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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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2 hours ago, lloyd1990 said:

I believe FM18 used a brand new ME

 

8 minutes ago, prot651 said:

FM17 was the best match engine but im not sure they used a new match engine after .

The ME gets updates and sections get re-writes every year. The ME wasn't 'new' though. The Graphics Engine was new in FM18, but that is completely different to the ME, animations, lighting and the graphics itself.

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Okay, another question, it isn't maybe fm20 related, but would like to know the answer.

When you buy a player for some fee plus bonuses. The bonuses are after league appearences and goal leagues. When you sell him before he activates these bonuses, what happens with these bonuses? Are they cancelled or they are still active regardless the player are not in your club anymore.

 

It's a silly question, but never thought about that, so wanna know the answer.

 

Thanks! :) 

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

 

The ME gets updates and sections get re-writes every year. The ME wasn't 'new' though. The Graphics Engine was new in FM18, but that is completely different to the ME, animations, lighting and the graphics itself.

Yeah this is what I was advised but then its weird if this is the case how FM17 was a good ME but now it seems to have become worse 

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Who is better..a coach with great attributes but 2 star rep, or a coach with ****** attributes but 4 star rep? 

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8 hours ago, bahrami said:

It's a real shame SI can't fix this before Christmas, it's going to be driving away a lot of users.

I don’t think it’s a likely scenario. People will play the game even if they consciously know it’s bugged. Which is a good thing for SI but not so good for the regular player who demanded improvements in specific areas of the game.

I’ve said it before, the game generates more profit from year to year so it’s a good indicator that it’s doing its job. Why would they alter their business strategy?

It’s only my opinion of course but I feel the gaming industry, just like the modern football, has sold its soul in an attempt to generate as much profit as possible. The passionate vibe has disappeared and it’s now only about the cash, no matter how they get it. Sad (not talking about a particular gaming company here, it’s a common theme).

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5 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I'm sure you'd be able to hand them the money to do this then, right? Because I'm pretty sure if SI could afford to hire more people to develop their premier title to make it better in all aspects, given the level of passion shown by the likes of Miles, they would do.

Sadly, although a lot of people are playing FM at any one time on Steam, it's still a small purchaser base - it just looks like a lot because there are a significant number of people who only, or mostly, play FM, compared to other games where they sell 4-5 times the number of copies as FM, but people stop playing it after a month or two.

To be fair, SI mentioned that FM19 sold a record number of copies, which I'm sure has given them an incresed budget to develop the ME further ;) 

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1 hour ago, luka_ said:

Who is better..a coach with great attributes but 2 star rep, or a coach with ****** attributes but 4 star rep? 

Attributes are more important.

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2 hours ago, Bakiano said:

Okay, another question, it isn't maybe fm20 related, but would like to know the answer.

When you buy a player for some fee plus bonuses. The bonuses are after league appearences and goal leagues. When you sell him before he activates these bonuses, what happens with these bonuses? Are they cancelled or they are still active regardless the player are not in your club anymore.

 

It's a silly question, but never thought about that, so wanna know the answer.

 

Thanks! :) 

I would have thought that all bonuses would only be active while the player was under contract with you, so would automatically y stop on being sold.

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15 minutes ago, FrazT said:

I would have thought that all bonuses would only be active while the player was under contract with you, so would automatically y stop on being sold.

I was thinking the same, just wanted to know is this correct.

 

Thanks!

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One issue I would like to raise. Not a bug, but its something that occurs year after year and would like to get some feedback on it. Resting of players during a tight schedule: For me personally, if I for example have to play three games in 9 days, and I can't rotate my squad to a big extent (in the current save thats because my number 13-20 in terms of quality are really bad) I like to rest my players for two days between games. I would guess a lot of other players do that as well, and some might view this not to be beneficial as I guess it gives your team less match preperations than optimal. 

But the oppositon doesn't seem to give their players any rest of all? During a busy match programme I tend to always face opposition teams that start the game with several players on 75-85% in condition, while my players are on 92-94%. It seems like a big advantage over the AI? 

