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had so much fun with this fm at the beginning, but for now its just frustrating.

 

started a new safe with gladbach and i can set what i want my defender just looking how the long balls are flying over them. Also my striker cant score, plea made only 1 goal in 15 games, missed like 30 or even more 1on1s. 

If i play with deep defense line same **** happen as i play with full offensive press, defenders are just doing nothing.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

It is not really surprising at all that the ME needs a few more months of testing and polishing with each new version, compared to the other areas of the game. In all the other areas, there are a set number of possible user inputs and outputs, and the fact that the rest of the game is simply fantastic proves that SI has some great coders that are working on this game. ME is a different case, because it has to deal with basically infinite amount of user inputs, and that's why SI needs the ME to be played and tested by hundreds of thousands of people to reveal some of it's weaknesses and hidden anomalies. And then the balancing dance begins. It is really up to you if you want to be a part of that process, or just wait until March to test the final version and make a decision based on that. That process can be very frustrating sometimes, and depending on your personality it may be better to avoid it.

What I don’t understand is why do SI need to create a new ME every edition? Why not update the existing one every year. Surely that would significantly decrease the amount of ME issues?

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Just now, the_gers_fan said:

What I don’t understand is why do SI need to create a new ME every edition? Why not update the existing one every year. Surely that would significantly decrease the amount of ME issues?

You'd think but that's thinking way too simple. There's rule changes that need to be implemented each season & technology evolves season after season to improve the ME. Remember what's been said around here countless times, 1 small change in the ME can have huge knockon effects so any changes that are made cause imbalances elsewhere that need to be sorted  

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25 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

ME is a different case, because it has to deal with basically infinite amount of user inputs, and that's why SI needs the ME to be played and tested by hundreds of thousands of people to reveal some of it's weaknesses and hidden anomalies.

How many people report ME issues here? Couple of dozens? Plus their testing team, it's closer to hundred then thousand hundreds.

And most of bigger issues were spoted right awey.

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Really loving the game this year. The 1v1 misses are annoying as hell though. My team is playing brilliantly and create some sexy chances for my world class strikers to miss but the build up looks phenomenal on this ME. Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying the experience this year. 

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54 minuti fa, the_gers_fan ha scritto:

What I don’t understand is why do SI need to create a new ME every edition? Why not update the existing one every year.

Actually, this is what  happens.

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14 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

So far in my season, out of the 31 assists for my team, only 4 were made from my own half. Conceded 13 assists, and 3 of those were from my opponent's half. So, it is true that the long ball situation doesn't happen with every setup.

It wouldn't surprise me if almost all of the more popular downloads are of this ilk, either deliberately or by accident exploiting the "long balls". The aforementioned tactic actually has "pass shorter" ticked, however, just looking at the formation and role duty structure+ rest of instructions it's easy to see how added long balls may be pumped all match regardless (which we likely agree on, should be better defended).

That said, it would be actually more interesting to look at the "Key passes" before a shot, rather than the assists. Assists are always going to fluctuate by random Chance, as an assist only is an assist if the sequence is actually to be a goal. Lots of random variance when it comes to goals. Lots lof "Long key passes" meanwhile would tell much more about the General play transpiring (the game doesn't have stats like that mind). That may be just 4 assists from Deep/within the own half for your side, but that wouldn't say much how many of those balls are actually played, and leading to shots. Still a huge difference to the download/exploity stuff, ditto AI averages.

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2 hours ago, Mitja said:

How many people report ME issues here? Couple of dozens? Plus their testing team, it's closer to hundred then thousand hundreds.

And most of bigger issues were spoted right awey.

That's a good point. But at the end of the day, there are always some important issues about each ME brought up to SI's attention here, vs. SI testing team finding them before. So, whether you like it or not, you become part of the (unpaid) testing team before the final product is released in March every year. I am not criticizing or defending SI here, just trying to show that it is what it is, and this is how it works for them.

