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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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18 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

If I never see a player stop moving, square up to a stationary defender who's six inches away and blast a cross into his kneecaps again, it will be too soon.  This has been happening for at least five years, it never happens in real football, and it's completely awful to watch.  Give me back fullbacks smashing the ball over the penalty area to each other over this.  I am so, so sick of it.

Did you try to report it? 

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1 hour ago, Mitja said:

Did you try to report it? 

Ha.  Not yet - it's been reported hundreds of times before, and was the subject of a patch towards the end of beta aimed at addressing players dwelling on the ball.  I need to figure out why my tactic has gone from very few crosses and a good amount of central play to no central play at all and 60 crosses per match without any changes to mentality, roles or personnel first. 

(The other thing is that I'm finding it's very difficult to actually find these things after the fact.  Blocked crosses don't show up as intercepted crosses or passes.  They don't even necessarily show up as possession regained by the other team.  As far as I can tell, within the Analysis tab they're invisible.  That means you've got to either watch the full match and tabulate them by hand, or go back and watch it after on max speed.  Either way, it changes FM from a fun game to work.)

So far in my save, chance conversion rates by team range from Everton at 20% to Leicester at 0% (it's only four matchdays in, admittedly, and you can't access these stats for prior season as far as I'm aware).  Chance conversion rate has remained pretty steady from 2011/12 to 2018/19 in the Premier League.  The lowest mark for all teams combined is 13.8% and the high mark is 16.5%.  The average team chance conversion rate over that period is 15.1875%.  That would be the third-best in my save.  Only three teams converted shots into goals at a less than 10% rate in the 8 seasons I'm looking at - Liverpool's 9.7% in 2011/12, QPR's 9.4% in 2012/13 and Huddersfield Town's 7.8% in 2018/19.  In my save, fourteen teams are below 10%. 

For a little bit of extra data, I grabbed a save from the Tycoon thread that's at the end of the first season.  In that save, Crystal Palace lead in chance conversion rate at 13%, or nearly a full percentage point lower than the lowest leaguewide average in the last eight years.  Nine teams finished below 10%. 

Edited by Sunstrikuuu

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Just watching Jamie from FM scout and noticed alot of side shooting but it's central (corner of the 6 yeard box) and happens 6-7/10 times a game. Plays 442 with 2 adv forwards, crossing and wing play, not seen many cutbacks. Anyone else seen a similar thing? If it's been ackowledged then I'll delete my post. 

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10 minutes ago, BigV said:

Just watching Jamie from FM scout and noticed alot of side shooting but it's central (corner of the 6 yeard box) and happens 6-7/10 times a game. Plays 442 with 2 adv forwards, crossing and wing play, not seen many cutbacks. Anyone else seen a similar thing? If it's been ackowledged then I'll delete my post. 

It was addressed towards the end of the beta, but maybe didn't go quite far enough.  I think it's still considered a WIP.

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Been reading the last few pages to see if the match engine has been fixed since i stopped playing after just a couple days after the "beta" was released. Sadly, it seems to be just as awful as it was when i last played, major disappointment. 

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1 minute ago, Bradley21 said:

Been reading the last few pages to see if the match engine has been fixed since i stopped playing after just a couple days after the "beta" was released. Sadly, it seems to be just as awful as it was when i last played, major disappointment. 

It's not awful.  It's just frustrating.  It's still, IMO, a better game than 19.

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Is there any way to stop wingers (the position, not the role) on attack drifting really wide when defending? Really destroying my defensive shape and doesn't seem very realistic either 

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4 minutes ago, fournaan said:

Is there any way to stop wingers (the position, not the role) on attack drifting really wide when defending? Really destroying my defensive shape and doesn't seem very realistic either 

With an attack duty, the players you put in that position will generally try to stay high and wide to be available to start counterattacks.  Try putting them on Support and using player instructions to get them more advanced in attack.  Or give them a man-marking job.

Edited by Sunstrikuuu

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5 minutes ago, fournaan said:

Is there any way to stop wingers (the position, not the role) on attack drifting really wide when defending? Really destroying my defensive shape and doesn't seem very realistic either 

Following onto what sunstrikuuu said, use the PI "run forward" then hes working like a winger on attack sometimes. Best of both worlds. 

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How many teams or players defend that way? I think Messi, who else? But Id say he is trequrtista in fm terms. Also TQ description suits such behaviour. On a side note anyone seen AI playing wide TQ?

