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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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Just finished my first session on the new update and after 5 games have logged 8 clear 1-1 chances for my team.  Scored 5, inlcuding 3 in the one game, so make what you can of that with all the comments earlier in the thread.

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1 hour ago, Etebaer said:

I really dont know how one can defend anything ME this patch.

The amount of stopping loose balls for making opostion Players gaining Possession totally uneccessary is completely over the top - not a single ME Version was ever that bad regarding that.

Do you mean players standing still when the ball is in play? Like no one is going for it? I noticed that in all the games I’ve played so far, it’s a bit like when playing Fifa and your player doesn’t lock onto the ball.

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48 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Just finished my first session on the new update and after 5 games have logged 8 clear 1-1 chances for my team.  Scored 5, inlcuding 3 in the one game, so make what you can of that with all the comments earlier in the thread.

Lucky dice. Sample size:D

 

Oh, and as of Harry Kane, he's clearly an above average finisher. Likewise, he didn't bang them in on like every other match because he put them all away. But because during his best he had 5 scoring attempts per match (the average EPL Forward 2). This season his number has regressed from ~5 attempts per match average to  2.6, which is barely half of that, and so he couldn't possibly score as much as during his best Seasons. As argued, finishing it all off itself is a skill, but if you're competing with Kane, you may be Pretty good at what you are doing even if you're playing for Villa. And the lower leagues you go, the worse Opposition to beat would become also (including defenders).

Massively SPoiler: Buying better Forwards with higher finishing stats as to FM likewise has never been a fix for consistently finishing issues. It's About the type of chances and increasing their numbers.

Edited by Svenc

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Maybe- only 1 scored out of the next 5 chances, so that is 6 out of 11 on the new ME- I am not drawing any conclusions at all based on 8 or 9 games but it does go against some of the comments earlier about a total inability to score on 1-1

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Watched first half of Liverpool vs Everton yesterday and it was like watching FM20's current ME. :D

Liverpool's whole tactics was based around long balls over to top to the players running in behind, long accurate diagonals, in addition to their usual flooding the box via counter attacking with pace. I saw top defenders unable to deal with the long balls, static at times, making costly mistakes etc..

As for Tottenham vs Man United match, the difference in tactical cohesion was also clear to see. United were obviously motivated to prove Mourinho wrong and played well. Their passes were finding each other, They had defensive organisation and in short looked like they knew what they were doing. But they were also helped by Tottenham players' lack of understanding of each others' movement on the pitch defensively as well as in attack as per new tactics. It was very clear to see. I'm glad FM represents this well. i.e. If you change your tactics dramatically, your world beating team can also struggle sometimes.

 

Edited by pats
grammar

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3 hours ago, Sanel said:

Second clip that he posted is just a joke, this not even bug related just clearly tactics related. There is something wrong with either centre back or defensive midfielder instructions. Easy fix would be playing more compact and using offside-trap. 

b66db6cc7aeead44c7d5e5a3cd25ae9d.png

edf977a57cbeaa6eb6f2a56138cf6b39.png

I don't use any defensive or midfield instructions. The only PI I use is shoot less often on the full backs.

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

Edited by Tiger666

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27 minutes ago, pats said:

Liverpool's whole tactics was based around long balls over to top to the players running in behind, long accurate diagonals, in addition to their usual flooding the box via counter attacking with pace. I saw top defenders unable to deal with the long balls, static at times, making costly mistakes etc..

 

Liverpool (of all teams) being able to do something well doesn't mean Championship and League teams should be able to do it just as well, and TO teams like Liverpool.  Are you just being facetious now?  Your comment highlights the point other posters and I have made, it doesn't rebut it.

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If you're a Hibs fan who only goes to home games, you might as well get another hobby in February... :lol:

My bank manager is also not going to be pleased. 

image.thumb.png.364472a1393f96aff757bfc6cb3b6a28.png

Every year in FM, there's issues with fixtures. Surely it can't be that difficult to get right. 

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Can anyone tell me if you are suscribed/follow a league are you supposed to get all league match reports in your inbox like in older versions? i don't think I am getting them, Or it that now in news/social feed now? Talk about extensive/custom subscriptions, where the match reports box is ticked.

tnx

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16 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

 

Here you go, he looks like he's off in dreamland

@Jack Joyce whilst you're here, are these worth looking at?

What camera angle is that? How/where on earth did the stand structures come from? Looks magnificent, is this some imported skin? 

Regards

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7 hours ago, Glen_Runciter said:

Yes, it's completely unreasonable to expect they release a version with good AI.

What other game developer does that?