The only time it did not work in my opinion, is the last 2 versions, which is a concern for me. Before those, the ME always got significantly better with the March update. Let's see what will happen in FM20.

Edited by bleventozturk
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6 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

That's a good point. But at the end of the day, there are always some important issues about each ME brought up to SI's attention here, vs. SI testing team finding them before. So, whether you like it or not, you become part of the (unpaid) testing team before the final product is released in March every year. I am not criticizing or defending SI here, just trying to show that it is what it is, and this is how it works for them.

The only time it did not work in my opinion, is the last 2 versions, which is a concern for me. Before those, the ME always got significantly better with the March update. Let's see what will happen in FM20.

But u are defending. Why should we accept it then. You even say that for now 2.5 years you have been paying them money to be tester...? I dont mind tweaks and bugs, I know that these things happen everywhere( been tester). But there is somewhat quality that is expected when you buy something that is released as ready product. 

I usually also dont go with the rants etc I have enjoyed most of the version and worked around issues , but never had i stopped playing like now.

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On 23/12/2019 at 18:19, Neil Brock said:

This thread is for feedback on Football Manager 2020 ONLY.

For feedback on anything else to do with Sports Interactive or the moderating team, please email forums@sigames.com where we will respond as and when appropriate. 

Any post in this thread which is not feedback in regards to FM20 from this point on will be removed. Thanks. 

Let's get back on topic please. 

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16 minutes ago, saihtam said:

But u are defending. Why should we accept it then. You even say that for now 2.5 years you have been paying them money to be tester...? I dont mind tweaks and bugs, I know that these things happen everywhere( been tester). But there is somewhat quality that is expected when you buy something that is released as ready product. 

I usually also dont go with the rants etc I have enjoyed most of the version and worked around issues , but never had i stopped playing like now.

Lol no I am not defending. I actually personally do not like at all how this is set up, and my posts got deleted so many times in the past when I raised my concern about how they work :) I am just saying that it is still your choice to but the game in November or March, or not buy at all. 

I used to be a volunteer tester many years ago, when I had more time. I did not like the experience because it was not rewarding enough imo, where I ended up spending hundreds of hours, unpaid, and at the end so few of the bugs that I found were got even looked at, let alone getting fixed. I stopped doing that after I got kids, my own company, and my time got more valuable. I still buy most versions, when they look promising, just to check it out, or even just to support SI since they keep producing my favorite game every year, I don't want them to stop :)

Let's go back to the topic though mate. I was just trying to make a point about why fixing ME is not similar at all to fixing other parts of the game.

Edited by bleventozturk
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19 minutes ago, saihtam said:

But there is somewhat quality that is expected when you buy something that is released as ready product. 

 

Quality is there to be honest. Other than the ME, it is a fantastic game! Which again bring me to my point about the ME part being very different than the rest f the game in nature.

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Feedback about too many long balls vs too few short through balls:

It was already pointed out many times that one of the reasons for too many successful long balls is the defenders reacting too slow to the long balls in the air. I just noticed something else though: Too many of them are attempted, and they seem to be triggered by the forwards starting a forward run before even the ball is played. Strikers in more attacking roles and attacking setups start those runs more often, which then increases the frequency of those long balls to unrealistic numbers. On contrary, when a midfielder has the ball closer to opponent's box, I see a significantly less movement (attempt) from the forwards, even though essentially that's a better time to do it because the pass that needs to be made is a shorter one, and should have a higher probability of success. In FM19 for example forwards were extremely static, and ball was always played to wider areas in the final 1/3rd. So, it always start with the striker movement that triggers the passes. In this case, I see A LOT of movement from the more attacking forwards when the ball is in your own half, so if maybe the defenders react to those runs much faster, those long balls won't be attempted that often? And again, on the contrary, there should be more of those runs (attempts) from forwards when your midfielders have the ball closer to the opponent's box.