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Is anyone struggling with injuries? I haven’t been at all, but I’m in my fourth season and they’re starting to pile up. The only change is my pre-season was set to “Tactical” instead of “Heavy” this year. Other than that, nothing else. 

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2 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

It's not awful.  It's just frustrating.  It's still, IMO, a better game than 19.

I enjoyed 19 a LOT more than 20 so far :( I still have faith in SI to get it sorted. They get a lot of unnecessary grief.

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Why can't forwards/inside forwards and wingers ever round a goalkeeper? It's so annoying. If their running straight on with the keeper they usually hit it of them or it goes wide, if their coming in from an angle it mostly goes wide to the corner flag, and my old friend the inside forward/wingers hitting the side net and never squaring/pulling back the ball. It's ruining what is otherwise a great game.

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11 minutes ago, Davey Boy said:

Why can't forwards/inside forwards and wingers ever round a goalkeeper? It's so annoying. If their running straight on with the keeper they usually hit it of them or it goes wide, if their coming in from an angle it mostly goes wide to the corner flag, and my old friend the inside forward/wingers hitting the side net and never squaring/pulling back the ball. It's ruining what is otherwise a great game.

I had a forward who did that on occasion so it doesn't 'never happen'. Just saying. The animation might be a bit weird as he doesn't go all the way around the goalie but he does sidestep him so he has a far easier angle to score (which he then always does). 

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2 hours ago, Davey Boy said:

Why can't forwards/inside forwards and wingers ever round a goalkeeper? It's so annoying. If their running straight on with the keeper they usually hit it of them or it goes wide, if their coming in from an angle it mostly goes wide to the corner flag, and my old friend the inside forward/wingers hitting the side net and never squaring/pulling back the ball. It's ruining what is otherwise a great game.

I just had 2 goals where the striker dribbles around the goalkeeper, first time i saw it.

Hope the colour of the crowd will change at the next update, tired of seeing 50% wearing brown or orange jackets

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image.thumb.png.55f4d5b50c5bf7bde823a089d5327af3.pngimage.thumb.png.81c4bc6779b894810f52add1c09c81f4.png

 

The one on ones are ruining the game. There is a clear issue with balls in behind not being dealt with by defenders, I have set up my tactic, a modification of TFF Zeus tactic, in order to primarily get Nketiah in behind. He has decent enough stats but in my last 2 games is 2 in 13 when one on one with the keeper, hitting pretty much all of them straight at the him. 

 

Hitting open shots straight at the keeper coupled with the refusal to square the ball to open team mates are the 2 single biggest issues with the ME imo.

Edited by thecrackfoxx

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Started a LLM save and have noticed there is a big leap in the variety/quality of efforts in 1v1 situations, keepers are better too so the conversion rate is similar.

There's 2 huge problems that need fixed on this current patch

set pieces - mainly corners. The defending team is literally incapable of getting a clearing header, I spent a crazy amount of time working on it in training and now my teams wins the first header 8/10 times, but it just goes up in the air and never clears the 18 yard box, while no matter how many players i designate to the edge of the box ( can be 3v1 in my favour) it will always be the opposing player on the move who gets there. Is it the case that there's no such thing as a loose ball in the ME so it's always "tethered" to a certain player, in this case always the opposition which leaves my players useless.

As a side note on this, it's often the case that once my player doesn't clear the ball and just flicks it on to the far away sideline, my team will then spring into action and adopt a formation in the box that can only be described as "a Brazilian" all in a big narrow line, leaving the corner taker free to wander in completely unannounced at the back post for an easy chance. Curiously the only time a big booming defender is possible is when the attacking team has a header in the box, so it's actually better odds in my favour if they get a free run and header at goal from the original ball in.

 

The second problem is more minor, but absolutely does my t*ts in. It's the same for me and the opposition, but the animation where someone will come out of position to hunt down the ball near the sideline, they win it, but then just step aside and allow an easy turnover and usually  free run towards the box due to where the situation happens.

But please, I have big aggressive players at a crap level where all they can do it hump the ball miles away, but they are incapable of clearing the ball. I regularly concede 20/25 shots a game, but 15/20 come from 6/7 corners where it's impossible to clear it and it just turns into one giant game of pinball as we block shots but no one can react to a clear ball.

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1 hour ago, steviemay17 said:

I regularly concede 20/25 shots a game, but 15/20 come from 6/7 corners where it's impossible to clear it and it just turns into one giant game of pinball as we block shots but no one can react to a clear ball.

