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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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23 minutes ago, Dennis_Ajax said:

The amount of defensive errors since the last patch is really, really, annoying. Completely unrealistic football and the state of the match engine is really bad. I uninstalled the game, I have no trust in this dev team anymore. Playing this since CM01 but enough is enough. The game has become too complex for the devs, I think they should really restructure the whole engine to make things less complex for them self because it is clear they also don't have a clue how to fix certain things in the ME.

How on earth can you even begin to theorise this? 

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Just now, Svenc said:

That's good stuff! :)Mentality is but a part of it though. I never thought their Duty allocation was all that realistic on the more defense Ends (except for really extreme match Scenarios). How often do you personally see sides sitting their entire backline behind the ball (defend Duty for all of them), plus a couple centre mids? Of Course they would struggle to create an Opening from Play. However, the AI likely upon having Chosen a mentality goes with roughly what's recommended. You can Play totally attacking Football even on the defensive/counter mentality, after all, as how many numbers are pushing up ultimately is a Thing of the roles/duties (and the Forward movement encouragements). 

The duty choices for AI managers is directly linked to the mentalities so it has a big knock-on effect. But overall the duty choices are improved in FM20 and definitely not seeing full back 4s with all defend duties often at all.

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5 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Defenetely not reaction from PL player. Interestingly first he wanted to reach striker which would be the best decision but after that, yeah. It could count as poor representation if it's one off.

I'll have another look at the game where Shaw's scores two & upload them if needed, won't do any harm

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I’d just like to say the patch seems great to me. Although I never had any real complaints previously. I think it’s the best ME of any FM game. The guys who worked hard on this have done a really solid job this year. I’m really enjoying playing the game a lot. 

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46 minutes ago, Dennis_Ajax said:

The amount of defensive errors since the last patch is really, really, annoying. Completely unrealistic football and the state of the match engine is really bad. I uninstalled the game, I have no trust in this dev team anymore. Playing this since CM01 but enough is enough. The game has become too complex for the devs, I think they should really restructure the whole engine to make things less complex for them self because it is clear they also don't have a clue how to fix certain things in the ME.

I think the game is less complex and is being dumbed down to be more accessible. If you stick with the base tactics it seems easier than doing something different and unique. Players in certain positions are geared towards doing the same actions no matter what instructions you give them or what type of stats or skills they have 

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

 

Still not sure this is bug worthy, full backs score goals but this seems quite often & they're carbon copies 

& on another note, has anyone ever seen a penalty that's not hit along the ground?

I have been mentioning the penalty thing for a long time now, but the only response I got was from a moderator telling me that he disagrees basically. I noticed it immediately after my first few youtube videos, but it must be one of those small things that SI doesn't see as priority. Sometimes those small things just stay there through the final patch of the game and become very annoying. 

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1 hour ago, Mitja said:

¸World-class finish. But look at Tottenham right back who is he marking there? (better if you post in 2d or some other camera for spoting player positioning)

Defending/marking is really awful in this version.  Most of the time defenders are positioned based on the formation/shape only, and not so much depending on who they are supposed to cover. They just pack the middle and sit there. They ignore the players coming down the wing, until they receive the ball. The cross comes in, and defenders won't make a move towards the eventual receiver, until he receives the ball. I don't see much in terms of anticipation/being proactive.

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Hi sorry to ask but i got fm 20 yesterday on steam, did the update is already done in the game when i got the product from steam or do i need to update it anyway? And where can i see if i have fm 20.2 now? Thanks for the help.

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1 minute ago, f.zaarour said:

Hi sorry to ask but i got fm 20 yesterday on steam, did the update is already done in the game when i got the product from steam or do i need to update it anyway? And where can i see if i have fm 20.2 now? Thanks for the help.

In start menu should be 20.2 in the left bottom corner.

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46 minutes ago, GPower88 said:

I think the game is less complex and is being dumbed down to be more accessible. 

You actually couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It's completely the opposite this year. 

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I don't get how all these companies gave so many points, the game got so many bugs, lag and other problems. Makes no sense that they all are happy with this game, sad to see this game going worse every year with engine lag and newgens problems.

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2 hours ago, MattStatto said:

Nice, how you getting on in the PL? I'm in the Qatar World Cup season (2022/23) and we're top of the league after 19 games, making a very unlikely push for the title after missing out on Europa Conference League football last season after going on a 5 match losing streak to end the season slipping to 8th. I'm actually gutted as I really wanted to play in and win the conference league before I outgrew it but sadly I think I'm progressed too quickly and I doubt I'll ever play in it now with Hull on this save.

