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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Tony Wright 747:

I would love the challenge of No 2

You can simulate that a bit, by moving to another challenge/club after two successful seasons. But for the majority of the players it seems to be more important to win the CL with their local club than to "act" realistic. 

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20 minutes ago, srvngrc said:

Totally agree. We don’t care about small things. But a few bugs like 1v1s and long balls over defence (actually i think this two are related. long balls create too many 1v1s and ME balancing scorlines by most of 1v1s missing)

And people generally not criticise the bugs, most of us criticise SI’s behaviour. SI don’t care about us. We should be informed about what the dev team working on and when we get a new update. I’m not saying give us an exact date but at least a time interval should given. 

If people want more discourse, then they would do well to start being more mature and less toxic. Every time Si try to interact, there's half a dozen people immediately laying with insults, to the point where SI themselves have to close the threads. Every single day, we're having to ban or infract someone because they can't show basic decency. I would love SI to be more vocal, but actually, looking at the state of this thread, I'm not even remotely convinced its worth their time.

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2 saat önce, KlaaZ said:

Why would a defender on cover be an unrealistic measure to counter balls over the top though? The rest of your comparison is quite nonsensical, sorry. using a CD(C) is a perfect tactical measure. Using your hands is not. 

You don't have to play with a defender on cover by the way. You can also employ the offside trap, put more pressure on the people lunging it over your defense to make sure the passes are off or other things. 

And as Rashidi said, it helps to keep in mind that this is still a video game. And that it will never be an accurate representation of football since:

1) Real life football is too random and complex to replicate, especially for the AI.

2) The moment the ME gets too realistic, they'll lose a huge part of their sales/income because it will become pretty much impossible to become successful with a smaller club (or even a bigger one) for 99% of us.

Actually when the ME gets too realistic then real managers and clubs pay a lot to use it :)

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8 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You can simulate that a bit, by moving to another challenge/club after two successful seasons. But for the majority of the players it seems to be more important to win the CL with their local club than to "act" realistic. 

Yes I realise I am in the minority Kubi, but the more realistic the better for me.  To me taking a team from the national league to the CL in a few seasons is not realistic.  In my FM16 save Euro league group stages with Randers, survival with Toulouse and Canadian champions and midtable MLS with Montreal is about right

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1 dakika önce, themadsheep2001 said:

If people want more discourse, then they would do well to start being more mature and less toxic. Every time Si try to interact, there's half a dozen people immediately laying with insults. Every single day, we're having to ban or infract someone because theyc an't show basic decency. I would love SI to be more vocal, but actually, looking at the state of this thread, I'm not even remotely convinced its worth their time

They didn’t try to inform people. Never. At least a single time SI should try to inform people. Just a few words. “We’re trying to fix bla bla bla and working hard to make it ready before new year or whatever. Thank you for your patience”

I think people would be more positive and constructive with that. 

Uncertainty makes people nervous imo :)

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1 minute ago, srvngrc said:

They didn’t try to inform people. Never. At least a single time SI should try to inform people. Just a few words. “We’re trying to fix bla bla bla and working hard to make it ready before new year or whatever. Thank you for your patience”

I think people would be more positive and constructive with that. 

Uncertainty makes people nervous imo :)

Go and have a look at the match engine forums, if you say never then you've not been paying attention. And if they didnt inform, then how else would you know they are looking into the 1v1s?

Your reply is a perfect example of why its increasingly not worth it

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4 dakika önce, themadsheep2001 said:

Go and have a look at the match engine forums, if you say never then you've not been paying attention. And if they didnt inform, then how else would you know they are looking into the 1v1s?

Your reply is a perfect example of why its increasingly not worth it

I think the problem is, not to say a time frame. Ok, they are looking for a fix. But when? Until Christmas? Maybe in January? Or we should not expect for a hotfix until March? If SI at least declare a estimated date, people set their expectations with this in mind.

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1 dakika önce, themadsheep2001 said:

Go and have a look at the match engine forums, if you say never then you've not been paying attention. And if they didnt inform, then how else would you know they are looking into the 1v1s?