 

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2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We've been trying to hire coders for quite a while, you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to find people - https://www.sigames.com/careers

Even specifically for the Match Engine - https://www.sigames.com/careers/match-technologies-programmer

 

Definitely hard, specially experts in C++. People might know pieces of it but mastering C++ is rare currently i think, so many other languages is used. Have to take into account also that new person might not see the code sameway and maybe SI have lost the best coders who where bringing stability to match engine. I have seen companies programs pummeling down for almost a year as lead coders leave and noone can fill their boots.

Just out of curiosity is there any hope to apply outside of UK(from EU country) for job in SI?

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Why must there be a corner conceeding bug in every release. Until FM 18 defenders were making wildly inaccurate passes to the goalkeepers, this year we have defenders blasting the ball for a corner when there is clear opportunity to kick it for a throw in or up the field.

Edited by yezzko
typos

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51 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Definitely hard, specially experts in C++. People might know pieces of it but mastering C++ is rare currently i think, so many other languages is used. Have to take into account also that new person might not see the code sameway and maybe SI have lost the best coders who where bringing stability to match engine. I have seen companies programs pummeling down for almost a year as lead coders leave and noone can fill their boots.

Just out of curiosity is there any hope to apply outside of UK(from EU country) for job in SI?

Yes absolutely, we've hired people from various countries in the past. Just off the top of my head I know of at least ten different nationalities working on FM, but sure there's probably more than that. 

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27 dakika önce, Neil Brock said:

Yes absolutely, we've hired people from various countries in the past. Just off the top of my head I know of at least ten different nationalities working on FM, but sure there's probably more than that. 

Do you need testers? :)

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I can understand the frustration from some people here but hey look at it positively atleast this christmas is en excellent opportunity to be with family and friends instead. All we can do is be patient now and hope its a good update that comes in march. 

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I really can't stress enough how much I disagree with the negative opinions of the ME in this thread.

I truly hope that Si don't relent to the noisy hordes and treat any update objectively.

The parallels with Brexit in this thread is astounding.

Edited by Os

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11 hours ago, Svenc said:

Aye, due to the long ball defending, such scenarios are much more common than in actual Football. @themadsheep2001 Which shot map do you mean specifically? I've done them for in-game Matches and typically mark the blue dots as set piece attempts (pressured headers, etc.), and mark the one on oneish in red. This Shows that in-game they oft, but not Always tend to be finished at tighter angles rather than premium zones (in parts also due to not Players squaring it). As well as that during Matches with a lot of SOT with Little Goals, it is easy to come by and accurate set piece attempts (pressured headers mostly saved) inflating those numbers. This seems be overlooked, in large parts because the game doesn't make a statistical distinction here from the off. 

In fact, I've just been forwarded another couple Matches of this irk. Ever since release you could turn this into a piece of FM art and highlight where the current main issues are. Red dots again, 1vs1ish, blue dots the set pieces. The shot circled in Purple is a one on one of which the Goal was scored -- a central one, which probably was not coincidence, but that is one for the main coder/s to answer.

Hn4QDBh.png
QypxGQF.png

MplRI24.png

The one on ones tend to bunch in numbers in particular at an angle, the set piece headers in Matches with Little Goals tend to be amongst the few shots within reasonable range and in the most dangerous zones, which is centrally Right in front of the Goal.

 

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One of the biggest problems at the moment for me and my friend is matches against teams what are bottom 6'ish teams. It feels like is the tactic what ever you cant get a goal anywhere and opposition scores from only spot. And this is not only two or three games.. there is a clear pattern that you will suffer when lower position team is against you. Ai got the same problems with these low position teams.. just look last seasons last 5 games from stages and stats.

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56 minutes ago, Svenc said:

In fact, I've just been forwarded another couple Matches of this irk. Ever since release you could turn this into a piece of FM art and highlight where the current main issues are. Red dots again, 1vs1ish, blue dots the set pieces. The shot circled in Purple is a one on one of which the Goal was scored -- a central one, which probably was not coincidence, but that is one for the main coder/s to answer.

