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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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Can we have the Malaysian Super League and maybe the Malaysian Premier League as well? Recently one of the teams (Johor Darul Takzim) have been getting more famous, qualified for the AFC Champions League and a LOT of my friends would love the opportunity to play their favorite teams of that league and maybe do a Road to Glory, and start their journey as a manager there as well. Thanks!!

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6 minutes ago, Neil Harris said:

Can we have the Malaysian Super League and maybe the Malaysian Premier League as well? Recently one of the teams (Johor Darul Takzim) have been getting more famous, qualified for the AFC Champions League and a LOT of my friends would love the opportunity to play their favorite teams of that league and maybe do a Road to Glory, and start their journey as a manager there as well. Thanks!!

They are in the game. You can play as JDT or Sarawak, JDT is in the Super League and Sarawak is in the premier league.

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1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

They are in the game. You can play as JDT or Sarawak, JDT is in the Super League and Sarawak is in the premier league.

Ah okok sorry. Thanks:thup:

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41 minutes ago, Dkfootball said:

I've read that, 12 clear cut chances 2 goals. It's not just a one off either, it happens so much in FM20. They either need to look at how CCC are recorded, I.e are they recording things as CCC which just aren't? Or Is the finishing from players just poor? 

But ok, pretend it's not an issue :)

...or, they could balance the ME to create way less of these chances :thup:

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19 minutes ago, Martini said:

I've been playing FM since decades but every year I get the feeling that attributes don't matter and all that matters are two things, current ability and the killer tactic, just find the players with the highest current ability (doesn't matter if they can't pass or score anyway) and find the killer tactics for the current year and there you go, club world champion x 5, every year I feel that tactics and player attributes mean less and less (remember without the ball tactics?), you can't create a good passing team or tackling defensive team, attributes won't matter at all, current ability is everything.

End of rant.

Mods feel free to take this down if you wish as it's not feedback...

I get that feeling sometimes too but you can definetely see the difference. I got lewis cook to 4* and bought dennis zakaria, zakaria within 3 months boosted to 4*, his base stats and DM position was worse off than cook yet still outplayed him. Cook has the better attributes and CA with 5* PA. It's about the players that FIT the SYSTEM. Zakaria fits it better as hes more defensive and useful against better teams that attack me. Still see cook pass better and make more riskier passes than Zakaria with the same role so they certainly mean something.

I wouldn't fully blame the ME but the ball over the top and accurate passing from wide (beta) made it harder to see what you actually want them to do at times. There have been some good plays showed in this thread nd tactics thread with/without "good" players. If the ME was balanced you could easily see the difference (play fm17/18 you'll see the difference quite easily). 

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Is v2026 the latest official version of the ME, or does it come with the beta participation? I started a new save this morning, and I notice fewer (or none actually) of the so hated long balls to the forwards from the opposite team so far. However, my players completley ignore my "much shorter passing", "slower tempo" and "work ball into box" instructions and keep bombing long balls to my inside forwards. Could have something to do with me not knowing anything about tactics, though.

Edited by Viking

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One thing that I am personally afraid about is yet another overcorrection by SI to the ME. I kept testing the ME with different setups, and I must agree that the initial feedback (by myself as well) about the long balls over the top was a bit exaggerated, and they don't always happen a lot. In fact, I think that they should still happen in certain setups more often, to properly punish the overatacking teams, otherwise it will be FM19 all over again. The only thing I would change a bit would be to add a bit more variety to those passes, because they look mostly identical at the moment. Also reduce the accuracy a bit, especially when those balls are played by not so technical center backs, and improve the reaction of the defenders. 

Improving the reaction of defenders will also hopefully improve the defending in set pieces and crosses (pretty much every time the ball is up in the air). Once those are achieved, the finishing accuracy should be improved a bit to balance the defensive improvements of course. 

Again, I really hope SI won't overcorrect and completely remove those high defensive line punishing passes from the ME.

Also, please do something about the GK ratings, since they are on average 0.2-0.3 less than the rest of the team, in every team pretty much. That should've been caught by the soak tests and adjusted.

The last thing for me is the variety in penalty kicks. They ball is always on the ground or maybe a foot high in the air. We never ever see any ball that is hit higher than that. 

