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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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1 minute ago, Harrymcintyre said:

Strikers. Goals. No problem. 

C6E9721F-9DEE-425E-BA46-C03EA166EF35.jpeg

I'm not seeing issues with striker conversion rates; the difficulty this year lies in creating good chances on a regular basis. It's clear that some systems are very poor at getting the ball to forwards in dangerous positions. The ME feels like a puzzle box right now.  

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7 minutes ago, srvngrc said:

Top scorer Kane has only 15 goals in 24 apps. I think that’s not normal.

the rate is fine, the problem is it feels like the ME is trying to force lowering amount of goals by striker by making them misses many 1v1 chances

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7 minutes ago, srvngrc said:

Top scorer Kane has only 15 goals in 24 apps. I think that’s not normal.

Aubameyang, Salah and Mané were joint top goalscorers in the PL last season with 22 goals, two of them in 36 games, one in 38. Just to say that the above figures look very much in line with that.

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So I'm going to rain on you guys' forward parade even further. I actually just managed to get my forward involved in a game to a degree. He still had few touches on the ball, but it was more than the usual. So, now, the problem is scoring.

 

Capture.thumb.PNG.7f5dfe269c91bef77145e5c4bed4a816.PNG

So, all the number 9 attempts are Martial's shots as a complete forward. Three of them were counter attacking 1v1s which he was clean through. He scored 1. The other two chances were in front of the goal by that right post. One was saved, the other should have been scored, as it was a pass across and the goalkeeper was on the opposite side. The shot went ludicrously wide. Watching these chances constantly squandered is indeed frustrating, as this is excluding the lesser chances I created. These are top class players who have no ability to finish.

I think that 1v1s are not being considered in their entirety, and may never be. 1v1s are really down to a forward's composure and ability to remain calm as he takes his chance, depending on the location. Wide of the goal allows the goalkeeper to close down the angle, and make himself big. However, straight down the centre, or running into the centre, and the odds will always favour the forward, bar a complete lapse in concentration, which does happen. However, you would then get the likes of Kane, who score consistently from any opportunity around goal.  Then there's Aguero, who is probably one of the best at scoring in tense, high pressure situations. Now, Martial isn't the best at any of this, and is prone to missing, but when the best forwards on the game are in the same boat, there is a clear problem here.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Aubameyang, Salah and Mané were joint top goalscorers in the PL last season with 22 goals, two of them in 36 games, one in 38. Just to say that the above figures look very much in line with that.

Salah and Mane are wingers who cut in, and goals are shared amongst their front three, so they're not out and out strikers.

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Just now, MatthewS17 said:

Salah and Mane are wingers who cut in, and goals are shared amongst their front three, so they're not out and out strikers.

Exactly my point. That means that central forwards had even worse stats last year in the PL. :) 

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10 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Aubameyang, Salah and Mané were joint top goalscorers in the PL last season with 22 goals, two of them in 36 games, one in 38. Just to say that the above figures look very much in line with that.

That's not all that normal though, prior to that 32, 29, 25, 26, 31, 26 & 30 goals were needed to top the chart 

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Just now, Johnny Ace said:

That's not all that normal though, prior to that 32, 29, 25, 26, 31, 26 & 30 goals were needed to top the chart 

I do agree that the figures may be a bit on the low side but not as bad as some people make it out to be. That said, it's a very delicate balancing act as well.

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Just now, KlaaZ said:

Exactly my point. That means that central forwards had even worse stats last year in the PL. :) 

Well Kane was injured, and many considered him below par after the World Cup. Aubameyang in my opinion exceeded expectations playing for Arsenal. Vardy hit 18 in 34 for a lower side. Sergio Aguero also hit 21 in 33. So he missed games as well, that could have raised his tally. All of them bar Aubameyang played fewer games. The norm is the top teams having a 25 goal a season striker. That's been the general consensus for years now.

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1 minute ago, KlaaZ said:

I do agree that the figures may be a bit on the low side but not as bad as some people make it out to be. That said, it's a very delicate balancing act as well.