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Has anyone experienced something like this? No one has got back to him about it, @themadsheep2001 thought id tag you as you usually direct it towards the SI. They havent said anything on the page but it's likely been seen. 

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21 minutes ago, BigV said:

Has anyone experienced something like this? No one has got back to him about it, @themadsheep2001 thought id tag you as you usually direct it towards the SI. They havent said anything on the page but it's likely been seen. 

@Seb Wassellcould you have someone take a look at this, and drop a reply if possible, cheers: 

 

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There's difference in terms of chances created during the game playing with key highlights and extended highlights?

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If SI can find a way to reduce those long balls leading to 1on1's that many are seeing WITHOUT taking the central play away, this will be the best ME ever, by far. The more I play, the more I like it (especially since I do not experience the long ball issue with several setups that I've been using), unlike in FM 19 where the more I played the more dull/unplayable it became (I quit playing that game after less than 1.5 seasons). Some of the beautiful central play came back with this ME. 

Edited by bleventozturk
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Just now, bleventozturk said:

If SI can find a way to reduce those long balls leading to 1on1's WITHOUT taking the central play away, this will be the best ME ever, by far. The more I play, the more I like it (especially since I do not experience the long ball issue with several setups that I've been using), unlike in FM 19 where the more I played the more dull/unplayable it became (I quit playing that game after less than 1.5 seasons). Some of the beautiful central play came back with this ME. 

You should post those tactics as a late Christmas gift to the community. :lol: You'd provide a lot of relief to many on here that are frustrated by that issue. 

Personally, I've managed to limit it to a fair degree but when it comes its usually devastating (both ways) and seeing world class defenders in zombie mode while average forwards find 10 yards of space is immersion killing even if you still win. For me at least.

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11 minutes ago, janrzm said:

You should post those tactics as a late Christmas gift to the community. :lol: You'd provide a lot of relief to many on here that are frustrated by that issue. 

Personally, I've managed to limit it to a fair degree but when it comes its usually devastating (both ways) and seeing world class defenders in zombie mode while average forwards find 10 yards of space is immersion killing even if you still win. For me at least.

Nothing special really. My mostly used setup is a simple 4-3-3, which is a slightly tweaked version of the Control possession preset tactic in the tactics menu. I kept most of the roles the same even.

WB(s) - CD (d) - CD (d) - WB (s)

BWM (d)

CM (s) - AP (s)

IW (a) - W (a)

DLF (s)

Mentality: balanced (cycle between positive and cautious depending on the opponent)

I even kept the high defensive line and high LoE, although they are known to increase the number of those long balls. The only time I see them is when I am leading towards the end of the match and the opponent switches to attacking or very attacking. At that point I move the defensive line to standard, not even deep, and that takes care of it really.

Maybe it is the league that I am playing in that makes a difference, who knows.

Edited by bleventozturk
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As far as I can see on youtube videos, the kind of setup that creates the most amount of long balls is:

1) attacking and very attacking mentalities

2) really fast strikers (preferably 2 of them) both on attack duty

Assuming that your team is the clearly stronger side, I see this kind of setup creating at least 5 of those long balls ---> 1on1's each match, sometimes more, which is of course not realistic.

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My CCC conversion rate is now 27 out of 35, a stunning 77%, which is complete opposite of all those people suffering from the long ball ----> missed 1on1 issue.

Edited by bleventozturk
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I love it as usual! And of course I hate all the little bugs that sometimes make me wait until March to purchase it, but what the hell, this time I bought it in December and never looked back. Your release date is problematic too, because of the fact that holidays are close and your team doesn't really work during that period, so you could move it backwards one months, it would be great.

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1 hour ago, bleventozturk said:

My CCC conversion rate is now 27 out of 35, a stunning 77%, which is complete opposite of all those people suffering from the long ball ----> missed 1on1 issue.

Across how many games? That’s a nice conversion rate and is indicative of great quality chances but needs context.