Your reply is a perfect example of why its increasingly not worth it

I think you misunderstood me. Probably because of my non fluent English :)

I didn’t see any date or date like thing. People always asking about when the update will be ready but i really didn’t see anything.

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1 minute ago, akinozcan said:

I think the problem is, not to say a time frame. Ok, they are looking for a fix. But when? Until Christmas? Maybe in January? Or we should not expect for a hotfix until March? If SI at least declare a estimated date, people set their expectations with this in mind.

I'd guess that it's almost impossible to give any timeframe, because even the minor changes to one aspect of ME can have unexpected effects elsewhere. And after fixing those, who knows what else they'll bring up elsewhere.

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16 minutes ago, skog said:

The last few pages have been an extremely interesting read, however, it feels like I'm in a minority of people who understand that SI will never manage to create a ME that accurately reflects football and that, in fact, each iteration of the ME is a feature of the game to be beaten. A boss, if you will. You play around with the tools at your disposal, your tactics, your squad, your training. You keep trying to figure out the weaknesses of the ME and beat it.

Of course there is an issue with certain aspects of the ME this year which are either too effective or too ineffective. SI are almost certainly working around the clock to fix this but each modification of code in one area of the ME could have huge ramifications in another part of the ME. SI are not a huge entity with a million developers and an endless pot of money to throw at fixing problems, they're a moderate sized British business with a turnover of around 12 million GBP. By comparison, EA's revenue for 2018 was 5 billion... and look at the mess that is FIFA20.

Please have a sense of perspective, go back to the gamut of previous games we've all invested so many hours in and remember the great work SI have done for 25 years. Trust the developers, the business, the passionate and dedicated people running SI. They'll get it right.

Very good post

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49 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If people want more discourse, then they would do well to start being more mature and less toxic. Every time Si try to interact, there's half a dozen people immediately laying with insults, to the point where SI themselves have to close the threads. Every single day, we're having to ban or infract someone because they can't show basic decency. I would love SI to be more vocal, but actually, looking at the state of this thread, I'm not even remotely convinced its worth their time.

I get it, I really do but when things are "game breaking" to some/general negative viewers then it has to be answered for it to flow easily, Im not saying its down to the SI to actually tell us cause some other developers don't but it would be vital for communication in this game and keep the base of the game (in terms of the forums) positive rather than toxic as it benefits us both. Banning people will lose sales as a possibility, and that is on them rather than the SI but if they had been ackoweldged by certain SI staff in general (not directly- "it's being looked at") just doesn't satisfy some people. 

The thread can go off sometimes but it's a reasoanble debate (As long as it's viable by mods and SI). I do have a suggestion of allowing the SI or even mods to pick who get to see it, that way it's been vetted to some degree or allow streamers/mods have their own unjoinable private thread and be the link between us so then we do get some feedback?? Care to hear thoughts on this both mods/si and others (that are civil!!)

Some people think the SI don't listen, having heard that they are and that they ARE working on it or AREN'T then it's up to us to decide, any abuse then the mods do their jobs but realistically you shouldn't have to. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Go and have a look at the match engine forums, if you say never then you've not been paying attention. And if they didnt inform, then how else would you know they are looking into the 1v1s?

Your reply is a perfect example of why its increasingly not worth it

It would be really helpful to have a sticky at the top of the forum that simply lists things that are known issues.  No due dates or anything, just a place to point at to say "yes, we know 1v1s aren't exactly right and we're working on it".  Add stuff when new issues are prioritized, remove stuff when it's addressed in a patch.  The current system asks users to flip through a ton of threads and remember when that thread was made relative to the last patch and figure out what is and isn't still a going concern.

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36 minutes ago, skog said:

The last few pages have been an extremely interesting read, however, it feels like I'm in a minority of people who understand that SI will never manage to create a ME that accurately reflects football and that, in fact, each iteration of the ME is a feature of the game to be beaten. A boss, if you will. You play around with the tools at your disposal, your tactics, your squad, your training. You keep trying to figure out the weaknesses of the ME and beat it.

