Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[andu1]

31 minutes ago, penza said:

amen! the only way is actually saving the whole FM into another folder (after each and every update) this way you can replace every file and you can even play the BETA that is what I did in previous fm's.

You know what, thats a great idea. I will do just that with the current ME if somehow I don't like the next ME update. I swear i did something like this for FM19 but i couldn't remember how i did it. Thank you!

[Neil Brock]

2 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

May I ask what's happened to the bugs forum? Around 14 thousand posts seem to have disappeared from it. I'm a little concerned some of my old bug reports may have been removed.

Same as with every year, we've hidden the 'Pre-Release Beta Bugs Forums' which were also contained within there. All the issues that were still active (so threads with any activity in the last few weeks) were moved into the appropriate section of the main bugs forum.

These issues are either no longer relevant having been fixed since or have already been looked at and logged as appropriate. Just makes the bugs forum tidier and less confusing for someone posting a thread. 

SI Staff can still view any of the old posts. If there's one specifically you think is important and hadn't been acted upon let me know, but as said any issue raised during that phase will have already been logged within our internal system. 

[davehanson]

 

https://youtu.be/ITpa6-_Q86c

 

Not sure how to embed videos, and not too sure what to say about this! If anyone wants to try explaining it please feel free to do so.

Edited December 17, 2019 by davehanson

[Tiger666]

34 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Same as with every year, we've hidden the 'Pre-Release Beta Bugs Forums' which were also contained within there. All the issues that were still active (so threads with any activity in the last few weeks) were moved into the appropriate section of the main bugs forum.

These issues are either no longer relevant having been fixed since or have already been looked at and logged as appropriate. Just makes the bugs forum tidier and less confusing for someone posting a thread. 

SI Staff can still view any of the old posts. If there's one specifically you think is important and hadn't been acted upon let me know, but as said any issue raised during that phase will have already been logged within our internal system. 

Thanks for the clarification Neil.

[Sharkn20]

37 minutes ago, davehanson said:

 

https://youtu.be/ITpa6-_Q86c

 

Not sure how to embed videos, and not too sure what to say about this! If anyone wants to try explaining it please feel free to do so.

Hahahaha

This is awesome, no doubt FM20 is the funnier version ever.

I wonder if the developers are the same than the WWE2K20 fiasco.

[Sharkn20]

I hope someone reported properly the lack of one last pass in the final 3rd when attackers are in 2vs1 or 3vs1 or 4vs1 situations alone against the keeper. Ludicrous.

[herne79]

4 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

I hope someone reported properly the lack of one last pass in the final 3rd when attackers are in 2vs1 or 3vs1 or 4vs1 situations alone against the keeper. Ludicrous.

Rather than hoping someone else has, why don't you?  You clearly have lots of examples, so start a new thread in the ME Bugs forum and attach all of those pkms showing the problem.  Better 2 people report it than nobody.

[Sharkn20]

23 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Rather than hoping someone else has, why don't you?  You clearly have lots of examples, so start a new thread in the ME Bugs forum and attach all of those pkms showing the problem.  Better 2 people report it than nobody.

Will find the time this week to do it.

[Tiger666]

1 hour ago, davehanson said:

https://youtu.be/ITpa6-_Q86c

Not sure how to embed videos, and not too sure what to say about this! If anyone wants to try explaining it please feel free to do so.

 

That's awful. In fact that's another example of an issue I've been banging on about here:
 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Tiger666

[Novem9]

10 минут назад, Tiger666 сказал:

That's awful.

This is good for my PC I didnt meet the same issue or it could be something like

[Johnny Ace]

My players at level 9 do that but I thought it was because they're sub-par (to put it kindly )

I think people are blinded by the 1-on-1's & it's the only thing they notice 

 

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, Johnny Ace сказал:

My players at level 9 do that but I thought it was because they

...dont want to play at level 9  

[regainer]

So tired. So many things that is wrong with FM 20. Where do I even start?
 