Oh yeah, it's massive balancing act, I don't envy SI at all but it could be swung a little  

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Just now, MatthewS17 said:

Well Kane was injured, and many considered him below par after the World Cup. Aubameyang in my opinion exceeded expectations playing for Arsenal. Vardy hit 18 in 34 for a lower side. Sergio Aguero also hit 21 in 33. So he missed games as well, that could have raised his tally. All of them bar Aubameyang played fewer games. The norm is the top teams having a 25 goal a season striker. That's been the general consensus for years now.

Well, if Kane keeps up in the screenshot posted, he will get to 25. :) Aubameyang has the same ratio actually, but has missed quite a few games from the looks of it. 

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Just now, Johnny Ace said:

Oh yeah, it's massive balancing act, I don't envy SI at all but it could be swung a little  

Personally, more feedback would incline me to be more empathetic. It's not difficult to have someone dish out info that they are working on the issue, and where they are in development. It's literally word of mouth relayed forward. Leaving an issue with people who have quite literally just bought the game doesn't feel like it's enough. Conglomerate gamer companies in the form of Naughty Dog or Rockstar are more than happy to do this, so why can't SI?

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Well i feel i've played enough of the game to give feedback now - and much like every FM  - great job im really enjoying the new additions, . The bottom line for me is that does the game make me feel immersed in my on little football universe and yes so far it does - so great job done again 

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am really enjoying the game for now, the me was some weird decisions from time to time but its still enjoyable, at this point with the overall features the game has i thinks its in a good stage, the only thing i miss is some specific traits and individual training options, for example:

traits: would be nice of u could add/teach a player to "track back", if the player has good bravery, stamina positioning or any stats that could make him a good at tracking back to defend to take the ball back or just to keep his position tight in defense while he was attacking forward, something like the opposite of " get forwards whenever possible", maybe we could add this to the skills a player could learn, maybe some more ideas could be added to this and expand the small pool of defensive traits, i know that maybe this could be done by player instruction with "mark tighter", but just like "get forwards whenever possible" can be used with the instruction "get further forward", i think a specific trait to trackback defending should be available to teach.

individual training: there is almost only ona specific training to defense, this year si added the option to training dribbing with ball control, and cross with crossing but what if i what my player to improve taclkings? .. i cant.

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21 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

Personally, more feedback would incline me to be more empathetic. It's not difficult to have someone dish out info that they are working on the issue, and where they are in development. It's literally word of mouth relayed forward. Leaving an issue with people who have quite literally just bought the game doesn't feel like it's enough. Conglomerate gamer companies in the form of Naughty Dog or Rockstar are more than happy to do this, so why can't SI?

They do state they are working on the issue. It gets buried by people having needless back and forth, or people deciding to have a pop at them.

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Lol I'm top of the Premier League now and getting absolutely torn apart by a team placed 24th in League One.  All my possession is gone and every other ball over the top their rubbish League One striker rounds my keeper to score. 5-1 loss.  This ME seems a lot more inconsistent than FM19.

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2 minutes ago, Rakosi said:

Lol I'm top of the Premier League now and getting absolutely torn apart by a team placed 24th in League One.  All my possession is gone and every other ball over the top their rubbish League One striker rounds my keeper to score. 5-1 loss.  This ME seems a lot more inconsistent than FM19.

That's nuts/ funny! :D

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1 minute ago, Rakosi said:

This is my test save so I'm save-scumming certain matches to see how the ME works, and this League One team has beaten me 4 times out of 4 so far.  I really don't understand.

Could well be tactical, could well be motivational

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1 minute ago, Rakosi said:

This is my test save so I'm save-scumming certain matches to see how the ME works, and this League One team has beaten me 4 times out of 4 so far.  I really don't understand.

If your top of the premier league team is "getting absolutely torn apart" by the team 24th in League One (4 out of 4 times) I'm afraid that has little to do with the ME.

2 minutes ago, Rakosi said:

I really don't understand.

Head to the Tactics forum, post your detailed system and someone may be able to offer some advice :thup:.