Edit: The Everton game was the first one on the new patch. Not made much difference to my results thankfully, so all is well.

Screen Shot 2019-12-04 at 15.20.18.png

4th after 16 games, Arsenal (who I beat) are running away with the league on 40 points then 2nd have 31 points and we have 30pts.

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5 hours ago, Mitja said:

Really nice goal there! Even the best 1on1's are 50-50 chances at best.

I've seen a few actually rated slightly higher as to several xG models, but yes. 

I'M wondering whether the far bigger issue People are having isn't the conversion, but the amount (due Long balls over the top defending). As could be seen from Morata against Arsenal back then, the perception is hugely different when a Forward misses 3 a single match, as opposed to over time. Additionally, one on ones areN't THAT frequent in Football.

You can sort of "simulate" 1 vs 1 streaks by a virtual dice roll. http://www.roll-dice-online.com/
 
Great 1 on 1:  1 in 2 Chance (Forward clear on Goal, close range, no Defender nearby, reasonable angle). Pick a 2-dided dice. 1 dice to roll. 99 rolls. Every 2 rolled is a miss/save, every 1 rolled a Goal. The biggest streak I got on the first attempt was 8 attempts without a goal. Ouch. Unlucky!!!1 

Average 1 on 1: 1 in 3 Chance. Pick a 3-sided dice, 1 dice to roll, 99 rolls. Every 1 rolled is a Goal. The biggest streak I got on the first attempt was 7 attempts without scoring.

Reasonably difficult 1 on 1: 1 in 4 Chance. 
Pick a  4-sided dice, 1 dice to roll, 99 rolls. Every 1 rolled is a Goal. The biggest streak I got on the first attempt was 13 attempts without scoring.

Difficult 1 on 1: 1 in 5 Chance (which I personally realistically Think those from tight angles to fall into). 
Pick a  5-sided dice, 1 dice to roll, 99 rolls. Every 1 rolled is a Goal. The biggest streak I got on the first attempt was 15  attempts without scoring.


All of the above would fall into what would be considered a "big chance", btw. Not suggesting that FM is as random as a dice roll. However, realistically, the Chance should matter far more than the Player who has it, and "off-Setting" the Chance of conveting a Chance may only go this far. The main Point of demonstrating the above is that it may be of vital importance to tune the frequency down, or Players of this even with better types (and realistic conversion ratios) may suffer semi-regularly heart attacks. :D Over weeks of Play, they may not even notice much.

Edited by Svenc
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16 minutes ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

I don't get how all these companies gave so many points, the game got so many bugs, lag and other problems. Makes no sense that they all are happy with this game, sad to see this game going worse every year with engine lag and newgens problems.

What 'newgens problem'?

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I don’t know if it is just a coincidence but when playing against big teams in EPL conceded a goal in extra time if the game is going by draw or my team leading by 1 goal. Here is the screenshots. There is 3 more games but couldn’t upload due to max file size.

9534502B-6548-438E-93DC-6B128D20EF8E.jpeg

F3623521-3225-4882-AEBC-0544742597D0.jpeg

115C34F8-B5FC-43C0-AE4F-7F861643B5C3.jpeg

Edited by srvngrc
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quick question about the game, maybe a silly one but does the game calculate distances in terms of travelling and its effect on the fitness of the players? So for example if im playing in Azerbaijan on a thursday and sunday i have a league game, does the travelling make any difference?

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2 minutes ago, srvngrc said:

I don’t know if it is just a coincidence but when playing against big teams in EPL conceded a goal in extra time if the game is going by draw or my team leading by 1 goal. 

 

Most likely they'll be going balls to wall to equalise 

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19 minutes ago, srvngrc said:

I don’t know if it is just a coincidence but when playing against big teams in EPL conceded a goal in extra time if the game is going by draw or my team leading by 1 goal. Here is the screenshots. There is 3 more games but couldn’t upload due to max file size.

