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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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On 02/12/2019 at 07:53, stevemc said:

I've raised an issue here, regarding a green cast appearing on the video advertising boards and ball.

Interesting to see if any other Mac users have had this same issue as it appears I might not be the only one?

 

This issue is still there even after the update :thdn:

Edited by stevemc

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I can confirm, my winger on attack, on an attacking team mentality is crossing the ball. I repeat, he is crossing the ball :D

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Back on my Bayern save, my striker nets a perfect hattrick & doubles his tally for the season :D

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Back on my Bayern save, my striker nets a perfect hattrick & doubles his tally for the season :D

Bayern are still trash for me, but Lewandowski did get more passes to him for my first attempt.

KtHkTLF.png

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1 minute ago, craiigman said:

Bayern are still trash for me, but Lewandowski did get more passes to him for my first attempt.

KtHkTLF.png

I just checked after the game & he only received 10 passes but had 59 touches. I've not touched this save for a few weeks so I'll have to check if that's picked up 

Untitled.thumb.png.ec3832f3f24f065071b3e7e82de7703a.png

 

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Downloaded update and after 7 minutes of my first game I'm really impressed :D

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Just got battered by my own reserves. Clearly the game sucks!! (note my tongue is firmly in cheek here).

Only played a couple of games. I'm noticing a lot more early passes towards my IF(A), which is nice, he actually feels like a goal threat in multiple phases of the game. I have no seen a single shot into the side netting. I missed a couple of 1v1s but the player who had the chances is, shall we say, not the best. And they were mainly from relatively wide so difficult chances. The update has essentially broken the pregame editor for me though (bug report filed). So far so good for the game though. 

Edit: Oh and the game seems to be running a lot smoother now. No more randomly lagging when clocking something. 

Edited by sporadicsmiles

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Ratings have been fixed :thup:

Excellent! That's good to hear, thanks. I'm not sure why this wasn't a bigger issue to more people. I'm super glad to hear they've addressed it.

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Thanks Si, my frame rate is now a solid 60fps and smooth during a match........... :D

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Ratings have been fixed :thup:

You mean the fullback ratings? 

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vor 24 Minuten schrieb Boss:

Thanks neil. How do I do this on a MacBook?

Not that difficult to find. :)

 

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30 minutes ago, Sterling said:

Thanks Si, my frame rate is now a solid 60fps and smooth during a match........... :D

Wish mine was, never goes above 30 during a 3D match. 

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3 hours ago, Bakiano said:

Is it me or strikers heading the ball over goal too many times?

Nope, I am seeing the same, the only header I've seen scored in 5 games, was on a corner, with the player hitting the ball basically on the line.

Aside from that, great improvements all around in the play, run ups, through balls. Still see some weird choices, especially switches of play (that at least are less frequent) and when close to the goal when they reach the backline, too much hesitation/passes to the keeper.

1vs1 are about the same, maybe worse than before, but in my opinion it has mostly to do with superman keepers that make guided/teleport saves that in the real world would be absolute miracles you could expect only from the the top keepers, and that I see happening on a regular basis, even from avarage ones.

So in short, good work as you are on the right track SI, I would suggest you look at headers towards goal (definitely something weird going on) and keepers. It might turn up as a very good ME if those are fixed.

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vor 30 Minuten schrieb GunmaN1905:

Everything plays great except for the fact that 1on1 chances are still absolutely useless.

Strikers do score and their movement is good.

Except for those situations when they're absolutely clear, go towards the goal with the ball for like 20m and then just bottle the chance. Not fun, not fun at all.

 

I have seen that in my save. Watch goal highlights from other matches.

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2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

I have seen that in my save. Watch goal highlights from other matches.

Will do.

To put things into perspective, it's pretty much the same thing as with the last version.
Imo, when a striker receives the ball at around 25-30m and breaks completely free, it should be a goal 8 out of 10 times (if we're talking about EPL level strikers with at least 14-15 finishing and composure).
I'm not talking about first time shots inside the box or such.

Because if strikers aren't scoring a great majority of those chances when they have a clear path towards the goal, full control of the ball and can do whatever they want, then the game is still not balanced.
You can get away with very high defensive line because strikers don't convert.

