Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[ferrarinseb]

Do this number of Setpieces and the Throw in's was connected to how AI uses its OI's? 

[stevemc]

Even winning games doesn't offer much attachment in FM20, feels like some of the intuitive decisions you make have the opposite effect, for example, I'm 5-0 up away at Brescia, they are bottom of the league having a terrible season, 10 mins to go, I want the clean sheet now. After being on a high-line with attacking mentality whilst scoring 5 goals, I move more cautious, drop the defensive line deep and keep possession to play the game out - all my players are flying, morale is high, match ratings are superb. Out of the blue, Brecia's centre-back, Giangiacomo Magnani with this 9 passing stat and poor morale launches a pin-point pass over Alessio Romagnoli's shoulder onto the edge of the 18 yard box, in space that barely exists, for Mario Balotelli bring down and to slot in a CCC one-on-one chance (coincidentally, these CCC one-on-one's are the chances by strikers miss 4/5 of per game). Clean sheet gone. The frustration is real.

I'm all for learning from my mistakes, which is why I shut out for the final 10 minutes, because I conceded the exact same goal on a high-line with attacking mentality.

I've also got Zlatan Ibrahimovic who's struggling to score, 1 goal in 9 games, the rest of my strikers are banging them in. The difference? Zlatan has missed 6 penalties. 

Having played much more of FM20 over the last few days, outside of the ME I believe the game is in the best shape it's ever been in, but inside of the ME it's actually really hard to connected with, incredibly frustrating due to all the afore mentioned issues in this thread - the sooner it's patched for the ME, the better. I actually think I preferred the Beta ME.

Think I'll take this Milan save to the end of the season and leave it there, and wait for the patch before continuing.

[bleventozturk]

8 hours ago, Svenc said:

There is likely an element to that. Also with how the much weaker team sets up. But also, as argued, how easy it is to get set pieces and shots off them. I first noticed the set piece stuff kinda when I set up a Team deliberately to not shoot much at all. As in: Everybody stay deep, just pass the ball around. On one release I'd have over 1000 passes per match. Eventually, they'd get fouled in or around the box, or win a throw-in in the oppositon area, from which shots would go off. Still managed to be top of the table with but barely 12 shots average one release (similar to Inter/Juve this term).

That's what's first triggered my interest.  Then I've watched a LOT of pkms throughout the years in which a side having lots of shots, including SOT, dropped the points. FM Matches may see a lot of shots, but I can guarantee you you won't ever see Matches in which 80- 90% of those or more are from genuinelly open Play, which is fairly common place in football. Suggesting that once the 1vs1 are patched, it's the set pieces mainly to "blame" inflating numbers with relatively low-proability chances of scoring. Purely watch the SOT pile up on the spreadsheet post-patch, and you'll end up frustrated still. Unless SI were to tweak set piece conversion ratios also, but if they overtune that, sitting deep will be suicidal. Even all of the bug Reports as to the 1vs1 almost all contain a significant number of shots purely from the set piece, oft being another major factor of how so few goals were scored.
 

I agree with you on the set pieces, but  also suspect the shots created from set pieces are tied with the chances created from long balls in the way that they are both caused by the defending team reacting to balls in the air a little later than the attacking team. So, improving the defenders' reaction time may help resolving both issues. Then of course the conversion rate needs to be increased to balance that.

[Burhan]

I'm really hoping for a ME update in next couple  days (At least a beta one). Even though I'm having success in this version, I'm not having fun while watching the matches. I don't see variety in attacks, goals etc. lots of movements are predictable. I can see a miss coming in certain angles or one on ones.

And again most of the headers doesn't get me excited because I know ball gonna go over the goal... I don't get worried when my defender misses the ball (They do that usually) and opponent forward gets in the box, because he's likely to miss it anyways.

I really hate to see when my overlapping wingbacks passing the ball back to opponent winger while trying to keep the ball in, I mean it's possible but happens a lot.

