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Strikers underperforming across the league

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Main starting strikers for top clubs. Showing difference from the older Beta ME in 23/24 to combination of the newer Beta and release date ME in 24/25.

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23 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Main starting strikers for top clubs. Showing difference from the older Beta ME in 23/24 to combination of the newer Beta and release date ME in 24/25.

Untitled.png

Thanks for the feedback. However, this is not what we are seeing in our internal tests. 

Where are the goals coming from for these top teams if the strikers aren't scoring?

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7 minutes ago, CJ Ramson said:

Thanks for the feedback. However, this is not what we are seeing in our internal tests. 

Where are the goals coming from for these top teams if the strikers aren't scoring?

I definitely feel like my strikers are poor, but I'm still experimenting with formations and players.

Looking at various highlights across different teams, there's a lot of penalties, set pieces, and long range shots from midfielders making up the vast majority of goals. And a lot of the goals that the strikers do score are rebounds.

I don't know how that lines up with 'real life' in terms of percentages, but gut feel from playing the game the ratio does feel a bit off.

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12 minutes ago, Rednitro said:

I just posted this in another topic.

I've seen that center strikers who play in center slot are being ignored and not recieving any passing. Just slap in a big team, take a tactic with 1 striker, play a few games and watch.

The whole team gets 50-90 passes, striker 7.The only time a striker scores is mainly from corners or crossings, and then its mostly even a deflected ball or a duel he won with a taclke.

Might explain why other players are taking imposible shots and never pass to the striker.

This is something we would need PKM's for, because again it does not match with our internal testing (or some external comments) - Some more context such as striker roles being used and Team Instructions would be useful too. Recommend you start a new thread with timed examples.

12 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

I definitely feel like my strikers are poor, but I'm still experimenting with formations and players.

Looking at various highlights across different teams, there's a lot of penalties, set pieces, and long range shots from midfielders making up the vast majority of goals. And a lot of the goals that the strikers do score are rebounds.

I don't know how that lines up with 'real life' in terms of percentages, but gut feel from playing the game the ratio does feel a bit off.

This isn't something we're seeing internally or widely reported. However, we will continue to monitor goal scorers and variation especially further into the future as people are already quite deep into saves.

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Breakdown of my goals this season are:

Over 11 Prem Games:
Set Piece: 9
Penalty: 3
Rebound: 2
Midfielder Long shot: 8
Open play: 4 (of which 2 from a striker)

I don't have "play for set piece" as part of tactics, and am playing a 4-4-2 with 2 DMs.

One of my strikers has no goals in 11 games, the other has 7, but only 2 of them are from open play that weren't tapping in a spilled save.

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13 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

Breakdown of my goals this season are:

Over 11 Prem Games:
Set Piece: 9
Penalty: 3
Rebound: 2
Midfielder Long shot: 8
Open play: 4 (of which 2 from a striker)

I don't have "play for set piece" as part of tactics, and am playing a 4-4-2 with 2 DMs.

One of my strikers has no goals in 11 games, the other has 7, but only 2 of them are from open play that weren't tapping in a spilled save.

Thanks for the information. If you could upload a couple PKM's and post / PM me your team instructions we could look further into this.

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Quote

I've seen that center strikers who play in center slot are being ignored and not recieving any passing. Just slap in a big team, take a tactic with 1 striker, play a few games and watch.

The whole team gets 50-90 passes, striker 7.The only time a striker scores is mainly from corners or crossings, and then its mostly even a deflected ball or a duel he won with a taclke.

Might explain why other players are taking imposible shots and never pass to the striker.

 

Added 2 files.

In the first match untill minute 34 im using my center striker on a center position. I then come up with the idea to switch him to the left forward position.

The diference aint huge but suddenly i see him moving around looking for space! Small difference.

2nd match i kept him in the left forward slot, and the difference is quit big. For the first time i see him recieving passes.

First match, untill minute 34 in central foward slot.

2D0EC3EB28FBD4A58E3EAA3F209B6100A8817731

After 34 minute switched to left forward position

EA6AC6C7736C8583AE76BA8A6BDCA4133DC2098D

2nd match strikers played 90 minutes in left foward slot

36CA6FDF7E79174AE5824B197868EE5A7770C366

Last screenshot shows the difference, 22 passes, in 73 minutes.