Edited by janrzm
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4 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Too many of them are attempted, and they seem to be triggered by the forwards starting a forward run before even the ball is played. Strikers in more attacking roles and attacking setups start those runs more often, which then increases the frequency of those long balls to unrealistic numbers. On contrary, when a midfielder has the ball closer to opponent's box, I see a significantly less movement (attempt) from the forwards, even though essentially that's a better time to do it because the pass that needs to be made is a shorter one, and should have a higher probability of success.

I think such runs and chances are a little too unrealistic, irl strikers will attempt those but on the shoulder of defender. Runs from deep are usually easily picked up. Practically it's poor representation in ME. Defininitely agree about shorter  thorugh balls into space there are dozens in each game, it would improve the gameplay a lot. And if players ran with ball little less too :onmehead:

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genuinely amazed we havent seen a "super keeper" debate yet.. we've had every other conspiracy theory going so far, super keepers seem to have taken a back burner... 

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7 minutes ago, rinso said:

genuinely amazed we havent seen a "super keeper" debate yet.. we've had every other conspiracy theory going so far, super keepers seem to have taken a back burner... 

It’s been largely ignored because it’s preferable to keepers that can’t keep..... :lol: and the ME has bigger issues IMO

Nunber if 1 v 1, world class long balls and zombie defenders are all bigger issues to me. Which incidentally could all be linked.

Keeper agility and reflexes need reigning in but sensibly, it’s good to know there’s actually a chance of a great save.

Edited by janrzm
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1 hour ago, bleventozturk said:

Nothing special really. My mostly used setup is a simple 4-3-3, which is a slightly tweaked version of the Control possession preset tactic in the tactics menu. I kept most of the roles the same even.

WB(s) - CD (d) - CD (d) - WB (s)

BWM (d)

CM (s) - AP (s)

IW (a) - W (a)

DLF (s)

Mentality: balanced (cycle between positive and cautious depending on the opponent)

I even kept the high defensive line and high LoE, although they are known to increase the number of those long balls. The only time I see them is when I am leading towards the end of the match and the opponent switches to attacking or very attacking. At that point I move the defensive line to standard, not even deep, and that takes care of it really.

Maybe it is the league that I am playing in that makes a difference, who knows.

could you post pkms showing extended quality central play not availing of long deep through balls where you show prolonged central movement with patience probing and threaded short passes along the ground into small pockets of space into the path of runner vertically or diagonally...thanks...it would be great to see it

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i should point out i was taking the mickey...  every year, theres mountains of arguments trying to explain why the game is "broken" but, still, plenty of people, find no issues and play it quite happily.. 

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It's the worst FM so far unfortunately. Full backs get in good positions and then stop and just wait to get tackled or pass backwards regardless if told to cross more. Wide men run the whole pitch and then just kick it into the side netting over and over regardless if told to shoot less. The 1 v 1's may be worse than ever. Don't even really look when a player is through 1 v 1. The list goes on. I re-downloaded last year's and enjoying it again. Unless a few patches come out I'll be nowhere near FM20. 

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56 minutes ago, rinso said:

i should point out i was taking the mickey...  every year, theres mountains of arguments trying to explain why the game is "broken" but, still, plenty of people, find no issues and play it quite happily.. 

Demonstrably true and yet I’m reminded of a quote by Edmund Burke. :lol:

I'd just add the following to that.

If you are happy with the game and see no issues then I totally respect that and would go as far as to say I'm delighted for you. However, seeking to dismiss or diminish the views of others through tongue in cheek sarcasm does nothing for this community or the long term development of the game in general. 

Edited by janrzm
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38 minutes ago, Mitja said:

I think such runs and chances are a little too unrealistic, irl strikers will attempt those but on the shoulder of defender. Runs from deep are usually easily picked up. Practically it's poor representation in ME. 