Of course there is an issue with certain aspects of the ME this year which are either too effective or too ineffective. SI are almost certainly working around the clock to fix this but each modification of code in one area of the ME could have huge ramifications in another part of the ME. SI are not a huge entity with a million developers and an endless pot of money to throw at fixing problems, they're a moderate sized British business with a turnover of around 12 million GBP. By comparison, EA's revenue for 2018 was 5 billion... and look at the mess that is FIFA20.

Please have a sense of perspective, go back to the gamut of previous games we've all invested so many hours in and remember the great work SI have done for 25 years. Trust the developers, the business, the passionate and dedicated people running SI. They'll get it right.

+1

But for me i think this is a good ME , just little tweaks in ball over the top , 1v1 conversion and really its perfect (for me)

Try to play the game and not give attention to specific details all the time.. off course the 1v1 conversion and ball over the top are annoying sometimes but SI aware of that.. otherwise i think this is good build of the ME 

The only thing that im curious about is if SI will post a fix before March 

Edited by GOODNAME

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2 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

It would be really helpful to have a sticky at the top of the forum that simply lists things that are known issues.  No due dates or anything, just a place to point at to say "yes, we know 1v1s aren't exactly right and we're working on it".  Add stuff when new issues are prioritized, remove stuff when it's addressed in a patch.  The current system asks users to flip through a ton of threads and remember when that thread was made relative to the last patch and figure out what is and isn't still a going concern.

CJ Ramson had one in the match engine forum, which he was updated, and then when 2026 opened it up, and got absolutely battered. So its a good shout, but something that was immediately ruined. Maybe a closed sticky might work... but again the mentality of the forum ( and I must absolutely stress its not everyone, there's some genuinely brilliant users here) would need to change

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14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

CJ Ramson had one in the match engine forum, which he was updated, and then when 2026 opened it up, and got absolutely battered. So its a good shout, but something that was immediately ruined. Maybe a closed sticky might work... but again the mentality of the forum ( and I must absolutely stress its not everyone, there's some genuinely brilliant users here) would need to change

I was absolutely thinking a closed sticky.  It might be a useful tool for focusing feedback and keeping things on-track in that forum, along with perhaps looser moderation in this thread and much tighter moderation in the bug reporting forums.

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45 minuti fa, skog ha scritto:

The last few pages have been an extremely interesting read, however, it feels like I'm in a minority of people who understand that SI will never manage to create a ME that accurately reflects football and that, in fact, each iteration of the ME is a feature of the game to be beaten. A boss, if you will. You play around with the tools at your disposal, your tactics, your squad, your training. You keep trying to figure out the weaknesses of the ME and beat it.

Of course there is an issue with certain aspects of the ME this year which are either too effective or too ineffective. SI are almost certainly working around the clock to fix this but each modification of code in one area of the ME could have huge ramifications in another part of the ME. SI are not a huge entity with a million developers and an endless pot of money to throw at fixing problems, they're a moderate sized British business with a turnover of around 12 million GBP. By comparison, EA's revenue for 2018 was 5 billion... and look at the mess that is FIFA20.

Please have a sense of perspective, go back to the gamut of previous games we've all invested so many hours in and remember the great work SI have done for 25 years. Trust the developers, the business, the passionate and dedicated people running SI. They'll get it right.

This is a good point. The goal is to have a game enjoyable, so the ME should be not exploitable, it's needed a good balance, so that all the way of playing could be right or wrong, depending on our team, the team we're playing against, their tactics and so on...

However the ME should represent the game IRL, this is really important for full immersion and making things more interesting. 

It's a hard task: they need to simulate real football, but keep things balanced as the gameplay is the most important aspect anyway.

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1 minute ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

I was absolutely thinking a closed sticky.  It might be a useful tool for focusing feedback and keeping things on-track in that forum, along with perhaps looser moderation in this thread and much tighter moderation in the bug reporting forums.

In an ideal world we'd have nothing to do, which is how we'd like it, but not the case. Will probe CJ's thoughts

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

In an ideal world we'd have nothing to do, which is how we'd like it, but not the case. Will probe CJ's thoughts

The hope is that people would vent here and have all their no-PKM 'yes i am also experiencing this' complaints in the ME AI and Tactics forums deleted.

