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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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1 hour ago, pats said:

The defenders (specially top defenders) randomly not reacting to the long balls allowing one on one to the inferior strikers is the single biggest disappointment at the moment. Yes, the high DL needs to be punished but it should look natural. Currently it looks as though the defenders are re-tard-ed which is main source of frustration.

Is that not more an animation issue? Something that has plagued the 3D engine since it was introduced. 

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36 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Is that not more an animation issue? Something that has plagued the 3D engine since it was introduced. 

I really doubt. Same could then be said about most issues. How many 1on1's are there on average in game? Its a known issue, they are working on it, hopefully we will have it fixed soon. 

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1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Oh I so enjoy this that I want to smoke :D 

 

Holy crap the defending movement on that gave me the jeepers. What is that LCB doing? why does he cover left back come back, stand next to the RCB and then go into DM. Wtaf!! Good goal though not taking anything away xD

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2 минуты назад, BigV сказал:

Holy crap the defending movement on that gave me the jeepers. What is that LCB doing? why does he cover left back come back, stand next to the RCB and then go into DM. Wtaf!! Good goal though not taking anything away xD

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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12 hours ago, Zilla Blitz said:

I'm in the final stretch of my first season down in the Vanarama National North, about half played before the latest patch and half played with the latest patch.

General feedback

- This might be the most fun I've had in a season of football manager. I'm really liking the latest match engine overall, although I despised the match engine before this. I see a lot of variety in goals, lots of variety in play.

- I've been reading here some of the comments about how tactics don't impact the game enough, but I'm not finding that to be the case for me. My changes seem to have a significant impact on the match, and I feel like I can build a team how I'd like and make it work. 

- The only exception to this would be having a speedy CD on Cover in your back four. I can't imagine playing without this with this match engine. With it, we've dramatically reduced our opponents' ability to score using balls over the top.

Things that could be better

- Number of balls over the top and conversion rates. I can live with things now, as the game usually has a lot of 1v1s and some of them score, so overall the impact on the game seems about the same as if there were fewer 1v1s and more highly converted. But yeah, it'd be nice to see this addressed.

- Just going on my own keeper's match ratings, I wonder if goalkeeper ratings are too low, or perhaps dependent on passing more than they should be? Our keeper has certainly performed well this year, but has a rating of about 6.6.

- Sounds are kind of messed up in my game. Random dribbling sounds at various points in the match. Cheering timing seems to be off on occasion as well. I've had sounds cut out after making subs, etc.

- Other minor bugs

- Match video drops to below 60FPS and stutters unless I'm running OBS. With OBS the engine stays dialed in at 60FPS and never changes. So now I always run OBS when I play and everything is fine. Not the best solution but it works.

Overall though, I'm having a wonderful time with the game. Thanks for everyone's hard work!

I concur with all of this.

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7 минут назад, themadsheep2001 сказал:

Forget the movement, what kind of maniac gives numbers 8 and 11 to centre backs?!

lol I didnt notice this issue. They are no CBs

35291072_Image6.thumb.png.3483d88b814dc786cdc25f3d452aa157.png 

 

5 минут назад, BigV сказал:

Are you on "expressive" for freedom of movement by any chance? 

No, why you asking? My TI in this match:

Спойлер

1345708533_Image2.thumb.png.121dcf5c3fc0b3a6ed7148d96d0f2dc2.png

 

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3 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I'm 16 games into a 34 game season I'm top and it's been a season of 8 games then 8 games, being incredibly distinct. 

First 8 games, games were end to end with both AI and me attempting to win the game. Most games had plenty of chances and I won 6 and drew 2. Every game had goals and I was loving. I even came back from 2 down to win 3-2!

Last 8 games. I've won all 8 in soulless 1 and 2 nil victories. Yes I haven't conceded in 8 games. But this is purely because the AI has seemingly taken its ball home and refuses to take anymore than 1 or 2 men out of its own 18 yard box. So most games involve me having 10-15 shots. 1 or 2 CCC's and the AI having 1 maybe 2 shots all game. 

Yes games like this happen IRL but they are notable because they are so rare. Newcastle v Man City or Bournemouth v Man City spring to mind. In most football matches IRL most teams at least attempt to win the matches. Where as in FM most sides just attempt to not get beaten too badly. The bottom 6 in the league are averaging 0.2-05 goals per game. I'm not even averaging 2 and I've scored the most in the league. 

