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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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Why is the area to the left of Maguire and right of Tuanzebe being listed as areas of minor issues? Surely this isn't right. It's only prevalent when I select a Defensive tactic template. If I choose Control Possession or Tiki-Taka, etc. it's not there. And it effects my matches. Was not there before the full release else I would have noticed. And a tactic that was highly effective away, before release, now doesn't even create three chances a game, and gets done 3-0 by CSKA Moscow? 

 

Just seems the two go hand in hand. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.c5d9b34abff64f75f7d321805889524b.PNG

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I had to start a new save after the hotfix as my entire Dulwich Hamlet side had 1 determination (well, most of them) but otherwise I've found more positives than negatives.

The match engine is significantly better. For one example, my veteran left winger crossed with a rabona to my average height striker who nodded it away comfortably for my League 2 Swindon side. I don't think I've ever seen this before, let alone at that level. The UI is improved, the game generally feels more immersive than ever before and despite my concerns, it runs absolutely fine on my extremely average PC both in matches and generally processing between matches. Kudos to SI for the speed at which they delivered the hotfix for the determination bug but also for fixing issues from the beta.

I'm noticing weird penalty decisions but not at the same rate as others - perhaps one every three or four games so far - but each time it has certainly looked like the player won the ball. Scoring a fair share of 1 on 1 attempts, at least for L2 level.

The only problems I'm having, which are likely due to squad or tactic issues, is an awful level of decision making by my team and despite having tall, mobile central defenders, they are consistently standing and watching long passes sail over their heads as an opposition forward runs past with ease. I've noticed this in both my saves, despite my tinkering with tactics, players, adjusting defensive line, using offside trap or not, etc... Anyone else had this? I'm thinking part of it is down to lack of familiarity with tactics and low team cohesion, but it's infuriating to sit and watch my 5* rated defenders pick their noses and contemplate their post match dinner instead of, y'know, heading a football.

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36 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

Why is the area to the left of Maguire and right of Tuanzebe being listed as areas of minor issues? Surely this isn't right. It's only prevalent when I select a Defensive tactic template. If I choose Control Possession or Tiki-Taka, etc. it's not there. And it effects my matches. Was not there before the full release else I would have noticed. And a tactic that was highly effective away, before release, now doesn't even create three chances a game, and gets done 3-0 by CSKA Moscow? 

 

Just seems the two go hand in hand. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.c5d9b34abff64f75f7d321805889524b.PNG

I imagine it's because the two full backs are set as wing backs so are sitting higher up the park, meaning the CBs are alone in that area of the park.

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I imagine it's because the two full backs are set as wing backs so are sitting higher up the park, meaning the CBs are alone in that area of the park.

That would be a fair point, except that it's only prevalent in defensive formations. On my other two tactics it's not there at all. On top of that, I was playing around to see if I could get rid of it, switched to a 3 at the back, and it only showed up on one side. 

Plus I did change around the full back roles, and it remained. In match, it seems to result in the centre backs, being a little non-existant, or completely out of position. There are several gaps that shouldn't be there. 

 

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RDF Tactics seems to be arguing shots on target. Would be interesting what his tactics Looks like. It may be suspect to just the Kind of Thing I've argued this morning. If he's at the Modus Operandi of many providing tactical Downloads just like his, he would squeeze the space going Forward, which would make it too easy for AI to get a foot into Play, and thus ramp up far too many (easily) saved shots on target from the set piece. The simple data FM offers would imply he were dominating, when he is de facto struggling to break sides down. At least up to now, I've never seeen a huge amount of shots on target and Little Goals without set piece attempts inflating those numbers, in particular not over the mid- to longer term. That said, the game allows a lot of stuff, a lot of which has very Little to do with how Football is actually being played 24/7... with which SI shoot themselves in the foot with imo. It MUST be the tactical set-up. And be it simply a bug caused by it.

