Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[alian62]

15 minutes ago, gechal said:

Just thought I'd post these goals my counter attacking side scored, nice variety of goals, great to see. Apologies for the crude video, no idea how to upload 

 

Great interception by Celso for a end to end goal 

[Trent71]

I remember last time I moaned against the ME, I was convinced that strikers are pre-disposed to "balance" goals between them and no one can have a Ronaldo-like season in-game - after posting that ranting thread, I had a beast of a newgen at Blackburn who ended with 53 goals in 37-38 appearances (was on FM17 or FM18)  

 

I've made it a rule afterwards not to speak out rashly! 

 

Imagine Sterling's last-second miss against Newcastle - passing it to the keeper like that, how many people would lose their cool should it happen in-game?

[Iakovenko]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We don't feel the match engine is broken, unplayable or needs 'fixing'. We'd like to improve it and that's what we're working on.

We released the Pre-Release Beta with a match engine, got feedback and made adjustments to improve certain areas, but as we've said elsewhere making changes has the potential for knock-ons. We still feel the balance and the output of the match engine (in terms of results, goals per game etc) are very close to real life. We've said there are some areas of the game we feel could improve further if we can and that's what we're working on currently. 

It might not be unplayable but it's certainly not enjoyable, which for me is the same thing. 

I only watch key highlights and rely on match stats to let me know where I have problems and I find the stats this year are absolutely no help. The amount of games with 15 cc that have come from long balls over the top resulting in a missed one on one is absurd.

Maybe the scores and results reflect real life but the match stats definitely don't. 

 

[Kev Gee]

Good afternoon!!

 

Ive been playing CM/FM since the Amiga days.

 

Ive had a couple of years off as I didnt have the time to commit (started a  family, new job etc)

Anyways.... Ive bought the game this year and here are my first impressions.

 

One on Ones........ Its almost impossible to score with these.  I would say a less than 2 in 10 ratio. Ive had tried eveyything. changing tactics, formations.. players... everything and NOTHING seems to work. 

Whats going on?!

 

Through balls.........

My team are constantly split open by through balls. Again no matter what I do... nothing seems to work.

 

Strikers diagonal shots from box corner rarely score.......

Almost like my £80 million pound striker cant score diagonally across the keeper.

Again nothing I do seems to change this.

 

Shouts.....

Again they seem to have no effect at all

 

Press conferences...........

Again a total waste of time. Not changed in years. Whats the point?

 

Started Season 2, but im already losing faith in this version.

 

Come on SI!! Your better than this!!

 

Just played my last match.... At home and opposition have 2 players sent off in the first half and are winning 1-0. I throw absolutley everything at them. The game ends 1-0.

Very concerning.................

 

I havent posted on the forum in years (infact my old account was deactivated...) But I felt I needed to come on here & share my thoughts...

 

 

[KUBI]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Trent71:

I remember last time I moaned against the ME, I was convinced that strikers are pre-disposed to "balance" goals between them and no one can have a Ronaldo-like season in-game - after posting that ranting thread, I had a beast of a newgen at Blackburn who ended with 53 goals in 37-38 appearances (was on FM17 or FM18)  

I've made it a rule afterwards not to speak out rashly! 

Imagine Sterling's last-second miss against Newcastle - passing it to the keeper like that, how many people would lose their cool should it happen in-game?

Players failing miserable and also horrible mistakes are part of football and should also be part of the ME. 

But if there is evidence that one error happens too often or regularly this is something to look at. That is why posting into the bugs forum is important for the dev. team. Some "obvious" bugs needs various angles to look at, when you want to find the best solution for it.

[motdattan]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We don't feel the match engine is broken, unplayable or needs 'fixing'.