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12 hours ago, robinthebest said:

this is why i dont play anymore, why do I have to accommodate myself to an obvious ME issue, that ruined the fun of playing FM, playing the formation i desired, playing the way I want, i used to play with 4231 all the time, concede to counter attack sometimes, its fine

 

but now every game just concede 5-6 long ball and 1v1, although they couldnt score, i couldnt enjoy it anymore.

The system tried to keep the scoreline normal by nerfing 1v1, but long ball over the top happens so often, thats why we see so many missed 1v1, that's the problem of the ME, they compensate long ball bug by making 1v1 failing

Also, this isn't really a fix. Doesn't matter how quick your defender is if he stand still to give the forward a head start to the ball every time. the issues with the Me are that, seeing the problems on the pitch resulting from unrealistic scenarios destroys any sembelenace of "simulation" where you try to apply real world solutions to problems

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3 minutes ago, Serptimo said:

Also, this isn't really a fix. Doesn't matter how quick your defender is if he stand still to give the forward a head start to the ball every time. the issues with the Me are that, seeing the problems on the pitch resulting from unrealistic scenarios destroys any sembelenace of "simulation" where you try to apply real world solutions to problems

You need to get a better defender, because in my game even Welsh amateur defenders don't do that.

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

match engine forums

 

46 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

CJ Ramson had one in the match engine forum, which he was updated, and then when 2026 opened it up, and got absolutely battered. So its a good shout, but something that was immediately ruined. Maybe a closed sticky might work... but again the mentality of the forum ( and I must absolutely stress its not everyone, there's some genuinely brilliant users here) would need to change

Have there been posts deleted in that thread? To be honest I don't see it as getting absolutely battered. 2 people in that thread said they are still having issues with one on ones and balls over the top. Admittedly they also said they wouldn't buy the game again, but I don't see how that's getting 'absolutely battered'. Reading that thread it just seems SI don't want to hear that so just closed it - they only want positive feedback.

 

The thread was then locked with CJ stating that the team were happy with the overall match engine.

 

To me there is no feedback in there from SI stating that they are aware of the issue's that people are experiencing. I have been here for 15 years I think and I have never felt this way about the game. It is border line unplayable to me. I can win games, don't get me wrong, I am doing well at the moment. But, I can't play the game the way I want to play the game. I have to play the game the way that FM demands I play it. In FM you could always win multiple ways and be successful in many different ways. To me, at the moment, the issue is you can't win or be successful in certain ways and that takes FM into a 'scripted' game.

 

I don't know what SI are looking into, when they anticipate another patch being out, if they hope to have these issues resolved etc. What I do know is how well the game is doing, how it is a best seller, how many people are playing etc because that is what is put out there.

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19 minutes ago, Mikke said:

You need to get a better defender, because in my game even Welsh amateur defenders don't do that.

Better defenders do not help. So far I have started with Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs. In relative terms they are all good teams with good defenders. During the game when a long ball over the top is played, I would estimate, 90% of the time the striker reacts first and the defender then can't catch him.

This isn't just limited to the user though. The AI's defender also reacts this way. Which then results in dozens of 1v1's.

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21 minutes ago, Mikke said:

You need to get a better defender, because in my game even Welsh amateur defenders don't do that.

just when I think Jurgen Klopp cant get more impressive, finding out he has won the UCL and sits on top of the EPL when his central defenders aren't even up to Welsh amateur level is truly astounding 

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15 minutes ago, davehanson said:

 

Have there been posts deleted in that thread? To be honest I don't see it as getting absolutely battered. 2 people in that thread said they are still having issues with one on ones and balls over the top. Admittedly they also said they wouldn't buy the game again, but I don't see how that's getting 'absolutely battered'. Reading that thread it just seems SI don't want to hear that so just closed it - they only want positive feedback.

 

The thread was then locked with CJ stating that the team were happy with the overall match engine.