Tired of seeing my average wingbacks doing most of the key passes, they sending +40 meter penetrating long balls couple times every single game...

List can go further with annoying small things in ME but but I'll stop here.

I have been pre-ordering this  game more than a decade, even my friends telling me to wait for march updates I always trusted in this game. But 2020 disappointed me, I still trust in team but expecting some progress...

[bleventozturk]

I want  to say that, even with the known issues, I am actually enjoying FM 20 very much at this point, partly because with the tactical setups that I am using I am not experiencing much of the said issues, but also because the improved variety in goals that I am seeing, compared to FM 19 ME. I tried, but I just could not play that game. In this ME at least I am seeing 'some' through balls played every once in a while, which keeps things interesting, versus every single ball in the final third being played towards the wider areas like in FM 19. That ME was completely unplayable for me.

So, I am really keeping my fingers crossed that with the (possibly) last patch for FM 20, SI won't take the balls played through the center (including the long balls) away from the game and give us the FM 19 ME all over again, where goals come from crosses, set pieces and long shots only.

I have scored some amazing goals with 3-4 back to back successful passes through the middle, which just almost never happens in FM 19.

[Burhan]

10 dakika önce, bleventozturk said:

I want  to say that, even with the known issues, I am actually enjoying FM 20 very much at this point, partly because with the tactical setups that I am using I am not experiencing much of the said issues, but also because the improved variety in goals that I am seeing, compared to FM 19 ME. I tried, but I just could not play that game. In this ME at least I am seeing 'some' through balls played every once in a while, which keeps things interesting, versus every single ball in the final third being played towards the wider areas like in FM 19. That ME was completely unplayable for me.

So, I am really keeping my fingers crossed that with the (possibly) last patch for FM 20, SI won't take the balls played through the center (including the long balls) away from the game and give us the FM 19 ME all over again, where goals come from crosses, set pieces and long shots only.

Yeah I'm kinda happy with through balls from my DLP and fan of central play in general, 2020 is better than last years version in terms of that. But rest of the issues still damaging my gameplay experience tbh...

[rp1966]

What on earth is going on with regen managers?   I'm in the 2020/21 season with West Ham (note to self: update your profile!) and have just secured Leicester's relegation so I had a look at who was managing them only to find that it was some regen. Out of interest I had a look at the rest of the EPL- it looks like virtually all the teams that have changed manager this season have now got a regen. Not an established manager; not an ex-player moving into management, but a brand new regen.

In my save that's 6 teams with regen managers in the EPL. 

In the Championship it's 12!

 

[bleventozturk]

8 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

What on earth is going on with regen managers?   I'm in the 2020/21 season with West Ham (note to self: update your profile!) and have just secured Leicester's relegation so I had a look at who was managing them only to find that it was some regen. Out of interest I had a look at the rest of the EPL- it looks like virtually all the teams that have changed manager this season have now got a regen. Not an established manager; not an ex-player moving into management, but a brand new regen.

In my save that's 6 teams with regen managers in the EPL. 

In the Championship it's 12!

 

If that is not a known issue already by SI, I would certainly post it to the bugs forum, since it can be a game breaking bug for long saves.

[Dagenham_Dave]

32 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

What on earth is going on with regen managers?   I'm in the 2020/21 season with West Ham (note to self: update your profile!) and have just secured Leicester's relegation so I had a look at who was managing them only to find that it was some regen. Out of interest I had a look at the rest of the EPL- it looks like virtually all the teams that have changed manager this season have now got a regen. Not an established manager; not an ex-player moving into management, but a brand new regen.

In my save that's 6 teams with regen managers in the EPL. 

In the Championship it's 12!

 

This was an issue in the FM Classic (touch, eugh) version of the game, but was fixed after a recent update. This is the first time I've heard someone bring it up in the main game. Is it full fat FM you are playing?