I disagree, I'm spanish and a Barça fan, you should've seen how in Guardiola's best year EVERYONE but Real Madrid and some teams in the CL parked the bus in the area, including Mourinho, and trying to score with 2 or 3 players in counter attacks.

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9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

lol I didnt notice this issue. They are no CBs

35291072_Image6.thumb.png.3483d88b814dc786cdc25f3d452aa157.png 

 

No, why you asking? My TI in this match:

  Hide contents

1345708533_Image2.thumb.png.121dcf5c3fc0b3a6ed7148d96d0f2dc2.png

 

Never seen such a ridiculous thing in fm, I like how it's worse than originally thought.

Nvm i was thinking playing with greater freedom would make them roam around and move them out of position. 

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8 minutes ago, BigV said:

Never seen such a ridiculous thing in fm, I like how it's worse than originally thought.

Nvm i was thinking playing with greater freedom would make them roam around and move them out of position. 

This is what happens when your players aren't positioned properly in throw ins or fouls.

Basically 11 was out of position in the throw in so 6 had to cover the space, then 5 had to cover 6's and 11 was too far to go back so he covered 5's position. As they transition 11 and 5 switch... This happen, easy to fix for us, not so easy for the AI.

Whoever played enough to FM knows how switches and re-position happen and when.

Edited by Sharkn20
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Just now, Sharkn20 said:

This is what happens when your players aren't positioned properly in throw ins or fouls.

Basically 11 was out of position in the throw in so 6 had to cover the space, then 5 had to cover 6's and 11 was too far to go back so he covered 5's position. As they transition 11 and 5 switch... This happen, easy to fix for us, not so easy for the AI.

It all starts because number 3 has taken the wrong man, so 11 is out of of position, small error, big ramifications

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3 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

This happen, easy to fix for us, not so easy for the AI

 

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It all starts because number 3 has taken the wrong man, so 11 is out of of position, small error, big ramifications

Is that even bug worthy of reporting? how often does this happen for the AI taking into account of league and quality ofc. 

Issues regarding set peices like players not listening to your way of the set up is a common thing according to the bugs forum so quite easily exploitable from both the AI and Player. 

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Just now, BigV said:

 

Is that even bug worthy of reporting? how often does this happen for the AI taking into account of league and quality ofc. 

Issues regarding set peices like players not listening to your way of the set up is a common thing according to the bugs forum so quite easily exploitable from both the AI and Player. 

I assume Novem has not asked 3 to do that, so I would raise it personally

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2 minutes ago, BigV said:

 

Is that even bug worthy of reporting? how often does this happen for the AI taking into account of league and quality ofc. 

Issues regarding set peices like players not listening to your way of the set up is a common thing according to the bugs forum so quite easily exploitable from both the AI and Player. 

I've reported it. Not had a response.

 

 

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1 минуту назад, themadsheep2001 сказал:

I was saying that you hadn't asked your defender to take that position

Wait.. Its my team score this goal :D 

as I can see all my players stayed exactly by keeping formation, so I have no idea why white-blue players stayed like they did + I always using default throws so its 100% AI issue

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4 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Wait.. Its my team score this goal :D 

as I can see all my players stayed exactly by keeping formation, so I have no idea why white-blue players stayed like they did + I always using default throws so its 100% AI issue

oh I see! :D And yeah definite bug then

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In the end, I raised a lot of issues for last years but this is the most unexpected :D

A little piece about this:

@Novem9 - Wow this is amazing goal check it out guys!
@BigV - Not bad, but so terrible defence!
@themadsheep2001 - What is really terrible are numbers of these idiots!
@Novem9 - Oh no this is a trap! They are not CBs at all!
@BigV - Still worse than we thought. Where is my shotgun?
@themadsheep2001 - no shotgun needed, my moderator's force could explain this!
@BigV - I see, so this is a bug?
@themadsheep2001 - I think so
@Novem9 - Issue raised!
@Jack Joyce - Guys I hate you why you just can't enjoy a nice goal?!