Some people... :/

Just because you don't think it is 'good' does not mean it isn't 'good'. 

Look at the reviews on Steam, overwhelmingly positive. Its like its only a select few who are tactically inept are saying the engine is 'broken'....

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I seem to keep getting players who suddenly get a negative PR icon and when I check the player he has a negative conversation with me, but the "conversation" seems to be all in the players mind and didn't involve me missing a news item or in some other way interact with the player.

 

If my staff somehow can have hidden disaster conversation with players, that the player then blames on me, that is idiotic, if a staff fails in a conversation at least *force* it up the totem pole so I can have a REAL conversation  that I then fail.

 

Same with IPR ones, that seems to keep saying I'm responsible for the conversation, while not being an international manager at all, but I'm not sure if those counts towards manager<->player relation issues, like the other hidden ones.

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4 hours ago, upthetoon said:

I totally agree and this has been the case for a very long time. 

Its a great ME, but I don't see any difference between LLM play and high level elite play. If you have players in your team with much better stats than the opponent you have higher chances to win. 

But I just don't see any impact of having low stats on the pitch. They all seem to be doing the same thing. 

Players in LLM also ping balls across the pitch like Modric. Everything just plays out the same on the pitch. 

I don't see what actually player stats does in on the pitch anymore in this ME, aside from higher win probability. 

Yeah, agree with this; seems that the overall current ability of your team dictates results to a large extent, with little or no attention to specific player attributes/styles. High quality, technical players (playmakers/strikers) seem to do little in the final third and full-backs are a far more potent attacking force - seems that the overall result is based on overall team quality but not the style of play or the source of your goals. Sadly been the case for a while but seems so much more pronounced in the last 2 FMs; technical attributes (and others such as composure/decisions) are largely meaningless and as such, scores of users complain on forums like these that their teams aren't playing technical football... The engine just doens't seem able to represent this approach and i'm fast losing faith that any 'tweak' to it will do go any way towards resolution. Hoping that a complete re-write is scheduled for FM21.

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I've got messi as my DLF and he scores 8/10 1 on ones for me. As he should.

 

Pretty annoyed with VAR calling goals offside when they really arent. Went thru this replay a dozen times in slow mo and my player was never offside, but VAR disallowed it. Annoying.

offside.png

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Any news on demo update? Was disappointed with the previous version and holding off buying the game. Waiting for the demo update to make up my mind.

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6 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

Yeah, agree with this; seems that the overall current ability of your team dictates results to a large extent, with little or no attention to specific player attributes/styles. High quality, technical players (playmakers/strikers) seem to do little in the final third and full-backs are a far more potent attacking force - seems that the overall result is based on overall team quality but not the style of play or the source of your goals. Sadly been the case for a while but seems so much more pronounced in the last 2 FMs; technical attributes (and others such as composure/decisions) are largely meaningless and as such, scores of users complain on forums like these that their teams aren't playing technical football... The engine just doens't seem able to represent this approach and i'm fast losing faith that any 'tweak' to it will do go any way towards resolution. Hoping that a complete re-write is scheduled for FM21.

Exactly. 

Its buying players with high attributes to only increase your teams collective current ability to dictate results in your favor. 

Having 2 save games, 1 LLM and 1 elite team but what goes on in the pitch is the same. 

What does attribute like first touch or technique suppose to mean? A Sunday league player with first touch 7 and elite player with 17 work the same way in the ME. There's no sequence of play lost due to a poor touch. Long shot 5 or long shot 15 makes no difference. If the ME decides a long shot needs to go in, it goes in all the same. 

What happens in a Sunday league pub match and champions league final is basically the same on the pitch. 

The thing is this is not a problem for 'fix'ing. I think the only way FM can seriously start seeing difference in LLM football and elite football is with a completely new state of the art engine. 

But as it is, I can enjoy the ME within this flaw. 

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image.thumb.png.5f8c4ede020935738192f388e0164228.pngimage.thumb.png.4c89d2df9a9755f18476e7e7b19c6641.png

The clear cut chances for me and the opposition in the last 10 matches.

I've got a record of won 7 lost 3, scoring 19 and conceding 10. The 3 losses coming against really big teams in the Asian Champions league. I'd say other than in the champions league games every clear cut chance the AI teams have had are identical. Bit of head tennis in midfield then a pin point through ball from either a fullback or centre-back as my defenders duck under the ball, jump under the ball or stand there and watch it float past them never reacting, which is fine cos the striker won't score anyway.

I've given up even trying to make my side defensively sound and attackingly potent in-game stats wise as they are meaningless. Far better to try and work opportunities for a cutback to an onrushing midfielder or fullback. Strikers finishing is practically nerfed to zero at this level.