• The pressing system does not work. I have bought in players that have extremely high attributes of team work, determination etc but every team I face seem to have 20 in passning and composure.
• THE LONG BALLS over the defenders, what the **** is this. It's not normal.
• All the wierd decision making of the players. I have Nathan Ake in my team, he makes horrible passing mistakes in every match he plays. Notice that he has high passing, composure etc.
• Goals conceding in corners and free kicks, are my players playing in the youth league?
• The 1on1s and all the missed 1on1s. My forwards miss almost every 1on1s (get maybe 10-12 per game but never seem to score).

The last time I enjoyed FM was FM 14 or 15. I can't even remember since it's been that long. I always think, this year, SI might fix the game but it never happens. It's like they changed all their developers or something. So disappointed. I know I'm not the only one (please do not remove this post)

[Chus]

7 minutes ago, regainer said:

So tired. So many things that is wrong with FM 20. Where do I even start?
 

• The pressing system does not work. I have bought in players that have extremely high attributes of team work, determination etc but every team I face seem to have 20 in passning and composure.
• THE LONG BALLS over the defenders, what the **** is this. It's not normal.
• All the wierd decision making of the players. I have Nathan Ake in my team, he makes horrible passing mistakes in every match he plays. Notice that he has high passing, composure etc.
• Goals conceding in corners and free kicks, are my players playing in the youth league?
• The 1on1s and all the missed 1on1s. My forwards miss almost every 1on1s (get maybe 10-12 per game but never seem to score).

The last time I enjoyed FM was FM 14 or 15. I can't even remember since it's been that long. I always think, this year, SI might fix the game but it never happens. It's like they changed all their developers or something. So disappointed. I know I'm not the only one (please do not remove this post)

Dont Worry, it wont be removed. 

Alternatively a Rude Moderator will ask you to do their job and post pkm's.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, Chus said:

Dont Worry, it wont be removed. 

Alternatively a Rude Moderator will ask you to do their job and post pkm's.

It has nothing to do with being rude. The thread is for feedback. If we encounter someone observing issues in the ME, we'll direct them to report those issues in the bugs forum, with PKMs. That's the 'job'. 

[emil_sbn]

Can someone from SI give a little update on whats being looked at in a upcoming ME update and also a ETA for it, sure I get it that you cant say an exact date but is it days,weeks months were talking?

[Domathon]

24 minutes ago, regainer said:

So tired. So many things that is wrong with FM 20. Where do I even start?
 

• The pressing system does not work. I have bought in players that have extremely high attributes of team work, determination etc but every team I face seem to have 20 in passning and composure.
• THE LONG BALLS over the defenders, what the **** is this. It's not normal.
• All the wierd decision making of the players. I have Nathan Ake in my team, he makes horrible passing mistakes in every match he plays. Notice that he has high passing, composure etc.
• Goals conceding in corners and free kicks, are my players playing in the youth league?
• The 1on1s and all the missed 1on1s. My forwards miss almost every 1on1s (get maybe 10-12 per game but never seem to score).

The last time I enjoyed FM was FM 14 or 15. I can't even remember since it's been that long. I always think, this year, SI might fix the game but it never happens. It's like they changed all their developers or something. So disappointed. I know I'm not the only one (please do not remove this post)

i share your concerns but add to that too many early goals and too many penalty kicks. i have to say im only 2 seasons into my long-term save but i have stopped.

[regainer]

4 minutes ago, Domathon said:

i share your concerns but add to that too many early goals and too many penalty kicks. i have to say im only 2 seasons into my long-term save but i have stopped.

I know the feeling. Sorry that you also experiencing this

[bahrami]

On 16/12/2019 at 15:35, Dagenham_Dave said:

It's not broken though, is it? Do some issues need sorting? Yes. Is the game unplayable? No. 

Nearly 46,000 people playing it (during the day on a Monday) - You wouldn't get that many people continually using a broken product. It's that simple. Now, I'm not naive enough to think all 46,000 are thoroughly enjoying it (although why would you play something you don't like), but it's a good number nonetheless. I await the inevitable glut of killjoys giving reasons why this figure means nothing quoting all manner of non-sequitors, as per. 

You're entitled to that opinion. You're wrong, of course, but you're still entitled to it. But if you feel that way, you really should be doing something else with your spare time. 

Is that the level we're stooping to as consumers?  As long as we can load the game up, it's acceptable to have a ME that creates an abnormal amount of one on one opportunities (most that don't even go in lol)  and issues like the Watford print screen I posted above.