If fielded as a central Forward, that's a terribly conversion all around. Lewandowski for instance last term converted every 6.6h shot into a Goal, in a Season xG suggests he were underforming. That 1 Goal roughly every 17th shot for Auba in-game. Even Ronaldo didn't torment Zidane for a fully Season like that (100+ shots for 4 goals in La Liga 2017 until January -- and FM has never simulated actual scoring streaks anyway, for obvious reasons). :D
 

Edited by Svenc
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4 horas atrás, WojciechZed disse:

Negatives (there are more of these)
- Sound is completely out of sync. No cheering when a goal goes in, but then on the reply, loud cheering. Huh?

I had literally the same problem in FM19, i thought it was only me because i never saw anyone else complaining.

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Anyone having an issue trying change the Scouting Packages in the players search section?

Whenever I click to select a new option it isn't reading my selection,  instead it's trying to alter a search function in the background..

I have tried with all 3 base skins. 

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Set pieces in tactics can be improved

we need to be able to set a standard shape such as three at the back, 2 outside the box, the rest in the box

however, if a person from the back 3 takes a corner...  it becomes 2 at the back and therefore disrupts the shape, and we have to manually change it to 3 again

 

image.thumb.png.aa84e01c9b04e54c0f67c9fc3a53f2d4.png

Edited by kingking
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1 hour ago, MatthewS17 said:

That would be a fair point, except that it's only prevalent in defensive formations. On my other two tactics it's not there at all. On top of that, I was playing around to see if I could get rid of it, switched to a 3 at the back, and it only showed up on one side. 

Plus I did change around the full back roles, and it remained. In match, it seems to result in the centre backs, being a little non-existant, or completely out of position. There are several gaps that shouldn't be there. 

 

I think that first sentence is fairly reasonable cause you're on the attack (positive =above) so it's not exactly a high influence, a medium one seems "okay". Full back to defend? wingback to defend? Have you tried telling maguire/tuan/lindelof to stay wider in PI's? maybe test that in a game, are you also defending wide or narrow? I saw it too yesterday and maguire got caught out alot from long balls so i've got him on cover- doesn't suit to reality but has done a job so far. 

Winger on top right felt a bit off too, even on support with the PI get forward. You expect your winger to always hit the byline with either or attack or PI get forward/even the trait or in that top right area. What about your formation, narrow or wide? i'd expect fairly wide/wider considering the formation. 

@herne79 @Seb Wassell Any ideas why that's a thing- refer to the scrn shot from MathewS17

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2 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:

Why is the area to the left of Maguire and right of Tuanzebe being listed as areas of minor issues? Surely this isn't right. It's only prevalent when I select a Defensive tactic template. If I choose Control Possession or Tiki-Taka, etc. it's not there. And it effects my matches. Was not there before the full release else I would have noticed. And a tactic that was highly effective away, before release, now doesn't even create three chances a game, and gets done 3-0 by CSKA Moscow? 

 

Just seems the two go hand in hand. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.c5d9b34abff64f75f7d321805889524b.PNG

 

4 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

What thing is that exactly sorry?

Is there a reason to why the Red square is to the left of maguire and right to tuanzebe?

Direct from me: RW is red too near the far corner?

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9 minutes ago, BigV said:

I think that first sentence is fairly reasonable cause you're on the attack (positive =above) so it's not exactly a high influence, a medium one seems "okay". Full back to defend? wingback to defend? Have you tried telling maguire/tuan/lindelof to stay wider in PI's? maybe test that in a game, are you also defending wide or narrow? I saw it too yesterday and maguire got caught out alot from long balls so i've got him on cover- doesn't suit to reality but has done a job so far. 

Winger on top right felt a bit off too, even on support with the PI get forward. You expect your winger to always hit the byline with either or attack or PI get forward/even the trait or in that top right area. What about your formation, narrow or wide? i'd expect fairly wide/wider considering the formation. 