Hn4QDBh.png
QypxGQF.png

MplRI24.png

The one on ones tend to bunch in numbers in particular at an angle, the set piece headers in Matches with Little Goals tend to be amongst the few shots within reasonable range and in the most dangerous zones, which is centrally Right in front of the Goal.

 

Thanks for this Sven. As an aside, and probably one for FM21, more finishing variations will be key in striker conversion. And will allow for more player differentiation between players 

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I'm 3 point a head of the competition with a 58 GD vs 28, so seems a bit silly that the game say I can drop down to 2nd place with a loss.

 

It's impossible for them to score 30 goals in one match, so they can't move ahead of us and it's the Spanish League and I beat the team, so I've ahead on head to head and if I understand the rules even if they had better GD I would still win on head to head, so it's not just require impossible result on the pitch, it is LITERALLY impossible for them to get ahead of us.

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2 hours ago, PeterC86 said:

Hi,

 

I opened an account here some time ago, because I was doubting wether to buy this new version or not and I wanted to raise the issues I have with the series. First of, I must say that in general you guys have put a wonderful game together, looking back where you've started. The series has really developed over these 25+ years! However, since the last 4 or 5 versions, I see some stabilization and reoccurance of issues, which have become annoying enough for me to raise them...

I linked to the post where I raised the main issues I have with the series as of late. Now FM19 was an enjoyable game, despite the issues that I've mentioned. I however didn't buy the new version up until now, because the previous versions were quite buggy upon release. With buggy I mainly mean; a poor ME. Now I can imagine that some of these issues and the ME are not easy to fix as everything in the game, I get that. But if you don't have the people to get them fixed properly, the issue seems to be deeper imbedded in the organisation. The thing is that people, me including, are not willing to pay 50 euros every year for a product which is not finished. People put a lot of time and energy into playing this game, which is when the game is good quite rewarding, however, when the game is not good, this becomes quite annoying, especially when this happens multiple years in a row. Now I don't know how the financials are at your company, but you must understand that your salaries are paid by us. This game has a committed community, and a lot of players buy this game every year or every two or three years. If the company keeps putting out a product which is not finished, or do not listen enough to the feedback given by the community, or communicate in a transparent way, this company digs its own grave. The time where customers are silent buyers , and a company can do whatever it wants, without being transparent about it, lie behind us (luckily).  Either you realize this and work with the community to make this product great again, or the community falls apart and this product dies.  Looking through this topic, I will wait to buy this game, and if I do, I am definitely not spending 50 euros, not because I don't think the game is not worth it, it would just set a wrong incentive.

Just to clarify, there's a post at the top of this thread dealing with both communication and feedback. Would appreciate if people read that before posting if possible. 

If people want to talk about openness and transparency then this forum needs to be accepting of what's being said by the moderating team and the developers when they make posts It cuts both ways and this forum, while important and a great source, is only small percentage of the overall player base. 

You talk about working with the community, but it's difficult for the developers if rather than engaging in constructive communication, there are insults and falsehoods being stated in threads like these. And sadly that's no exaggeration. 

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2 minutes ago, PeterC86 said:

The thing is, that you seeing it as toxic is the wrong way to look at it. It could very well be that the majority of the people on this forum are 14-18 year old youngsters, who are just venting their frustrations in an emotional immature way, however, they do take the time and energy to do this (this shows that they are committed).

The points they raise are still valid, besides from how, and how often, they bring it. It is upon the company and its people, including the moderators, on how they deal with this. 

And saying that openness and transparancy should be dependent upon the maturity of its community, to me, this seems to be the worst way to deal with it. Okay this is going to take up more time than I intended, but here we go;

I read somewhere that the moderators are volunteers, is that right? If this is the case, this is the first problem, as you as a moderator are not really part of the organisation, but have to deal first handedly with the community. So you have to feel responsible for something which you are not really part of. This puts you as a moderator in an akward position, as you are not really sure who you should speak for. 

This also shows that SI does not take the community that seriously, as they are not willing to pay for moderators who can speak for the company.