They key is "SMALL" tweaks, please SI :)

 

 

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb bleventozturk:

They key is "SMALL" tweaks, please SI :)

There is no other way to adjust things in the ME. As there are that many variables connected they need to be very carefully when tweaking things, as even some "minor" changes can have a knock on that no one expect. So it's tweaking, testing, testing, testing, tweaking, testing and so on.

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4 hours ago, Dkfootball said:

I've read that, 12 clear cut chances 2 goals. It's not just a one off either, it happens so much in FM20. They either need to look at how CCC are recorded, I.e are they recording things as CCC which just aren't? Or Is the finishing from players just poor? 

But ok, pretend it's not an issue :)

In parts it's how the CCC is recorded, in part's is how they come About (Long ball defending). However the reason for my reply was that I had answered how you could go dozens of SOT without scoring just a couple minutes before you posted your screenshot. And it's something which is overlooked, namely the set pieces. It is too easy to get SOT from the set piece too -- but being headers under pressure, they aren't that oft converted into goals.

That's a game issue to me. But :if you're at least Aware that you have so many shots purely from the set piece, you can still do something tactically about it. Every set piece to simplify is the result of a defense getting a foot into a move still... Therefore, if the defense is better stretched, you will have less SOT purely from the set piece, and more goals..These kinda matches are never purely about the 1vs1s missed. Yours would be a first.


Download tactics promoted here too are oft notoriously hideous at stretching packed defenses likewise. With illogical tactics just pegging the opposition back, but creating virtually zero attacking space, on the Beta some reported matches of not scoring off 60+ shots. That's almost Crystal Palace's start of the Season record 2017, except that they took 8 Matches to not score a single goal in ~80 shots. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, KUBI said:

There is no other way to adjust things in the ME. As there are that many variables connected they need to be very carefully when tweaking things, as even some "minor" changes can have a knock on that no one expect. So it's tweaking, testing, testing, testing, tweaking, testing and so on.

I understand. Since none of us here are familiar with the ME code, it seems that we tend to think about certain aspects of the ME as if an attribute/gauge is assigned to it in the code, like for example the effectiveness of long passes is 18, and it should be taken down to 14 (I'm making up numbers here, but you get the point). Instead, it seems like the imbalances that we see in the ME that pop up out of nowhere from one iteration to another, are caused by a knock-on, and not because of an adjustment on a gauge of effectiveness of something. If so, that just explains why it is so hard to balance the ME. 

Which brings me to my next question, is SI considering a new approach to the code maybe, where certain things CAN be adjusted without knock-ons on other parts of the code? That would certainly require a re-write of some parts of the code, if not all, but is that even possible?

Edited by bleventozturk

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1 hour ago, bleventozturk said:

I understand. Since none of us here are familiar with the ME code, it seems that we tend to think about certain aspects of the ME as if an attribute/gauge is assigned to it in the code, like for example the effectiveness of long passes is 18, and it should be taken down to 14 (I'm making up numbers here, but you get the point). Instead, it seems like the imbalances that we see in the ME that pop up out of nowhere from one iteration to another, are caused by a knock-on, and not because of an adjustment on a gauge of effectiveness of something. If so, that just explains why it is so hard to balance the ME. 

Which brings me to my next question, is SI considering a new approach to the code maybe, where certain things CAN be adjusted without knock-ons on other parts of the code? That would certainly require a re-write of some parts of the code, if not all, but is that even possible?

This is what I think they should be concentrating on, a complete rewrite of the match engine where players have more control. The match engine right now is just way too random, player stats don't matter and instructions are mostly ignored.

It leads to frustration because you have presented problems for the user and no way to combat it.

A good game presents you with problems and gives you the tools to solve it. The match engine ignores player instructions and also player stats. So you can't tell you players not to do something and you can't buy better players to solve that problem.

What's the user supposed to do? I really would not have minded the over the top balls if there was an ingame solution but there isn't, you can reduce them but even then they are way too effective.

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Youth intake is broken in my save. I am managing Ajax and in fourth youth intake release I didnt manage to get one player at least with 3.5 or more PA.

 

My HOYD have WWY 20, JPA 18 and JPP 19. He is also a perfectionist.

Have state of the art youth facilities, both exceptional academy coaching and youth recruitment.

Only solution is to buy young players obviously but this is very frustrating.

