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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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10 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Looks suspect, but what was the context, can you remember? If this is just after a corner, then you can maybe understand it if they have been zonal marking, but if this was just from the green team on a normal attack, that clearly shouldn't be happening. 

A still image doesn't really tell that much, the classic example below...

Image result for maradona v belgium

 

FM20 with ME from the age of Diego Maradona? Bad referring mate. No one defends in that way in this age of football.

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4 minutes ago, Statsarefacts said:

Just hit 150 hours in FM20 and have enjoyed every minute of it!

I am currently in Season Two with Brentford. I would like to thank everybody involved who has helped make this game the legend it is. I have finally found a side that I can blend into what sort of squad I like. The ethics being on the squad rather than individuals as Brentford operate a Moneyball approach which I think is more realistic. Both the first team and the U23's have been joined by a well funded youth policy for the future with largely low budget high determination young players being brought in. My only issue is I have no problem selling players at inflated prices but I do like to develop players rather than buy them.

Been looking for someone taking this approach specifically in the championship.. would love to see how you have got on with first season transfers etc.. 

 

If you feel like sharing there is always https://community.sigames.com/forum/22-good-player-team-guide/

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I'm about a season in now and I'm enjoying most of it. I do like the playing time progression for players and the ease of monitoring players moods/happiness on the squad screen. I haven't had much of an issue with the match engine as some people seem to have had. It's not perfect, but it must be near impossible to get a very realistic engine. The game moves much more quickly and smoothly than in the past for me, so that's great. 

One little nitpick I would have though would be some of the choices regarding the interface. The youth squads have been moved into the Development Centre tab, so it requires a bit of unnecessary clicking to get there. I tend to spend quite a bit of time interacting with those squads, so it felt as though last year's layout, where there are individual tabs on the side for each squad was much faster and easier. It was also very easy to choose first team players to give a run out in the reserves. It feels as though the new interface has complicated the system a little bit. As with all things, probably just takes some getting used to.  

All in all though, good job to all the folks on SI, and the mods on here dealing with the carry on in this thread over the last month! :idiot::lol:

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31 minutes ago, Cadoni said:

FM20 with ME from the age of Diego Maradona? Bad referring mate. No one defends in that way in this age of football.

Not the point I was making, but carry on...

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7 minutes ago, johnnycnandy said:

The youth squads have been moved into the Development Centre tab, so it requires a bit of unnecessary clicking to get there.

A couple of tips for this. If you take over any aspect of their training, the icons will appear again down the left. 

If you don't want to do that, just right click on the development tab, and you can quickly access the squads from the submenu that opens. Saves going through different screens. 

9 minutes ago, johnnycnandy said:

It was also very easy to choose first team players to give a run out in the reserves. It feels as though the new interface has complicated the system a little bit

That has been an horrendous addition to the game. It's disappointingly tedious. They did improve it slightly in the last update where you can now choose multiple players at once, but it's nowhere near as intuitive as it was. It's an example of changing something that never needed to be changed, and making it worse. 

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1 minute ago, Soverntear said:

Was having a lot of fun and got super in to the game. then got a bug which fires me for wage budget and haven't been able to play since. 

Details? what was the bug? whats the point commenting at all without any detail?

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7 hours ago, pats said:

After playing 15-20 more matches, I also feel that the long passes are a bit too accurate and the defence reaction time to these long balls also looks a bit low. Only slight tweak is required in both these areas imo. Nothing too drastic.

This. It's quite clear the reason why the devs are so reluctant to buff one-on-ones is because defenders reaction times to balls over the top is consistently slow. I'm not even playing with a high line gegenpress.

 

This is the only problem I have with the game as everything else works really well now.

 

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I have 1 big issue and that is that my "way too good for the league" defenders just stand there like idiots 4 times per game because a ball flies over their head. It's a game breaking bug for me, If I put 1, 2 or 3 DCs there, it doesn't matter they still stand still for a second before they react and then it is already too late..

Edited by misterblort
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1 minute ago, misterblort said:

I have 1 big issue and that is that my "way too good for the league" defenders just stand there like idiots 4 times per game because a ball flies over their head. It's a game breaking bug for me, If I put 1, 2 or 3 DCs there, it doesn't matter they still stand still for a second before they react and then it is already too late..