9534502B-6548-438E-93DC-6B128D20EF8E.jpeg

F3623521-3225-4882-AEBC-0544742597D0.jpeg

115C34F8-B5FC-43C0-AE4F-7F861643B5C3.jpeg

That's not coincidence. It's the AI big dog switching to really aggressive tactics late-match as it wouldn#t accept the current scoreline against the match "Underdog" -- and doing it successfully in a sequence.  AI match Management is Always going to produce Patterns like that. Luckily, we can notice and use that to our Advantage, usually. 

Edited by Svenc
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1 hour ago, Sanel said:

I actually like some of the complaints. Seems that people why try to replicate gegenpress or are using a very attacking mentality are suffering the most in this ME version. 'Oh my plug and play downloaded gegenpress tactics aren't working anymore, my striker can't score and I concede a lot. Plz help'. To these kind of people: keep in mind that 3 FM's earlier a thing like gegenpress didn't even exist or was non-existent to replicate, so go ahead to the tactics forum and learn the basics. Make a balanced tactic that suits most teams and most match engines. 

I haven't played the updated version yet, but that's what I'm hoping for. In the beta (with my system at least) , even a pacy defensive line on the deepest setting was conceding several one on ones a match. 

If, in the current implementation, teams that play a very high line and press aggressively are getting hit more with balls over the top, but teams that play a low block are not, then I'll be a very happy chap. It's these sort of real world pro and con balancing acts that make coming up with the best tactics for a team, and for an individual match, such a challenge and such a joy when done right. 

Edited by DementedHammer
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4 minutes ago, DementedHammer said:

I haven't played the updated version yet, but that's what I'm hoping for. In the beta (with my system at least) , even a pacy defensive line on the deepest setting was conceding several one on ones a match. 

If, in the current implementation, teams that play a very high line and press aggressively are getting hit more with balls over the top, but teams that play a low block are not, then I'll be a very happy chap. 

There is way too many long balls over the defense, no doubt about it. I don't play gegenpress or a very high line and most of the chances I concede is long balls over my defense. 

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3 hours ago, srvngrc said:

Long balls over the defence is really a bit much. Even decent players send perfect long balls to 50-60m away.

 

This is my biggest issue.  World class passes over the top just don't happen like that in real life every single game multiple times.  The pass is spot on and the defender takes it over the shoulder at full sprint with a perfect touch.  It looks more like an american football pass at times with how pinpoint accurate it is and how cleanly it is "caught".  

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21 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Untitled.thumb.png.e5001358dd4452c5fd80dbf699dd572f.png

This is insane, patch of the left back. That back four at home against 19th Brighton :seagull: I'm sure an FM Guru will be getting them hattricks :D 

This just proves my point about how bad the defensive positioning has become with FM 19 and 20. What are those 4 defenders doing there all on top of the lone blue in the box, while they are completely ignoring opponents coming from the wing? Who is watching 7, 21 and 30??

Edited by bleventozturk
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7 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

This just proves my point about how bad the defensive positioning has become with FM 19 and 20. What are those 4 defenders doing there all on top of the lone blue in the box, while they are completely ignoring opponents coming from the wing? Who is watching 7, 21 and 30??

It's no. 30 who scores here, completely ignored in the box, back 4 10 yards apart :seagull:

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Anyone else noticed that playmaker roles in central midfield are seeing A LOT less of the ball post-patch whilst full-backs are seeing a huge amount of it and have (bizarrely) become a huge goal-threat? The pull-back for a late-arriving FB to smash one top-corner from the edge of the box has overtaken the set-pieces as my main source of goals. 

In general, creativity/chance creation has noticeably improved but in my pretty standard 4-3-3, most of these are being created by wide players and as a consequence, the average ratings of my creative midfielders has fallen off a cliff. Finishing remains dire; seems roll-of-the-dice as to whether my striker will score a hat-trick or miss a bucketful and as such, his ratings oscillate wildly between outstanding and utterly wretched. The game just has the feel of a lottery where my input is moot, tbh. Didn't enjoy the engine pre-patch and not sure we've moved forward in any meaningful way - it's just a constant cycle of imperfect 'solutions' creating equally frustrating problems in different areas of the engine.

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9 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

Anyone else noticed that playmaker roles in central midfield are seeing A LOT less of the ball post-patch whilst full-backs are seeing a huge amount of it and have (bizarrely) become a huge goal-threat? The pull-back for a late-arriving FB to smash one top-corner from the edge of the box has overtaken the set-pieces as my main source of goals. 