@herne79 @Seb Wassell Any ideas why that's a thing- refer to the scrn shot from MathewS17

The reason why on Defensive mentality he gets a message of minor issue between CDs and fullbacks but not on higher mentalities or why he's not getting many chances?  If the former, no idea as I never pay any attention to those messages at all as for me they are meaningless as they lack context.  However it seems odd he gets the message only on Defensive mentality so possibly some sort of UI glitch.  If the latter then no idea without seeing the complete tactical system, but possibly related to a lack of penetration when using the Defensive mentality.

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2 minutes ago, BigV said:

 

Is there a reason to why the Red square is to the left of maguire and right to tuanzebe?

Direct from me: RW is red too near the far corner?

So. To add to this. I'm feeling a bug. I reloaded my backup save that's at the start of the season, created the tactic, and it wasn't there(Verbatim). Then added another tactic in another slot and it appeared in the centre back roles for that one. 

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38 minutes ago, darthlemon said:

Disappointed with this year's match engine.

I appreciate that a lot of hard work will have gone into trying to improve it, but this year feels like a direct continuation of last year's version, which wasn't particularly enjoyable or satisfying to play with.

The vast majority of the goals I see (scored and conceded) are long range shots or set pieces (or often a combination of the two). My first season ended with my centre mid (Klich) being far and away my top goalscorer. 95% of the good chances that are created either get blasted at the keeper or blasted into the side netting from an absolutely impossible angle.

The game itself is fun and addictive to play, but toiling through matches with this engine is hard work and takes away from the game. 

I fell away from playing the game after last year's winter update as it became apparent that the match engine would suffer for the rest of FM19 - the hope was that FM20 would be able to break free of these issues. 

So I'm not really sure what else to say - sorry if this comes across as negative or overly critical of people's work. Just want to enjoy the game we've all loved for a long time.

I hate to be that guy, but here's goal types, locations and assist locations from my past 50 games. 52/68 goals scored from inside the box, only 11 from indirect free kicks and corners and quite a nice balance between through balls and crosses for the majority of assists. I think that's a very decent spread. So unless you can provide yours which show a very different statistic, I'd say your wrong or have a serieus case of perception bias. :)

20191120175509_1.jpg

20191120175435_1.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

ME klaxon - @CJ Ramson @Jack Joyce

So here's a little more detail.

Fluid.thumb.PNG.b2d3a48b96e61ab8b4cd1ab9d8ffeb58.PNG

This is the preset Fluid Counter Attack, with the Ass Man's quick pick. So some may be out of position. No influence or changes in anything from me. Areas still red.

 

Direct.thumb.PNG.33f7986a5cdbdadf7caea2079775b8b3.PNG

Here's the direct preset. Again. Quick Pick. Some things interesting here, is that Pogba's role is also red. Although that might be explained to me, as my interest is purely those Defensive roles.

Catenaccio.thumb.PNG.8b7a65d3cf7e03c7584c11d4bc8ba96c.PNG

And finally loaded up a back three catenaccio. And, again, those roles are red, among others it seems.

 

To be honest, I never really paid attention to this if it was minor. However, the issue is that it's affecting matches. I'm not sure why. But my defence seems lost and disorganised for much of the time, and crosses and passes in the box are being met unmarked.  I reloaded the same match about 12 times to make sure. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

So here's a little more detail.

Fluid.thumb.PNG.b2d3a48b96e61ab8b4cd1ab9d8ffeb58.PNG

This is the preset Fluid Counter Attack, with the Ass Man's quick pick. So some may be out of position. No influence or changes in anything from me. Areas still red.

 

Direct.thumb.PNG.33f7986a5cdbdadf7caea2079775b8b3.PNG

Here's the direct preset. Again. Quick Pick. Some things interesting here, is that Pogba's role is also red. Although that might be explained to me, as my interest is purely those Defensive roles.

Catenaccio.thumb.PNG.8b7a65d3cf7e03c7584c11d4bc8ba96c.PNG

And finally loaded up a back three catenaccio. And, again, those roles are red, among others it seems.