[rp1966]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

This was an issue in the FM Classic (touch, eugh) version of the game, but was fixed after a recent update. This is the first time I've heard someone bring it up in the main game. Is it full fat FM you are playing?

No, it's FMT.  Just seen it as an issue under review in the Touch bugs forum, so it looks like Si are looking at it, it may not have been fixed in the the update you mention, although I didn't start a new save at the last patch so it may have already been baked into my save (at least for this season).

I'd be surprised if the same staff generating code wasn't used in both games, though.  But maybe that's one of the areas FMT diverges from the main game.

 

[GOODNAME]

20 hours ago, fournaan said:

Hope we'll see a patch fairly soon rather than the usual one in March or whenever. Really in the mood to play fm but even 5 minutes watching the ME takes that all away 

Never in previous versions  SI realsed patch  to the ME before March (after the first patch  to the ME in December)

So I'm I'm not think we well get ME patch before  March

[Miravlix]

*sigh* B club problems again.

 

I bought a new player and put him in the B team, now one of my first team players is recommending him, like he isn't already at the club.

 

The list of B club bugs is awfully long, doesn't seem to be anything working, staff hiring is broken, Senior players playing on the B team is 99% broken, the interface is completely confused and sometimes refers to the B team as senior team and while it's supposed to be ONE club, the game falls apart in many cases and forgets B club players and staff is part of the club.

 

If you had listened to my bug reports about B club problems back in 2014 or whenever it was, we might not be in this idiotic mess. It seems to me that the problem's I reported years ago seems to be the reason that FM20 new features totally messed things up.

[Jesper9000]

24 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

Never in previous versions  SI realsed patch  to the ME before March (after the first patch  to the ME in December)

So I'm I'm not think we well get ME patch before  March

Let’s see - maybe we will have an update from @Neil Brock later this week. 

[autohoratio]

To add to my rant from the other day, another thing I hate about this ME is how the player who has the ball ALWAYS decides to run with it, possibly because they're in acres of space with no players in a good position to press them, whereas in real life every team I watch regularly has the ball carrier slow pace down and only take a few steps before either stopping or passing. In FM I have no idea how to stop the constant dribbling with the ball, unless I use the editor to give all my players PPMs to hold up/slow down play, dribble less instructions do absolutely nothing. I'm loath to use the Regroup transition instruction because it seems to slow down my team's attacks too much, but with how many corners/free kicks I've been getting recently that just lead to headers blazed miles over the bar that might be a good instruction to add...

[Pasonen]

20 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

To add to my rant from the other day, another thing I hate about this ME is how the player who has the ball ALWAYS decides to run with it, possibly because they're in acres of space with no players in a good position to press them, whereas in real life every team I watch regularly has the ball carrier slow pace down and only take a few steps before either stopping or passing. In FM I have no idea how to stop the constant dribbling with the ball, unless I use the editor to give all my players PPMs to hold up/slow down play, dribble less instructions do absolutely nothing. I'm loath to use the Regroup transition instruction because it seems to slow down my team's attacks too much, but with how many corners/free kicks I've been getting recently that just lead to headers blazed miles over the bar that might be a good instruction to add...

Fm Players should think how much they use their energy in game too. Its very energy uneffecient way of play if you allways carry ball to offensive zone. I have seen like 100 counters dried up because players just run, run and when is time to make a pass they dont pass or the other player didnt just follow counter correctly and stays outside the core areas of the attack. :/

[Mitja]

14 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

To add to my rant from the other day, another thing I hate about this ME is how the player who has the ball ALWAYS decides to run with it, possibly because they're in acres of space with no players in a good position to press them, whereas in real life every team I watch regularly has the ball carrier slow pace down and only take a few steps before either stopping or passing. In FM I have no idea how to stop the constant dribbling with the ball, unless I use the editor to give all my players PPMs to hold up/slow down play, dribble less instructions do absolutely nothing. I'm loath to use the Regroup transition instruction because it seems to slow down my team's attacks too much, but with how many corners/free kicks I've been getting recently that just lead to headers blazed miles over the bar that might be a good instruction to add...