Everything that's wrong about SI fit into one sentence. ^^

[Vali184]

5 minutes ago, motdattan said:

Everything that's wrong about SI fit into one sentence. ^^

Well, Neil is right. It's just that every version of the ME favors a certain tactical style, which we may like or may not like. If they somehow manage to make players pass more or cross the ball in counters(can this be related to players' partnerships?) and improve defending against long balls, I'll be happy.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Vali184

[jbricandy]

22 hours ago, regainer said:

Feedback:
 

• The pressing system needs to be adressed. It is not normal that every player you press can handle the press like Xavi Hernandez. I do understand IF you don't have players for the pressing system, but when you have a tactic that the players are perfect for the pressing system and you meet worthless teams that seem to play tiki-taka around you, you just know that the game is broken.
• Defensive free kicks and corners. It's not realistic that the opposition creates so many chances on those.
• 1on1s against keeper.
• Long balls over defenders are just ridiculous (tried low backline, still too many long balls over defenders)

Yeah pressing is something that seems less effective than it should be (than it is in real life), and that is frustrating, especially as one of the default tactical styles is gegenpress. 

[Kev Gee]

16 hours ago, enricoix said:

First of all let me say : with the introduction of each patch, the game gets to a better state. Even with a slow pace, you are trying to reach there. But why is that so??

I mean, you made 2019 playable after numerous patches and this year we had 2020 full of bugs at release. (and unfortunately still so)
For me, games that you release recently (especially the last two versions) were really really buggy. And I am talking about game changing bugs here.
Issues like strikers not scoring or attacking movement problems of 2019 / absurd angle shots or 1v1s of 2020.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that you haven't detected those kind of clear issues during testing.
So my answer is : either you haven't genuinely detected them (which would be a real concern!) or you detected but didn't have time to eliminate until release.
In any case, it seems to me that there is definitely something wrong with your testing team or the testing process. (which needs to be much more efficient)

I ask for a very simple thing from you as a consumer : Release a game bug free (or at least at minimum). Personally I prefer to wait more than getting the game at a buggy state.

Let me make a small list of issues that I can think of : (these are my opinions & observations only)

- First and foremost, I think that the game is VERY easy
- 1v1 scoring ratio is extremely low
- 1v1 opportunities are very frequent
- There are lots of pinball type of ball movements hitting the players again and again (is there a problem regarding ball versus player volumes?)
- Too many successful back to defense long passes (which leads to frequent 1v1s and ends with very low 1v1 scoring ratio apparently)
- When two players are through on goal, player with the ball almost never pass to more open teammate but shoot
- Too many missed penalties
- Game seems more generous for the team that has less shots in order just to keep the match exciting (many examples like : shots 37 on target 13 / shots 6 on target 2. Final score 1-1)
- As manager, I end up as a favorite person very fast

Well, looking at the big picture : Above I said that the game gets better with each patch but I can't help to think "to which extent?"
This is a game that I play for more than 20 years (like good amount of you out there)
I checked my playing hours at Steam as of 2012. They are mainly above 350h and some close to 450h margin. I see that I have played 2020 for 132h. And I feel cold already. (generally I used to get cold from FM in Feb)

FM is a game that I buy in advance every single year. Even with the flaws, this is a great game but I am considering not buying it next year (at least not until patch no.9)

Here are some suggestions from a fellow fan :
I have no idea about your agenda but I believe that you should take some drastic actions. When you just take a small look at the voice of the community here, behind every discussions and arguments, you would see that there is a consensus about one thing (for a looong time). Poor ME.
So, start working on a new ME from scratch, better the graphics (let's not fool ourselves, 3D is not at 2020s level), build a new interface if necessary.
There must be brilliant minds out there. Use innovation and ambition to make it happen. You were the pioneers of the genre. You had increased the bar before, make it happen again.

Finally, as a faithful consumer and a fan of the series, I sincerely ask you : don't lose me, don't lose long-time consumers & fans like me...because it's where you are heading. 

 

Agreed with this from my first impressions.

Either SI genuinely can't see an issue with the above problems. (Concerning) Or they don't give a monkeys and are happy to take the £ year after year. The issue with this is eventually they will be in for a shock. And to use a comparison with Labours general election defeat. They have come to expect a certain demographics vote. (FM purchase every year) and eventually those voters (FM buyers) say they've had enough and go elsewhere.....