That's why this ME is for me far worse than the prior one. In that one I felt I had to work for my chances but if and when they came they were finished at a realistic rate and that went for the AI too. Now who cares if the opposition have had 4 one on one's/great chances they'll maybe score 1 in 10 of them. Plus clear cut chances seem really easy to create. Just draw in the opposition and hoof the ball over the top, but then you just miss them too so again whats the point.

For me I'd rather wind back to the last version. It was far more balanced and realistic. If I had the option I'd wind back the update because this ME is a frustrating mess as far as I've experienced.

 

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1 hour ago, Rakosi said:

Liverpool (of all teams) being able to do something well doesn't mean Championship and League teams should be able to do it just as well, and TO teams like Liverpool.  Are you just being facetious now?  Your comment highlights the point other posters and I have made, it doesn't rebut it.

I'm neither trying to be anything nor trying to rebut anyone's point. I also never said other teams should be able to do it. I was just making my own point. I didn't even read any of your post.

A fact is a fact though.

Edited by pats

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8 hours ago, SeaCarrot said:

Did you guys do something to the framerate? I now sit at 10fps in the general home/inbox wherever screens. Which makes my Gsync monitor flicker like mad. Didn't do this prepatch. :/ Had this issue last year too.

 

Its like its power saving, as my FPS goes back up to like 150 when i hit continue, then drops to 10 again when static. Its screwing my display. Annoying. Can I make it run 100% all the time?

Had the same issue, even my mouse was laggy. Fixed it by forcing vsync and few other things in Nvidia panel. 

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3 minutes ago, Iwabik said:

Had the same issue, even my mouse was laggy. Fixed it by forcing vsync and few other things in Nvidia panel. 

Thanks that sorted it. Weird issue!

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Still toying with the demo 20.1.4. Is it awaiting the update? Cheers

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For each match I seem to need to set my OIs when I have them set already at position level.

Am I missing something as for FM19 if the OIs were set for positions then these would automatically be applied to each opponent 

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1 hour ago, ChrisCo said:

Just because you don't think it is 'good' does not mean it isn't 'good'. 

Look at the reviews on Steam, overwhelmingly positive. Its like its only a select few who are tactically inept are saying the engine is 'broken'....

you are obviously extremely biased, I can't take anything coming from you seriously

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1 hour ago, ChrisCo said:

Just because you don't think it is 'good' does not mean it isn't 'good'. 

Look at the reviews on Steam, overwhelmingly positive. Its like its only a select few who are tactically inept are saying the engine is 'broken'....

 

I won the league and Champions League with Arsenal and I'm not enjoying it too much. It's a slight improvement on before but now there's too many balls ott and average ratings seem a bit ****.

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6 minutes ago, Fritz13 said:

For each match I seem to need to set my OIs when I have them set already at position level.

Am I missing something as for FM19 if the OIs were set for positions then these would automatically be applied to each opponent 

We're trying to figure what the actuality of it is here.

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8 hours ago, Saperlipopette said:

Also, it's the must UNFAIR FM I've ever played. Dominating is useless, creating chances is useless, it depends on luck

Totally agree. My tactic was ok before patch but after it things got insane. I was playing high intensity, attacking football so I expected to be a bit vulnerable at the back but all I was seeing was hoofball. And it works both ways, my team was also a hoofing machine and each game I kept seeing at least few hoofs ending in one on ones that were, obviously, missed. And I don't expect any of my two really good strikers to score every chance but at least one in six would be nice. But nope, despite both teams having few good chances with forwards running free or free-ish on goal, scoring is almost only possible through crosses, set pieces or longshots.*

 

I accept that it can be less noticeable with more balanced tactical styles and maybe tactics creating fewer one on ones might see realistic conversion rate but I don't like being punished for creating chances. Balancing the scorelines by making it harder to score when creating more is just wrong for me. Currently, for me, it seems like high number of quality chances leads only to increase in frustration instead of increase in number of scored goals. And I know my tactic is far, far from perfect and pretty extreme, but I don't think that ignoring high balls or strikers being useless is simply because "tactic bad". 

 

*- I'm not saying it's impossible to play proper football, I saw many beautiful goals during 8 seasons I have played so far since beta. 

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18 minutes ago, Glen_Runciter said:

you are obviously extremely biased, I can't take anything coming from you seriously

Yes, it must be me and the 4000+ Steam reviewers who have the skewed opinion. 

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19 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

 

Here you go, he looks like he's off in dreamland

@Jack Joyce whilst you're here, are these worth looking at?