Totally agree it's so much unrealistic. What I see as problem is no tight marking, no closing down of passing options and no defending as unit, defending teams are stretched both vertically and horizontally. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between attacking and defending team. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

3 hours ago, rp1966 said:

No, it's FMT.  Just seen it as an issue under review in the Touch bugs forum, so it looks like Si are looking at it, it may not have been fixed in the the update you mention, although I didn't start a new save at the last patch so it may have already been baked into my save (at least for this season).

I'd be surprised if the same staff generating code wasn't used in both games, though.  But maybe that's one of the areas FMT diverges from the main game.

 

Yeah, you need to start a new save to get rid of the issue after the update, annoyingly. 

[Svenc]

10 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

So, I am really keeping my fingers crossed that with the (possibly) last patch for FM 20, SI won't take the balls played through the center (including the long balls) away from the game

The adressing of the defender reaction to long balls may cause some of the exploit tactics scene to through a tantrum in the meanwhile, as that's an insane amount of percentages of assists from deep and within the own half (despite Forwards NEVER scoring 1vs1s.) I guess that's what you get from systematically exploring each ME build's issues (which the AI competition, see opposition stats, clearly don't do). Good shout on there being a possible connection to set piece defending too!

[bleventozturk]

6 minutes ago, Svenc said:

The adressing of the defender reaction to long balls may cause some of the exploit tactics scene to through a tantrum in the meanwhile, as that's an insane amount of percentages of assists from deep and within the own half (despite Forwards NEVER scoring 1vs1s.) I guess that's what you get from systematically exploring each ME build's issues (which the AI competition, see opposition stats, clearly don't do). Good shout on there being a possible connection to set piece defending too!

Those 30 assists from own half should probably reduce to around 10, and the subtracted 20 should be evenly distributed to other 4 areas as 5+5+5+5, but I fear that it will be more like 10+10 to the wide areas, and even more taken out from the center two areas and added to the wide areas, and you get FM 19 that way all over again and that's my fear.

 

[Miravlix]

The new playing time system seems mostly good, but as far as I can tell I have to play Star Players with zero rest until they get injured and then I have to play them as soon as the injury go from red to yellow to keep them happy. If I try to wait a match because of low condition, they get upset. (Playing time happyness goes to concerned by just missing *ANY* match where they can be legally selected.)

 

I also seem to get bad performance from the players now I don't rotate, instead of consistently getting good performances in all matches.

 

Maybe Star Player is fine in a lower league club that play 1 match a week, but in a big club with 2-3 matches a week and a Star Player, especially the injury prone kind, is basically useless. You simply can't play someone like Kylian less than his injury problem requires, because you can't hire him at anything less than Star Player status.

 

I try to not play anyone with high injury risk, not sure it really matters, but I need some kind of data to use for deciding to rotate, it maybe the difference between 1% 2% 3% increase in injury risk, but what it does do is deal with overall fatigue, now I'm playing the Star Players in all matches, I have problems with players needing RST, I've sent Kylian on two one week vacations, but he is still tired and we aren't even halfway through the season (Or maybe it was more, I think I rested him in pre-season to recover from a heavy round of national games).

 

Seems to me that Star Players expected playing time doesn't work with the injury system at all and with top club's heavy schedules the overall tiredness mechanics kicks in, because the player can't tell the difference between 1 match a week and 3 matches a week schedules.

[bleventozturk]

So far in my season, out of the 31 assists for my team, only 4 were made from my own half. Conceded 13 assists, and 3 of those were from my opponent's half. So, it is true that the long ball situation doesn't happen with every setup.