Hope you can do something with these files.

Ajax - RSC Anderlecht.pkm Ajax - Shakhtar.pkm

Edited by Rednitro

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18 minutes ago, Pekz0r said:

I am definitely experiencing this as well, and I'm pretty sure that a big part of the reason is the issue where wide players never passes when they get into the penalty area. I see my striker in a very good position when my skilled inside forwards break though on the flank. He should get at least one tap in goal every game if the IF's would just pas the ball instead of taking shorts from impossible angles. 

Yah it seems like many people have voiced their displeasure with both wingbacks/fullbacks taking a lot more shots/getting more goals and wingers/wide players in general just shooting at an extremely tight angle when given the opportunity to cross it to the striker for an easy tap in.

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2 hours ago, Rednitro said:

 

Added 2 files.

In the first match untill minute 34 im using my center striker on a center position. I then come up with the idea to switch him to the left forward position.

The diference aint huge but suddenly i see him moving around looking for space! Small difference.

2nd match i kept him in the left forward slot, and the difference is quit big. For the first time i see him recieving passes.

First match, untill minute 34 in central foward slot.

Great observation! I tried the same thing too after my central striker (best player in the team) has scored 4 goals (penalties execluded) in 38 games. And he scored 2 nice goals in the first game and was active and got passes from rest of the team. This must clearly get a hotfix ASAP.

Edited by The tree that cuts down woodcutters

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2 hours ago, CaptainPlanet said:

I'm having the same problems since the patch no matter what tactic I do or which world class striker I use :(

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A change to direct passing seems to have made a massive difference and is finally seeing my strikers scoring. Although generally the types of chances (visually) are very similar.

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Ever since Beta got patched my strikers perform awful 

Haaland went 4th season in from 19goals in 32 games to 3 in 20 Haaland should be coming into his prime not burning out

My other striker Osimhen only 1 goal in 14 games!

ture.PNG

apture.PNG

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On 20/11/2019 at 18:34, CJ Ramson said:

Thanks for the feedback. However, this is not what we are seeing in our internal tests. 

Where are the goals coming from for these top teams if the strikers aren't scoring?

How and what do you test? How much do you test big teams vs underdogs as the single biggest problem I have found since FM19 post BETA is that strikers do not play well v packed, deep lying defences? They just stand there and don't make attempts to create space

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How do we log PKMs for this? How do we possibly pick out timestamps? Is it related to striker supply & movement? I can have a go but it's not all that easy 

I've ran a full detail holiday for a season, top scorers for the Premier League were Jordan Ayew & Aquero with 18 goals a piece, 31 games for Ayew & 34 for Aguero with 7 penalties scored

Kane scored 15, Abraham 10, Vardy 9, Sterling 5, Salah 5, all in 30 games plus 

 

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

How do we log PKMs for this? How do we possibly pick out timestamps? Is it related to striker supply & movement? I can have a go but it's not all that easy 

I've ran a full detail holiday for a season, top scorers for the Premier League were Jordan Ayew & Aquero with 18 goals a piece, 31 games for Ayew & 34 for Aguero with 7 penalties scored

Kane scored 15, Abraham 10, Vardy 9, Sterling 5, Salah 5, all in 30 games plus 

 

18 in itself isn't that bad and has actually won top scorer a couple of times in the 90s but it just seems to be underperfomance across the board and in saying that those 18 goals are propped by 7 penalties, which is quite a high ratio. 

I suspect it really ties into the poor decisions and lack of meaningful passing into central areas being made by wide players who are a key source of centre forward chances, coupled with the already well known issues surrounding lack of composure. 

 

Edited by djchapsticks

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16 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

For me, it's almost exclusively my left winger. 

My main centre forward went from 18 goals in 24 starts last season and  was on 5 in 5 games in the Europa League qualifiers and 2 in 3 games in the league the following season. Once the full release dropped, I saved my game, updated and restarted. Since doing so, the same player, with the exact same tactic has only managed 4 in 21 league games. Its like described above, that the player in that position just seemingly stops working. 