Again, a small sample size of around 10 games, but I've still yet to see a striker round the keeper or chip it past him. Much like in the previous versions.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb GunmaN1905:

Will do.

To put things into perspective, it's pretty much the same thing as with the last version.
Imo, when a striker receives the ball at around 25-30m and breaks completely free, it should be a goal 8 out of 10 times (if we're talking about EPL level strikers with at least 14-15 finishing and composure).
I'm not talking about first time shots inside the box or such.

Because if strikers aren't scoring a great majority of those chances when they have a clear path towards the goal, full control of the ball and can do whatever they want, then the game is still not balanced.
You can get away with very high defensive line because strikers don't convert.

Again, a small sample size of around 10 games, but I've still yet to see a striker round the keeper or chip it past him. Much like in the previous versions.

I think the conversion rate in such occasions is more about 50% in reality, even for the good ones (not Messi). There are a lot of parameters which have an influence. Pitch, ball on foot, pressure, goal keeper and just luck.

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

I think the conversion rate in such occasions is more about 50% in reality, even for the good ones (not Messi). There are a lot of parameters which have an influence. Pitch, ball on foot, pressure, goal keeper and just luck.

Even that would be good, because so far it looks like it's 15-20% in this version.

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1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Imo, when a striker receives the ball at around 25-30m and breaks completely free, it should be a goal 8 out of 10 times (if we're talking about EPL level strikers with at least 14-15 finishing and composure).

I always felt that striker is more likely to miss good chance when he has too much time. Seen it many times IRL.

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2 hours ago, stevemc said:

This issue is still there even after the update :thdn:

To be fair, they did only get a copy of the save to start looking at yesterday. They probably had the patch concluded by yesterday evening, and so wouldn't have been able to review your issue, find the cause, fix it, and include it in the patch, all in the space of approx 24 hours.

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The beauty about Football is the emotional aspect of the game which all FM editions have surprisingly lacked.  When you play against the computer your team rarely manages to turn around results.  Once you go down 2-0 you can forget about coming back to a 2-2 or even more so, winning 3-2, 4-2...  Happens plenty of times against your team though. 

One of the best things in Football are last minute/additional time goals in close matches.  In all these years of FM I don't think my team has ever scored past the 90th minute.  Happened against me a few times though, especially when my team were the underdogs and were winning.  Funny how the developers have never been made aware this actually happens a lot in real football games because players start getting tired after the 70th minute and they're not as reactive as they were earlier in the game. 

Another thing are the lopsided amount of goal conversions per chances. Doesn't matter how good your forwards are, the computer seems to always have teams that can convert fewer chances into goals which also means your team rarely wins matches when it's the underdog while the team the computer manages does get this benefit.  FM20 has actually shown improvements compared to previous additions but the ratio is still lopsided in the computers favor.

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20 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

First, reports people are making are not trustworthy. Partially due to users not really knowing what actually is a good chance in football as Svenc says

 

That's an Understatement from my (Long-term experience) throughout the years. Mind you, wouldn't I have such an interest in this, and my main source of Information was Fifa, MOTD and Sportschau, I would be much the same. In German there is a term that basically translates to "100% Chance" -- it's roughly the equivalent of the "sitter". How weird that barely half of the "big chances" in the Bundesliga are scored, innit.

That said, the best Feedback givers throughout the years have taken real life research into account. Getting it all as "realisitc" as possible is crucial, as this is football's DNA, why it is such an ultra low scoring sports average, and why the tactics developed work the way they do. If for instance a release had attempts from range much easier to convet than Football, then that would making a Deep block defense much less worthwhile. And as to one on oneish: If the conversion of those would be too low, there would be less trade-off to consider with playing ultra-aggressive d-lines, etc.

Getting conversions realistic is of paramount importance, thus.

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31 minutes ago, KUBI said:

I think the conversion rate in such occasions is more about 50% in reality, even for the good ones (not Messi). There are a lot of parameters which have an influence. Pitch, ball on foot, pressure, goal keeper and just luck.