The enjoyment factor is dead for me when the match engine is like this, it's funny because I've never had a ME issue apart from when 3D was introduced back in FM 09 I think.

The last paragraph, I won't even bother. All I'll say is that I speak for many people who are having match engine issues, maybe the casual won't understand, I already know of several people who have just stopped playing the game because of the issues, but for someone who's been playing the game since Championship Manager days, I am entitled to tell SI where the issues are and need addressing, because I love the game, historically.

The fact that nobody from Si is saying that these are issues that are being looked into is wrong IMO, but I guess that's the society we live in these days, constructive feedback isn't what people want to see because it's damaging for business, happy clappers like yourself is what they want.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, bahrami said:

The fact that nobody from Si is saying that these are issues that are being looked into is wrong IMO,

They respond to threads in the bugs forum. You can see what is under review.  

[Neil Brock]

To clarify, any issue raised on our bug forums, whether large or small is investigated by our team. We won't always have time to respond and given the nature of software development we can't always set exact time-frames of updates. Likewise whilst we may be making progress on certain issues, there's always the chance of problems being found so have to be careful with regards to releasing information on things considered 'work in progress'. 

Specifically focusing on the match engine - it is extremely complex as we've said a number of times before and even the most seemingly minor fix has the potential of completely changing the dynamic of the engine. As we work on it each change requires significant testing so there's never a quick or easy improvement. We always feel as though the match engine can be improved and have never claimed it's perfect - but we do feel it's the closest representation to real life football available in a game or simulation and will always continue to make it even better.

We're very much aware of some of the issues raised within the community and they are of course being considered and investigated alongside everything else. 

[Domathon]

you need to realise theres a large number of casuals who jump in with a top team download a tactic and think everythings fine.

[bahrami]

11 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

To clarify, any issue raised on our bug forums, whether large or small is investigated by our team. We won't always have time to respond and given the nature of software development we can't always set exact time-frames of updates. Likewise whilst we may be making progress on certain issues, there's always the chance of problems being found so have to be careful with regards to releasing information on things considered 'work in progress'. 

Specifically focusing on the match engine - it is extremely complex as we've said a number of times before and even the most seemingly minor fix has the potential of completely changing the dynamic of the engine. As we work on it each change requires significant testing so there's never a quick or easy improvement. We always feel as though the match engine can be improved and have never claimed it's perfect - but we do feel it's the closest representation to real life football available in a game or simulation and will always continue to make it even better.

We're very much aware of some of the issues raised within the community and they are of course being considered and investigated alongside everything else. 

Appreciate the reply and good to know it's being looked at.

[Mantis Toboggan]

11 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

To clarify, any issue raised on our bug forums, whether large or small is investigated by our team. We won't always have time to respond and given the nature of software development we can't always set exact time-frames of updates. Likewise whilst we may be making progress on certain issues, there's always the chance of problems being found so have to be careful with regards to releasing information on things considered 'work in progress'. 

Specifically focusing on the match engine - it is extremely complex as we've said a number of times before and even the most seemingly minor fix has the potential of completely changing the dynamic of the engine. As we work on it each change requires significant testing so there's never a quick or easy improvement. We always feel as though the match engine can be improved and have never claimed it's perfect - but we do feel it's the closest representation to real life football available in a game or simulation and will always continue to make it even better.

We're very much aware of some of the issues raised within the community and they are of course being considered and investigated alongside everything else. 

Shouldn't that have been done before the game was released? 

[Sunstrikuuu]

29 minutes ago, bahrami said:

The fact that nobody from Si is saying that these are issues that are being looked into is wrong IMO, but I guess that's the society we live in these days, constructive feedback isn't what people want to see because it's damaging for business, happy clappers like yourself is what they want.

Literally one of the top, like, three threads in the Match Engine bugs forum says they're looking into it.  

God knows I complain about stuff.  There are problems, the game isn't perfect, and I really question why some issues persist year-on-year.  Yet I can see real progress, and I appreciate the heck out of the people who, positive or negative, are posting detailed bug reports with timestamps, PKMs and saves.  But there's the thing.  Uploading a PKM is incredibly easy.  It's a lot more work to take a screenshot or upload a video.  Maybe it doesn't satisfy an urge for public outrage, but it will actually help.