 

I never read this forum before I played the game so it came as a shock to find that it wasn't just me being rubbish at FM and there are actually the same issues experienced by other players.

[mutwale]

I have played championship manager/football manager since 1992 and this is the first time i uninstall the new game and install previous version, that´s how bad this years version is, i am sorry to say, i really hope there will an update coming out soon that will make the game fun to play, as it used to be.

[themadsheep2001]

19 minutes ago, motdattan said:

Everything that's wrong about SI fit into one sentence. ^^

A perfect example of what we've just been talking about, sadly

[HUNT3R]

14 minutes ago, Kev Gee said:

Either SI genuinely can't see an issue with the above problems. (Concerning) Or they don't give a monkeys and are happy to take the £ year after year.

OR it's neither. They've posted (and it's highlighted at the top of the page) feedback to us about where things are regarding the game and specifically the ME.

 

[yandex]

What about the heavily inflated shots per game, shots on target etc. It's way, way too high.

[esca]

20.2.3 Update coming soon? New ME or just hotfix?

[Vali184]

20.2.3 is out!

[deaks500]

27 minutes ago, motdattan said:

Everything that's wrong about SI fit into one sentence. ^^

But its not unplayable broken or needs fixing - there are issues which can be improved which may lead to people to not enjoy it - thats fine -  but its not unplayable or broken as there are plenty of people playing it and are happy with the ME .

[Neil Brock]

All the details here - https://community.sigames.com/topic/508662-football-manager-2020-hotfix-2023-out-now/

If you want info about the match engine and current progress please read here - https://community.sigames.com/topic/503206-football-manager-2020-feedback-thread/page/85/?tab=comments#comment-12183475

Thanks. 

[Tiger666]

2 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

20.2.3 is out!

Just stability fixes it seems.

- Stability fixes
- Fixes for those unable to see In-Game Editor when activated

[yandex]

2 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

Just stability fixes it seems.

- Stability fixes
- Fixes for those unable to see In-Game Editor when activated

Yep. Most years I've spent much of my christmas holidays playing FM. That's out of the window this year. Can't play the game in this state, the ME is abysmal (that is my personal opinion). I don't need to see world class strikers miss 5 1v1s per game. Nor do I need to see 5 1v1s created every game in the first place.

Edited December 19, 2019 by yandex

[GOODNAME]

Damm I hoped for ME changes  I was so hyped lol

 

[Issy]

Il y a 2 heures, Neil Brock a dit :

We don't feel the match engine is broken, unplayable or needs 'fixing'. We'd like to improve it and that's what we're working on.

We released the Pre-Release Beta with a match engine, got feedback and made adjustments to improve certain areas, but as we've said elsewhere making changes has the potential for knock-ons. We still feel the balance and the output of the match engine (in terms of results, goals per game etc) are very close to real life. We've said there are some areas of the game we feel could improve further if we can and that's what we're working on currently. 

So why put a match engine in the game if the most important for you is that the results & goals are the same as in real life?

Most people here buy this game for its tactical aspect otherwise we would only simulate the games...

[Dagenham_Dave]

Hmmm, if I could adorn my own tinfoil hat for a second. 

A 300+ MB update for 'stability' fixes and something around the in-game editor? 

Seems legit. But wait, there was also an update of almost exactly the same size for FM Touch - which doesn't have any editor in it at all. 

Are SI toying with people and sneaking out a cheeky ME update, but not saying anything about it to gauge the reaction on here? Top trolling if so. 

[Tiger666]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Hmmm, if I could adorn my own tinfoil hat for a second. 

A 300+ MB update for 'stability' fixes and something around the in-game editor? 

Seems legit. But wait, there was also an update of almost exactly the same size for FM Touch - which doesn't have any editor in it at all. 

Are SI toying with people and sneaking out a cheeky ME update, but not saying anything about it to gauge the reaction on here? Top trolling if so. 

I doubt it but if there's more than stablity fixes and the editor thing, I fail to see why they should be so secretive about it.

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Issy said:

So why put a match engine in the game if the most important for you is that the results & goals are the same as in real life?