70-80% doesn'T make sense whatsoever, as that'D be basically Penalty conversion ratios. Those are completely static. On the pen:

- The Forward doesn't have to trap and Control the ball
- HE's not approaching goalmouth from any pace
- He's not under time pressure due to not being closed down
- The keeper isn't allowed to come off his line to make the target far smaller

All the vice versa applies from any open Play Situation in General. There are few Scenarios in a match of Football where the Chance of conversion would be considered significantly above 50%ish, tap-ins into actually open nets and extremely close range finishes being amonst them.

All this can't be simply based on opinion and gut Feeling and YouTube compilations, also when developing the game. 

As of your 50% percent, this was basically the conversion pre-patch as to my "forced" one on ones that see the Forwards in loads of space approaching the Goal (from decent angle, and on average with no much defender nearby). In Terms of xG- for instance, one on ones tend to be rated between ~0.2 and ~0.5, depending on which. That's huge variance. So may be worthwile checking which ones are unrealistic, and which aren't.

Edited by Svenc

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8 minutes ago, Svenc said:

70-80% doesn'T make sense whatsoever, as that'D be basically Penalty conversion ratios. Those are completely static. On the pen:

- The Forward doesn't have to trap and Control the ball
- HE's not approaching goalmouth from any pace
- He's not under time pressure due to not being closed down
- The keeper isn't allowed to come off his line to make the target far smaller

All the vice versa applies from any open Play Situation in General. There are few Scenarios in a match of Football where the Chance of conversion would be considered significantly above 50%ish, tap-ins into actually open nets and extremely close range finishes being amonst them.

All this can't be simply based on opinion and gut Feeling and YouTube compilations, also when developing the game. 

And his complaint that a striker of PL quality should finish such chances is negated by the fact that there's also a PL quality goalkeeper on the other side. I don't even think there's a 50% conversion chance in one on one scenarios irl, might not even be one in three. 

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I did my usual test and watched highlights of about 10 matches, and watched 100 goals in various AI vs. AI matches.

This looks very much like the FM19 ME right now, so it is better than the FM 20 release version, but it pretty much means one whole year of development time and no progress.

Majority of goals from set pieces, long shots, crosses, cutbacks, long balls over the defense. What is missing? Short or medium range through balls... still...

During the highlights I paid attention to through balls, and although the striker movement is better than what it was in FM 19, the players are just refusing to attempt those through balls when the opportunity is there. Instead, they either play it wide, take a long shot, or try to dribble through the defenders themselves. I just don't understand why SI is refusing to address this. Maybe when they tweak the ME to fix this it leads to unrealistic score lines? I am extremely curious about this and would love to hear it from SI.

 

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5 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

And his complaint that a striker of PL quality should finish such chances is negated by the fact that there's also a PL quality goalkeeper on the other side. I don't even think there's a 50% conversion chance in one on one scenarios irl, might not even be one in three. 

Average it's considered 1 in 3, and individually as said varies between 1 in 4-5 to 1 in 2. That sounds low, but then it's thrice as good as the average Football Chance. 1 in 5 chances are already considered as big chances. The Thing About one on ones is that they're great chances (and dramatic situations due to the duel) -- however they're not open Goals. Whether too often missed, or too often converted, getting this all roughly spot on is imo very important, also as to other Chance types.

Edited by Svenc

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Played around 10 games now, huge improvements overall, but long pass seems getting back to a little too overpowered 

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Does anyone else have an issue with their mouse when it comes to clicking and dragging?
Here the game seems to think that i've let go of the button while i'm still holding the left mouse button down.
Been like that since Beta and it happens only with FM.

Just want to double-check in case it could be the mouse itself.

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Ran a season through in holiday mode to watch back goals from my own and AI teams. The sheer number of one-on-ones being generated from balls over the top is a big cause for concern. I'm talking about the Premier League here, which consists of backlines made up of international class defenders. Balls over the top are meat and drink to their real life counterparts. I'm not even playing a particularly high line, and have been repeatedly exposed in nearly every match I've watched back from the analysis tool. My best guess is that 1v1 conversion rates are sitting at around 10%. There is no way on earth they could be converted at the expected 30% rate, as games would finish 6-4.