[bleventozturk]

17 minutes ago, Svenc said:

The adressing of the defender reaction to long balls may cause some of the exploit tactics scene to through a tantrum in the meanwhile, as that's an insane amount of percentages of assists from deep and within the own half (despite Forwards NEVER scoring 1vs1s.) I guess that's what you get from systematically exploring each ME build's issues (which the AI competition, see opposition stats, clearly don't do). Good shout on there being a possible connection to set piece defending too!

Also, out of the 32 CCC's my team created so far, 24! were converted. Whereas my opponents created 35 CCC's but only converted 16 of them. So, you are absolutely right in all your statistical analysis that not all CCC's (what FM calls CCC) are the same.

[Miravlix]

The "Buy high reputation players" board want is silly, even worse if it's combined with develop players.

 

Seems to me I can't buy a new high profile player every season, because I simply run out of Star Player playing slots and even worse if I develop some new stars, because why would I sell a HomeGrown player just to get a high profile in instead?

 

This need to be changed to something like having a high reputation squad/players instead.

[Svenc]

7 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Also, out of the 32 CCC's my team created so far, 24! were converted. Whereas my opponents created 35 CCC's but only converted 16 of them. So, you are absolutely right in all your statistical analysis that not all CCC's (what FM calls CCC) are the same.

Yes, over such samples this is always about the chances as opposed to the players (but then according to football analytics, only the very best Forwards on each level bang a couple extra goals per season going by the chances they have -- carving more chances out is naturally also a skill). Aforementioned exploity tactics more focused on the long balls has "but" a conversion of 64% and the (Opposition 57%). Your own numbers, a conversion Ratio of 75% may still come some down, as the sample size isn't as big yet.

 

[ferrarinseb]

Can any one tell me what does  Tackle Easy do compared to Tackle Hard in OI's. would that make the player selected get Harrassed by my player ?

[Welshace]

4 hours ago, ferrarinseb said:

Can any one tell me what does  Tackle Easy do compared to Tackle Hard in OI's. would that make the player selected get Harrassed by my player ?

It means to not go so hard in tackles on that player, to ease off on tackles... it's so your player on a yellow card or with an injury won't go flying in and foul a player and get sent off essentially

[Tiger666]

15 hours ago, autohoratio said:

To add to my rant from the other day, another thing I hate about this ME is how the player who has the ball ALWAYS decides to run with it, possibly because they're in acres of space with no players in a good position to press them, whereas in real life every team I watch regularly has the ball carrier slow pace down and only take a few steps before either stopping or passing. In FM I have no idea how to stop the constant dribbling with the ball, unless I use the editor to give all my players PPMs to hold up/slow down play, dribble less instructions do absolutely nothing. I'm loath to use the Regroup transition instruction because it seems to slow down my team's attacks too much, but with how many corners/free kicks I've been getting recently that just lead to headers blazed miles over the bar that might be a good instruction to add...

I reported too many dribbles. Not had a response.

 

[ferrarinseb]

10 minutes ago, Welshace said:

It means to not go so hard in tackles on that player, to ease off on tackles... it's so your player on a yellow card or with an injury won't go flying in and foul a player and get sent off essentially

Thanks  

[Nebuuu]

Uff! I absolutely loved the FM2020 and have almost 200 hours of playtime so far.
When i left my home before christmas and had 1 day free for playing@dec 30th, i wondered what happened.
If i was dreaming or it`s my fault because of the ME.

So i tried different tactics, watched the matchstats and 3D Gameplay...it was clearly different from before, when i left for X-mas.
Finally i read the forums and damn....worst case scenario for me.

I know the team is working in the background and there is an Infopost from Neil on top...but i hate to wait to play the FM.
The FM2020 i 100% loved. The Match Engines 1-3 Patches before were one of the best i`ve played.
And this is now one of the worst ME.

I really, really hope we get a ME Patch soon. Even when i know we have to display patience and it`s still early into the year.
sh*t happens i guess.