What role and formation was the striker playing in?

 

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

How do we log PKMs for this? How do we possibly pick out timestamps? Is it related to striker supply & movement? I can have a go but it's not all that easy 

I've ran a full detail holiday for a season, top scorers for the Premier League were Jordan Ayew & Aquero with 18 goals a piece, 31 games for Ayew & 34 for Aguero with 7 penalties scored

Kane scored 15, Abraham 10, Vardy 9, Sterling 5, Salah 5, all in 30 games plus 

 

Any matches where the striker is being ignored or not receiving passes you'd expect.

As this doesn't match our internal testing any PKM, even without timestamps could give an insight to what could be going wrong.

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30 minutes ago, CJ Ramson said:

What role and formation was the striker playing in?

Was the right centre forward playing in a 442 (technically 424 as the wide men were playing as wingers). 

Role was simply 'advanced forward', his regular partner at LCF was a role of deep lying forward and although not THAT prolific at 5 in 16 starts, wasn't quite as ineffective. 

The season prior, both players had 18 in 24 starts (advanced forward) and 15 in 28 (deep lying forward) using the same tactic in the beta. 

Overall mentality was switching between balanced and positive. 

Edited by djchapsticks

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58 minutes ago, CJ Ramson said:

Any matches where the striker is being ignored or not receiving passes you'd expect.

As this doesn't match our internal testing any PKM, even without timestamps could give an insight to what could be going wrong.

Right oh, I'll run it again & have a look through some games & see what I can find 

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30 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Was the right centre forward playing in a 442 (technically 424 as the wide men were playing as wingers). 

Role was simply 'advanced forward', his regular partner at LCF was a role of deep lying forward and although not THAT prolific at 5 in 16 starts, wasn't quite as ineffective. 

The season prior, both players had 18 in 24 starts (advanced forward) and 15 in 28 (deep lying forward) using the same tactic in the beta. 

Overall mentality was switching between balanced and positive. 

Thanks for the information, we will look further into this.

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2 hours ago, CJ Ramson said:

Thanks for the information, we will look further into this.

Cheers CJ. Appreciate that it's a bloody hard thing to get things as close to perfect as possible and there will always be dissenting non-constructive voices that come with that. 

Very refreshing that SI team members actively engage with their player base and are always looking on feedback to fix any issues. 

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On 20/11/2019 at 15:47, The tree that cuts down woodcutters said:

Great observation! I tried the same thing too after my central striker (best player in the team) has scored 4 goals (penalties execluded) in 38 games. And he scored 2 nice goals in the first game and was active and got passes from rest of the team. This must clearly get a hotfix ASAP.

The "left striker position" for a lone striker thing worked for me too! End of goal drought, Striker looking for spaces to run, moreover my team performed mutch better, midfielders try through-balls, the IF makes less silly side netting goal attempts. Does this need a seperate thread?

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Fresh holiday save, some cherry picked games where strikers have underperformed:

Tottenham vs Everton - Kane has 5 shots, none goal scoring chances, scores 0. Goals from Walker-Peters & Eric Dier 

Man City vs Wolves - Aguero scores, a long ranger from outside the box, his only shot 

Wolves vs Bournemouth - Odd game, 5 goals, 3 from fullbacks . King scores from a punt over the defence

Man City vs Walford - One for Miles, City 0-1 Watford, DCMR scores the winner

Tottenham vs Chelsea - 4 league games in & Kane still hasn't scored 

Man City vs Bournemouth - Strikers for both teams anonymous, Rodri with 5 key passes

Man U vs Watford - 5-0 Man U, Martial up top doesn't have a sniff 

Tottenham vs Liverpool - Huge game, 1-1 two centre mids get the goals, Kane has one shot, Mane, 12

Man U vs Burnley - Deulofeu up front for Man U has 2 shots, Pogba 7, McTominay 6, 1-0 Maguire  

Liverpool vs Wolves - 6-1 No striker scores 

Brighton vs Southampton - 2-1 - 3 strikers on the pitch manage 2 shots between them

Tottenham vs Watford - 3-0 Spurs, Kane does nothing 6.6, the 'keeper rates higher than he does