[Sunstrikuuu]

Just now, Mantis Toboggan said:

Shouldn't that have been done before the game was released? 

It was, and some of the issues weren't present in the beta.  They came up at the end of beta and early in release with those patches, which addressed issues identified in the beta.

[iAlwaysWin]

Went back to FM19 and absolutely loving FM again, what a beautiful match engine compared to FM20. Anyone who's doubting going back to a previous FM like I was, just do it you wont regret it.

[Neil Brock]

10 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan said:

Shouldn't that have been done before the game was released? 

As we've said, even the slightest change can have knock-ons elsewhere, so as we continue to make improvements there is always a chance a certain area of the engine changes. The statistics of the match engine are in-line with real life but as we've said, we're always working to improve the balance of play and to try and get it as close to real life as possible. 

[GOODNAME]

I have no doubt in my mind there will be a fix  to this engine I just hope the fix will be out before  the 20.3 patch in March 

[akinozcan]

6 dakika önce, Neil Brock said:

As we've said, even the slightest change can have knock-ons elsewhere, so as we continue to make improvements there is always a chance a certain area of the engine changes. The statistics of the match engine are in-line with real life but as we've said, we're always working to improve the balance of play and to try and get it as close to real life as possible. 

And no possibility a hotfix until Christmas? 

[emil_sbn]

7 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Went back to FM19 and absolutely loving FM again, what a beautiful match engine compared to FM20. Anyone who's doubting going back to a previous FM like I was, just do it you wont regret it.

Have to disagree on this one, cant go back to fm19 again not when players just always waiting for the opponent to get their crosses blocked. And especially not now that club vision is in this years game. 

[emil_sbn]

3 minutes ago, akinozcan said:

And no possibility a hotfix until Christmas? 

 

[CFuller]

21 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Went back to FM19 and absolutely loving FM again, what a beautiful match engine compared to FM20. Anyone who's doubting going back to a previous FM like I was, just do it you wont regret it.

It's interesting you say that, considering that this was your feedback on FM19:

On 12/11/2018 at 16:24, iAlwaysWin said:

After 4 seasons of play with good success, premier league titles, champions leage glory its time to give this game up, the balance of play its just all over the place, its just not enjoyable, fm18 was a far more enjoyable experience, and if si continues down this route regarding the match engine i fear for the games future, fm18 may be known in the future as the last great fm.

 

On 12/11/2018 at 16:49, iAlwaysWin said:

lets hope so but the match engine is in a pretty bad place at the moment, i love the fm series, always have done.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

This is what happens every year on here. The previous year's game was always better. Until you actually visit the feedback of the previous year's game, which is full of people complaining about it and saying the PREVIOUS year's game was better ad infinitum. 

It's why SI don't take what's posted in this thread remotely seriously. It's all about the bug reports, man. 

[Iwabik]

5 minutes ago, CFuller said:

It's interesting you say that, considering that this was your feedback on FM19:

 

 

Not the OP, but you are aware that those quoted posts are from november? There were many updates to ME since then and the final version is much better?

[iAlwaysWin]

35 minutes ago, CFuller said:

It's interesting you say that, considering that this was your feedback on FM19:

 

 

those posts where in the infant stage of the FM19 ME and you know what? I still didn't go back to FM18 because I seen the potential, with FM20 ME I see no potential at this stage considering how much they have tinkered with it, and currently am on ME 19.3.6 which is a joy to watch but hey carry on playing your FM20 with rose tinted glasses wont change my mind that FM19 ME is far better on the eye.

[Diogo28]

After some time being a casual reader here i've decided to register to give my 2 cents about the current ME.

 

The image represents every game i'm a favourite., this one ended 1-1.

A lot of big chances, 1 on 1 with the keeper, easy tap ins missed etc etc. My goal in this game was a rebound after a penalty (there's just too many).

This happened against me this time, but i also managed a draw against City in a game i was totally trashed but they missed more than 7/8 easy goals. It's not fun playing this game once you see its flaws.