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It's a nice touch that disallowed offside goal replays are now shown in the 'data analyst' camera angle. Realistic as to what angle a manager would see a disallowed decision from during a game 👍🏻

Edited by TheInvisibleMan
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Just now, Johnny Ace said:

Could well be tactical, could well be motivational

Yeah, tactical I could understand.  But there should kinda be a limit to what tactics could do.  Their 12k valued striker is making my very expensive Champions League backline look like a bunch of kids.  It just doesn't feel right, y'know?  They play loads of nice one-two's and tbh their football in the ME looks way more attractive and exciting than when I played and beat Barcelona.  Their pressing never seems to fail.  I dribbled circles around some of the best premier league defenders and in this game my players seem to linger on the ball so long that the League One (soon to be League Two) defender just jogs over and nicks it off them.  6th time save scumming this match and I won 1-0 finally, after a couple of worldy saves from my GK.

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At first thank you SI for update Demo :thup: I almost buy FM20 contrary to the desire to skip this year and save a lot of time :D

This is funny because I investigate strikers statistics separately of this thread. In first impression looks like strikers are poor, but after I looked deeper its looks authentic :thup: give or take, some cases simply to explain in long distance. If we talk about AI teams.

Concerning own team, first time ever I use this horrible phrase - your tactic mate :lol: this ME is very good as sandbox (ME2021) as I can see. I don't feel the same control before where I can decide is AF will be a striker or assistant more, the same for DLF, F9 etc

I like this ME because I create a tactic, not a RPG based on ME rules

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45 minutes ago, Rakosi said:

Yeah, tactical I could understand.  But there should kinda be a limit to what tactics could do.  

I wholly agree with you. And if the game were set up differently, that were also the case. However, on FM sides can easily be lined up in a way that you would never see on a pitch of footie. Sometimes perhaps even unintentionally. Plus, if there's space to be exploited and be ripped apart due to such tactical choices, the AI does oft exploit such only by Chance. 

What I can guarantee you is the following: If you wanted to know what's going on, upload either the match or the save somewhere, and have somebody have a look. I can guarantee you the game will be won by someone very quickly.

Edited by Svenc
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1 hour ago, Pattric_b said:

Is there anyone who has a site that tracks players shots on target to goals ratio? I’d like to compare my players to real life. It seems low to me at the moment 

I'm sure @Svenc will, but this might do somewhere https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7811/Stages/17590/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020

If that's linked right, you can at least see shots per game 

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Finally had a great build up through the middle.... to have it ruined by a terrible decision.

I have started a thread in the bugs forum and uploaded pkm

 

Edited by Icy
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4 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Jordan Ayew finished joint top scorer with 18, same as Aguero who's tally was supplemented with 7 pens. Kane on 15 (4 pens), Abraham 10 (1 pen), Vardy 9 (4 pens)   

Playing as Liverpool, it's just rubbish seeing how bad Mane and Salah are when they get near goal. They get into good positions loads of times per game, then just look Sunday league.

I've bought CM/FM every year for over 20 years and always obsessively played it for a few months when it first came out, but today, working from home, I turned it off and went back to XCom 2.

The weaker-foot, tight-angle shots are painful.

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11 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Playing as Liverpool, it's just rubbish seeing how bad Mane and Salah are when they get near goal. They get into good positions loads of times per game, then just look Sunday league.

I've bought CM/FM every year for over 20 years and always obsessively played it for a few months when it first came out, but today, working from home, I turned it off and went back to XCom 2.

The weaker-foot, tight-angle shots are painful.

Being constructive about this, I’d say that for a few years now, the very good players never really play that well in the game.

Playing as Liverpool, Suarez, Mane, Salah never do anything remotely dangerous on the ball. In real life, when that player gets the ball, you’re excited. If they get the ball one on one with a defender in real life, you’re really excited as they normally skin them or stand them up and lay it off to a runner.

In the game, one on one with a defender, even a slow one, they just run straight into them more often than not. Again, it’s painful to watch as the game loses all immersion when you see a world class player look bang average.

If we draw Barca in the CL, I have absolutely zero fear that Messi is going to be a threat. He won’t beat a man, he won’t take players out of the game with a killer pass. We’re more likely to concede from a corner scored by a full back towering over one of my centre backs.

I’m not expecting the game to be able to replicate everything in real life, and I do normally love the game, but it feels empty winning 75% of all trophies but very rarely being excited by my star players.