Which camera angle option is this?

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Enough of the childish digs. We’ve already had to hand out a number of restrictions and bans, and we’ll have to keep doing it if people aren’t getting the message. 

 

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I still think this ME has the potential to be the best ever, I just really think it need some tweaks.

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4 minutes ago, stevemc said:

Which camera angle option is this?

I had to to a manual 2D highlight save, you can't have 2D in the match highlight replays for some bizarre reason   

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1 minute ago, hazzabish said:

Is there anything about the game you dislike?

Fair question.

In terms of feedback for the latest patch I think the ME is very good, however it obviously isn't perfect.

- Perhaps a touch too many goals from indirect free kicks, I have scored quite a few despite putting minimal thought into them.

- Again perhaps penalties are being missed too often

Off the top of my head, however I don't agree with any of this hyperbole that the game is 'broken'.

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Just conceded this goal-

Screenshot 1:

The ball is in the air. The defender is under no pressure. The striker is not on his shoulders.

image.thumb.png.23ac1c8b4b5cc67335512cc2dbadf041.png

 

Screenshot 2:

The defender completely misjudges the flight of the ball. The ball sails over his head. Is he uncertain whether to mark the striker or go for the ball? Is it a reaction time bug?

image.thumb.png.be45f87c728963a298ce767d19157c78.png

 

Screenshot 3:

The striker is 1 on 1 and scores.

image.thumb.png.ed9bcce023fd73b36d6ecc6e6ce54b15.png

 

 

 

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I had a lot of criticism about  the ME in 20.1

But I think right now the ME is good, only few very little tweaks (balls over  the top) and overall it will be the best ME

 

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6 minutes ago, pats said:

Just conceded this goal-

Screenshot 1:

The ball is in the air. The defender is under no pressure. The striker is not on his shoulders.

image.thumb.png.23ac1c8b4b5cc67335512cc2dbadf041.png

 

Screenshot 2:

The defender completely misjudges the flight of the ball. The ball sails over his head. Is he uncertain whether to mark the striker or go for the ball? Is it a reaction time bug?

image.thumb.png.be45f87c728963a298ce767d19157c78.png

 

Screenshot 3:

The striker is 1 on 1 and scores.

image.thumb.png.ed9bcce023fd73b36d6ecc6e6ce54b15.png

 

 

 

That's every game I've played since the update. Defenders seem to be unable to react correctly to ball over the top. It's like they have three options: track the ball and the runner, run towards running player or just do absolutely nothing and only react after attacker received the ball. They never choose option one.

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6 minutes ago, pats said:

Just conceded this goal-

Screenshot 1:

The ball is in the air. The defender is under no pressure. The striker is not on his shoulders.

image.thumb.png.23ac1c8b4b5cc67335512cc2dbadf041.png

 

Screenshot 2:

The defender completely misjudges the flight of the ball. The ball sails over his head. Is he uncertain whether to mark the striker or go for the ball? Is it a reaction time bug?

image.thumb.png.be45f87c728963a298ce767d19157c78.png

 

Screenshot 3:

The striker is 1 on 1 and scores.

image.thumb.png.ed9bcce023fd73b36d6ecc6e6ce54b15.png

 

 

 

I feel your pain. It's happened to me before and it annoys me when it happens. However (and without being able to view the goal you conceded), the defender just messed it up, just like they sometimes do in real life. You could say it's a reaction bug - or you could say he'd having a mare and needs to be brought off.

IMHO players sometimes doing inexplicable things in the game and it makes it more interesting. Steve Gerrard's slip - if that happened in FM, the whiners on here would say "... the game is broken, one of the world's best midfielders just wouldn't do that..."

Football IRL is littered with individual mistakes, so why not FM? I've just found this on the Youtube. There's having a bad day and there's this: 
 

 

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12 minutes ago, Lempicka said:

I feel your pain. It's happened to me before and it annoys me when it happens. However (and without being able to view the goal you conceded), the defender just messed it up, just like they sometimes do in real life. You could say it's a reaction bug - or you could say he'd having a mare and needs to be brought off.

IMHO players sometimes doing inexplicable things in the game and it makes it more interesting. Steve Gerrard's slip - if that happened in FM, the whiners on here would say "... the game is broken, one of the world's best midfielders just wouldn't do that..."

Football IRL is littered with individual mistakes, so why not FM? I've just found this on the Youtube. There's having a bad day and there's this: 
 

 

I agree it can happen but it's happening far too frequently according to feedbacks. Some are seeing it every match, so I decided to check this out myself. Didn't have to work hard. Happened in the first match I played. I was also watching this match on full and there were several long ball attempts from the opposition which were taken care of by my defense so I don't know what's causing this.