Happy New Year@all and except that...the FM2020 is awesome! Ty SI-Games. ♥

[Novem9]

8 часов назад, Miravlix сказал:

The new playing time system seems mostly good, but as far as I can tell I have to play Star Players with zero rest until they get injured and then I have to play them as soon as the injury go from red to yellow to keep them happy. If I try to wait a match because of low condition, they get upset. (Playing time happyness goes to concerned by just missing *ANY* match where they can be legally selected.)

 

I also seem to get bad performance from the players now I don't rotate, instead of consistently getting good performances in all matches.

 

Maybe Star Player is fine in a lower league club that play 1 match a week, but in a big club with 2-3 matches a week and a Star Player, especially the injury prone kind, is basically useless. You simply can't play someone like Kylian less than his injury problem requires, because you can't hire him at anything less than Star Player status.

 

I try to not play anyone with high injury risk, not sure it really matters, but I need some kind of data to use for deciding to rotate, it maybe the difference between 1% 2% 3% increase in injury risk, but what it does do is deal with overall fatigue, now I'm playing the Star Players in all matches, I have problems with players needing RST, I've sent Kylian on two one week vacations, but he is still tired and we aren't even halfway through the season (Or maybe it was more, I think I rested him in pre-season to recover from a heavy round of national games).

 

Seems to me that Star Players expected playing time doesn't work with the injury system at all and with top club's heavy schedules the overall tiredness mechanics kicks in, because the player can't tell the difference between 1 match a week and 3 matches a week schedules.

Pep Guardiola said that its more simple to explain rotation principles for his wife then explain for Robben why he will miss next game  

But personally me never have a problems with star players and I like this system more, even MORE

[Novem9]

6 часов назад, ferrarinseb сказал:

Can any one tell me what does  Tackle Easy do compared to Tackle Hard in OI's. would that make the player selected get Harrassed by my player ?

Easy it try to use careful tackles without foul. Player tries to find a 'window' for successful tackle but no give a real chance for dribble himself. And low count of opposite freekicks in theory. 
Hard is priority for stopping even if this tackle will be cruel and overly aggressive, like a slide tackle in middle without any real reason for stop so radical. 

But it needs to remember that type of tackles linked with mentality. In cautious mentality tackles are more careful in compare of positive for example

[RPM_01]

Have to agree with the majority here.

The ME in its current state isn't enjoyable. The balls over the top are too accurate and happen way too often. It hasn't stopped me from winning but the immersion of the game isn't really the same. 

I've actually resorted to FM19 until the patch comes out, which made think about the clear cut chances. When watching in FM19 some chances are definite clear cuts but don't register as so whereas in FM20 it's quite clear that there are too many. If they could find the balance between the two that would be my ideal. I actually use the clear cut chances, key passes, assists to assess how my players are playing and whether I should be changing their position/roles so getting this more accurate would help out when picking the right teams.

I love the FM series and I quite like the additions that have been made for FM20's version so will be looking forward to playing it again once the patch has hit!

[ferrarinseb]

16 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Easy it try to use careful tackles without foul. Player tries to find a 'window' for successful tackle but no give a real chance for dribble himself. And low count of opposite freekicks in theory. 
Hard is priority for stopping even if this tackle will be cruel and overly aggressive, like a slide tackle in middle without any real reason for stop so radical. 

But it needs to remember that type of tackles linked with mentality. In cautious mentality tackles are more careful in compare of positive for example

Thanks . 

[LucasBR]

When the last patch will be out? Start of February?

[FrazT]

11 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

When the last patch will be out? Start of February?

The update is usually released after the end of the winter transfer windows and has been around the end of February/beginning of March in previous years.  Nobody can be sure till it is released.

[Jesper9000]

42 minutes ago, FrazT said:

The update is usually released after the end of the winter transfer windows and has been around the end of February/beginning of March in previous years.  Nobody can be sure till it is released.

@FrazT so no patch should be expected before end of February the earliest? 

[Rashidi]

37 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

@FrazT so no patch should be expected before end of February the earliest? 