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

I'm sure @Svenc will, but this might do somewhere https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7811/Stages/17590/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020

If that's linked right, you can at least see shots per game 

https://www.squawka.com should do it however, they seem in Progress to an update. Infogol has some too. https://www.infogol.net/en/player/lionel-messi/1529  Will be getting Right back to ya, I'm currently trying my "one on one" stress test I had conducted for FM19 for a conversion of slightly above 50%ish. However, the chances I'm going to unrealistically force upon Players (man marking FTW) :Dwill obviously be in loads of space as you can see, whilst your average one on one on FM still sees the Forward closed down and under more severe pressure. Usually, just two Players here would still manage to get behind the ball back in time.

TdsOLpx.png

The General seasonal SOT conversions for a Forward is typically 1 in 2-3, however, as aruged multiple times for Seasons now, I'd be cautious putting too much of a value on FM's SOT data. The SOT can pile up big time from the set piece, how much so depends on the tactics, naturally, as some make it easier for an Opposition to get a foot into the move, others not. Which typically is stuff that more often is saved than not (Headers under pressure, sometimes from Yards out etc.) Unfortunately, the keeper oft sees a bit of a Rating bump here, when imo he shouldn't (depends on the release).

Edited by Svenc
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27 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Being constructive about this, I’d say that for a few years now, the very good players never really play that well in the game.

Playing as Liverpool, Suarez, Mane, Salah never do anything remotely dangerous on the ball. In real life, when that player gets the ball, you’re excited. If they get the ball one on one with a defender in real life, you’re really excited as they normally skin them or stand them up and lay it off to a runner.

In the game, one on one with a defender, even a slow one, they just run straight into them more often than not. Again, it’s painful to watch as the game loses all immersion when you see a world class player look bang average.

If we draw Barca in the CL, I have absolutely zero fear that Messi is going to be a threat. He won’t beat a man, he won’t take players out of the game with a killer pass. We’re more likely to concede from a corner scored by a full back towering over one of my centre backs.

I’m not expecting the game to be able to replicate everything in real life, and I do normally love the game, but it feels empty winning 75% of all trophies but very rarely being excited by my star players.

I think this is just down to how FM actually processes matches. In fact a lot of the frustrations are. 

You have to remember the match is pre calculated before you get to the engine. All of the maths is done and, more often than not, it will favour the better team. It’s not the big players that will ‘win’ the match, it’s the accumulation of all the stats up against the other sides stats. 

The graphical ME will then try to give you pictures in terms of how this has happened. I’m not sure completely how it does this part but the calculations have already been done - you can change things my making subs where it will recalculate again but all you are seeing is some kind of representation of the output of the maths in the background.  
 

This is why I’m sceptical if certain stats are actually as effective as we think they are under the hood. Penalty taking, for example, looks like a very dubious stat and one not always clearly represented in the graphics engine imo. 

Edited by DP
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2 minutes ago, DP said:

I think this is just down to how FM actually processes matches. In fact a lot of the frustrations are. 

You have to remember the match is pre calculated before you get to the engine. All of the maths is done and, more often than not, it will favour the better team. It’s not the big players that will ‘win’ the match, it’s the accumulation of all the stats up against the other sides stats. 

The graphical ME will then try to give you pictures in terms of how this has happened. I’m not sure completely how it does this part but the calculations have already been done - you can change things my making subs where it will recalculate again but all you are seeing is some king of representation of the output of the maths in the background.  

Ah right, that makes sense.

...wait, what!?!

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On 20/11/2019 at 20:31, Brighton123 said:

Anyone notice any changes to the setting of season expectation in the 1st season? I'm playing as Brighton but can't change 'Avoid relegation'. I usually select mid-table or something for a bit of a transfer and wage boost, plus it keeps the pressure on. I'm only allowed to change cup expectations on the opening day... will I get opportunity to change the league expectations deeper into pre-season? 

Anyone able to confirm the above please?

Sorry @Simon Tipple - Assuming you've had a Brighton save on the go, has 1st season expectation setting changed so it can now be fixed by the Board with no option to change it?

Edit: I'm in the process of getting a new laptop as my current one is old and can't progress the game to find out for myself.

Edited by Brighton123
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12 minutes ago, DP said:

What part surprises you?