This happens in particular if you opt to sit deep to begin with to a good degree -- similar to how the game's defensive AI tactics do it. A lot of those shots you concede also go on target -- but partly, as they're headers under pressure (and oft from a good few yards out), the keeper picks them up more often than not. As such, conceding a lot of shots is not that big of a deal. Then again, in a low block it shouldn't be to an extent, mind. Ask Sean Dyche.

As argued, everybody is going on about the 1vs1s. The actually long-term "thing" is how "easy" it is to get SOT from the set piece, which being headers under pressure and similar aren't that often converted into goals. Prior, whenever I saw a match with lots of SOT and Little goals, I knew exactly what to look out for in my manual shot analysis…. and it rarely disappointed, ever. Even currently, a good deal of finishes centrally in the box from golden areas within the box are the perennial header from the set piece. In particular for anybody struggling to score off umpteenth shots.

In actual Football, but a fraction of set pieces end with a shot (on average for instance, roughly every ~5th Corner). Then there is also the indirect free kicks lumped into the box leading to the same, and the attacking throw ins similar. I think if SI would compare the percentages of shots coming from set pieces in the ME, and compare that to actual football, they may find interesting things in general.

Edited by Svenc

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6 hours ago, Davey Boy said:

Why can't forwards/inside forwards and wingers ever round a goalkeeper? It's so annoying. If their running straight on with the keeper they usually hit it of them or it goes wide, if their coming in from an angle it mostly goes wide to the corner flag, and my old friend the inside forward/wingers hitting the side net and never squaring/pulling back the ball. It's ruining what is otherwise a great game.

I had 1 forward try that twice just in the session I played last night which stretched about 3 or 4 matches. Frustrating thing was, in one of the incidents, he sidestepped the keeper, which made the angle more difficult. As the keeper regained footing and tried to get back, the striker had to shoot and hit the far side post.  :(

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Am noticing that there isn't much movement in the final 3rd. Whoever gets in the area shoots. Even with work the ball in the area TI marked...

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Git Ready to git "FM'd". (And if not, report it as a bug ASAP). :P 

FM20-ZEUS-V2-by-TFF.png

FM20-Wolverine-V1-by-TFF.png

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47 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Git Ready to git "FM'd". (And if not, report it as a bug ASAP). :P 

FM20-ZEUS-V2-by-TFF.png

FM20-Wolverine-V1-by-TFF.png

Emm what? :D

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On the upside, I saw the first ever bicycle kick goal I've seen in a match, and thankfully it came from my own Paco Alcácer!

fbb6f0f0565462275029a05b613fae71.gif

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Horror ME! No arguments needed.

I should say version. Every time I find the mental strength to try and play this game, I find some bugs. Bugs that have been reported since beta(a few since FM2017) and here we are with version 20.2.1.

Edited by Vali184

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1 час назад, Mitja сказал:

Emm what? :D

Usually I think that I don't understand him because my English is limited. But every time see questions from other members :lol:

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Looks like a reference to my post as I said I had used Zeus tactic as a base for my own tactic when showing my continued dreadful conversion of CCC's. Snide remarks and inane babble to shoot down everyone else's concerns/opinions seems to be his sole reason for posting.

Creating so many chances, which is in itself is a glaring issue with the ME, but failing to finish them repeatedly is not 'getting fm'd' It is a flawed ME. 

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He's right though - weird tactics lead to weird results.  Garbage in, garbage out.  Play a tactic with no cover that funnels everything into an extremely narrow area and you will lose some games 1-0 after 40 shots.  That's a thing that happens in football and in FM alike.  I'm an Arsenal fan - God knows I've seen my share of those.  And no one disputes that FM's definition of CCCs is of limited use.  Likewise, also no one disputes that chance conversion rates are too low, and that there are too many shots.  The devs acknowledge it, the players do too.  So it's probably not worth getting mad about, for now.  Both things work in tandem right now .

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It's crazy how bad I am at FM this year. I have some 30 attempts trying to win away agains Wolves with Man U. First attempt I was down a goal a couple of seconds after kick-off, second attempt it took them just over 2 minutes. My players hardly get a shot away. Haven't scored a goal in all those attempts. Not even when they get a red card after 24 minutes. It's hillarious! :D

fthisgame.png

Edited by Viking

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6 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

He's right though - weird tactics lead to weird results.  Garbage in, garbage out.  Play a tactic with no cover that funnels everything into an extremely narrow area and you will lose some games 1-0 after 40 shots.  That's a thing that happens in football and in FM alike.  I'm an Arsenal fan - God knows I've seen my share of those.  And no one disputes that FM's definition of CCCs is of limited use.  Likewise, also no one disputes that chance conversion rates are too low, and that there are too many shots.  The devs acknowledge it, the players do too.  So it's probably not worth getting mad about, for now.  Both things work in tandem right now .