Newcastle vs Everton - 4-3, barn burner, 1 striker goal

Man U vs Chelsea - Not a striker shot on target 

Chelsea vs Man City - 2 striker shots 

Tottenham vs Bournemouth - 5-2 King with the only striker goal 

Chelsea vs Man City - 1-1 The strikers don't turn up 

Brighton vs Norwich - Norwich 4-0, not a shot from Pukki nor Maupay 

Crystal Palace vs Man City - 1-4, Zaha scores from a punt over the defence, Aguero scores a nice goal then the other 3 City goals come from corners 

Leicester vs Arsenal - 3-2, 4 of the goals from corners, one striker scores from one of the corners

I'm at December 31st at this point, Aguero is the top goal scorer with 17 in 20 with 6 from the penalty spot 

Seb Haller with 13 in 16

Zaha with 12 in 16 

Salah with 11 in 18

Martial with 11 in 20

Vardy on 10, Ings on 8, Kane with 7, Lacazette 7, Abraham with 6 

Is this the right kind of thing?

Man City v Wolves.pkm Tottenham v Everton.pkm Wolves v Bournemouth.pkm Man City v Watford.pkm Tottenham v Chelsea.pkm Man City v Bournemouth.pkm Man Utd v Watford.pkm Tottenham v Liverpool.pkm Man Utd v Burnley.pkm Liverpool v Wolves.pkm Brighton v Southampton.pkm Tottenham v Watford.pkm Newcastle v Everton.pkm Man Utd v Chelsea.pkm Chelsea v Man City.pkm Tottenham v Bournemouth.pkm Chelsea v Man City.pkm Brighton v Norwich.pkm Crystal Palace v Man City.pkm Leicester v Arsenal.pkm

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Hope this gets fixed soon because its really game breaking. Doing a game atm and i try to play 4-1-2-3-1, but with the central striker in center slot its just awefull.

Moment you swap him to left or right its better.

But just as worse, maybe even worse are wingers not giving crossings and shooting from impossible angles. Its such a big factor for a striker when wingers play like this.

The only thing that works atm is setting up a tactic with long shots.

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Just did a little tot up comparing the Premier League in real life against the holiday save I ran

It's a bit crude & I won't claim it's 100% accurate as it was me running through results & adding them up & I could only be bothered to do the first 6 rounds of the season :D

This is just counting strikers, so the likes of Mane & Salah count as wide players unless Who Scored says so for example, Mane played centre forward in one game where Firmhino didn't play

Untitled.thumb.png.e8ae000b0077c6a6d59960a88a187659.png

As you'll see, striker scoring rates in FM are some way behind according to that  

 

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3 hours ago, CaptainPlanet said:

I’m trying not to be too dramatic about it, but it really does detract from the fun of the game for me enough that I’m probably going to stop until a patch.  

I’m still winning, I’m storming the league, I’m scoring well. But my strikers are just completely ineffective in open play no matter what formation or instructions I give them and the frustration about it is getting to me!

Yah I honestly think the lack of success from strikers directly correlate with the problems of wide wingers/inverted wingers/IFs refusing to square the ball into the box and instead dribbling for the entire pitch and firing it into the side netting or just into narnia. I've had success playing 4-2-4 4-4-2 whatever you would like to call it with 2 inverted wingers and 2 strikers. The goals from the strikers are mostly from deep through balls from the midfield, rebounded shots and almost never from a cross from either the fullback or my wide players. That being said, I play with Barcelona so obviously this kind of tactic cannot work with a majority of the teams as your defense does get cut open by the better sides and the midfielders from Barcelona have extremely high vision and passing.  I really wish they would fix this issue or give us an update as to the progress of a fix for this issue. There are other threads with this specific topic some a week old. 

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3 hours ago, CaptainPlanet said:

I’m trying not to be too dramatic about it, but it really does detract from the fun of the game for me enough that I’m probably going to stop until a patch.  

I’m still winning, I’m storming the league, I’m scoring well. But my strikers are just completely ineffective in open play no matter what formation or instructions I give them and the frustration about it is getting to me!

I've stopped playing as the football is unresponsive dull and boring plus this is destroying my strikers legacy when you see him go from a 20 odd a season striker to the dizzy heights of 9 goals in 38 games!