Agreed :thup: Most of them don't pass the eye test either. Only some look legit - I hope those will remain and won't get 'over'corrected.

Edited by bleventozturk
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45 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Across how many games? That’s a nice conversion rate and is indicative of great quality chances but needs context.

That's a good point. It is a small sample. But looks very encouraging. I am curious to see how the same setup would perform against a bigger variety of opponents.

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The goalkeepers definitely need balancing. And I’d like to lose via quality of play, rather than mistakes and/or set-pieces too. Again, yes, this happens in real life, but it’s not what ALWAYS happens in real life. 

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19 minutes ago, zachalxnder said:

The goalkeepers definitely need balancing. And I’d like to lose via quality of play, rather than mistakes and/or set-pieces too. Again, yes, this happens in real life, but it’s not what ALWAYS happens in real life. 

Absolutely, we need balance.

I watched the Liverpool vs Utd game this morning, two goals. One thats initiated through a slip/mistake the other through fantastic play. Also, to top it off there was nearly the classic "he certainly didn't mean that" goal..... :lol: 

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1 hour ago, ferrarinseb said:

How is the Posession actually calculated in game? 

Time of possession, not numbers of passes. If I have the ball for 30s and make one pass, and you have the ball for 29s and make two passes, I have more possession than you. Simples.

Edited by warlock
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1 minute ago, warlock said:

Time of possession, not numbers of passes. If I have the ball for 30s and make one pass, and you have the ball for 29s and make two passes, I have more possession than you. Simples.

isn't having no.of passes is how the real life calculates the Posession of the team? 

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Just now, ferrarinseb said:

isn't having no.of passes is how the real life calculates the Posession of the team? 

Probably. But FM isn't real life ;)

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I'm confident of there being a ME patch before March. SI have acknowledged "issues" with the match engine that they aren't currently happy with and I would expect a small update before the winter transfer one. 

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1 hour ago, ferrarinseb said:

I don't get this. If i have more passes completed then shouldn't i get more Posession? How did i end up with 49%. How is the Posession actually calculated in game? 

20200103081158_1.jpg

 

14 minutes ago, warlock said:

Time of possession, not numbers of passes. If I have the ball for 30s and make one pass, and you have the ball for 29s and make two passes, I have more possession than you. Simples.

I'm almost certain its not time in possession. For the sake of easy maths, let's say there are 500 passes in a game, of those 300 were yours. 300 divided by 500 = 0.6 x 100 = 60% Possession for you. I think..... 

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1 hour ago, ferrarinseb said:

I don't get this. If i have more passes completed then shouldn't i get more Posession? How did i end up with 49%. How is the Posession actually calculated in game? 

20200103081158_1.jpg

Rolling the dice

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14 minutes ago, warlock said:

Probably. But FM isn't real life ;)

I'm still dealing with this bombshell....... :lol:

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3 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

image.thumb.png.da3f615d35a79e3e54a8f7ba63bdd9d6.png

I really don't know how my monitor, keyboard and mouse is still intact

Going purely by these stats there is three possiblities:

1) You're a sane man and experienced player and after so many years don't trust the in-game CCCs, similar to a politician's election promise

2) Ditto, and you possibly had seen that not all of them were clear cut one on ones (or even better tap-ins, cut backs and open goals), with the Forward in Yards of space, such as these

3) You follow football analysis, so know that 1 in 5 chances as twice as good chances than the average football chance are considered as "big chances" -- so realize it's may be perfectly possible to the get above (short-term) streaks easily

In either case, congrats on saving a lot of money. :D 

Edited by Svenc
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1 hour ago, janrzm said:

 

I'm almost certain its not time in possession. For the sake of easy maths, let's say there are 500 passes in a game, of those 300 were yours. 300 divided by 500 = 0.6 x 100 = 60% Possession for you. I think..... 

As said above, FM uses time in possession, so it works like a chess clock. It's different to real life of course and it's been this way for a long time. 

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