I am mad about it, it is embarrassing that it takes weeks for them to get the match engine fixed. The game has not been worth the time until now, first it was unplayable due to lag and now this match engine issue..

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4 hours ago, Mitja said:

Emm what? :D

I just like how the provider keeps on doing tactics like that every release and argues that every time the **** hits the fan it must be just "one of those FM Things", is all. :D This Kind of things suffers on both Ends if the AI lines up a specific way. Firstly, the pitch is just so incredibly compressed, leading to the added set pieces and hurried shots in crowded spaces in general, which all depends on how the AI lines up. There's neither width, nor depth, nor anything. If you'd go into the 2d view or any overview cam and draw a circle around the players advancing, it'd be pint sized. That's all the area the defending Team has to cover. However, the game allows that naturally. As a "realistic" Simulation, that could be argued to be a failure in design... Generally agree that the stuff that isn't that oft converted should be harder to come by too / conversions be checked.

Any crazy tactics in general tend to exaggerate ME issues to the hilt, which means they are probably still considered useful by SI.

20 minutes ago, Viking said:

It's crazy how bad I am at FM this year. I have some 30 attempts trying to win away agains Wolves with Man U. First attempt I was down a goal a couple of seconds after kick-off, second attempt it took them just over 2 minutes. My players hardly get a shot away. Haven't scored a goal in all those attempts. Not even when they get a red card after 24 minutes. It's hillarious! :D

fthisgame.png

What are you doing, actually? :D I remember you Posting how the game were impossible for a couple Releases. Have you ever enquired for help? :) 

Edited by Svenc

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14 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

I am mad about it, it is embarrassing that it takes weeks for them to get the match engine fixed. The game has not been worth the time until now, first it was unplayable due to lag and now this match engine issue..

I think you're overreacting.  I can't say I experienced the lag, which may have been a legitimate problem.  The match engine isn't where I'd like it to be, but it's hardly the worst they've had, and if it's not working for you you're in luck - we live in a golden age of leisure.  There are more great games and more great TV shows and movies and things to do than there have ever been before.  Find one of those and go do it and come back when you're ready.

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36 minutes ago, thecrackfoxx said:

Creating so many chances, which is in itself is a glaring issue with the ME, but failing to finish them repeatedly is not 'getting fm'd' It is a flawed ME.

The ME is essentially designed to show us a football match based on footballing principles.  Some of those principles may be on a wonk (bug reports), yet others may not even be in the ME yet (eg., dynamic interchange of roles/players), but footballing principles nonetheless.  The Tactic Creator on the other hand gives us the tools to create systems beyond those principles.  Double Advanced Forwards, double Advanced Playmakers and all 4 wide players trying to head into the centre of the pitch is just such an example.  So whilst the ME can certainly be improved in certain areas, the real flaw here is asking the ME to do something which it isn't really designed for.

That isn't your fault - you're just using the tools at your disposal to create a tactic.  Perhaps some of those tools should be removed until such time as the ME is more capable, I don't know, but it's important to understand that creating such tactics which don't really have any basis in reality may push the ME to it's limits and beyond.  So you're creating lots of chances and failing to finish them?  Sure the ME can be improved and balanced in that area but then so can that tactic.

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15 hours ago, steviemay17 said:

but it just goes up in the air and never clears the 18 yard box, while no matter how many players i designate to the edge of the box ( can be 3v1 in my favour) it will always be the opposing player on the move who gets there.

What highlights are you watching? If it's key or extended, you'd likely not see a corner that's simply headed to safety. 

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I find this match engine to be very poor. I'm just not enjoying this SI.

Balanced mentality, Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence, Work Ball Into Box. I'd like patient, slow build up play, probing for an opening then a quick through ball to finish the move off.

Three out of the four goals I put past West Ham feature Ben Davies as an IWB on support smasing Pirlo-like deliveries all over the place. There's far too much of this happening.

 

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7 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

I find this match engine to be very poor. I'm just not enjoying this SI.

Balanced mentality, Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence, Work Ball Into Box. I'd like patient, slow build up play, probing for an opening then a quick through ball to finish the move off.