No one knows when the patch is going to happen till SI says its gonna happen. The mods have no idea when its coming, they aren't salaried employees of SI in the know.

[stevemc]

Madness if the next patch is going to be March this time around, historically that's generally the case but given the state the current ME is in (which I can't remember being so disappointed with an FM at this stage before), I'd be surprised if something wasn't done to address some things before that date, as a make-weight.

If it is March, then that's 3+ months after game release day, which isn't really great for a "finished product". That would mean that the FM20 experience hasn't been as enjoyable as it should have been for over 25% of the time before FM21 would be released.

Definitely worth thinking about changing my personal FM cycle going forwards, rather than buy on launch for the Christmas holidays, just buy every March each year instead then I don't have to be a part of this settling down period.

As I said earlier in the thread, my feedback on the rest of the game (outside of the ME) is superb, I love it and they should be commended for that.

[segadayi]

22 saat önce, Burhan said:

even my friends telling me to wait for march updates

Burhan, how are you Burhan? Are you fine Burhan? 

[Novem9]

6 минут назад, stevemc сказал:

Madness if the next patch is going to be March this time around, historically that's generally the case but given the state the current ME is in (which I can't remember being so disappointed with an FM at this stage before), I'd be surprised if something wasn't done to address some things before that date, as a make-weight.

If it is March, then that's 3+ months after game release day, which isn't really great for a "finished product". That would mean that the FM20 experience hasn't been as enjoyable as it should have been for over 25% of the time before FM21 would be released.

Definitely worth thinking about changing my personal FM cycle going forwards, rather than buy on launch for the Christmas holidays, just buy every March each year instead then I don't have to be a part of this settling down period.

As I said earlier in the thread, my feedback on the rest of the game (outside of the ME) is superb, I love it and they should be commended for that.

The same for me. I bought FM19 in pre-beta and waited for spring update. I bought FM20 and wait for spring update. And it will be cheaper for a second in spring as I remember sales politics of SI 

[profii]

I am not sure if this is a result of using the gegenpress, or potentially because I started in Vanarama North and I'm on my 2nd Prem season, so I haven't experienced any 'elite' players really yet...but I have noticed:

-Corners seem to get cleared to the edge of the box and then punted back in for a goal more frequently than I'd expect.
-Advanced throw ins tend to easily result in: throw -> cross -> goal
-Defenders make some really poor decisions when clearing - this might be because I play in 2D classic but I've never had this issue before - Say a cross lands on my full back at the back post, instead of taking the ball down, or hitting it out for a corner/throw/hoof, they just do a feeble 10 yard clearance up the wing and the opponent picks up the ball - I get it if you said now and again you might spanner a cross and it goes 5 yards but not as much as it seems to happen.

 

Admittedly I haven't done anything about these issues. I am tempted to make a attacking corner tactic with minimal people in the box and everyone loitering outside, as this seems to be where you get the goals!

[Sharkn20]

17 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

The same for me. I bought FM19 in pre-beta and waited for spring update. I bought FM20 and wait for spring update. And it will be cheaper for a second in spring as I remember sales politics of SI 

Same here, FM21 will be bought in March. Had enough of being an SI tester working for free. Hopefully they will experience a huge drop in the incomes with the Beta and early release, so they actually learn from this year's disappointment.

[the_gers_fan]

35 minutes ago, stevemc said:

Madness if the next patch is going to be March this time around, historically that's generally the case but given the state the current ME is in (which I can't remember being so disappointed with an FM at this stage before), I'd be surprised if something wasn't done to address some things before that date, as a make-weight.

If it is March, then that's 3+ months after game release day, which isn't really great for a "finished product". That would mean that the FM20 experience hasn't been as enjoyable as it should have been for over 25% of the time before FM21 would be released.

Definitely worth thinking about changing my personal FM cycle going forwards, rather than buy on launch for the Christmas holidays, just buy every March each year instead then I don't have to be a part of this settling down period.