Might help to read this  :  

 

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6 minutes ago, PeterC86 said:

The thing is, you seeing it as toxic is the wrong way to look at it. It could very well be that the majority of the people on this forum are 14-18 year old youngsters, who are just venting their frustrations in an emotional immature way, however, they do take the time and energy to do this (this shows that they are committed).

The points they raise are still valid, besides from how, and how often, they bring it. It is upon the company and its people, including the moderators, on how they deal with this. 

And saying that openness and transparancy should be dependent upon the maturity of its community, to me, this seems to be the worst way to deal with it. Okay this is going to take up more time than I intended, but here we go;

I read somewhere that the moderators are volunteers, is that right? If this is the case, this is the first problem, as you as a moderator are not really part of the organisation, but have to deal first handedly with the community. So you have to feel responsible for something which you are not really part of. This puts you as a moderator in an akward position, as you are not really sure who you should speak for. 

This also shows that SI does not take the community that seriously, as they are not willing to pay for moderators who can speak for the company with the community.

No, toxic is exactly what it is. And we're not in an awkward position. The fact that you think we need to worry about who to speak for is exactly the problem. This isn't a play ground, there aren't sides. And the sooner everyone realises this the better. 

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1 hour ago, Pasonen said:

One of the biggest problems at the moment for me and my friend is matches against teams what are bottom 6'ish teams. It feels like is the tactic what ever you cant get a goal anywhere and opposition scores from only spot. And this is not only two or three games.. there is a clear pattern that you will suffer when lower position team is against you. Ai got the same problems with these low position teams.. just look last seasons last 5 games from stages and stats.

Why would they be in a 'low position' if neither you nor the AI can beat them?

If a team is in the bottom 6, they've clearly lost more matches than they've won. If your own team is struggling to break them down, that's down to you I'm afraid. 

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39 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Might help to read this  :  

 

This, and it's tiresome people deliberately misrepresenting stuff. It needs to stop or action will be taken as described 

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9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This, and it's tiresome people deliberately misrepresenting stuff. It needs to stop or action will be taken as described 

My responses are not really directed at you.

I know you are only doing this out of passion for the game, and you are doing the best you can in the situation that is presented to you! Thanks for taking up that role!

My responses are aimed at the people in charge in the company. They have put you in this position, which is causing frustrations at your end, as well as at the end of the customer. It would be great if you could make them aware of this.

Edited by PeterC86

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50 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Why would they be in a 'low position' if neither you nor the AI can beat them?

If a team is in the bottom 6, they've clearly lost more matches than they've won. If your own team is struggling to break them down, that's down to you I'm afraid. 

Perhaps only partially. Breaking good low blocks requires movement in front of the defensive line. This feels like an area for improvement. Needs more play into that golden zone in front of the defence.   

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13 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

Looks like there is a new patch out. When can we expect the patchnotes?

It's like a 1 byte patch ^^

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Tested my new tactic, sometimes this ME create something that I watch and enjoy

But in prev/next moment it could be like switch turned and something crazy going on. And there are no about results or scores. I mean only decisions and content.

 

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22 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Perhaps only partially. Breaking good low blocks requires movement in front of the defensive line. This feels like an area for improvement. Needs more play into that golden zone in front of the defence.   

Or everyone is using work ball into box and giving the AI too much time to settle in its low block

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9 hours ago, Bakiano said:

Okay, another question, it isn't maybe fm20 related, but would like to know the answer.

When you buy a player for some fee plus bonuses. The bonuses are after league appearences and goal leagues. When you sell him before he activates these bonuses, what happens with these bonuses? Are they cancelled or they are still active regardless the player are not in your club anymore.

 

It's a silly question, but never thought about that, so wanna know the answer.

 

Thanks! :) 

I believe those bonuses go away. That's why it's useful, if you're buying a youth player who may develop into a superstar, but isn't guaranteed, to make as much of the transfer fee as possible reliant on him playing 20 matches internationally and 50 matches for you, because if he never develops to his full potential and you end up selling him on, you don't have to pay those parts.

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3 minutes ago, Optimistic Dave said:

Disappointing that the player stats in match are now useless. Only passing stats, nothing else and all the different views are the same.