I had a bit of a moan about this a few pages ago so I understand your frustration. However, whilst I think there is room for improvement, I've had some luck shifting to a standard defensive line, choosing a standard size pitch dimension at home and putting a full back on defend. It still isn't perfect, but seems to have helped a little. 

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balls over the top need to be sorted out asap. Success rate should be 1/3 or a 1/4 of what it is. I dont think this will effect scores that much as despite appearing to create multiple opportunities they are almost all missed!  That said once fixed when a striker does get 1 on 1 he should score 1 out of 2 not 1 out of 10!  Passing near the goal is also still terrible 

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

This was just posted in the tactics forum, btw :

 

 

Lovely goal with good buildup, short passing, a good pass forward and a 1 v 1 finish all in one.

I could post plenty of lovely goals from the 1 in 10 one on ones that are converted... The issue is how many through balls get past the defense and then how many are missed. Its not a tactical issue. If i create 10 clear cut chances per match and score 0-2 of them  whilst also having 20 other shots its clear too many chances are being created especially considering opposition often manage 10-20 shots  making the combined total of shots 40-50!  I would post pkms but about 100 other users have so doubt the team need any further evidence! 

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Just now, hh123 said:

I could post plenty of lovely goals from the 1 in 10 one on ones that are converted... The issue is how many through balls get past the defense and then how many are missed. Its not a tactical issue. If i create 10 clear cut chances per match and score 0-2 of them  whilst also having 20 other shots its clear too many chances are being created especially considering opposition often manage 10-20 shots  making the combined total of shots 40-50!  I would post pkms but about 100 other users have so doubt the team need any further evidence! 

The number of 1 v 1s and their low conversion rate is a known issue.

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its taking a rather long time to fix :) I normally wouldn't care so much but just had a double hernia op, off work,  cant do anything physical and even computer game wise FM is about the only game I can play as its a slow play!  For now iv decided to pause my forth season until a fix comes out! 

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Just now, hh123 said:

its taking a rather long time to fix :) I normally wouldn't care so much but just had a double hernia op, off work,  cant do anything physical and even computer game wise FM is about the only game I can play as its a slow play!  For now iv decided to pause my forth season until a fix comes out! 

I haven't stopped playing. We don't know when the next update is out and it's not normally announced beforehand anyway, so I'm carrying on and enjoying my save regardless of current issues.

My players are missing more 1 v 1s than they should, but they still convert them. 

I managed to get my team promoted playing a fairly high line and it still wasn't much of an issue. Now in the higher league, I'm a bit more cautious, so playing a bit deeper, but still not suffering. I'm not saying they don't happen, but it's a problem for both teams and I'm not consistently caught out as I've set my team up well enough.

Tactical improvements won't necessarily make issues disappear, but it can help minimise issues in some cases. 

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

I haven't stopped playing. We don't know when the next update is out and it's not normally announced beforehand anyway, so I'm carrying on and enjoying my save regardless of current issues.

My players are missing more 1 v 1s than they should, but they still convert them. 

I managed to get my team promoted playing a fairly high line and it still wasn't much of an issue. Now in the higher league, I'm a bit more cautious, so playing a bit deeper, but still not suffering. I'm not saying they don't happen, but it's a problem for both teams and I'm not consistently caught out as I've set my team up well enough.

Tactical improvements won't necessarily make issues disappear, but it can help minimise issues in some cases. 

Its not effecting my results, 2 promotions in 3 seasons (if anything it makes it easier as the opposition blow just as many chances and my mediocre 3 out of 5 star goalkeeper keeps 90% of shots out!) . But it takes away a lot of the enjoyment when you see chances that in previous versions would be converted 4/5 times and now are 1/10. it also makes games go on much longer as so many chances are created per game. I play with extensive highlights and with 30-50 shots on goal a game that is rather a lot of highlights. 

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13 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Looks suspect, but what was the context, can you remember? If this is just after a corner, then you can maybe understand it if they have been zonal marking, but if this was just from the green team on a normal attack, that clearly shouldn't be happening. 

Normal attack, cross coming in from right wing.