As I said earlier in the thread, my feedback on the rest of the game (outside of the ME) is superb, I love it and they should be commended for that.

I will be the same. Fed up of purchasing the game on release to then have to wait until March to play the “polished” version of the game.

What’s frustrating is that outside of the ME, the game makes great improvements year upon year but the ME seriously declines in quality. The ME, in my opinion, is the most important aspect of the game but just seems to get worse as time goes on.

[BigV]

25 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Same here, FM21 will be bought in March. Had enough of being an SI tester working for free. Hopefully they will experience a huge drop in the incomes with the Beta and early release, so they actually learn from this year's disappointment.

Posts will be deleted but the same was said last year yet each and every fm, sales increase and goes to new levels of players playing the game compared to previous ones.  

[bleventozturk]

It is not really surprising at all that the ME needs a few more months of testing and polishing with each new version, compared to the other areas of the game. In all the other areas, there are a set number of possible user inputs and outputs, and the fact that the rest of the game is simply fantastic proves that SI has some great coders that are working on this game. ME is a different case, because it has to deal with basically infinite amount of user inputs, and that's why SI needs the ME to be played and tested by hundreds of thousands of people to reveal some of it's weaknesses and hidden anomalies. And then the balancing dance begins. It is really up to you if you want to be a part of that process, or just wait until March to test the final version and make a decision based on that. That process can be very frustrating sometimes, and depending on your personality it may be better to avoid it.

[KiLLu12258]

had so much fun with this fm at the beginning, but for now its just frustrating.

 

started a new safe with gladbach and i can set what i want my defender just looking how the long balls are flying over them. Also my striker cant score, plea made only 1 goal in 15 games, missed like 30 or even more 1on1s. 

If i play with deep defense line same **** happen as i play with full offensive press, defenders are just doing nothing.

 

 

[the_gers_fan]

11 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

It is not really surprising at all that the ME needs a few more months of testing and polishing with each new version, compared to the other areas of the game. In all the other areas, there are a set number of possible user inputs and outputs, and the fact that the rest of the game is simply fantastic proves that SI has some great coders that are working on this game. ME is a different case, because it has to deal with basically infinite amount of user inputs, and that's why SI needs the ME to be played and tested by hundreds of thousands of people to reveal some of it's weaknesses and hidden anomalies. And then the balancing dance begins. It is really up to you if you want to be a part of that process, or just wait until March to test the final version and make a decision based on that. That process can be very frustrating sometimes, and depending on your personality it may be better to avoid it.

What I don’t understand is why do SI need to create a new ME every edition? Why not update the existing one every year. Surely that would significantly decrease the amount of ME issues?

[stevemc]

18 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

that's why SI needs the ME to be played and tested by hundreds of thousands of people to reveal some of it's weaknesses and hidden anomalies. And then the balancing dance begins. It is really up to you if you want to be a part of that process, or just wait until March to test the final version and make a decision based on that.

I take your point, but with all due respect, customers are purchasing a released, finished product. I pay to play the product, not to test it. The final version (baring a couple of anomalies) should be the games release day.

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, the_gers_fan said:

What I don’t understand is why do SI need to create a new ME every edition? Why not update the existing one every year. Surely that would significantly decrease the amount of ME issues?

You'd think but that's thinking way too simple. There's rule changes that need to be implemented each season & technology evolves season after season to improve the ME. Remember what's been said around here countless times, 1 small change in the ME can have huge knockon effects so any changes that are made cause imbalances elsewhere that need to be sorted  

[Mitja]

25 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

ME is a different case, because it has to deal with basically infinite amount of user inputs, and that's why SI needs the ME to be played and tested by hundreds of thousands of people to reveal some of it's weaknesses and hidden anomalies.

How many people report ME issues here? Couple of dozens? Plus their testing team, it's closer to hundred then thousand hundreds.

And most of bigger issues were spoted right awey.