I assume you mean Attributes? I had a very hard time at my former club. We just didn't have the attributes to compete and it showed. I'm at a better club now and I'm supposed to be one of the better teams in the league - and it shows.

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2 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Or everyone is using work ball into box and giving the AI too much time to settle in its low block

I don't know what context this is in but surely IRL teams can still bypass and score by using working the ball into the box. If im not mistaken a tip of old/present still states working the ball "can" help score against lesser oppositions- assuming they sit in low blocks which most do against bigger teams. 

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9 minutes ago, BigV said:

I don't know what context this is in but surely IRL teams can still bypass and score by using working the ball into the box. If im not mistaken a tip of old/present still states working the ball "can" help score against lesser oppositions- assuming they sit in low blocks which most do against bigger teams. 

When the ingame- tip for WBIB comes up it states that WBIB can be counter intuitive against teams sitting in a low block. Personally my favourite is actually to hit them before they settle into a low block which means hitting them in the transition, that's when they are likely to make more mistakes. For example you give them space to attack somewhere on the pitch, they build their attack and fail just as they move into midfield.

It can work against weak teams, work ball into box, but its also dangerous, because if their low block has players who have good positioning or jumping reach, they can deal with at least one kind of threat. Only today I played against a system with 3DMs and 4 defenders, and the only way I got around them was to use hit early cross before they settled into defence. I also ended up playing with narrow defensive width, to encourage them to go down my flanks.  Since we were the stronger side in midfield i did the press in midfield and hit them with early crosses to get in behind. 

So its contextual. When do you use WBIB? And, is it the go-to for breaking down defensive systems? I haven't resorted to WBIB since FM19 against very defensive sides. It actually kinda interesting, I really wouldn't have thought of this had i not been spending so much time in Italy and Portugal where defensive systems are rampant. I can't speak for everyone, at least only for myself. 

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The job application process takes far too long.

Took over a month from application to even get an interview, during the off season. At which point, you're missing out on transfers, contract renewals, etc.

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10 minutes ago, It's Baggio said:

The job application process takes far too long.

Took over a month from application to even get an interview, during the off season. At which point, you're missing out on transfers, contract renewals, etc.

It does my head in when someone on here says it happens in real life......But, I'm a Wednesday fan, we took an absolute age to appoint Monk when Bruce left in pre-season.......

Edited by janrzm

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3 minutes ago, janrzm said:

It does my head in when someone on here says it happens in real life......But, I'm a Wednesday fan, we took an absolute age to appoint Monk when Bruce left in pre-season.......

I'm sure there are exceptions and in that case, the circumstances were a little different.

However, every time I've applied for jobs it takes ages. Clubs sack their managers at the seasons close, then don't do anything until pre-season has started again.

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Not sure where would be the right place to ask so i am going to leave it here.

Got a job in Germany at Bayer L. in 2021. Its 2026 now, we are now CL team, value of the club is 1.5B, stadium capacity is 30.210, average attendance for the last season was 30.011, season before 29.114.

So finances are great, fans are there, but i dont have an option to ask for new stadium. Current stadium was built in 1958. Is there something about Bayer L. or maybe Germany as a country that doesnt allow me to ask for a new stadium??

Thanks.

 

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1 minute ago, It's Baggio said:

I'm sure there are exceptions and in that case, the circumstances were a little different.

However, every time I've applied for jobs it takes ages. Clubs sack their managers at the seasons close, then don't do anything until pre-season has started again.

I was just making the point that it happens and that there should be variances between the time/speed at which clubs make decisions. If you think you're seeing a pattern of clubs being unresponsive and acting without the kind of urgency you'd expect  I'd definitely report it as a potential bug. Nothing will happen to your comment in this thread.

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4 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I believe those bonuses go away. That's why it's useful, if you're buying a youth player who may develop into a superstar, but isn't guaranteed, to make as much of the transfer fee as possible reliant on him playing 20 matches internationally and 50 matches for you, because if he never develops to his full potential and you end up selling him on, you don't have to pay those parts.

I always making offers in bonuses in half of the fee. Sometimes it is maybe 60-40%.

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