Edited by Bakiano

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This is getting a bit ridiculous. 22 CCCs and 18 HCs in my last 3 games, 10 goals and only TWO from actual open play not being longshots. I won all 3 of those games btw.

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I'll ask here because I don't know where is the correct place, if I'm wrong please let me know.

I'm willing to start a new save in Italy but every team that I choose every player is in holidays until 22nd of July, is this correct or some kind of bug?

Thank you in advance.

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vor 17 Minuten schrieb LucasBR:

I'll ask here because I don't know where is the correct place, if I'm wrong please let me know.

I'm willing to start a new save in Italy but every team that I choose every player is in holidays until 22nd of July, is this correct or some kind of bug?

Thank you in advance.

The season in Italy starts late, end of August with pre-season matches starting around 20 of July.

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10 hours ago, Novem9 said:

@Neil Brock Is it really a feature that replaces old system of medal by 10 games which I asked about? :eek::)

29981128_Image1.thumb.png.bc2ff51bd3b5028a70e8777bbc49d1bd.png

Glad they fixed that. Been banging on about it for years. Maybe 1 game is too few but it's a lot better than it was set up in previous versions of FM. 

Edited by Jibby123

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11 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

And? Encouraging your players to play down a certain side doesn't mean they will never attack down the other side. Your issue seems to be that you think instructions are binary. Team and player instructions are suggestions, and the players (depending on a number of factors) will attempt to adhere to them where possible. However, there are so many variables involved, it's never going to be an exact science, and neither it should be. 

This, along with your constant reloading until you win makes me feel as though this game really isn't for you. 

All I’m looking for is an acknowledgment. Just something to say: that was you, your tactics did that.

I can’t claim much credit for my players hitting endless, inch perfect balls over the top since I’ve specifically told them to play short passes and to have a slow build up. 
 

In fact I take very credit for anything of the good things my team does in this game so I should definitely not take the blame for the bad.

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11 hours ago, CFuller said:

If playing a video game gives you even the slightest urge to smash your computer against the wall, maybe you should stop playing it.

It was a joke.

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11 hours ago, Svenc said:

Unfortunately, reloading until you luck out also isn't quite the superior learning experience. :D 

I love a good re-start.

I especially love how you can get a completely different result with the exact same team, tactics and team talk. As if none of those things make the slightest difference.

 

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4 hours ago, bcereus said:

Player instructions seem to mean absolutely nothing in this game. The engine decides what it wants to do regardless of what you tell the players. 

 

This ends up feeling like you have no control, I swear every iteration of this game just seems to take away more and more player control and also variety.

 

I honestly believe their match engine works fine if you just accept that you have like 20% control over player instructions and the rest is the match engine deciding to fulfill some overral season stats.

 

It's incredibly frustrating and what worries me more is that they don't have any issues with how it currently works. Before players pressured them into trying to fix the over the top balls from CBs, there were many comments from them saying it was working fine. 

 

They seem to just use stats to look at the stats of a season rather than how the chances are being created.

 

Stop adding unnecessary features every year and dedicate that time to the most important part of the game, the thing that directly affects player enjoyment. Your other features don't matter if the player doesn't enjoy watching his team.

Completely agree. 

This where the game fails to bring joy. This is a management game, so your only inputs to the game are as manager e.g. selecting the right players and tactics. 

For there to be joy in this game, your decisions need to mean something. 
 

Like when the other team went down to 10 men and didn’t have a right winger. I concentrated my attacks down the left and then scored from the right. 

That goal was joyless because it was the opposite of what I’d told my players to do.

Had my team scored down the left, that might have caused me a brief moment of joy. 

That’s all I ask for. Joy.

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33 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

Completely agree. 

This where the game fails to bring joy. This is a management game, so your only inputs to the game are as manager e.g. selecting the right players and tactics. 

For there to be joy in this game, your decisions need to mean something. 
 

Like when the other team went down to 10 men and didn’t have a right winger. I concentrated my attacks down the left and then scored from the right. 

That goal was joyless because it was the opposite of what I’d told my players to do.

Had my team scored down the left, that might have caused me a brief moment of joy. 

That’s all I ask for. Joy.

