle said:

But you have to concede the TC/UI doesn't say a damn thing to the user about how not-even-remotely-good that formation is...

I always felt that this is where an Assistant Manager should help more in the game. Nothing too drastic, but more of a heads up in extreme cases.

You create a tactic and either receive feedback/advice about any contradictions, or simply any positional clashes are highlighted and brought to your attention. Giving you the option of keeping or amending.

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Lost 1-0 in my debut premier division game, a scrappy away game against Arsenal while managing Brentford where we kept them at 1 goal (my keeper got a 9 in rating), and the board have it as 'notable critisism'.

That's a bit harsh for my first game in the top division, no?

871096944_ManagingBrenftord.thumb.png.d239acca98a6e974b385917859a55497.png

They should rather have it as a highlight that I managed to only lose by 1 goal, my striker even had a sitter in overtime that could have equalized.

 

Edited by Rayban_DK
put in more context

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb Rayban_DK:

Lost 1-0 in my debut premier division game, a scrappy away game against Arsenal while managing Brentford where we kept them at 1 goal (my keeper got a 9 in rating), and the board have it as 'notable critisism'.

That's a bit harsh for my first game in the top division, no?

871096944_ManagingBrenftord.thumb.png.d239acca98a6e974b385917859a55497.png

They should rather have it as a highlight that I managed to only lose by 1 goal, my striker even had a sitter in overtime that could have equalized.

 

This is something for the bugs forum.

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57 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

But you have to concede the TC/UI doesn't say a damn thing to the user about how not-even-remotely-good that formation is...

And frankly at face value there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it. Sure, 2 playmakers, one of which as AMC may feel redundat, and two IFs are likely a fair explaination for the "player shoots instead of passing" annoyance, but it looks like a perfectly viable and "normal" formation.

NOtationially yes. If the UI would introduce positioning arrows though and/ or visualize the attacking Transition in General one may see what's so iffy About it.

As argued though, imo the tactical Gameplay Long-term shouldn't be About avoiding "Basic mistakes". Everybody is applying as a Manager here (AI included).  As a side effect of that, SI could Focus Hunting the actually "issues" down too -- their AI isn't without iffy picks either on the Occasion. Whether SI see it the same way I dunno. Ten years back they were on Occasion really harsh on this. User logged in to post how he struggled, an upon enquiring he made his Team camp all Deep, all the while encouraging every Player to close down all over the pitch at the same time? "Git good."

It's clear that they view the game as a "learning Simulation". HOwever, Managers don't learn the most Basic of Things first day on the Job. As teaching Players "Team Sports Basics 101" is probably an impossible Task, the UI would probably need to Limit the Input of Players to that.

Edited by Svenc

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