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Been saying this for years. Strikers and even wide forwards are wasted in the game. I’ve included PKM’s where my midfielders have 160 and 152 passes each, and striker has sub 15. Most shots come from midfielders so the best attacking players will always underperform. 

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06:52 - How is possible to miss that?
20:35 - One on one with the keeper, shoots wide.
26:40 - Pepe misses twice hits the post twice. Second chance is on empty goal but cant hit it.
42:11 - Chance for the AI, 1 on 1 with the keeper, goes byline shoots wide.
85:03 - Good chance, shoots wide.
86:11 - AI full back goes byline and shoots from weird angle.
Finishing is awful in currennt ME. There are more examples in this pkm where full backs just shoot and dont pass the ball but it is for another thread.

 

Wolverhampton Wanderers v Arsenal.pkm

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I'm having this too, my star player a pressing forward (playing with two AM wingers behind him, with instructions to use the flanks and overlapping FBs) goes from 10 goals in 10 games pre patch, to not scoring in 10+ games since. Annoying thing was I came to this from FM2016, and I hated how in that that wide players *never* crossed for a tap in, always went for goal instead. In the FM2020 beta this was actually better, I saw that happen a few times and was stoked. Since full release this ME is broken though, my wingers are scoring more themselves, but nothing from striker.

Edited by battles_atlas

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Purely messing around here trying to note striker movement & ignorance, it's a create a club save with forward players with great mentals, Pep as the Ass Man is in charge here

I'm holidaying the first 6 months & just stopped to watch this result

19:56 great team goal: Thomas Muller (no. 12) up front, starts the move, plays out to Reese James who plays into Aspas. Muller at this point has moved forward to the centre backs. The pass to Aspas causes a CB to close him down with Muller peeling off & free,  Aspas plays the ball to Costa (LW) who's marked, he fires his shot into the marker, play recycles & ends up with Koke, who scores   

30:14 Alberto goal: from that point up to the goal, Muller just hangs with the centre backs, either he is moving & they're tracking him or he's just following them. Either way, he keeps them occupied for Alberto to score   

54:18 Costa goal: could be great marking by the centre backs, Costa cuts in from wide, the CB's run back toward goal & Muller just follows them, if he stops or steps off he's free in the box or, if he is marked, that would at least keep the CB's from heading back toward goal  

Just messing about v Everton.pkm

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Please guys ME is broken when NOBODY is passing to the Striker.

The recent improvements to match engine are great but this is just not realistic whatsoever.

How often are people seeing their striker score a poor match rating?  Look at his stats, he NEVER gets the ball.

PKM included... But please just look at the pass map there. Shows all you need to see.

Can other users provide pass maps also so to draw Devs attention to this blatant and game destroying issue.

 

 

Manchester United v Atlético de Madrid.pkm60053142_Screenshot2019-11-26at21_21_49.thumb.png.9db9ebdfd3a87b627063f74c9c1e0fb0.png

 

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This post is to demonstrate two points. Last one wasn't a one off. This is the following game and when you play a player in WF positions with Attack duty instead of Support they are just as useless as forwards.  They don't get passed to.  So not just real players but AI will always struggle to get good performances from these players because they simply don't get the ball. If they did maybe we would finally see the attacking stats in real life replicated in the game.

A question to the devs - Do you ever see stats like Hazards last year replicated in the game? A WF with almost 20 goals and 20 assists? I never ever see that because these players are simply ignored by midfielders and defenders In the game.

Look at James´s touches when put at ML rather than AML.

I repeat AM´s and FW are irrelevant with the game as it is.

Screenshot 2019-11-26 at 22.07.19.png

Screenshot 2019-11-26 at 22.14.46.png

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On 21/11/2019 at 02:51, FMLegend1983 said:

I'm having the same problems since the patch no matter what tactic I do or which world class striker I use :(

 

On 22/11/2019 at 15:43, Johnny Ace said:

How do we log PKMs for this? How do we possibly pick out timestamps? Is it related to striker supply & movement? I can have a go but it's not all that easy 

I've ran a full detail holiday for a season, top scorers for the Premier League were Jordan Ayew & Aquero with 18 goals a piece, 31 games for Ayew & 34 for Aguero with 7 penalties scored

Kane scored 15, Abraham 10, Vardy 9, Sterling 5, Salah 5, all in 30 games plus 

 

I can’t continue to play the game until this is fixed. It kills it. Although I really feel its kit just a central striker issue, it’s also issue for world class goal scoring wide forwards especially on attack duty. They simply can’t perform with ME as it is. If devs are saying they are seeing different results in there tests then pls show. 
 