Edited by pats

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7 hours ago, Sanel said:

Second clip that he posted is just a joke, this not even bug related just clearly tactics related. There is something wrong with either centre back or defensive midfielder instructions. Easy fix would be playing more compact and using offside-trap. 

b66db6cc7aeead44c7d5e5a3cd25ae9d.png

edf977a57cbeaa6eb6f2a56138cf6b39.png

There is no reason for any CB to move infront of the defensive line unless someone was there which isn't, his vids were perfectly reasonable to show the long ball. Yes having a compact defensive line and offisde trap COULD possibly work but it hasn't in general according to a few people in this thread and other ones. People have even said they've lowered it below standard and still occurs, that's a bug for sure regardless of situations. Seen it before and now seeing it again. Hopefully the SI fix it asap as it's been a common bug but the ME is complicated so it may take more time. 

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I had no problems with 1on1's on 20.1.4, there weren't too many and scoring rates were really good. Can this issue be tactical?

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3 hours ago, ChrisCo said:

Just because you don't think it is 'good' does not mean it isn't 'good'. 

Look at the reviews on Steam, overwhelmingly positive. Its like its only a select few who are tactically inept are saying the engine is 'broken'....

You could not be more wrong I am in that bracket however I have been highly successful result wise just don't enjoy the responsiveness of the ME or the dull football ie the way tactical styles are represented visually. I'd also wager a lot of those 880 reviewers have equal ability and experience as you.

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4 hours ago, FrazT said:

Maybe- only 1 scored out of the next 5 chances, so that is 6 out of 11 on the new ME- I am not drawing any conclusions at all based on 8 or 9 games but it does go against some of the comments earlier about a total inability to score on 1-1

I think it may have been in context of haing "too many 1v1's" quite often rather than the fair few we see in games. E.g. passing through the middle or around the team rather than the opposite of the long ball over the top creating these 1v1. Im not saying every 1v1 is done by a long ball but it seems people are picking up on them far too often both being bungs. Maybe the conversion rate is somewhat realistic due to not many 1v1 happening therefore not scoring them (in general) the ME see's it being okay as its counteracting- could be completely wrong on that last bit but I do think the 1v1's myself from experince on demo and on here that it happens too often be that a usual long ball or a channel ball bypassing the midfield which doesn't happen often against defensive or low block teams e.g. prem. 

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7 minutes ago, Mitja said:

I had no problems with 1on1's on 20.1.4, there weren't too many and scoring rates were really good. Can this issue be tactical?

It was the same here.
My suspicion is that it is one of, or a combination of tactics, impatience, misconceptions and/or actual issues.

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57 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I had to to a manual 2D highlight save, you can't have 2D in the match highlight replays for some bizarre reason   

So are you saying this view is only available in replays and not actual matchplay? If so what a shame, looks great.

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4 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

I don't use any defensive or midfield instructions. The only PI I use is shoot less often on the full backs.

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

Forget the long balls, one on ones and whatever for a sec. How is that tactic ever going to work without a DPM anyways? Also no instructions about passing whatsoever. "Yeah let me choose a formation and put some random players in, hope it will work!"

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30 minutes ago, Lempicka said:

IMHO players sometimes doing inexplicable things in the game and it makes it more interesting. Steve Gerrard's slip - if that happened in FM, the whiners on here would say "... the game is broken, one of the world's best midfielders just wouldn't do that..."

Football IRL is littered with individual mistakes, so why not FM?

Nobody here is arguing that players making mistakes once in a while is wrong. Mistakes are good, they add realism to the game. But when misjudging/not reacting to long balls happens 6 times per game by top level defenders it surely isn't just "player made mistake" case. 

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3 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Forget the long balls, one on ones and whatever for a sec. How is that tactic ever going to work without a DPM anyways? Also no instructions about passing whatsoever. "Yeah let me choose a formation and put some random players in, hope it will work!"

You don't need instructions to tell them how to pass. One of the biggest mistakes people make is having far too many instructions.

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4 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Forget the long balls, one on ones and whatever for a sec. How is that tactic ever going to work without a DPM anyways? Also no instructions about passing whatsoever. "Yeah let me choose a formation and put some random players in, hope it will work!"

You don't need a DPM, that tactic is "fine" also passing is on standard as everything else is so it doesn't show up much like spurs do so irl short and direct. It may or may not work but the roles are fine too, complete balance- attacking right side with a winger and defensive side to cover the IF. Balanced and having a standard LOE/DL should counteract the long balls that happened in theory. 

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