Although I agree with you to a certain extent, I think that some randomness is also needed for realism. The players are not robots, and no matter what you tell them, when they see the opportunity I full expect them to override your micromanagement and play the long ball (in this case) if that will mean a clear cut chance for your team. It is just that it is happening a little more than it should imo, due to (maybe) unrealistic accuracy in those long balls. Like I said before, I would hate it if they completely disappear again from the game, especially since the attacks through the middle are a bit lacking still in this version of the ME. I can't play FM 19 because all the balls are played towards the wings once you approach the final third. This ME is better in that aspect.

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Remember when Manchester City played Aston Villa earlier this season, and they opened the scoring with the most route-one goal they'll get all season long? Was Guardiola seething because it wasn't exactly how he wanted his team to score? No, he wasn't.

If you expect your players to carry out your instructions to the letter every single time (or even 95% of the time), then prepare to be left consistently disappointed. That is just not how football works, and I'm honestly amazed that so many people in this community fail to understand this.

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51 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

I especially love how you can get a completely different result with the exact same team, tactics and team talk. As if none of those things make the slightest difference.

 

This has been explained to you a thousand times now. 

It's almost as if you have absolutely no understanding of how real football works. 

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11 minutes ago, Nick_CB said:

I try to play for love but ME causes me pain

This could be a blues song from the 1940s

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10 ore fa, BigV ha scritto:

Mods feel free to take this down if you wish as it's not feedback...

I get that feeling sometimes too but you can definetely see the difference. I got lewis cook to 4* and bought dennis zakaria, zakaria within 3 months boosted to 4*, his base stats and DM position was worse off than cook yet still outplayed him. Cook has the better attributes and CA with 5* PA. It's about the players that FIT the SYSTEM. Zakaria fits it better as hes more defensive and useful against better teams that attack me. Still see cook pass better and make more riskier passes than Zakaria with the same role so they certainly mean something.

I wouldn't fully blame the ME but the ball over the top and accurate passing from wide (beta) made it harder to see what you actually want them to do at times. There have been some good plays showed in this thread nd tactics thread with/without "good" players. If the ME was balanced you could easily see the difference (play fm17/18 you'll see the difference quite easily). 

But you are talking about in-game ca-star system, while the original message talk about real-ca.

So in your game your staff could be in error to judge ca players

You have to look at with in-game editor to validate your counter-thesis.

 

I'm in a middle position. 

There are some stats that the ME and the 3d failed to show. Flair, vision, off-the ball, dribbling, Composure above all. While pace and acc. are been overpowered since...ever.

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2 hours ago, Maldini's Heir said:

Like when the other team went down to 10 men and didn’t have a right winger. I concentrated my attacks down the left and then scored from the right. 
 

That makes complete sense though.

 

You attack down the left, meaning your opponents with 10 men have to react to that by shifting their collective defensive shape further to the left. That would then create room on the right hand side of the pitch.

 

And, as @CFuller says, a football team doesn't follow the instructions given by their manager 100% of the time: that'd be absurd. It simply would disallow any creativity from that team.

 

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On 19/12/2019 at 11:46, Neil Brock said:

We don't feel the match engine is broken, unplayable or needs 'fixing'. We'd like to improve it and that's what we're working on.

Having just read through this thread and discovered this, I'm really, really disappointed. My frustration and perseverance with this installment to try and find the fun to justify my full-price purchase that usually brings me 100s of hours of entertainment each year comes down to the match engine. And yet, it appears the developer does not see that it needs a fix.

I really wish I could receive a refund. Steam only allows for purchases under 2 hours. Is there nobody else to contact regarding this?

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I just played another test match. I set up with balanced mentality against a weaker team, at home, but pressing high and urgent, and high defensive line. Until about the 80eth minute, which is when I scored my second goal to make it 2-0, the opponent was playing more defensive, and I did not suffer any of those long balls over the top, none. Then in the last 10+ minutes they switched to 4-4-2 and went very attacking. That's when they started trying those long balls with urgency, and eventually one of them was successful, which created a 1on1 with my keeper but under pressure from one of my center backs, and they missed it. Is it unrealistic that they created that chance? Or when they went very attacking, would it be more realistic for me to pull my defensive line a little back? I think so, even though I am the better team. It is still an option not to do so, and I did not change anything, and as a (imo natural) result of this both teams created more chances in the last 10-15 minutes of the game. 