 

To be honest, I never really paid attention to this if it was minor. However, the issue is that it's affecting matches. I'm not sure why. But my defence seems lost and disorganised for much of the time, and crosses and passes in the box are being met unmarked.  I reloaded the same match about 12 times to make sure. 

 

 

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think those colours have any influence on your matches whatsoever.
I think it's like the green circles on player roles. They are just a guideline for you to see what a players attributes fits if you cannot see it for yourself.

I often play a winger on the WB position and his area is obviously red because he "can't play" that position. But as far as I know, it's just his decision stat that is taking a hit. In your example I don't think any stats are taking a hit.

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18 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

So here's a little more detail.

Fluid.thumb.PNG.b2d3a48b96e61ab8b4cd1ab9d8ffeb58.PNG

This is the preset Fluid Counter Attack, with the Ass Man's quick pick. So some may be out of position. No influence or changes in anything from me. Areas still red.

 

Direct.thumb.PNG.33f7986a5cdbdadf7caea2079775b8b3.PNG

Here's the direct preset. Again. Quick Pick. Some things interesting here, is that Pogba's role is also red. Although that might be explained to me, as my interest is purely those Defensive roles.

Catenaccio.thumb.PNG.8b7a65d3cf7e03c7584c11d4bc8ba96c.PNG

And finally loaded up a back three catenaccio. And, again, those roles are red, among others it seems.

 

To be honest, I never really paid attention to this if it was minor. However, the issue is that it's affecting matches. I'm not sure why. But my defence seems lost and disorganised for much of the time, and crosses and passes in the box are being met unmarked.  I reloaded the same match about 12 times to make sure. 

 

 

My guess is defend narrower with wing backs might be leaving small gaps, the centre backs are too close and there's a space in the channels.

Might be way off there. Probably just a ui glitch.

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1 hour ago, darthlemon said:

Disappointed with this year's match engine.

I appreciate that a lot of hard work will have gone into trying to improve it, but this year feels like a direct continuation of last year's version, which wasn't particularly enjoyable or satisfying to play with.

The vast majority of the goals I see (scored and conceded) are long range shots or set pieces (or often a combination of the two). My first season ended with my centre mid (Klich) being far and away my top goalscorer. 95% of the good chances that are created either get blasted at the keeper or blasted into the side netting from an absolutely impossible angle.

The game itself is fun and addictive to play, but toiling through matches with this engine is hard work and takes away from the game. 

I fell away from playing the game after last year's winter update as it became apparent that the match engine would suffer for the rest of FM19 - the hope was that FM20 would be able to break free of these issues. 

So I'm not really sure what else to say - sorry if this comes across as negative or overly critical of people's work. Just want to enjoy the game we've all loved for a long time.

Agreed.

To be fair I feel like Sigames have acknowledged these issues - its probably just a case of not being able to solve them without ruining the game balance so instead opting for an 'adequate' and stable code. For the majority that play on Key highlights, it's good enough. Only in Comprehensive do you see the repeated patterns of play that make it tedious and a little sterile. 

Hopefully there's work in the background and potentially a patch for Jan window that addresses central play, chance conversion, long-shots, penalties etc. Generally that tends to be the definitive version in previous years. 

Edited by dannyfc
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Started a save but in the first games have had so many penalties go against me, 1 in the first match and 2 or 3 in the 2nd, hopefully will be a fix for this soon, have done a lot of work on the game but may consider restarting it if necessary if that continues.

1 of the games actually finished 9-3. got a man sent off for 1 of the pens.

Edited by Ras
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Is there any reason why an AMR (or L) seemingly can't also play MR/L? For example, if you want to start a game with inverted wingers in the AM strata, but go more defensive for the final 15 minutes, should it be such a drastic change (bright green to red) in their role/position suitability? Seems it should be yellow/orange at worst.