You're taking what Neil said and jumping to your own conclusions. SI not only try to balance the engine in terms of all stats (incl passes, tackles, offsides etc) across leagues all over the world, top and bottom, but they also play the game, so use the 'eye test' when judging matches too.

[andu1]

Can't say I am not dissapointed about no ME updates and one thing I can't understand is why they rushed 20.2 at the start of Dec when the 20.1.4 ME was not so bad that needed such a quick update. We could have had a ME update today and the stability fixes before... Doesn't make much sense to me

[Burhan]

4 dakika önce, Dagenham_Dave said:

Hmmm, if I could adorn my own tinfoil hat for a second. 

A 300+ MB update for 'stability' fixes and something around the in-game editor? 

Seems legit. But wait, there was also an update of almost exactly the same size for FM Touch - which doesn't have any editor in it at all. 

Are SI toying with people and sneaking out a cheeky ME update, but not saying anything about it to gauge the reaction on here? Top trolling if so. 

 

ME version still same in game...

[andu1]

5 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Hmmm, if I could adorn my own tinfoil hat for a second. 

A 300+ MB update for 'stability' fixes and something around the in-game editor? 

Seems legit. But wait, there was also an update of almost exactly the same size for FM Touch - which doesn't have any editor in it at all. 

Are SI toying with people and sneaking out a cheeky ME update, but not saying anything about it to gauge the reaction on here? Top trolling if so. 

It says ME 2026 so no updates to Me. 

[Yohann88260]

ME Beta disponible lisez un peu ;-)

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, andu1 said:

It says ME 2026 so no updates to Me. 

That's what they want you to think. 

[Issy]

il y a 2 minutes, HUNT3R a dit :

You're taking what Neil said and jumping to your own conclusions. SI not only try to balance the engine in terms of all stats (incl passes, tackles, offsides etc) across leagues all over the world, top and bottom, but they also play the game, so use the 'eye test' when judging matches too.

Yeah, i'm frustrated. But its the first time in 10 years i come complain... then it must means that the game is "unplayable".

[HUNT3R]

"Top bantz" but the ME really hasn't changed. Please don't lead people on. The thread is bad enough as it is.

[andu1]

4 minutes ago, Yohann88260 said:

ME Beta disponible lisez un peu ;-)

what are on about?

[Yohann88260]

https://community.sigames.com/topic/503206-football-manager-2020-feedback-thread/page/85/?tab=comments#comment- 12183475

[witchplease]

1 hour ago, Trent71 said:

Imagine Sterling's last-second miss against Newcastle - passing it to the keeper like that, how many people would lose their cool should it happen in-game?

That happens like every game in fm...

[srvngrc]

You must be kidding right? 

[KUBI]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Dagenham_Dave:

That's what they want you to think. 

Could you please stop trolling in this thread.

[Dagenham_Dave]

14 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

"Top bantz" but the ME really hasn't changed. Please don't lead people on. The thread is bad enough as it is.

Sorry man, couldnae resist. 

[Cegidog]

2 hours ago, Iakovenko said:

It might not be unplayable but it's certainly not enjoyable, which for me is the same thing. 

I only watch key highlights and rely on match stats to let me know where I have problems and I find the stats this year are absolutely no help. The amount of games with 15 cc that have come from long balls over the top resulting in a missed one on one is absurd.

Maybe the scores and results reflect real life but the match stats definitely don't. 

 

15 CCC in a game ? Blimey. Just looked at my last 10 games and I'm averaging nearly 3 a game and the opposition 1.5. I'm scoring about 1 in 2 which seems ok.

Regular games with 15 CCC seems an awful lot, my highest is 6.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Cegidog

[KUBI]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Cegidog:

15 CCC in a game ? Blimey. Just looked at my last 10 games and I'm averaging nearly 3 a game and the opposition 1.5. I'm scoring about 1 in 2 which seems ok.

Regular games with 15 CCC seems an awful lot, my highest is 6.

And this makes it difficult to adjust, because it is not an issue that occurs in every game, it seems connected to tactical setups and which players are on the pitch. 