 

To me there is no feedback in there from SI stating that they are aware of the issue's that people are experiencing. I have been here for 15 years I think and I have never felt this way about the game. It is border line unplayable to me. I can win games, don't get me wrong, I am doing well at the moment. But, I can't play the game the way I want to play the game. I have to play the game the way that FM demands I play it. In FM you could always win multiple ways and be successful in many different ways. To me, at the moment, the issue is you can't win or be successful in certain ways and that takes FM into a 'scripted' game.

 

I don't know what SI are looking into, when they anticipate another patch being out, if they hope to have these issues resolved etc. What I do know is how well the game is doing, how it is a best seller, how many people are playing etc because that is what is put out there.

Loads deleted, hence my post

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6 minutes ago, Serptimo said:

just when I think Jurgen Klopp cant get more impressive, finding out he has won the UCL and sits on top of the EPL when his central defenders aren't even up to Welsh amateur level is truly astounding 

Looks like his defenders can't manage 1v1 situations as well as Welsh amateurs, anyway - at least in FM20. I've also never had any problems with 1v1 conversion rate, and I've played only with lower league teams in FM20 (except Singapore Premier League, but it's crap anyway).

My own experience and comments in thread have made me suspect that higher level teams struggle with 1v1s MORE than lower level teams, but there isn't enough data from lower league managers for me to be able to make such assumptions. And if there is, I haven't noticed that.

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Defender (player) reaction to long/lose balls seems one of the major factors in guys being unleashed behind the lines this easily. You see this on the top levels too. In particular if the defenders have to turn as they were facing in the direction of the ball before -- their turn can tage what feels ages on the occasion. Which is likely also why SI won't just release a hot fix. Generally tuning player reaction/turning likely will create all kind of knock-ons all over the pitch, rather than just improving the defending of long balls. This looks like it may require longer term testing.

 

Edited by Svenc

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2 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Defender (player) reaction to long/lose balls seems one of the major factors in guys being unleashed behind the lines this easily. You see this on all kind of levels tho. In particular if the defenders have to turn as they were facing in the direction of the ball before -- their turn can tage what feels ages on the occasion. Which is likely also why SI won't just release a hot fix. Generally tuning player reaction/turning likely will create all kind of knock-ons all over the pitch, rather than just improving the defending of long balls.

 

I have no issue at all with SI taking their time to ensure that whatever they do makes the game better not worse.

 

However, it isn't communicated. At all. Why not just put a post up here, twitter wherever stating that these are the issues and they are doing something about them? Doesn't have to be an open thread can be locked.

And, why on earth where these not seen before the beta even came out?

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2 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Eh, defender (player) reaction to long/lose balls seems one of the Major factors in guys being unleashed behind the lines this easily. You see this on all kind of levels tho. In particular if the defenders have to turn as they were facing in the direction of the ball before -- their turn can tage what feels ages on the occasion. Which is likely also why SI won't just release a hot fix. Generally tuning player reaction/turning likely will create all kind of knock-ons all over the pitch, rather than just improving the defending of long balls.

 

yeah they definitiely need too look at that area. I bought in two pacey new cd´s with good anticipation but the balls keep flying in behind anyway. Could also be press related that the attacking teams players get to play the pass too easily and with too good precision.

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4 minutes ago, davehanson said:

And, why on earth where these not seen before the beta even came out?

in some instances, these are not issues before the game comes out. think of as throwing a stone into a pond. one stone causes how many ripples? one change in game can cause so many other changes it it almost unimaginable. 

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Just as a general comment, I think SI have been doing a great job in interacting with the community and moving the game forward in a direction that is mainly satisfactory to the majority of people.

 

The UI this year is very good and so many great features have been added to the game that are frankly amazing in depth and in incorporating user feedback through the years.

 

Now the issue with the ME is that we have different expectations, We need to come to common grounds on the fundamentals of a football simulation representation, Stuff like hitting the woodwork 6 times every game, identical goals scored or world class players missing 15 chances a game are stuff that need to be addressed and not argued about and compared to real life.