Edited by Novem9
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Personally I thought this showed a fluid mentality in the AI defence working perfectly, albeit not that perfectly as they conceded :lol:, but you know what I mean. Players helping outwith their natural positions, which is what the old 'very fluid' setting used to try and represent. 

But then, you know, I'm a glass full sorta guy. 

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Probably the wrong thread for this, and I imagine all real life managers in this league will ask the same question, but is there anyone who manages a team in Scotland other than Rangers able to even compete with Celtic. I just cannot beat them, no matter what I do. Surely there's someone out there who's got the better of them earlyish into a save. 

image.thumb.png.bb480888b071a1b2b9bb2f78fd702a0f.png

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Probably the wrong thread for this, and I imagine all real life managers in this league will ask the same question, but is there anyone who manages a team in Scotland other than Rangers able to even compete with Celtic. I just cannot beat them, no matter what I do. Surely there's someone out there who's got the better of them earlyish into a save. 

image.thumb.png.bb480888b071a1b2b9bb2f78fd702a0f.png

Just the once with Dundee United in an end of season dead rubber. Had about 5 shots to their 25+ and won the game 2-0. Watched most of the game through my fingers - it was a bit like the first Rocky Apollo Creed fight.

Played them in the Cup Final that season as well. 0-0 up to the 81st minute and lost 2-0

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Personally I thought this showed a fluid mentality in the AI defence working perfectly, albeit not that perfectly as they conceded :lol:, but you know what I mean. Players helping outwith their natural positions, which is what the old 'very fluid' setting used to try and represent. 

But then, you know, I'm a glass full sorta guy. 

It did, but number 3 is in the wrong place defending a throw in, that's the main issue for me. The scramble defence after was actually good

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Playing my classic save with Hibs more than the main game at the moment, and since that version was updated to the current match engine, I'm loving it even more. In my last two games my new signing CF has smashed in four 1v1 chances. Which is nice. The only criticism I'd give is that balls over the top seem to be increased in frequency, but then my last opponent (home and away vs Young Boys in the Euro Cup II) played a very high line in both matches, so it could be a result of that. I didn't see many balls over the top against my own defence. 

The matches play out better now, and I've noticed players making a few more mistakes which is actually what I wanted to see more of as it's more realistic. Especially in Scotland :lol:

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On 11/12/2019 at 06:15, Welshace said:

Sorry, i can see how my reply might have come across as petulent... I didn't mean it to be!   I just meant it would be handy to have a bit more detal on the issue is all, which you have now given

No worries mate, sadly inflection is lost online. I hope they get this (and the multitude of other bugs with club vision) sorted soon. I was really enjoying that save and won't start a new one with this bug still happening (quite a few reports from various teams from llm all the way to top flight) 

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2 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

I disagree, I'm spanish and a Barça fan, you should've seen how in Guardiola's best year EVERYONE but Real Madrid and some teams in the CL parked the bus in the area, including Mourinho, and trying to score with 2 or 3 players in counter attacks.

Yeah, but that was arguably the greatest team ever, with arguably the greatest player of all time.  Not just a team that's doing OK and winning some games.

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17 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Yeah, but that was arguably the greatest team ever, with arguably the greatest player of all time.  Not just a team that's doing OK and winning some games.

Still the AI will park the bus generally when they have the odds down, is up to us to break it down and score to make them go out...

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20 hours ago, srvngrc said:

Thinking the same. It’s like a hotfix for gamebreaking issues. In bugs section there is a lot of threads about 1v1s, underperforming strikers, long balls, defensive movement etc. 

So i think we should and will get an update.

With a few good change, the ME can be the best ever.

 

My striker scored 35 goals in a season, admittedly it's Lautoro and he won the PA lotto and is close to 200 and we score a ton of striker one-on-ones due to pass into space, but he is competing for goals with the other 5 star players that make up my front line (Mo Salah really draw a lot of the passes). So I can't find anything wrong with good strikers in the current ME, the 35 goals is more on the to many side.

 

As for not so good strikers, I'm not sure I have any that is up against real opposition so both B and u19 score a ton of goals, but it is still 1-2 star players at that level, the mental's should be worse than most 1st team strikers, even if they aren't at a top 5 club.

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3 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Still the AI will park the bus generally when they have the odds down, is up to us to break it down and score to make them go out...