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Players are also extremely selfish in the final third, especially when they are dribbling in North-South direction - they ignore simple passing opportunities to their teammates who are in better position to score. Instead they just continue dribbling until they shoot. Those short through balls are missing from the game at the moment.

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

This was just posted in the tactics forum, btw :

 

 

Lovely goal with good buildup, short passing, a good pass forward and a 1 v 1 finish all in one.

Lovely goal but if i'm being critical, doesn't the way midfielders receive the ball highlight a bit of an issue? None receive the ball on the half-turn and face forwards like pretty much all top midfielders IRL do as a matter of course; instead a few take a touch and turn to face away from goal. Perhaps this is why there's a certain lack of creativity in the final third?

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17 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

 if i'm being critical, doesn't the way midfielders receive the ball highlight a bit of an issue? None receive the ball on the half-turn and face forwards like pretty much all top midfielders IRL do as a matter of course; instead a few take a touch and turn to face away from goal. Perhaps this is why there's a certain lack of creativity in the final third?

Incredibly harsh. It's animated stick figures, not real people at the end of the day, and the animations sometimes don't represent the whole story. The important thing here is how the match engine is accurately representing the style of football the player wants from his team, and should be applauded. Graphical animations will improve over time. 

We need more of this on here. 

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21 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

Lovely goal but if i'm being critical, doesn't the way midfielders receive the ball highlight a bit of an issue? None receive the ball on the half-turn and face forwards like pretty much all top midfielders IRL do as a matter of course; instead a few take a touch and turn to face away from goal. Perhaps this is why there's a certain lack of creativity in the final third?

Great post. The issue with poor ball control and turning was very persistent in FM19 and I provided many examples from FM18 showing how it led to creative play in the final third. The boys from SI acknowledged the issue and would address it in FM20....

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1 hora atrás, HUNT3R disse:

The number of 1 v 1s and their low conversion rate is a known issue.

Nice. I'm one of the guys that defends this game, but I was starting to get a little disappointed because sometimes mods come here and defend things beyond reason. Now I know that they are really taking things seriously.

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Just now, fidelitywars said:

I appreciate that you're the ME's chief apologist 

I can guarantee you I have raised more bug reports this year than you have, but that's not important right now. 

1 minute ago, fidelitywars said:

but is there not anything worth highlighting in my post? Many users are reporting a lack of creativity in the final third; it doesn't seem much of a stretch to suggest that a possible factor in this is midfielders receiving the ball with their backs to goal.

Whilst that might possibly be the case, rushing to highlight this as a response to a video which shows the game in a really positive light smacks of moaning for moaning's sake. 

That's the key point being made here. 

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

The number of 1 v 1s and their low conversion rate is a known issue.

Are there any estimates how much they are off and which type? Pre-patch anything in massively space (forward ACTUALLY through on goal rather than hoarded by a pack of defenders), decent angles, no much defender nearby to pressure used to be converted at actually 50/50 rates, if not slightly higher. You could force those all match long with unrealistic tactics that have all players man mark the opposition CBs and a solitary FB acting as the last line of defense (1 man backline with no CBs). 

I think anybody interested in making this a realistic football sim should and does take this as serious as could (same as the conversion of any  chance type). Get something way off here, and all of Football DNA and strategies developed throughout the years don't at all apply anymore. :D OP Long shots = Deep block defending means suicide, etc. 

Edited by Svenc
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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

I can guarantee you I have raised more bug reports this year than you have, but that's not important right now. 

Whilst that might possibly be the case, rushing to highlight this as a response to a video which shows the game in a really positive light smacks of moaning for moaning's sake. 

That's the key point being made here. 

It's not for you to dictate what the key point may or may not be; I haven't enjoyed the ME in FM20 or FM19, largely owing to what I perceive to be dull football and a lack of creativity. From the clip shown above, looks like a possible explanation for this may be shown even within the context of the engine showing a pleasing team goal; a player may score the occasional wondergoal but it doesn't mean that criticism of him misplacing simple passes is invalid. There's little value in fawning over a goal and using it as evidence to completely dismiss those not enjoying the game or suggest that any complaints are rooted in tactical issues.