 

This is a game and frankly I believe it’s impossible for it to reflect real life because football has a certain randomness to it, But there are boundaries for freakish or abnormal behaviour of course. To me I think the game should reflect at least top teams,managers and top players’ style just to give us confidence that it’s on the right track. When I watch Barca or Liverpool on ME I want to see them do what their attributes and tactics suggest they are all about!

 

We need to all calm down, And trust that we are getting very close to a very good ME complimenting a great fm game, Our feedback is important as well and it does make a difference.

 

I do notice some individuals who try to deny anything wrong about the game, You get these types of people in every walk of life and as long as they don’t ridicule or distort anyone trying to fix things, No problem at all.

Edited by qwerty22

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Don't know is it worth to raise this as a bug, because it's a small bug. As in picture, Tonali's agent said that his client can be bought for 29,5mil but his client can be bought for 14,5mil because of his relegation release clause which is active.

78949593_554542825386920_2453526305795211264_n.thumb.png.ab591b133f33e9dfdc8ad82734f6087b.png

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb KUBI:

You can simulate that a bit, by moving to another challenge/club after two successful seasons. But for the majority of the players it seems to be more important to win the CL with their local club than to "act" realistic. 

Ofc that is bcs they have still a sense of Loyality oposite to the Mercenary Mindeset modern Profsport promotes and patronizes.

They act accordingly to  an idealized alternate reality which makes complete sense.

I myself would be dead unhappy in the modern soccer environment bcs i want to see something grow that has an intrinsic, emotional, physical value instead of watching the debt grow others are forced to pay for me while not even realizing it.

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32 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

I myself would be dead unhappy in the modern soccer environment bcs i want to see something grow that has an intrinsic, emotional, physical value instead of watching the debt grow others are forced to pay for me while not even realizing it.

This is why I think FM needs a 'Club' mode - where you represent the club as a whole and ride out the promotions/relegations. Any sacking just forces you to choose a new manager name and resets to a blank sheet of manager achievements.  It would kind of play like being the leader in one of the Paradox games such as Crusader Kings.

Would be ideal for those people who generally stick with their favourite club rather than play journeyman style.

 

Edited by rp1966

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10 hours ago, davehanson said:

I have no issue at all with SI taking their time to ensure that whatever they do makes the game better not worse.

However, it isn't communicated. At all. Why not just put a post up here, twitter wherever stating that these are the issues and they are doing something about them? Doesn't have to be an open thread can be locked.

Past experience likely. They used to be much more open. Ten years ago even the main coder of the ME discussed things in public, how he saw Things (sometimes differently to the Players), what he would like to patch. In one release, they had basically admitted to big ME changes being implemented as a comparably "last minute decision" prior to a release. When things weren't working as they should 100% for everybody, they got accused of treating their customers as beta testers, willingly. So they may go a bit more cautious with what they promise, even estimate. I used to like it back then also far more. There was really a community kind of spirit a lot of the time. However, it is what it is now.

I have recently also tried to address SI staff how they view 1vs1 for instance, in general. Not their defending andn that of the long balls. Just how they view 1vs1s. And how they view them in the game currently, considering that there are some that are converted as highly as 50/50 rates (no pressure as no defender nearby, decent angle to Goal, central position in the box.) Others however far less so. No reply. I can only go by quotes past. The tone of this place has probably killed all that. And that's not the General criticism. We had great criticism threads in the past. Actually criticism going en detail into things. However, when Bobby McFootballfan logs on to just vent about how forwards couldn't score, and that things were broken,… (to be fair, not all criticism is like that!).

Perhaps a frustration thread was a good idea, a virtual community.sigames.cam anger room, a place solely dedicated to venting a bit. Would still need moderation likely, mind. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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Playing 4-3-3 fairly attack minded and scoring for fun with Hibs, 1v1 isn't much of a problem,  score some and miss some like in reality. Scoring goals all over the pitch, so far so good, please leave it alone now thanks.

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It's not just the missing 1v1s. It's also the prevalence of player getting through squared or almost squared on goal. Alone with the keeper. It happens constantly.