Sure.  I just think they park the bus too often.  My flat back 5, 2 DM screenshot came against a team that was at the time about 10 points behind me in the league.  It was a home game for them.  They were 5th in the league, had won 6 of 8 games, scoring 3 or more goals in four of those games; they've only scored one fewer goal than I have in the league.  Typically, they played 3-5-2 with wingbacks, central midfielders and two strikers.   Yet to play me, they went to a 5-4-1 with dual DMs.  Winning that game would have put them in the top four, a big deal for a team that hasn't made the Champions League since the Premier League started. 

I'd be fine with that sort of thing against a bad team, or even maybe a good team in bad form in adverse circumstances.  But it's weird as heck when a good team in good form with a good attack that needs a win just doesn't try to get one.

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2 hours ago, Novem9 said:

Wait.. Its my team score this goal :D 

as I can see all my players stayed exactly by keeping formation, so I have no idea why white-blue players stayed like they did + I always using default throws so its 100% AI issue

Throw in settings is only used for Long Throws, if you don't use long throws a build in default one is used and it makes me mad as it put my Striker close to the thrower, I want him far away ready to receive a pass after the throw in grrr.

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6 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Yes games like this happen IRL but they are notable because they are so rare. Newcastle v Man City or Bournemouth v Man City spring to mind. In most football matches IRL most teams at least attempt to win the matches. Where as in FM most sides just attempt to not get beaten too badly. The bottom 6 in the league are averaging 0.2-05 goals per game. I'm not even averaging 2 and I've scored the most in the league. 

I agree, the more extreme Ends of the AI tactics have Always more suited mismatches such as Spain-Faroes say. But on competitive Levels, there's hardly a comparison. According to SI, all that was adressed some though, and the AI wouldn't Play that readily defensive that often. 

7 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

This match engine is doing my head in. Now 74 shots since I last scored a goal.


Watch out that you're not doing a full De Boer. His Palace side didn't score at all in the first 90 shots two Seasons ago in total until they did. At which Point de Boer was no more at Palace. :D (Actually open Play shots too rather than exclusively from the set piece a la FM ;);););) )

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On 11/12/2019 at 14:08, mutwale said:

The average ratings seems broken after the latest update? Only my players involved in a goal, can get an average rating over 7, are there others having that experience?

 

My team seems fine. I moved Messi to MC to adjust to possible aging issues for him and he can score 9.0+ just from key passes without any assist or goals.

 

I did notice that sometimes one MC will do well and the other MC will mostly idle like the games calculation keeps favoring one player to do all the good stuff, Messi can really "steal" the show from both Arthur and De Jong, but if Messi is rested those players is the teams top performers (Thought it can be a repeat of one getting all the points.) Messi is fighting the decline, but he is rated lower than both Arthur and De Jong and the AI wouldn't play him anymore over picking those players. (Messi is neutral in MC and due to my Board buying Mo Salah even the AI knows to play him as MC as he can't compete with Salah anymore.)

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2 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Watch out that you're not doing a full De Boer. His Palace side didn't score at all in the first 90 shots two Seasons ago in total until they did. At which Point de Boer was no more at Palace. :D (Actually open Play shots too rather than exclusively from the set piece a la FM ;);););) )

Up to 84 now. Kane not scored in 10 hours. Daniel Levy is hovering over the red button.

Edited by Tiger666
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Any chance about a new ME update before the holidays? Gonna have some free time, but the ME right now seems so boring to me, no variety of goals, lack of ground trough balls, mentally challenged defenders, 1on1s etc. Just can't get myself to play the game as I did some versions before. 

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Fundamentally a high DL does not need to be punished - nothing else but Fouls and bad Business Practices need to be punished!

A high DL is a decision made based on your Players, your Playstyle and the oposing Players, Playstyle you encounter and it is only exploitable if you use the wrong Players for it be it they can not physically or mentally handle it as in being far to slow, have no stamina, cant ever win a challenge or have bad positioning, decisonmaking, low situational awareness etc.

As long you use the right Players the right way the distance to the Goal is a big one and the attackers probably be few...