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1 hour ago, autohoratio said:

I agree, the set piece tactic creator is really unintuitive. When you have multiple players with the same instruction (get back, man mark, etc), there's no way to control the left-to-right order as the game will automatically place them however it wants. When I have an attacking throw-in, my striker will STILL come short to the taker when instructed to attack the near post and there's an ML/MR instructed to come short instead. When defending throw-ins, there's no way to try to prevent the throw-in from being taken short, the players will just leave a massive gap and whether they try and close down the taker's target player is basically a dice roll.

Eloquently put. I feel like this has been the case with set pieces for years and years - obviously I wouldn't expect anything drastic to be done with FM20 now, but it would be great if this was looked at as a priority for next year.

Edited by rjferguson90
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34 minutes ago, Ras said:

Started a save but in the first games have had so many penalties go against me, 1 in the first match and 2 or 3 in the 2nd, hopefully will be a fix for this soon, have done a lot of work on the game but may consider restarting it if necessary if that continues.

1 of the games actually finished 9-3. got a man sent off for 1 of the pens.

Friendlies or competitive? I found I was awarded dozens in pre season but since starting the season proper it's much better.

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53 minutes ago, dannyfc said:

Agreed.

To be fair I feel like Sigames have acknowledged these issues - its probably just a case of not being able to solve them without ruining the game balance so instead opting for an 'adequate' and stable code. For the majority that play on Key highlights, it's good enough. Only in Comprehensive do you see the repeated patterns of play that make it tedious and a little sterile. 

Hopefully there's work in the background and potentially a patch for Jan window that addresses central play, chance conversion, long-shots, penalties etc. Generally that tends to be the definitive version in previous years. 

I've always said the game isn't truly ready to play (and for me... worth buying) until January. I'm not complaining, I've always felt this way and still don't follow my own advice. I just can't resist a shiny new version of Football Manager. 

I'm starting a new non league save tonight. I'll plough on and see how it goes. Plenty of previous versions of the game in my steam library to keep me occupied until January if necessary. 

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Reading the full game feedback thread and its alot of the same issues that has already been reported is once again brought up, which i find alittle bit odd.

You would Think that these issues are that serious that a Company wouldent want to release a game with thoose issues. Like a football game where the actual football on the pitch is poorly represented.

I get that the ME fixes isnt done overnight but it kind of defeats the purpuse to have these feedback threads at all for ME issues, because its not time enough to fix them anyway. So they just have to focus on the little things. Atleast it has been reported that the 1 on 1´s are much better so thats great and its a ME fix, then if its down to simply take away the opportunity´s or actually make them more realistic i dont know. Maybe we are just spoiled, i mean i was happy with FM 17 so that says alot :)

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Game pausing too much to skip a single day!!
Theres literally NOTHING going on, but still i have to press continue to go to 13h, then another continue to go to 15, and another time to go to 18 or 18:30, and another one to 19, only then it will skip a day.
Theres an option on preferences to "increase processing time to have less stops" or smth but it doesnt change a thing

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Most of my time in game so far has been spent wading through a bloated inbox of unimportant emails.

I needn't have bothered taking the week off from work!

 

Edited by rdbayly
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7 minutes ago, downloadkct said:

Game pausing too much to skip a single day!!
Theres literally NOTHING going on, but still i have to press continue to go to 13h, then another continue to go to 15, and another time to go to 18 or 18:30, and another one to 19, only then it will skip a day.
Theres an option on preferences to "increase processing time to have less stops" or smth but it doesnt change a thing

You sure this isn't just transfer deadline day?

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I've pumped about 25 hours into FM20 over the past couple of days & I'm really not feeling it. The ME just feels "off" to me & it's hard to nail down what the actual problem is. Negative AI? Lack of final third intelligence? I dunno, it just doesn't play out in a way I enjoy watching & it's difficult putting my finger on it. It's like, you put together a logical tactic & want to play in a certain way & you win off of set-pieces without a striker on the pitch scoring & barely getting any solid service, just doesn't do it for me

Time for a break 

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3 hours ago, darthlemon said:

Disappointed with this year's match engine.