The hardcore defenders on this forum keep alluding to some sort of mythical "pressure" that is coming from a trailing defender who's 2 metres behind the striker, as the reason for the constant missing 1v1s. The fact is, these sort of chances are rare in real life. A player, running toward the goalkeeper with no one in front of him. Commentators and anyone watching a game irl call these "100% chances" when they occur. Yes, obviously not the case. But the conversion for obviously big chances is ridiculously bad on FM. Either it's straight at the keeper, or the ball flies miles past goal almost hitting the corner flag. Not just one offs, I see ridiculously badly placed misses very, very often in FM. Like easy shots from 10-15 metre distance going comically wide.

Also, just waaaaay too many shots on target almost every game. It's not uncommon to see 15 shots on target between the teams, something which is quite rare irl.

Also, penalty conversions are a mess. Too many misses.

Just refering to what the game calls a big chance through the "data analyisis bro" is not sufficient. If the data is not in line with what's blatantly obvious on the 3d match engine, then there's a serious need to look at what we see visually represented in the match engine. Because the fact is, I see what ANY football fan would characterize as a MASSIVE chance missed OVER and OVER again. Game after game. So many ridiculously huge chances created(on both sides) yet so few goals scored. Not only are big chances too prevalent, so are the missing of these big chances. A fair scoreline for many games in FM based on just what we're seeing in 3D is like 4-4 or 5-5.

Edited by yandex

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15 часов назад, themadsheep2001 сказал:

If people want more discourse, then they would do well to start being more mature and less toxic. Every time Si try to interact, there's half a dozen people immediately laying with insults, to the point where SI themselves have to close the threads. Every single day, we're having to ban or infract someone because they can't show basic decency. I would love SI to be more vocal, but actually, looking at the state of this thread, I'm not even remotely convinced its worth their time.

Well toxic is a reason why I dont visit comments of any media, social resources, etc. As one writer said 'Internet is like public toilet in railroad. Do your business fast, careful and dont read inscriptions on a wall' :D But toxic atmosphere is everywhere, it is a damn internet :D For example EPL Broadcoasting in Russia bought online cinema service for next years. They have some issues in beginning because this is new case for their business. So they ignore members? No, there are communication with customers. Some customers were really angry but servise just answered like 'We are very sorry for the inconvenience' because how it works public relations department. And feedback from service for customers is working. Its better than to ignore angry customers for long-term perspective (Compensation system was also introduced too but this is another story, I dont believe its a good idea to SI give free IGE editors as compensation :D). So if you work with people which pay you money - be ready for toxic anyway. Deserved or undeserved.

if you are indi developer or positioning yourself like that at least so you can ignore customers, dont use PR department, etc. But if you use price for own product like AAA category, you are talking about millions sales so be ready for toxic please. I believe this is true deal. If price for FM was like indi game it will be less pressure. (I don’t get into the SI pricing policy, just selling games at such a high price, get ready for the corresponding service)  If developers use any public feedback - less pressure. Damn SI he may not even read comments for their feedback, there are no any useful in comments ever. Just day ## of FM20 release. We focused on this, this and this, but have troubles with this and this so maybe will happen this or this or maybe not. This how it works

Edited by Novem9

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14 minutes ago, yandex said:

Commentators and anyone watching a game irl call these "100% chances" when they occur

Some good Points, but: Don't trust commentary. Ever. If they'd ever be remotely Right, the average Football scoreline was indeed 5-5. :D 

I don't think that's the case for a good deal of FM 20 Matches btw. One some, maybe. But as the game doesn't have These stats, I repeat:  players tend to miss how many of their shots in actual central positions tend to be exclusively from the set piece (marked, pressured Header). Plus quite a few one on ones are finished from suspect angles and/or Yards out. We can debate why they are finished that way, and how they are too frequent, but atm it is what it is.

Edited by Svenc

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1 minute ago, Svenc said:

Some good Points, but: Don't trust commentary. Ever. If they'd ever be remotely Right, the average Football scoreline was indeed 5-5. :D 

Even the exaggerating commentators don't slag off players for missing a 100% chance more than once per game. Because these sort of chances rarely get created more than ONCE per game - (and if they do, they are typically scored, yaknow).