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2 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

I haven't enjoyed the ME in FM20 or FM19, largely owing to what I perceive to be dull football and a lack of creativity. From the clip shown above, looks like a possible explanation for this may be shown even within the context of the engine showing a pleasing team goal; a player may score the occasional wondergoal but it doesn't mean that criticism of him misplacing simple passes is invalid. There's little value in fawning over a goal and using it as evidence to completely dismiss those not enjoying the game or suggest that any complaints are rooted in tactical issues.

Sad to say it would appear you've now reached the stage with FM where many people now are, where your expectations far exceed the limitations of the game. Until that changes, you're unlikely to enjoy it anymore, which is a shame. 

3 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

It's not for you to dictate what the key point may or may not be;

It was my own point, so it kinda is. 

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Sad to say it would appear you've now reached the stage with FM where many people now are, where your expectations far exceed the limitations of the game. Until that changes, you're unlikely to enjoy it anymore, which is a shame. 

It was my own point, so it kinda is. 

I just want players to pass the ball forwards in the final third and for strikers to finish their chances. Hardly asking for the moon on a stick.

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3 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

I just want players to pass the ball forwards in the final third and for strikers to finish their chances. 

Changing the goalposts now I see. It was players receiving the ball facing the goal a minute ago. 

By the way, whisper it, players DO pass the ball forwards in the final third, and strikers DO finish their chances, and guess what? The clip we're discussing highlights this perfectly. The issue is around whether it should happen more often, but that's for another day. 

Also from your previous post...

15 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

but it doesn't mean that criticism of him misplacing simple passes is invalid.

Every player at every level is capable of misplacing simple passes, and although I can't possibly claim to have watched every single game ever, I'm pretty sure it happens in every match. Perhaps you don't see this watching Match of the Day. Constructive criticism and raising bugs are all things that help move the game forward, but to stop playing it because of wildly unrealistic expectations is only going to disadvantage you. Unlucky. 

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Changing the goalposts now I see. It was players receiving the ball facing the goal a minute ago. 

By the way, whisper it, players DO pass the ball forwards in the final third, and strikers DO finish their chances, and guess what? The clip we're discussing highlights this perfectly. The issue is around whether it should happen more often, but that's for another day. 

Also from your previous post...

Every player at every level is capable of misplacing simple passes, and although I can't possibly claim to have watched every single game ever, I'm pretty sure it happens in every match. Perhaps you don't see this watching Match of the Day. Constructive criticism and raising bugs are all things that help move the game forward, but to stop playing it because of wildly unrealistic expectations is only going to disadvantage you. Unlucky. 

My point was consistent from the start - I don't think there's enough creativity in the final third...maybe that's owing to the way midfielders receive possession, as shown in the clip. If players aren't facing forwards, they're less likely to pass forwards.

Snide dig about MOTD was a bit daft too, wasn't it? Not sure you grasped the initial analogy. Bless.

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10 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

With all due respect, I don't buy the limitations of the game part. The match engine in FM17 managed it.

Did it though? Look at the feedback thread for that game. Different issues, same gnashing of teeth. 

FM17 was my favourite version of the game up until this one, but I think this engine knocks it out the park. Key difference is you need to work harder at it, and that's a good thing IMO. 

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20 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Did it though? Look at the feedback thread for that game. Different issues, same gnashing of teeth. 

FM17 was my favourite version of the game up until this one, but I think this engine knocks it out the park. Key difference is you need to work harder at it, and that's a good thing IMO. 

aaaand we are back again at the point where you say that players not scoring from the dozens of chances tactics allow them to have is the user's fault

 

just sad...

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35 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

With all due respect, I don't buy the limitations of the game part. The match engine in FM17 managed it.

but come on, you surely can't expect the game "FOOTBALL Manager" to look like the game of "FOOTBALL" does?

that's just unrealistic mate!

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32 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Did it though? Look at the feedback thread for that game. Different issues, same gnashing of teeth. 

FM17 was my favourite version of the game up until this one, but I think this engine knocks it out the park. Key difference is you need to work harder at it, and that's a good thing IMO. 

Well this is perhaps not for this thread but I have no issue at all winning. I know how to set up tactically, It's Jan 1st in my save and I'm second in the league just behind City as Spurs. Winning isn't the issue. It's the football being served up that's the issue. So many shots, so many missed chances, so many long balls, not to mention my set piece instructions being bugged. I don't find it particularly entertaining to watch either.