As I said before, sometimes we all are a bit guilty of coming to a conclusion in a hurry. I am guilty myself of doing that, because I watched countless youtube videos where matches were full of these over the top long balls. However, it is a fact that most human players like to play an attacking style, pressing high up, higher defensive line, and when their AI opponent doesn't go defensive, the result is inevitably what we see. Like some say here, garbage in garbage out. And sometimes the only way to see it is to test it yourself. With more reasonable tactical setup, ME creates more realistic outcomes. 

I am not saying that the number of those accurate long balls are perfectly realistic, but the reason behind them is justified imo.

Edited by bleventozturk

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2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

This has been explained to you a thousand times now. 

It's almost as if you have absolutely no understanding of how real football works. 

I play real football. It doesn’t have a very limited set of tactical instructions and team talk options......

I think despite it being 2020 we’ve  unfortunately not quite arrived at a place where we’ve managed to recreate real football in a computer game. So we can probably leave the “this is how real football works” comments out.

 

 

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1 hour ago, auhsoj said:

That makes complete sense though.

 

You attack down the left, meaning your opponents with 10 men have to react to that by shifting their collective defensive shape further to the left. That would then create room on the right hand side of the pitch.

 

And, as @CFuller says, a football team doesn't follow the instructions given by their manager 100% of the time: that'd be absurd. It simply would disallow any creativity from that team.

 

It doesn’t make any sense because the goal was scored just after I’d told my players to attack down the left. So the defence wouldn’t have readjusted by that stage.

Frankly I’ve come to accept the fact that I’m like my old geography teacher who has given up trying to teach because my students don’t listen to me.

It’s very fulfilling.

I keep my instructions to a minimal. That was one for the first time’s I tried  something a little different and was left throughly unfulfilled. I’ll go back to reading my book while my team carries on without me.

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24 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

It doesn’t make any sense because the goal was scored just after I’d told my players to attack down the left. So the defence wouldn’t have readjusted by that stage.

Frankly I’ve come to accept the fact that I’m like my old geography teacher who has given up trying to teach because my students don’t listen to me.

It’s very fulfilling.

I keep my instructions to a minimal. That was one for the first time’s I tried  something a little different and was left throughly unfulfilled. I’ll go back to reading my book while my team carries on without me.

Here’s a good one. 
 

I tell my players not to close down the CBs and to man mark the DM. This way they can put all of the pressure on the DM.

What happens?

You guessed it. They close down the CB leaving DM free who sets up a goal.

I won the game 3:1 thanks to three goals from my team which were mostly unrelated to my tactics. 
 

Carry on class. I’ll keep reading my book.

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6 hours ago, Maldini's Heir said:

I love a good re-start.

I especially love how you can get a completely different result with the exact same team, tactics and team talk. As if none of those things make the slightest difference.

 

Yeah, because Football matches would all end the same if they are re-played, given that this is a Sports of 90 minutes, but pitifully key seconds, often quite random, settling the Outcome. :D  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_European_Cup_Final Considering that the game likewise sims 90 minutes full, pitifully key seconds deciding the outcome, it would  be concerning if all reloads ended on the same score. It'd mean the game were deterministic, which football isn't . That's why people flock the stands in severe mismatches. Over any one match-up, literally anything goes. As an isolated contest to determine which side was de facto the better of the two, football matches are hopeless. Compared to say tennis, there are far too few points scored.

You may still prefer a deterministic experience. If you restarted say 15-20 times and didn't see a tendency, you may have a Point though.... As argued, a match you actually lost by bad luck you should in tendency win on the next reload immediately. Perfectly logical. One you didn't may be a more tricky affair. And over dozen+ reloads there should be a trend really.

5 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Although I agree with you to a certain extent, I think that some randomness is also needed for realism. 

Interestingly, the game is already set up in a way that makes it less random than football. In parts this has to do with the limited AI mind, which can't "read a match" and simply cycles through the gears. In actual football, managers see eye to eye. On FM, that would only be the case in an online experience, e.g. FM Live back then, which SI themselves were fully aware of was an altogether different beast. In parts this has to do with that it doesn't simulate the more severe finishing streaks though to me, not even once in hundreds of simulations e.g. even CR7, Ibrahimovic et all on the occasion barely scoring for months in the league, despite having umpteenth attempts to do so, just as much as ever. :D 

That said, I think the current one on one / long ball issue in particular adds some unnecessary level of perceived randomness on top.