 

 

I understand the development work is not easy, and if you increase the scoring % you need to balance the number of chances created, but this game is released every year with only light changes, the core (being the ME) should be consolidated many years ago.

I'm putting my save on stand-by until a new patch that makes it fun, and deliberating wether i'm gonna keep buying this game or not.

 

SC Braga v FC Porto.pkm

Edited December 17, 2019 by Diogo28

[Mitja]

4 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

those posts where in the infant stage of the FM19 ME and you know what? I still didn't go back to FM18 because I seen the potential, with FM20 ME I see no potential at this stage considering how much they have tinkered with it, and currently am on ME 19.3.6 which is a joy to watch but hey carry on playing your FM20 with rose tinted glasses wont change my mind that FM19 ME is far better on the eye.

FM19 me got that good? Not too many crosses, blocked crosses, defensive teams dominating possession etc? I quit playing it for christmas and didnt touch it after, lost patience.

[haffaz77]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb CFuller:

It's interesting you say that, considering that this was your feedback on FM19:

 

 

Another Proof that people are just here to bitch about the Game.  I enjoy it very much atm . A lot of things are connected to tactics . People Managing Lower League Teams and downloading Tactics created with a Top League Team . Then they are wondering why its not working lol.  I have to agree with @Neil Brock that it's the "closest representation to real life football available in a game or simulation" . Yes ... there are a few issues with it .. But what the Hell ? It's gonna be fixed. Til then ... chill out and play the Game.

 

Funny btw . 

Edited December 17, 2019 by haffaz77

[regainer]

8 minutes ago, Diogo28 said:

After some time being a casual reader here i've decided to register to give my 2 cents about the current ME.

 

The image represents every game i'm a favourite., this one ended 1-1.

A lot of big chances, 1 on 1 with the keeper, easy tap ins missed etc etc. My goal in this game was a rebound after a penalty (there's just too many).

This happened against me this time, but i also managed a draw against City in a game i was totally trashed but they missed more than 7/8 easy goals. It's not fun playing this game once you see its flaws.

 

 

I understand the development work is not easy, and if you increase the scoring % you need to balance the number of chances created, but this game is released every year with only light changes, the core (being the ME) should be consolidated many years ago.

I'm putting my save on stand-by until a new patch that makes it fun, and deliberating wether i'm gonna keep buying this game or not.

 

SC Braga v FC Porto.pkm 176.79 kB · 0 downloads

Know the feeling. Classic FM. I totally understand that you putting this on stand by

[pats]

1 hour ago, akinozcan said:

And no possibility a hotfix until Christmas? 

A hotfix is for a game breaking bug. There is no game breaking bug in the ME at the moment, hence no 'hotfix'. There may be a 'patch' but only SI knows.

[Mitja]

14 minutes ago, Diogo28 said:

I understand the development work is not easy, and if you increase the scoring % you need to balance the number of chances created, but this game is released every year with only light changes, the core (being the ME) should be consolidated many years ago.

SC Braga v FC Porto.pkm 176.79 kB · 0 downloads

I agree. The new me should be in beta until its polished even if it takes years (and for example improve animations in those years. SI would make themselves favour and keep everybody happy. I mean who buys fm because of new me?

Edited December 17, 2019 by Mitja

[Diogo28]

8 minutes ago, Diogo28 said:

After some time being a casual reader here i've decided to register to give my 2 cents about the current ME.

 

The image represents every game i'm a favourite., this one ended 1-1.

A lot of big chances, 1 on 1 with the keeper, easy tap ins missed etc etc. My goal in this game was a rebound after a penalty (there's just too many).

This happened against me this time, but i also managed a draw against City in a game i was totally trashed but they missed more than 7/8 easy goals. It's not fun playing this game once you see its flaws.

 

 

I understand the development work is not easy, and if you increase the scoring % you need to balance the number of chances created, but this game is released every year with only light changes, the core (being the ME) should be consolidated many years ago.

I'm putting my save on stand-by until a new patch that makes it fun, and deliberating wether i'm gonna keep buying this game or not.

 

SC Braga v FC Porto.pkm 176.79 kB · 0 downloads

The example i've told before. I'm playing with Porto and many of my key players were injured/suspended.