Edited by Tiger666
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7 minutes ago, Glen_Runciter said:

aaaand we are back again at the point where you say that players not scoring from the dozens of chances tactics allow them to have is the user's fault

 

just sad...

I'd rather not get into a discussion with you about this again, as the mods will (rightly) curtail it. So I'll leave this final point. 

I've put over 500 hours into the game already (across both modes), have worked hard at creating a tactic and bringing in the right players, and I hardly see any of the issues posted about on here. (Yes, 1vs1 conversion rates should possibly be higher, but that's already being looked at)  - End result, I'm loving the game, and I've already had way over my money's worth on a game that's been officially out less than a month. 

You're calling the game broken and unplayable and are having a miserable time with it, which is fair enough, it's not for everyone. 

Who's the real winner here? 

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12 minutos atrás, Dagenham_Dave disse:

I'd rather not get into a discussion with you about this again, as the mods will (rightly) curtail it. So I'll leave this final point. 

I've put over 500 hours into the game already (across both modes), have worked hard at creating a tactic and bringing in the right players, and I hardly see any of the issues posted about on here. (Yes, 1vs1 conversion rates should possibly be higher, but that's already being looked at)  - End result, I'm loving the game, and I've already had way over my money's worth on a game that's been officially out less than a month. 

You're calling the game broken and unplayable and are having a miserable time with it, which is fair enough, it's not for everyone. 

Who's the real winner here? 

Dave, im more or less the same as you regarding the game, really enjoying it despite having a bit of that low conversion rate of clear cut chances as mentioned before. But do you think when SI release the next patch, it will negatively influence our current tactics and therefore kind of ruin our enjoyment of the game?

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1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I can guarantee you I have raised more bug reports this year than you have, but that's not important right now. 

Whilst that might possibly be the case, rushing to highlight this as a response to a video which shows the game in a really positive light smacks of moaning for moaning's sake. 

That's the key point being made here. 

his point was valid to raise in the context of the issue about lack of creativity in the engine. quite why you feel the need to jump on that which is a suggestion which may improve the game is bizarre. do you not want things improved or why would you jump on someone making then point he made above there about a significant shortfall of the match engine particularly this year and last year as well

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1 hour ago, fidelitywars said:

I just want players to pass the ball forwards in the final third and for strikers to finish their chances. Hardly asking for the moon on a stick.

This issue made me stop playing the demo, I can't stand it. It ruins all counter attacks, player will dribble down the line instead of playing simple pass forward, when two guys are wide open. Was this issue improved at least a little with new ME?

 

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Just now, Mitja said:

This issue made me stop playing the demo, I can't stand it. It ruins all counter attacks, player will dribble down the line instead of playing simple pass forward, when two guys are wide open. Was this issue improved at least a little with new ME?

 

In my experience, players will play forward passes more often. Counter-attacks are still broken though, because one-on-ones never go in. Wingers are still very selfish when at tight angles too, though slightly less so than before.

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1 minute ago, Sophos said:

In my experience, players will play forward passes more often. Counter-attacks are still broken though, because one-on-ones never go in. Wingers are still very selfish when at tight angles too, though slightly less so than before.

Wingers not crossing didn't bother me that much, I wouldn't say they never crossed for me. But passing forwards and into space, I don't know why but I can't stand it. But I believe people 1on1's must be painfull to watch. 

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2 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Wingers not crossing didn't bother me that much, I wouldn't say they never crossed for me. But passing forwards and into space, I don't know why but I can't stand it. But I believe people 1on1's must be painfull to watch. 

On the bright side, I never have to worry about the opposition scoring from them either.

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9 minutes ago, Sophos said:

In my experience, players will play forward passes more often. Counter-attacks are still broken though, because one-on-ones never go in. Wingers are still very selfish when at tight angles too, though slightly less so than before.

They do go in. It doesn't help to exaggerate that much. It's been acknowledged and I even posted that at the top of the page.

6 minutes ago, Sophos said:

It's been a problem for multiple instalments and keeps getting worse.

It's not. Factually, that's not close to correct.

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