Edited by Svenc

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41 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Yeah, because Football matches would all end the same if they are re-played, given that this is a Sports of 90 minutes, but pitifully key seconds, often quite random, settling the Outcome. :D  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_European_Cup_Final Considering that the game likewise sims 90 minutes full, pitifully key seconds deciding the outcome, it would  be concerning if all reloads ended on the same score. It'd mean the game were deterministic, which football isn't . That's why people flock the stands in severe mismatches. Over any one match-up, literally anything goes. As an isolated contest to determine which side was de facto the better of the two, football matches are hopeless. Compared to say tennis, there are far too few points scored.

You may still prefer a deterministic experience. If you restarted say 15-20 times and didn't see a tendency, you may have a Point though.... As argued, a match you actually lost by bad luck you should in tendency win on the next reload immediately. Perfectly logical. One you didn't may be a more tricky affair. And over dozen+ reloads there should be a trend really.

Interestingly, the game is already set up in a way that makes it less random than football. In parts this has to do with the limited AI mind, which can't "read a match" and simply cycles through the gears. In actual football, managers see eye to eye. On FM, that would only be the case in an online experience, e.g. FM Live back then, which SI themselves were fully aware of was an altogether different beast. In parts this has to do with that it doesn't simulate the more severe finishing streaks though to me, not even once in hundreds of simulations e.g. even CR7, Ibrahimovic et all on the occasion barely scoring for months in the league, despite having umpteenth attempts to do so, just as much as ever. :D 

That said, I think the current one on one / long ball issue in particular adds some unnecessary level of perceived randomness on top.

I’m a firm believer in luck. In fact it’s probably the closest thing I have to religion.

I believe luck determines most of our lives. Depending on how far you want to go back; if you start at the Big Bang then the probability of us having this conversation right now must be vanishingly small. The only way to explain it is that since the universe is everything, it’s every possibility, including the possibility of us having this conversation right now.

A key part of the luck doctrine is to identify the elements in your life you control and the elements you don’t. This is important. Sometimes very successful people don’t appreciate the luck they have had. Sometimes very unfortunate people blame themselves for bad luck. Equally we shouldn’t ignore the small part that judgment and skill played in a person’s success or failures. 
 

So I get all that. And still I consider that it’s unacceptable for me to constantly be bombarded with bad luck in this game.

I’m top of table (I’ve only re-started two games all season) and just managed to beat 10 men Chievo 1:0 with a last minute goal after my team missed 37 chances. Now normally last minute winners are punching the air moments. But here it was just frustration. Had I not won I was seriously thinking of re-starting because it’s unacceptable for a team to miss 37 chances. That’s not bad luck. That’s just nonsense.

At least restrict my team to 20 missed chances. That would have some connection to reality.

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21 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

I’m top of table (I’ve only re-started two games all season) and just managed to beat 10 men Chievo 1:0 with a last minute goal after my team missed 37 chances. Now normally last minute winners are punching the air moments. But here it was just frustration. Had I not won I was seriously thinking of re-starting because it’s unacceptable for a team to miss 37 chances. That’s not bad luck. That’s just nonsense.

At least restrict my team to 20 missed chances. That would have some connection to reality.

That's not chances, that's shots. Aside of the Long balls, SI should watch those set piece defending in particular to get the numbers some down -- those headers don't result in a goal that regularly anyway (or they should increase their conversion slightly). What was the other match you reloaded like? Plus do you also reload if your Competition Drops the Points?  

 

Speaking of that Atalanta match, anybody who can Show me an FM match with 35 shots from genuinelly open Play as opposed to a set piece wins a very Special Price. Anyone?
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1317965/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2018-2019-Atalanta-Empoli

Edited by Svenc

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(playing since CM93/94 and a founding LLMer..) there have been many many years of threads of people complaining about ME issues, bugs and games released before they should have been. mostly followed by people saying 'well don't buy it then...' (like we actually have a choice!)  

SIgames are so much better than they used to be; recent versions have been much more playable on the day of release than back in the day. which makes it all the more disappointing to see FM take such a huge backwards step with FM20.

The current ME makes this version unplayable (long balls through the middle issue, terrible CCC conversion... etc') and I'm going to have to put it down until the issues are resolved. 