I got a red card early in the game and CIty created many chances, but they kept on missing one after the other. This is clearly a sign that the ME is programmed to make the results balanced by unbalancing the game as it keeps happening. I managed to score 2 goals from penalties, both after long balls from the CB (Pepe is not the greatest passer in the game) where the defenders acted like fools.

I'm not a master tactician or a FM genius, but i can see the flaws in the game. You can still thrive with great results sure, just exploit the flaws and have fun with it.

All in all, i still believe this is fixable and hope to have some fun playing this game.

[davehanson]

19 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Another Proof that people are just here to bitch about the Game.  I enjoy it very much atm . A lot of things are connected to tactics . People Managing Lower League Teams and downloading Tactics created with a Top League Team . Then they are wondering why its not working lol.  I have to agree with @Neil Brock that it's the "closest representation to real life football available in a game or simulation" . Yes ... there are a few issues with it .. But what the Hell ? It's gonna be fixed. Til then ... chill out and play the Game.

 

Funny btw . 

Yeah that's right. Everyone is definitely here to bitch about the game. The same old line gets trotted out again and again, 'it's your tactics'. Have you not bothered to read anything that has gone before it? Many people, including me are having success. However, that success is marred with a poor ME that doesn't accurately reflect what the user wants to happen.

I can win, but it isnt how I want to win. I want to win games with variety, not seeing long ball over the top all the time. Not missed 1v1 all the time.

But, you are happy and everyone else is bitching so we can just leave it at that. 

[haffaz77]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb davehanson:

Yeah that's right. Everyone is definitely here to bitch about the game. The same old line gets trotted out again and again, 'it's your tactics'. Have you not bothered to read anything that has gone before it? Many people, including me are having success. However, that success is marred with a poor ME that doesn't accurately reflect what the user wants to happen.

I can win, but it isnt how I want to win. I want to win games with variety, not seeing long ball over the top all the time. Not missed 1v1 all the time.

But, you are happy and everyone else is bitching so we can just leave it at that. 

Maybe not everyone . But scroll up , and u will see an example of someone who says he goes back to FM 19 cuz of the ME but posted about FM 19 the same thing . 

Regarding to 1v1s ...

 

[iAlwaysWin]

3 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Maybe not everyone . But scroll up , and u will see an example of someone who says he goes back to FM 19 cuz of the ME but posted about FM 19 the same thing . 

Regarding to 1v1s ...

 

Do you read what you only want to read? ive already stated that those comments where in early NOVEMBER! there was many updates to the match engine since then, but what I know for sure is by late December I was really happy with FM19 and that wasn't  even the final build of the game, same cant be said about FM20!

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by iAlwaysWin

[yandex]

5 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Maybe not everyone . But scroll up , and u will see an example of someone who says he goes back to FM 19 cuz of the ME but posted about FM 19 the same thing . 

Regarding to 1v1s ...

 

Strong one example mate. Nobody is saying they are never scored. The problem is they're created too often and misses are way, way too abundant relative to goals.

 

Also, defenders are not trailing the ONLY player making a run here? If you were trying to make things look good here, you failed.

Edited December 17, 2019 by yandex

[haffaz77]

vor 1 Minute schrieb iAlwaysWin:

Do you read what you only want to read? ive already stated that those comments where in early NOVEMBER! there was many updates to the match engine since then, but what I know for sure is by late December I was really happy with FM19 and that wasn't  even the final build of the game, same cant be said about FM20!

 

 

 

The FM 20 ME is way better than 19 Version. Never really enjoyed it and uninstalled 2 Weeks after Final Patch . If you're Happy with it, good for you . 

[iAlwaysWin]

Just now, haffaz77 said:

The FM 20 ME is way better than 19 Version. Never really enjoyed it and uninstalled 2 Weeks after Final Patch . If you're Happy with it, good for you . 

The current FM20 ME is not better than the final build of the FM19 ME, your in denial mate.

[Mikke]

1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

The current FM20 ME is not better than the final build of the FM19 ME, your in denial mate.

Yes it actually is.
I also thought that it wasn't, and tried to go back to FM19, only to come once again back to FM20 since I couldn't stand FM19 ME anymore. You're in denial mate.