I thought it was more ‘live’, rather than ‘pre-recorded’.

If the results are already largely decided, based on the overall strengths of the two teams, then there’s even less reason to make the good players so bad. I thought they made those players artificially poor because the ME couldn’t cope with good players and Messi would score four goals a game.

If the result has largely been decided as say a 3 nil win, them come on, have some fun, do something exciting and have the good players do some magical things like skin a player, or Messi dink one over the keeper.

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51 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Being constructive about this, I’d say that for a few years now, the very good players never really play that well in the game.

Playing as Liverpool, Suarez, Mane, Salah never do anything remotely dangerous on the ball. In real life, when that player gets the ball, you’re excited. If they get the ball one on one with a defender in real life, you’re really excited as they normally skin them or stand them up and lay it off to a runner.

In the game, one on one with a defender, even a slow one, they just run straight into them more often than not. Again, it’s painful to watch as the game loses all immersion when you see a world class player look bang average.

If we draw Barca in the CL, I have absolutely zero fear that Messi is going to be a threat. He won’t beat a man, he won’t take players out of the game with a killer pass. We’re more likely to concede from a corner scored by a full back towering over one of my centre backs.

I’m not expecting the game to be able to replicate everything in real life, and I do normally love the game, but it feels empty winning 75% of all trophies but very rarely being excited by my star players.

They ram home how realism comes before everything in these games well if that is the case Salah, Ronaldo, Messi should strike fear in to your hearts by doing something special in games, I played Juventus in the CL I barely knew Ronaldo was on the friggin pitch!

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My Laval side just got drawn against a Tahitian club in the 8th Round of the French Cup, which I reckon is about as far as it's possible to travel for a domestic football game, anywhere in the world. So I'm happy with the game.

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28 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Ah right, that makes sense.

...wait, what!?!

It's inacurate. How much individual skill can thrive depends on the balance of the ME. On FM14ish I'd set up Real Madrid in a way that they could barely Combine into the box, just for fun. Every other time I was still saved by a Kroos thunder strike from Yards out. Additionally, on FM15ish Dribblers were gifted this much space, the top ones would average up to like a dozen+ runs per game (naturally unrelaistic). Their frequent dribbles would open defenses oft alone. However, due to that unrealism, the guys sticked out at least as much as in an arcade match of Fifa / PES -- and good luck fully containing the two footed ones such as Hazards on that one. :D So this is a balancing act, and that act is down to SI. Nothing to do with anything else, really.

Edited by Svenc
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hace 29 minutos, DP dijo:

I think this is just down to how FM actually processes matches. In fact a lot of the frustrations are. 

You have to remember the match is pre calculated before you get to the engine. All of the maths is done and, more often than not, it will favour the better team. It’s not the big players that will ‘win’ the match, it’s the accumulation of all the stats up against the other sides stats. 

The graphical ME will then try to give you pictures in terms of how this has happened. I’m not sure completely how it does this part but the calculations have already been done - you can change things my making subs where it will recalculate again but all you are seeing is some kind of representation of the output of the maths in the background.  
 

This is why I’m sceptical if certain stats are actually as effective as we think they are under the hood. Penalty taking, for example, looks like a very dubious stat and one not always clearly represented in the graphics engine imo. 

That is not true and has been denied a lot of times by SI.

The games are pre-played but not just using general numbers but play by play, then the ME displays these plays. If you do any change in tactics, players etc, then the match is again calculated buy play by play again.

Only the other leagues where you are not playing are calculated more based in the teams reputations etc.

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I'm happy with the game so far although I've only amassed 2-3 hours and 45 mins of that was frustratingly trying to add tier 7 leagues below conference north/south. It was only meant to be a case of making the league level active and setting the number of promotions and playoff places only to find I then couldnt change how many teams get relegated from conference north/south.. is this a known issue??

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb JR866Gunner:

I'm happy with the game so far although I've only amassed 2-3 hours and 45 mins of that was frustratingly trying to add tier 7 leagues below conference north/south. It was only meant to be a case of making the league level active and setting the number of promotions and playoff places only to find I then couldnt change how many teams get relegated from conference north/south.. is this a known issue??

You need to use the advanced rules for that.

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