Look at sterling’s goal stars and we are only in November in real life. Or Lewandowski. These types of performances are simply impossible in the game right now. 
 

 

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61% posession

16 shots

Striker gets 10 passes and one shot.  The players we want to shoot are our forwards and wide forwards.  There is no way a team should have 16 shots and the striker only have one of them. They need to be more involved. Rashford also only had 2 shots and one was a penalty.

Is there any indication that this is being looked at?  I have been making this point since day one of BETA and still hasn't been fixed.

 

 

 

1178970823_Screenshot2019-11-27at10_59_38.thumb.png.69be2e13aa1abaea31d1bec7d4cf2f3e.png            962062134_Screenshot2019-11-27at11_00_12.thumb.png.ee8521ef614b72ef0dd5fd3b04a68203.png

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PKMs and what your tactics and PI are too, help identify particular roles or instructions causing problems.

I've figured out a work around the ME in my tactics and my strikers are now doing fine, so there does seem to be an issue with certain setups more than globally.

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32 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

They need PKM's to look at @dannyse18 , screenshots mean squat here

I´ve uploaded tonnes of PKM´s on other threads, hasn't even registered.  What I am trying to do with the screenshots is demonstrate  a blatant and obvious issue - Attacking players regardless of the tactics are not being involved in the game.

I also think its an issue that we are having to ¨work around¨ ME.  AI can't, so we find exploits and game becomes ridiculously easy, which is another one of my biggest disappointments with the last two editions.

 

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Simluated 2 seasons with top 5 leagues - and all I got was 6 players with more than 20 goals in the first season (Messi had 13 and Kane 12 as an example). Second season it was even worse with only 4 players scoring more than 20 goals, Lewandowski best with 25. Very strange that this is not the case when you reproduce.

 

Just sat the game on holiday - had all leagues loaded from top 5 nations.

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@CJ Ramson

Seems like you and your team are at least listening or trying to work on this, so thank you!

However I don't understand why PKMs are necessary for exploring the issue. This is a global tactical issue -- that is most pronounced when playing with a single striker. In my save it appears in every AI vs AI game where someone is using a lone striker tactic. I don't pretend to understand your process for digging into these things under the hood, but couldn't you just open any game or save at all and look at a game in which a team uses one striker?

My advice on how to locate the problem. Thanks!

 

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On 27/11/2019 at 05:20, CaptainPlanet said:

PKMs and what your tactics and PI are too, help identify particular roles or instructions causing problems.

I've figured out a work around the ME in my tactics and my strikers are now doing fine, so there does seem to be an issue with certain setups more than globally.

@CaptainPlanet

What was the tactical workaround you found? Would love one. I even tried going strikerless with an AMC replicating my striker. Same deal.

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3 hours ago, acmilano112000 said:

@CaptainPlanet

What was the tactical workaround you found? Would love one. I even tried going strikerless with an AMC replicating my striker. Same deal.

Work arounds are not the answer. I don’t want my strikers scoring freely whilst AI has world class forwards scoring in the single digits. 
 

it also concerns me how few of you are also drawing attention to lack of productivity from wide forwards. Over last few they are not central strikers have been either the most or among the most prolific players in Europe. Think Salah, Mane, Sterlin, Messi, Mbappe, CR7. 
 

Its the lack of space in behind defences that’s the issue. Only time we see these players get behind is from long balls over the top. We don’t see midfielders or creative midfielders passing down channels into the box or into space. 
 

I personally would be happy if SI scrapped the match engine, went back to the old school 2D graphics - The graphics they use to demonstrate how a tactic should work on the create a tactic screen. The moves on that screen are NEVER EVER replicated in ME.

 

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