Yes, very much so

Simmed two months of the season

Luke Shaw, 5 in Long shots, 8 Finishing, 10 Flair, 4 in 12 Premier League games 

 

 

Edited by Johnny Ace
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23 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

It's no. 30 who scores here, completely ignored in the box, back 4 10 yards apart :seagull:

No surprise there. It would be either that, or those three players at the right wing (all of them marked by 1 guy only) doing some back and forth passing before one of them shoots from there at the end. So predictable, and boring. Again, I am at a loss how this is considered 'much improved defense' compared to the previous FM's.

Edited by bleventozturk
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32 minutes ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

The second nationalities are still not correct even after the update, i got max 1 or 2 every year, what is far to unrealistic

They're fine for me now. Might depend on your club/country though.

 20191204215724_1.thumb.jpg.e8255bde60474894459ad72d7f0e463e.jpg

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34 minuti fa, bleventozturk ha scritto:

This just proves my point about how bad the defensive positioning has become with FM 19 and 20. What are those 4 defenders doing there all on top of the lone blue in the box, while they are completely ignoring opponents coming from the wing? Who is watching 7, 21 and 30??

for once I have to defend the ME against undreasonable attacks :D 

If you aren't particularly concerned with opposition crossing ability or aerial threat in the box, it is perfectly feasable to instruct the team in their own defensive third to keep the winger passively covering the flank and allowing the whole back line to take narrower shape congesting the center and denying the space in the box. 

 

Santos_Sanpaoli.thumb.png.194eabf6705b1ce189cd3263f85e60ca.png

This is Santos of Sanpaoli covering the width with full-back (green rectangle) and protecting the inside pass into the half space with 4 midfielders (blue rectangle). The defensive midfielder (5) drops into the back line to cover the channel between the FB-CB. I am not judging if ME is doing it right or wrong, but it is certainly a feasable strategy. 

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17 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

No surprise there. It would be either that, or those three players at the right wing (all of them marked by 1 guy only) doing some back and forth passing before one of them shoots from there at the end. So predictable, and boring. Again, I am at a loss how this is considered 'much improved defense' compared to the previous FM's.

It's just horribly negative, naïve & under 5's level. This is a Premier League team at home to 19th on the table  

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10 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

for once I have to defend the ME against undreasonable attacks :D 

If you aren't particularly concerned with opposition crossing ability or aerial threat in the box, it is perfectly feasable to instruct the team in their own defensive third to keep the winger passively covering the flank and allowing the whole back line to take narrower shape congesting the center and denying the space in the box. 

 

Santos_Sanpaoli.thumb.png.194eabf6705b1ce189cd3263f85e60ca.png

This is Santos of Sanpaoli covering the width with full-back (green rectangle) and protecting the inside pass into the half space with 4 midfielders (blue rectangle). The defensive midfielder (5) drops into the back line to cover the channel between the FB-CB. I am not judging if ME is doing it right or wrong, but it is certainly a feasable strategy. 

This picture is not close to what is happening in the above post though.
 

1) First of all, the attacking team (black) has three players close to the ball, and white team have them covered with 4, not just 1.

2) Second, see how the entire defensive shape shifted towards the left side of the field, including the stoppers, which actually allows point number 1 above.

3) And third, number 4 is in a good enough distance from the left wingback to have a chance to close down if the ball is switched to the left side.

Edited by bleventozturk
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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

Man U at home to West Ham 

Untitled.thumb.png.f52e24e5cc6b257ebc00ca3f414e60e2.png

West Ham obviously haven't clocked on?

 

Another good example. 23 should be close to attacking 30, and defending 5 should be where 23 is.

The problem is, that this is not just one off bad positioning moment. It happens in every attack.

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3 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Another good example. 23 should be close to attacking 30, and defending 5 should be where 23 is.

The problem is, that this is not just one off bad positioning moment. It happens in every attack.

Nope they're not one off cases I've had to dig for, I just wanted to see how a top 3 team (in game) would defend against a mid table at home, took what 2 & half in game minutes to see it 

Untitled.thumb.png.48c7aa7f66e59cfbdcbba2723ff2c441.png

Edited by Johnny Ace
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11 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Another good example. 23 should be close to attacking 30, and defending 5 should be where 23 is.

The problem is, that this is not just one off bad positioning moment. It happens in every attack.

Not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Some managers want their defenders to stay central, some are happier for them to step out and deal with things in wide areas.

It's not as simple as certain players should be closer to others.

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