Edited by yandex

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5 minutes ago, yandex said:

Even the exaggerating commentators don't slag off players for missing a 100% chance more than once per game. Because these sort of chances rarely get created more than ONCE per game - (and if they do, they are typically scored, yaknow).

Yep, as Morata so aptly demonstrated back against Arsenal: If this stuff happens more than once per match (he had 3 of them and missed them all), it is rated differently than if it would be over time. Like: "OMG, guy can't finish." The Chance would still stay the same though. Which is another reason to bring the frequency down, even if the conversion wouldn't be ever touched (not suggesting it shouldn't). :D 

On FM there is another reason to tune this and bring the frequency itself down: The game tends to flag Forwards snatching at chances as "frustrated", and the keeper slowly growing in "confidence" with every save...

Edited by Svenc

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The only thing I’ve noticed strange about penalties is that theyre constantly taken low. But not so many misses my main pen taker have missed only once in 15 attempts.

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40 minutes ago, yandex said:

Even the exaggerating commentators don't slag off players for missing a 100% chance more than once per game. Because these sort of chances rarely get created more than ONCE per game - (and if they do, they are typically scored, yaknow).

On average they are created 3 times a game in the premier league. Converted at 0.58 game 

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20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

On average they are created 3 times a game in the premier league. Converted at 0.58 game 

That is naturally assuming the commentators only yell "HE'S GOTTA SCORE" at Opta Data Big Chances (not to be confused with SI Clear Cut Whatsitsname). Which he doesn't. :D Unlike the guys checking at Opta, he isn't schooled at anything when it comes to analysis, therefore, he's got to be crap at it and no better than a football fan from the streets. Tbf, he's simply there to entertain and to thrill. However, these are still the kind of guys that "teach" an audience of hungry football fans every week how the game is supposedly to work. Half of the stuff they raise their voice over in dramatic fashion I've just come to shrug off personally.  

Edited by Svenc

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35 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

On average they are created 3 times a game in the premier league. Converted at 0.58 game 

I am talking about a player being through alone and squared with the keeper, inside the box, without a defender being close enough to impose any physicality. You know, the sort of chances that are created and missed constantly on FM.

 

Edited by yandex

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Is this a bug or really unlucky/ridiculously bad positioning?

 

We lose the ball in this situation. We are slightly unlucky as the RB is out of play (injury), but besides that, the team looks like I wanted: defensive mid dropping to the backline creating back 3 when the FBs push forward. 6 here is CM covering for the injured RB. Not perfect but could be much worse.

t2bKd0Y.jpg

 

Then the ball goes to the wing and things start to look a little bit ropey. We are open in the middle but I'm fine with this since we had a man down for a bit (he's back tho, you can see him sprinting back (2))

BxPZVQO.jpg

 

Now, what should my DM (13) do? Stay in the middle? Nope, he sprints at full speed to the RB position (not even looking what's happening with the ball) and in the end, we have 3 (!!) players in the RB position marking ONE and the middle is completely open. 

iCmpdRx.jpg

 

But this isn't the end of the nightmarish defending. Number 5 is a BPD on Cover duty and he has runner (70) close to him. So, what did he do? Completely ignored 70 and charged forward to the guy with ball. 

YmnfNtG.jpg

 

So, should I report a bug? Or is this just weird mix-up by my players?

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It's becoming clearer with examples of miss positioning of players when trying to defend or on the transition before losing the ball, as mitija said report it as a bug, also check other threads see if it occuers elsewhere rather than opening another thread, that way it's easier for SI to access and see and less clogging up. 

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If I never see a player stop moving, square up to a stationary defender who's six inches away and blast a cross into his kneecaps again, it will be too soon.  This has been happening for at least five years, it never happens in real football, and it's completely awful to watch.  Give me back fullbacks smashing the ball over the penalty area to each other over this.  I am so, so sick of it.  (And what is going on with the stats?  9 crosses show up in the Analysis tab for my team, five for my opposition.  I've attempted 32 (!!!) in 45 minutes and the opposition have tried 10.)

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