I've been playing some version this game for 25 years. (!!)

People get more upset about FM when it's not right because it is the greatest sports sim ever made, but also because we have to put so much (time, effort, commitment, attention to detail etc') into the game. When you realize the game you're putting hundreds of hours into is a pre patch bust it's a real kick in the nuts (especially when you're grinding it out in the Conference South!).

I hope SI work this out quickly, FM20 has a ton of potential, but it seems like there are some deep and fundamental ME challenges that need to be resolved. 

 

 

Edited by ReturnofReb

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12 hours ago, bcereus said:

This is what I think they should be concentrating on, a complete rewrite of the match engine where players have more control. The match engine right now is just way too random, player stats don't matter and instructions are mostly ignored.

It leads to frustration because you have presented problems for the user and no way to combat it.

A good game presents you with problems and gives you the tools to solve it. The match engine ignores player instructions and also player stats. So you can't tell you players not to do something and you can't buy better players to solve that problem.

What's the user supposed to do? I really would not have minded the over the top balls if there was an ingame solution but there isn't, you can reduce them but even then they are way too effective.

This!

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55 minutes ago, Svenc said:

That's not chances, that's shots. Aside of the Long balls, SI should watch those set piece defending in particular to get the numbers some down -- those headers don't result in a goal that regularly anyway (or they should increase their conversion slightly).

Absolutely agree with this.

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52 minutes ago, Svenc said:

That's not chances, that's shots. Aside of the Long balls, SI should watch those set piece defending in particular to get the numbers some down -- those headers don't result in a goal that regularly anyway (or they should increase their conversion slightly). What was the other match you reloaded like? Plus do you also reload if your Competition Drops the Points?  

 

Speaking of that Atalanta match, anybody who can Show me an FM match with 35 shots from genuinelly open Play as opposed to a set piece wins a very Special Price. Anyone?
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1317965/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2018-2019-Atalanta-Empoli

That’s not chances?

Well that’s just rubbish.

How can a stat based game not accurately describe one of the most basic stats.

Anyway in these games I’m also treated to highlights of players missing endless chances.

There are no rules to re-starting matches. It’s borne out of frustration. Re-starting makes the frustration go away. I won’t get through seasons if I penalise myself for re-starts. It already caused me to re-start careers when I felt guilty about re-starts. Now I just accept it’s part of a flawed experience with a flawed game.

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9 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

That’s not chances?

Well that’s just rubbish.

How can a stat based game not accurately describe one of the most basic stats.

Any shot is a chance -- the Question is how big it may be. ;) The game has specific stats for "chances", though indeed they are quite rubbish. If your main issue are the Long balls/one on oneish, then there is hope for you after a patch. If not, probably not. 

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21 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Any shot is a chance -- the Question is how big it may be. ;) The game has specific stats for "chances", though indeed they are quite rubbish. If your main issue are the Long balls/one on oneish, then there is hope for you after a patch. If not, probably not. 

The 1v1 thing is one of my main issues.

But I think the overall issue is just the lack of joy in the game. 
 

I’m winning games but they’re an absolute chore. That Chievo game could’ve been a nice enjoyable dominant win but again it was another chore.

Just beaten Arsenal 3:0 overturning a 2:0 first leg. And then came crashing down to earth losing to Lazio 3:0. Even though I only had 4 chances and they had 11, I got asked about all of my missed chances. The game seems to just want to wind me up all of the time.

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This year, I'm really looking forward to the Winter transfers patch.

With all the manager changes, over-performing teams to be reflected to the game, possible big name signings (Haaland deal done already) and small tweaks to the ME; we can start our ultimate save.

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1 hour ago, Maldini's Heir said:

Just beaten Arsenal 3:0 overturning a 2:0 first leg. And then came crashing down to earth losing to Lazio 3:0. Even though I only had 4 chances and they had 11, I got asked about all of my missed chances. The game seems to just want to wind me up all of the time.

Seriously dude, go and do something else, this game is really NOT for you. 

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12 часов назад, Jibby123 сказал:

Glad they fixed that. Been banging on about it for years. Maybe 1 game is too few but it's a lot better than it was set up in previous versions of FM. 

C'mon it's really good! :) Oh you remind me to check what about silver and bronze for players in milestones!

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