I appreciate that a lot of hard work will have gone into trying to improve it, but this year feels like a direct continuation of last year's version, which wasn't particularly enjoyable or satisfying to play with.

The vast majority of the goals I see (scored and conceded) are long range shots or set pieces (or often a combination of the two). My first season ended with my centre mid (Klich) being far and away my top goalscorer. 95% of the good chances that are created either get blasted at the keeper or blasted into the side netting from an absolutely impossible angle.

The game itself is fun and addictive to play, but toiling through matches with this engine is hard work and takes away from the game. 

I fell away from playing the game after last year's winter update as it became apparent that the match engine would suffer for the rest of FM19 - the hope was that FM20 would be able to break free of these issues. 

So I'm not really sure what else to say - sorry if this comes across as negative or overly critical of people's work. Just want to enjoy the game we've all loved for a long time.

Keep playing FM17 like me bro the last decent ME.

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've pumped about 25 hours into FM20 over the past couple of days & I'm really not feeling it. The ME just feels "off" to me & it's hard to nail down what the actual problem is. Negative AI? Lack of final third intelligence? I dunno, it just doesn't play out in a way I enjoy watching & it's difficult putting my finger on it. It's like, you put together a logical tactic & want to play in a certain way & you win off of set-pieces without a striker on the pitch scoring & barely getting any solid service, just doesn't do it for me

Time for a break 

Agree 100% the play in match is now boring with strikers hardly scoring ever since the patch, I have had to stop playing as it's just not enjoyable anymore, really dull football irrespective of tactics choosen. I know the dev team are doing their best but I will not play for a longtime now until I know the ME has been changed.

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1 minute ago, Altair89 said:

Keep playing FM17 like me bro the last decent ME.

Ya know, I've just fired up FM15, within 5 minute's a striker's scored (against me :D)

I've got 16 & 17 to install but I need to find my DVD drive 

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I was seeing a ludicrous amount of penalties throughout pre-season and in the qualifiers for the champions league and europa league and they were mainly coming in 2's or 3's in games.

I've now played 3 game weeks and the amount of penalties across all my loaded leagues seem very normal. Just an observation 

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2 hours ago, monkeywool said:

My guess is defend narrower with wing backs might be leaving small gaps, the centre backs are too close and there's a space in the channels.

Might be way off there. Probably just a ui glitch.

These red / orange squares are showing you areas of the pitch that you will not dominate / the opposition may because your team formation is not set up to do this

Where you have pulled the AML and AMR to ML and MR  then the penetration of these areas by your players now bright red will be reduced as a result. 

Set your defense to 3 centrals DC and the areas your full backs WOULD HAVE covered, no longer will. These areas could then be exploited by the opposition wingers if they have any. If your 3 DCs are giants then you may be happy to let their wingers cross to their hearts content here as your DC's will treat the crosses like their bread and butter

That make sense?

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7 minutes ago, FMLegend1983 said:

Agree 100% the play in match is now boring with strikers hardly scoring ever since the patch, I have had to stop playing as it's just not enjoyable anymore, really dull football irrespective of tactics choosen. I know the dev team are doing their best but I will not play for a longtime now until I know the ME has been changed.

Just watching the forwards, it looks like they're the ones marking the centre backs half the time. I got hammered against Fiorentina earlier in the cup, they were playing 3 up front & they barely moved when they were in my box, they all scored off corners & crosses 

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I've played a season now and I'm really struggling to get into it with the match engine how it is. Watching a game, win, lose or draw is often an exercise in frustration and exasperation.

Outside of the match the game is great, love the development centre, great addition. But the match engine... missed one on ones, 30 yard screamers, shots from the byline, refusal to play through balls through the middle, strikers being static and not taking great chances.

Sorry, it is negative I know. I have a series of pkm's that illustrate this that I will upload at some point tomorrow.

Edited by Robioto
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