Defender reactions to long balls are a big issue, as is goal variety. I'm just not enjoying spectating matches. I'll dig into another long-term save attempt, and will happily take advice in the tactics forum; but nothing is working to resemble to kind of football I want my team to play, regardless of personnel.

Edited by rdbayly

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1 minute ago, Razor940 said:

Clearly there is a problem with 1vs1, still. The conversion continues to be exactly the same and the devs confirmed weeks ago that they were a problem, so we should see more of them scored, but they just go right to the keeper.

For me its the opposite, i saw a lot of 1vs1 scored actually

 

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11 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Ran a season through in holiday mode to watch back goals from my own and AI teams. The sheer number of one-on-ones being generated from balls over the top is a big cause for concern. I'm talking about the Premier League here, which consists of backlines made up of international class defenders. Balls over the top are meat and drink to their real life counterparts. I'm not even playing a particularly high line, and have been repeatedly exposed in nearly every match I've watched back from the analysis tool. My best guess is that 1v1 conversion rates are sitting at around 10%. There is no way on earth they could be converted at the expected 30% rate, as games would finish 6-4.

They shouldn't be all equal, and I had demonstrated before the patch that some pre-patch are converted as high as 50%ish (Forwards in space, decent angle, no Defender immediately nearby Closing down). However, assuming the 1 in 3 average, there'd need to be alot of such situations in there for there to be consistently 6-4 scorelines. We're probably talking an average of probably 15-20 per match. :D

Edited by Svenc

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb Razor940:

Clearly there is a problem with 1vs1, still. The conversion continues to be exactly the same and the devs confirmed weeks ago that they were a problem, so we should see more of them scored, but they just go right to the keeper.

I just suggest to watch other matches goals. There are a lot of 1 on 1 conversions now. 

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I'm getting crash dumps when trying to create new tactic. Happens on two saves (one is second season and one is just couple of days after starting new game). Both saves are created on previous patch so I'll try to create a new game on 20.2 and see what happens :/

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Post-patch, my striker, the infallible Luuk De Jong, has scored 8 and assisted 6 in his last 9 games. Impressive stuff, considering he scored 11 times over the entirety of a season pre-patch. 

I still need to play more games to draw more definite conclusions, but the most notable thing so far has been the dramatic increase in CCCs per game. My team went from an average of about 1 per game to suddenly hitting 3-5 per game. They even managed 8 against a weaker team. After eight games, my team are third in the division for Chances Created, with 31, but are still, crucially, behind Real Madrid (43) and Barcelona (41). More tellingly, my team is leading the way for shot conversion, with 13% of shots going in. I don't know how that tallies with reality but I think it's reflective of my tactics not overpowering the AI yet still seeing good success so far. 

As for how these chances are being generated: yes, a lot of them are coming from balls over the defence leading to a 1v1. My gut feeling is this type of chance has become too frequent in games, and that's only exacerbating the perceived problems with conversion rates. There could be all sorts of reasons for this: maybe the defenders aren't reacting quick enough to cover, maybe the opposition are being punished for being too attacking, or maybe the accuracy of the pass is too high - or a combination of all these factors. Balls over the top aren't a problem, per se, but I do see remarkably few of them send a striker into the channels or out wide, which would give defences a chance to recover, and instead see a lot of them putting the striker clean through on goal. Still, I need a bigger sample size before flagging this is an issue. 

Beside that, I'm actually content with the ME now. I've seen a variety of goals. Off the top of my head: my right inside forward took on two players and placed one in the bottom corner; my left winger carried the ball up the pitch and played a through pass to my striker to convert - and I'm not lying, I assure you - a 1v1 chance; crosses being headed in by a striker or winger coming in at the back pot; corners; penalties; a lovely counter attack where my left winger played a though pass to the striker, who held up it and fed a late run from my right inside forward who then converted; and cut-backs to a late arriving central midfield. Funnily enough, I haven't seen many screamers yet. The opposition have scored some interesting goals against me, as well, so it's not all going my way.  