Some "suffering" from this a lot more than other, to find the reason why, is the first step for a fix.

[andu1]

Game seems faster and more responsive since the last update. 

[KUBI]

vor 1 Minute schrieb andu1:

Game seems faster and more responsive since the last update. 

There are some technical fixes, but there is also always some kind of placebo effect after an update. 

[fidelitywars]

3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We don't feel the match engine is broken, unplayable or needs 'fixing'. We'd like to improve it and that's what we're working on.

We released the Pre-Release Beta with a match engine, got feedback and made adjustments to improve certain areas, but as we've said elsewhere making changes has the potential for knock-ons. We still feel the balance and the output of the match engine (in terms of results, goals per game etc) are very close to real life. We've said there are some areas of the game we feel could improve further if we can and that's what we're working on currently. 

Part in bold worries me enormously and fuels theories that the success rates of actions are capped in order to allow the crude numbers to balance - 'we need to make the overall number of goals scored realistic so we'll just make finishing/decision making horrendous.' Speculation of course but the current problems with chance conversion/one on one finishing/penalty conversion etc will inevitably feed that argument. Appreciate that comments like this are probably why SI are reluctant to comment here too regularly; damned if you, damned if you don't. For what it's worth, I do appreciate the communication.

Speaking of metrics, could anyone at SI explain why the team stats pages during matches no longer show the number of shots or dribbles completed per player? Is this an oversight or have I spent hours missing something hidden in plain sight?!

[Johnny Ace]

10 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Some "suffering" from this a lot more than other, to find the reason why, is the first step for a fix.

Without having a scooby about what goes on under the hood, I could give you a couple of reasons  

[bleventozturk]

Just viewed some stats in the demo version and saw that in 15 game days (German 2nd division) there was a total of 1 (one!) goal from a free-kick between all the teams. Don't think this is realistic, but has anyone else paid attention to this?

Edited December 19, 2019 by bleventozturk

[bleventozturk]

I have a lot of respect for SI and it's coders for making this great game, but I can't say that I am happy to read Neil's take on the current state of the ME, because there is a huge difference between having an actually balanced ME, and achieving realistic scorelines by compensating for one huge weakness of the ME with another one. That's not 'good balancing'.

[Novem9]

12 минут назад, fidelitywars сказал:

Speaking of metrics, could anyone at SI explain why the team stats pages during matches no longer show the number of shots or dribbles completed per player? Is this an oversight or have I spent hours missing something hidden in plain sight?!

You asked for this? Actually with analysis no any requests, really fully reports 

[KUBI]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb bleventozturk:

I have a lot of respect for SI and it's coders for making this great game, but I can't say that I am happy to read Neil's take on the current state of the ME, because there is a huge difference between having an actually balanced ME, and achieving realistic scorelines by compensating for one huge weakness of the ME with another one. That's not 'good balancing'.

Balancing is a lot more than that. Different leagues, different tactics, CL football and 10 tier football, the knowledge that FM managers usually are a lot more attacking minded than real managers etc.

[szp]

24 minutes ago, Cegidog said:

15 CCC in a game ? Blimey. Just looked at my last 10 games and I'm averaging nearly 3 a game and the opposition 1.5. I'm scoring about 1 in 2 which seems ok.

Regular games with 15 CCC seems an awful lot, my highest is 6.

 

 

These analysis have nothing to do with reality. I gave here an example of my stats which were showing that the number of my converted CCCs was bigger than total goals scored by my team 

[fidelitywars]

5 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

You asked for this? Actually with analysis no any requests, really fully reports 

Ah so it's moved into the analysis menu? Used to be available under 'stats' as did shots/shots on target which also isn't available. Would be great to have passes/key passes/dribbles/shots/shots on target available from 1 view like it was previously.

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, fidelitywars said:

Ah so it's moved into the analysis menu? Used to be available under 'stats' as did shots/shots on target which also isn't available. Would be great to have passes/key passes/dribbles/shots/shots on target available from 1 view like it was previously.

It's all under player stats, the same as last year, I think. There's Defending, Attacking, General & the like