Three out of the four goals I put past West Ham feature Ben Davies as an IWB on support smasing Pirlo-like deliveries all over the place. There's far too much of this happening.

 

Not going to disagree, in fact I'll add another factor to the issue - why would AI West Ham play with such a high def line against Spurs?  So a questionable AI decision on top of (inviting?) such long balls in the first place.  Part ME part AI imo in this particular case.

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18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

why would AI West Ham play with such a high def line against Spurs?

The issue doesn't look like the high line itself, but the LCB pressing high up for no reason when not only is there a striker he should be marking, but he leaves a massive gap in the defence for Tottenham's RCM to run through. However West Ham's LCM should be marking/keeping an eye on Tottenham's RCM, but he just switches off and wanders away towards his DM, giving Tottenham's RCM a wide open channel to that gap in the defence. Bizarre defending and none of the West Ham players react to it until the ball is played.

Edited by autohoratio

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My observations are that it doesn't matter how high the D-Line is. I have at least 4-5 one-on-ones every game - against all type of defences. I also tried to modify my own D-Line just to check if it changes anything. Even with very low block my opposition manage to create one on one situation after long ball from deep. 

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3 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

The issue doesn't look like the high line itself, but the LCB pressing high up for no reason when not only is there a striker he should be marking, but he leaves a massive gap in the defence for Tottenham's RCM to run through. However West Ham's LCM should be marking/keeping an eye on Tottenham's RCM, but he just switches off and wanders away towards his DM, giving Tottenham's RCM a wide open channel to that gap in the defence. Bizarre defending and none of the West Ham players react to it until the ball is played.

Yeah for the first goal, Eriksen just runs through the West Ham team and nobody even seems to notice.

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33 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

I find this match engine to be very poor. I'm just not enjoying this SI.

Balanced mentality, Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence, Work Ball Into Box. I'd like patient, slow build up play, probing for an opening then a quick through ball to finish the move off.

Three out of the four goals I put past West Ham feature Ben Davies as an IWB on support smasing Pirlo-like deliveries all over the place. There's far too much of this happening.

 

On the plus side, you had 3 one-on-ones converted in a match which looking around through the forums seems to be some kind of record. :D 

Might be because in these moves your forward is absolutely miles clear of the defence? I'm convinced the missed one-on-ones might be a product of "the forward feels the pressure of the nearby defender" factor being too strong.

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2 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

just runs through the West Ham team and nobody even seems to notice

That seems to be the main issue with CBs: they are ignoring or running towards players running at them.

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1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

What highlights are you watching? If it's key or extended, you'd likely not see a corner that's simply headed to safety. 

on one hand that does make sense, but it's like the ME is creating chances through absolute nonsense defending from set pieces rather than a good delivery or run, I'll need to look through the exact ratio per game but I'm easily seeing between 4-8 situations in each game where shots and highlights are generated through nonsense set piece defending and the inability to react in the next phase.

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33 minutes ago, noikeee said:

On the plus side, you had 3 one-on-ones converted in a match which looking around through the forums seems to be some kind of record. :D 

Might be because in these moves your forward is absolutely miles clear of the defence? I'm convinced the missed one-on-ones might be a product of "the forward feels the pressure of the nearby defender" factor being too strong.

It's possible, but I'm not sure - I've been tracking 1v1s in games the last two days.  I've had 13 in 6 games that I'd consider visible-daylight 1v1s - that is, obvious open space between the attacker and the closest defender.  Of those 13, three have been scored.  There's probably some difference, but I don't think it's major.

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8892717_AjaxvBarcelona_Pitch.thumb.png.188aec8ef438d961ef93eaf58b42586f.png1163831146_AjaxvBarcelona_Pitch-2.thumb.png.f3c7b4e40fa7cc7bdc9a153244e61c21.png

 

This would be an easy tap in goal but no, he shoots from there :( 

 

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Haha same.

Seriously tho, shouldn't need any instructions for similar situations and it happens far too often. Usually it's wingers who shoot rather than pass.

ffs.png

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After playing some more this week i can certainly see glaring issues with the over the top balls, but i believe that those are the problem because the defenders don't react quickly enough. I hope they manage to take care of the issue soon and update the game.

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Don't know if anyone seen the highlights of the Liverpool v Watford game from Saturday, but it was almost a greatest hits package of all the things people have complained about in this year's game - 1 v 1s being missed, wingers shooting instead of crossing, awful defending, shots going miles wide, lots of balls over the top, etc. 

Best league in the world :lol:

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