Outside of the ME, I'm happy to report the board are now being a lot more reasonable in their assessment of me, but I'm a little iffy on AI transfers. It's only been a couple of windows, but I'm seeing some questionable purchases and will be keeping an eye out to see if it's a consistent problem, or if me disabling first window activity has just made everyone temporarily nuts. I was able to bin off 11 players though, which was nice.

Edited by JEinchy

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1st impression after the update is good, wingers and wingbacks crossing normally and playing cut backs, 1v1 misses seems ok as I didn't see any at all during a few games, ratings seem a wee bit better, through balls looked good and the general team play was nice to watch. I played 4-2-3-1 positive gegenpress, still got a few games to play to get the tactic as I really want but not any PI's or TI's to start with but thanks for getting the ME back on track.

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Not at home at the moment, am at work, but was just wondering if anyone else was having any issue's trying to create tactics?

 

Earlier on this evening, after the patch had dropped, I tried to create a new tactic and it just kept deleting it. If I chose a pre-set tactic, ie Vertical Tika-Taka, it would keep it and I could alter it anyway I so chose. However, if I selected 'create your own' (or whatever the option is) I could then select a formation, but when I clicked on the tactic to try and edit the instructions etc it just cleared the slot.

 

Anyone else finding anything similar? 

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46 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan said:

nonsense, ive had countless comebacks, late tying goals, ET goals in various FM editions over the years. if you find yourself 0-2 behind then you arent going to win the game 3-2 with the same tactics you started the game with.

 

it absolutely happens if you can switch up tactics, make right subs etc. 

LOL, what a load of crap!  It never happens even when changing tactics or introducing new subs.  Down 2-0, if you score a goal, 99.999% of the times you can bet your bottom dollar the next score will be 3-1. 

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How about penalties?  I must have played about 50 games since uploading FM20 and have had at least 20 penalties against and only 1 in favor (in a friendly I won 8-0)!!  Haven't had one playing competition.

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I've barely played this game as I've just not been impressed at all with the ME.

Decided to play tonight for the first time in well over a week due to the new update. Instead of seeing cross shots, terrible striker movement and 1V1's missed, I'm seeing loads of shots, loads of long balls over the top and not a lot of possession football. Basically, the old problems have gone and new ones have been created.

If I could get a refund on this game, I would. It's just not fun to play at all. I feel like SI have lost sight of the fact that this game should be fun to play

and to top if off, this update has created a bug where my game doesn't remember that I play in windowed mode so I have to change it whenever I load the game. That's not unbelievably annoying at all.

Also it seems like pressing has been toned down so much it's broken and the best way to play is to play long balls over the top.

Edited by ajw10

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I'm seeing some cool through balls, some fairly good stuff from wingers and one or two good moments of movement from strikers.  Most excellently, there's no wide players poking the ball into the side netting from the byline.  Anecdotally, though, from watching every shot in two games (maybe 40, 45 shots total) there are a lot going over the bar.  Lots of ballooned headers and spooned shots.  Not hit hard, particularly, just hit way, way up high.  Joe Willock just had a header that went maybe 40 feet in the air and landed on top of the netting.  Goals have come from a header from a free kick, a volley from a cross and a long shot.  Doesn't feel much different than it did pre-patch in terms of finishing.

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2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

I've barely played this game as I've just not been impressed at all with the ME.

Decided to play tonight for the first time in well over a week due to the new update. Instead of seeing cross shots, terrible striker movement and 1V1's missed, I'm seeing loads of shots, loads of long balls over the top and not a lot of possession football. Basically, the old problems have gone and new ones have been created.

If I could get a refund on this game, I would. It's just not fun to play at all. I feel like SI have lost sight of the fact that this game should be fun to play

I suppose programming certain tactical or skill blunders by players isn't easy to rectify.  My main issue is with the program forcing lopsided results no matter what decisions you change or implement on a game which realistically is the crux of what the game is all about, i.e, a Football Manager making decisions that affect a game positively or negatively.  The computer shouldn't restrict this ability.  It seems that no matter what decisions you make, you're never able to comeback from a 2-0, 3-1 etc result or score a deciding goal in injury time and rarely do you win a game when you're the underdog.  Yet, it does happen the other way around.

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