Edited by Etebaer
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3 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Sure.  I just think they park the bus too often.  My flat back 5, 2 DM screenshot came against a team that was at the time about 10 points behind me in the league.  It was a home game for them.  They were 5th in the league, had won 6 of 8 games, scoring 3 or more goals in four of those games; they've only scored one fewer goal than I have in the league.  Typically, they played 3-5-2 with wingbacks, central midfielders and two strikers.   Yet to play me, they went to a 5-4-1 with dual DMs.  Winning that game would have put them in the top four, a big deal for a team that hasn't made the Champions League since the Premier League started. 

I'd be fine with that sort of thing against a bad team, or even maybe a good team in bad form in adverse circumstances.  But it's weird as heck when a good team in good form with a good attack that needs a win just doesn't try to get one.

Strange AI indeed. I would copy this post and post pkm into bugs forum in your place. Did they at least try with attacking tactics later on?

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52 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Strange AI indeed. I would copy this post and post pkm into bugs forum in your place. Did they at least try with attacking tactics later on?

Do you mean later in the game, or later in the season?

Later in the game, no - they kept their 5-2-2-1 all game.  They played 3-5-2 in every game for the rest of the season and finished as the 5th highest scorers, four goals behind me. 

Edited by Sunstrikuuu
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28 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Do you mean later in the game, or later in the season?

Later in the game, no - they kept their 5-2-2-1 all game.  They played 3-5-2 in every game for the rest of the season and finished as the 5th highest scorers, four goals behind me. 

That said, any Formation can be playing quite attacking football. It depends on the roles and duties chosen by the AI therein at any Point of the match.

Stuff like that is typically the switching of an AI to one of its other prefered formations. They're edited into the db for each AI. On Occasion, it can be even a research error at fault, such as when very bottom heavy formations may be accidentally edited as "prefered attacking formations" for an AI man, or vice versa. I don't see any formation as inherently parking the bus as such. Give that 5-2-2-1 attacking wingbacks and a couple Forward pushing central mids, and it will be trying to be all over an opposition once the ball is won.

What SI have argued to be out of the game anyways was the extreme duty allocations too readily taken in prior releases. Stuff like BOTH wide backs being on a defend duty, the CBs, plus at least one centre mid… which would be basically half a team+ mostly sticking behind the ball even in possession, like Napoli AI in this vintage FM15 Clip (first sequence of Play when the scoreline was still 0-0 and the AI "pleased" with the result). Upon winning the ball back, there is no way for Barcelona to play a quick transition, as everybody has stayed back.
 

 

May be worth investigating though...

Edited by Svenc
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4 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Obviously they played with defensive formation, which usually also means defensive tactics.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was trying to "park the bus" as such. Parking bus AI has had tons of Players on a defend Duty, generally dropped Deep immediately and also kept the pitch small and compact in Possession as a means of risk reducing.


May be worth an upload in the bug sections to take a look!

Edited by Svenc
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13 minutes ago, Svenc said:

That said, any Formation can be playing quite attacking football. It depends on the roles and duties chosen by the AI therein at any Point of the match.

Absolutely true.  In this case, however, they had six shots.  Three were from at least 35 yards (and two of those were DFKs), one was a header direct from a long throw and one was from a corner.  Only one shot came from any sort of attacking move - a long counterattacking pass over my defense for a striker to run onto.  Their average position even with the ball (counting subs) had two players in the penalty area, two on the edge of the penalty area and eight others inside their own half.  As a team they had a 63% pass completion rate. 

I suppose it is possible to play attacking football with a flat back five, two DMs and one forward - that's not what happened here, though.

Edited by Sunstrikuuu
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6 minutes ago, ShuichiAkai said:

unfortunately seems that SI hasn't testers anymore, every year the game is unplayable from launch to january/february and they use us to test the game and try to fix bugs, I hope things will change in the future

Despite my problems with AI defensive play and chance creation and stuff, it's still way better than last year's game was at launch IMO.

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well my banned period on here has gone, and i tried to start a new season in the prem again this few days, first game of the season versus Everton.

Conceded 6 CCC which is 5 long ball over the top and 4 of them is Sigurdsson with 10 acceleration runs past my defenders just to put it wide :lol:

 And 1 of them is Richarlison misses, does the ME team see the game how many over the top balls do a team usually concede:lol:

I immediately shut down my game after, it has no realism at all :thup:

By the way, I play with anchor man, and deep back line and balanced mentality 

Edited by robinthebest
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